Anyone has experience with KNO3 + Aluminum powder [homemade Blackpowder substitute]?

[AJG]

Anyone knows if it works making homemade Blackpowder Substitute with KNO3(potassium nitrate) + Aluminum powder?

I failed with classic BP receipt and want to see if KNO3 + Aluminum powder mixed in ball mill will work nice and how smokeless it is for 9mm, 38 spl and 357 Magnum reloads.

[lavenatti]

This is a flash powder used for pyrotechnics. I think it would be far too dangerous to use as a propellant. It's several times more powerful than BP and the temperature of the burning aluminum would most likely damage the firearm if it didn't just blow it up.

I don't think I'd even try mixing it in a ball mill.

[w5pv]

I don't know but be safe above all.

[Travelor]

it's called Tannerite when made and sold commercially. Also it is illegal to transport when mixed per the ATF.

Bad thing to put in a confined space like a gun barrel.

[Boz330]

Go to the ML forum, there is a sticky there that will teach you all that you need to know to make good BP.

Bob

[farmerjim]

Tannerite is Ammonium Nitrate and aluminum powder, not Potassium nitrate.

[Steven Dzupin]

If it doesn't blow up,the Aluminum Oxide that forms will do a number on your barrel.Aluminum Oxide is a very aggressive abrasive.Best of luck and be safe. Regards,Steve

[NoZombies]

What you propose is a form of flash powder, and in no way appropriate for use in reloading or muzzle loading.

[Toymaker]

Farmerjim is correct. The difference being about 20 db in the explosion volume. I think Steven Dzupin almost has it right, but the aluminum oxide won't abrade the bore. It will weld itself to the bore, most heavily where the explosion occurred. In the unlikely event that the barrel DOES NOT erupt into multiple small high velocity fragments it will be useless anyway.

Go back to your process for making black powder, figure out where you went wrong and try again.

[kennyz]

Farmerjim is correct. The difference being about 20 db in the explosion volume. I think Steven Dzupin almost has it right, but the aluminum oxide won't abrade the bore. It will weld itself to the bore, most heavily where the explosion occurred. In the unlikely event that the barrel DOES NOT erupt into multiple small high velocity fragments it will be useless anyway.

Go back to your process for making black powder, figure out where you went wrong and try again.

you do not wanna mill kno3 with aluminum it is not safe.if your powder is not fast enough try using balsa charcoal that makes very hot bp but start out low and work your way up as this mix will send baseballs up to the heavens

[rfd]

i think this thread belongs in the subs forum - this is the bp forum.

[Texantothecore]

Aluminum is so explosive that skylighter will only sell you 1 lb per year. It is used in thermobaric ordnance such as the MOAB.
Don't do it.

[jonp]

Aluminum is so explosive that skylighter will only sell you 1 lb per year. It is used in thermobaric ordnance such as the MOAB.
Don't do it.

Odd you would say this. I bought 4lbs not long ago from them

[Travelor]

My mistake calling it Tannerite. I was wrong.

Sorry

[Texantothecore]

Skylighter must have changed their policy. My understanding is that it is suitable for fireworks but should not be used in a firearm in any quantity.

Just too dangerous to mess with.

[perotter]

Skylighter must have changed their policy. My understanding is that it is suitable for fireworks but should not be used in a firearm in any quantity.

Just too dangerous to mess with.

A small percentage of it can be used in ammonium nitrate based smokeless powder. It has benefits in a few things outside of being a fuel.

It increases the burn rate by transferring heat between molecules of AN faster than say charcoal, raising the overall temperature of the reaction and lower ignition temperature. It also makes the powder grains pick up less water from surrounding air(helps the power dry).

FWIW. As ammonium nitrate powders have similar pressures to conventional smokeless powders, one has to be much more careful using them than one does using a black powder type of propellant. I don't use aluminum powder in the AN powders I've made to lower ignition temperature and increase burn rate.

[Texantothecore]

Aluminum burns a 6920 F. Erosion of the throat would occur on the first shot. Don't do it

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I shouldn't be surprised if there are people on Youtube explaining that it works perfectly for them. But I think Youtube can explode your gun and erode your barrel.

Things must happen in