Can't seem to get mold hot enough

[Possum Lickaa]

I am trying to cast with a NOE 453-230 Large HP mold. I am still getting wrinkly boolits, even after preheating the mold on a hot-plate for 45 min. Of course the pins are keeping the mold from making good contact with the plate, so its taking a while for it to get hot.

Also, the boolits will not drop clean from this mold. They stick terribly to one side. Always the same side. Actually, one cavity drops ok, but the other just will not let go. this slows my pace, and further inhibits my getting/keeping the mold up to temp. I have smoked the cavities, but saw no difference. I really have to beat on the mold to get it to let loose, and I am worried I am going to damage it.

It lets go just fine when I use the flat-nose pin... so I am thinking it is binding from the torque being put on the boolit as the pin pulls the boolit away from the side of the mold.
Any Info?

[oger]

They can be tough to get to work. Make sure the pins and mold are clean and run you pot about as hot as it will go. My molds work fine if I keep their temp close to 450 deg and cast as fast as I can.

[Butchman205]

I like to run mine hot enough to get a tad of frosting (almost too hot), with pot cranked wide open. After I get a tad of frosting, I continue to cast boolits...while turning my pot down just a tad.

When the frosting is almost gone, I turn it back up a tad, while continuing to cast. Then it's a matter of keeping a concise rhythmic cast pace while watching for too much frosting or mould or lead getting too cold...which makes my boolits start to be grainy or not totally smooth. That's my process.

Since I cast outside under a covered porch (with the ceiling fan running), mould and lead temps differ but related to outside air temperatures.

Now to tie that all in a neat package...I like to run my mould and lead temps as high as possible.
I take temp readings with several thermometer apparati...but mainly focus on the end product.

All moulds have their temp "sweet spot".
And in my experience, hollow point moulds are more fickle than solid metplat moulds...but I'm always open to advice as well (never stop learning and experimenting).

-Butchman

[rondog]

I bought a steel electrical junction box, about 4"-5" square. I got the kind that's tack welded, with square corners, you don't want one with rounded corners that's all one piece. You'll also want the accessory cover for the box, the flat cover for sealing the box. This is the typical junction box for tying a bunch of wiring together, like up in the attic.

I then removed one of the tack welded sides of the box, real easy to do. Then put the cover on it. Now I had a steel box with one open side.

I put this on my hot plate, and I can put two 2-cavity molds in it. This acts like a little "oven" and keeps my molds nice and toasty. I can also stack 6-8 ingots on top of it to pre-heat them, so I don't have to put cold ingots into my casting furnace.

This works VERY well for me! I need to take some photos of the thing so I can show y'all what I'm talking about. Didn't cost much either, Home Depot and Lowes has 'em.

[Yodogsandman]

The higher the wattage on hot plates, the hotter they'll get. Get a solid "burner" top or use a spacer like a circular saw blade over coil type hot plates to even out the heat. A metal cover, to make an oven, will help to keep the heat on your mold.

[Teddy (punchie)]

I dislike Al. and Brass I hate . I had a .224 mold that I soldered and was a real dream to clean up.

You need to season the mold, almost like seasoning a iron skillet.

Have fun, they will work, keep trying.

[Forrest r]

The hotplate I use to pre-heat molds has a dial from 1 to 6. I set the dial to 5 1/4 and pre-heat the molds for 20 minutes.

Typically I run my pot with it set at 725* for 2/4/6/8/10-cavity molds. Molds with hp pins I run with the pot set at 750* to 775*.

I heat my molds so they are actually too hot, it takes 10 seconds+ for the sprue's to harden. I'll slowly let the mold cool while casting until the bullets are just frosting. From there it's as others have stated, find a pace that keeps bullets in that zone.

Typically I'll heat a mold with the mold sitting upright. If after 20 minutes of pre-heating I have trouble with the hp pins being too cold. Turn the mold over so that the sprue plate is sitting on the hp. The heat will rise up into the mold cavity and heat the point of the hp pin, you want the point of a hp pin hot.

good luck

[Loudy13]

I have the same mold and it gives me fits in the first few minutes of casting, it is hard to get them buggers off the pins when it isn't quite warm enough. I warm my mold on a steel plate on a propane burner and to combat the pin problem I covered it with a pie pan to keep some heat in. It helped a little, I found that if I goof off at all during those first pours the mold doesn't get hot enough fast enough. I just dump the bullets and sprues quickly to get it up to temp and then it works way better. I am almost out of lead at that point pretty sure I need a bigger pot or a standby of some melted lead to add to the pot.

I like Forrest r's idea I think I will try that with the mold upside down at the end of the pre-heat

[runfiverun]

experiment with your technique.
you know you need heat so that's a given.
but the way your opening the mold might have something to do with the boolits binding.
try turning it on it's side or upside down after opening the mold and popping the pins.

I have a couple of square cut lube groove molds that respond to flipping the mold over and popping the hinge pin as I open the mold halves.
this jostles everything free and gravity helps.
you could also give the boolits another 2-3 count to cool down a titch more.
sometimes going slow is going fast.
my 5 cavity HM-2 is that way if I work deliberately instead of quickly it just keeps on chugging along.

[RogerDat]

Have seen pictures of a coffee can with a notch cut in the top rim for the handles put on a hot plate upside down over the mold as an "oven" suppose any decent sized can that can cover the mold would work if you have one lying around. Maybe a large bean can even.

+1 on turn the mold over. Really made a difference for a couple of my molds when it was suggested to me by Duke in Florida. Tap on the hinge bolt of the handle not the mold itself. I use one of Dukes mold knockers and tap about like you would tap a pencil on a desk, fast but not hard, on upside down mold and went from giving longshoremen cussing lessons to just dropping bullets 90% of the time.

Also found running hotter, leaving longer after sprue cut to both let lead contract more from cooling and more heat from lead flow into mold did help. Figuring out the process did involve small changes over a period of many casts to get dialed in. I ladle cast so one other option I have for adding mold heat is every couple of casts I pour extra lead so it runs down the side of the mold, with emphasis on flowing around the area of the cavity from which the bullet is not dropping.

You have my sympathy. Was really frustrating to know I needed to go faster to keep the heat up while I was sitting there struggling with getting the bullet to drop and knowing the mold was getting cooler every second. Eventually it all worked out which was satisfying, so best of luck to you.

[Possum Lickaa]

Thanks for all the info guys! This new mold is a big step up from the Ranch Dogs ans SWCs I'm used to casting! I'll keep at it. My results do get better, sometimes marginally, with each attempt.

[LenH]

Possum, you may want to polish the pins. It helped with a HP mold I got from Al. I chucked the pins in a cordless drill and used some 1500 grit sand paper. It really helped
but the biggest problem as some have stated is that these molds need to be rocket hot and the melt needs to run a bit hotter.

[rondog]

My oven I mentioned above...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?313287-My-hotplate-quot-oven-quot-for-molds

[quail4jake]

Really like that junction box idea, I'm going to try it. I heat molds with the torch...not for everyone. There is a risk of uneven heating and warping a block etc. but with short strokes through the flame and a sense for the right time to cast and reheat it's worked for me for 40 years. I cast hollow base expanding balls up to cal. .69 and these require a hot hot mold and really hot lead, these are cast of pure lead which is more difficult than alloys and tend to stick in one block of the mold. If you put on loupes and look at the cavity edge you may see a tiny wire edge that can be honed out with 400 grit paper on a splinter of wood, I have done this on all of my Lyman musket ball molds and the boolits fall with no effort. NOE molds are precision and very high quality so it's hard to imagine finding that wire edge like a Lyman but it may be worth a look. Lastly if you ever get a chance to sit with an old timer who really casts with a passion and just watch...do it! I learned to cast musket balls from a 94 year old man who told stories of the Civil War veterans with whom he used to work as he poured lead, I was 13. He also taught me to trap. Good luck and keep the silver stream flowing!

[MT Gianni]

Take some of the ugly bullets. Mark a drywall screw with a marker to 1/3 the depth of the mold. Open the sprue plate and with the sprue plate open drive the screw in a bullet to depth marked. Put a little lube on the bullet, a light 3 in 1 oil or such. Put toothpaste on the pin to not exceed any going into the mold. Cut the screw off with 3/4" showing above the bullet and run it in a twist drill for 20-30 seconds then clean and replace toothpaste. If there was anything causing a hang up it should be gone. Flush with solvent and wipe the cavity well.

[quail4jake]

Great idea, don't ya wish they'd do that at the factory? Like most things, you buy the item brand new then rebuild it so it will work!

[MT Gianni]

Great idea, don't ya wish they'd do that at the factory? Like most things, you buy the item brand new then rebuild it so it will work!
95 % of NOE's work as designed you just sometimes have to tweek the rest.

[blixen]

I like to run mine hot enough to get a tad of frosting (almost too hot), with pot cranked wide open. After I get a tad of frosting, I continue to cast boolits...while turning my pot down just a tad.
All moulds have their temp "sweet spot". ...
And in my experience, hollow point moulds are more fickle than solid metplat moulds...but I'm always open to advice as well (never stop learning and experimenting).

-Butchman

excellent advice!

[rintinglen]

I have a similar NOE mold and I have the same problem until it gets HOT.

I overheat the mold so that the sprue takes at least 7 seconds to harden. I place mine sprue-plate down on the hot plate and let it heat on Medium until my pot is good and melted--normally about 25 minutes. I have the temp on my Lee cranked all the ways up at first. Once I get good boolits, I turn it down until I am getting slight surface frosting then I cast as fast as I can get the sprue to harden. DO NOT Stop to check or admire your work. Just keep going until you run out of lead or get tired.

[ammohead]

I used to run into the same type of problem till I stopped putting the sprues back in the pot. Put them off to the side in a pan of some kind till it is time to refill the pot. Keeps temps more consistent. You may already be doing this.

[Butchman205]

I used to run into the same type of problem till I stopped putting the sprues back in the pot. Put them off to the side in a pan of some kind till it is time to refill the pot. Keeps temps more consistent. You may already be doing this.

This is good advice.
Also, if the bullets start frosting a tad more than you prefer, you can add a few of the sprue chops to the pot to cool it off a tad.


-Butchman

[Boolit_Head]

I ran into a similar problem with a new 45 acp hollowpoint NOE mold. I had to increase the temp of the lead a bit as well. It helped get the mold up to temp and keep it there while the pins sort of broke in a bit.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Hollow pointed boolits (or minnie type skirt boolits) has less shrinkage as the pin/core keeps the boolit from shrinking and subsequently are more prone to stick in the mold.

When casting hollow base Brenneke slugs from a push-out mold, I found that too cold a mold would produce wrinkled slugs that dropped easily, whereas too hot a mold would cause the slugs to bind - sometimes to a point where the ejector pin would push right through the center of the slug. I had the best results when keeping the lead hot and the mold not-so-hot by dunking it in water every four or five casts.

[Dragonheart]

I have had good success with my NOE Brass Molds by polishing the pins to a mirror shine using white cake on a cloth buffing wheel. I also polish the pin retainers so they slide easily. I clean and wash my molds in acetone before starting to remove any contaminates from storage. Comments about getting the molds hot are right on because if it's not hot it just wont cast properly.

[69daytona]

I have never had any problems with my brass of aluminum HP molds, I set them in the melt for a bout 45 seconds to a minute and it brings the pins right up to temp and molds right along with it.
Have never had problems with the boolits dropping off. I always wipe them down with Kroil when done and cooled. Bottoms of molds look a little ugly but has nothing to do with how they cast.
it cleans off fairly easy if you want it off.

[longbow]

I pre-heat until the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke and that is slightly too hot but after a few casts the temperature settles in and them I keep a good steady cadence up. Don't stop to inspect each boolit or you will never keep the mould hot enough. Just take a quick look as they fall out of the mould onto a cloth then close the mould and cast again. After you have cast a couple of dozen then put the mould back on the hot plate and do a thorough inspection. if they aren't filled out put more heat on the melt and cast faster.

Butchman205 has it right. I like a bit of frosting too. Just a bit.

Watch you do not overheat your mould during pre-heat. If the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke that is about as hot as you want to go.

Longbow

[TXGunNut]

I heat cycle the moulds at least three times on a hot plate before I try to cast with them. Then I get them almost up to casting temp, pour and dump as soon as the sprue hardens. After the mould gets up to temp I'll slow down a bit. I also think a mould will generally cast better during the second and third sessions but every now and then they work great during the first session. I don't know if the mould needs to break in or if I just need the figure out the temps and cadence the new mould likes. I suspect it may be a bit of each. I usually record the temps and cadence a mould likes after a successful session, that way I don't have to try to figure it out again next time.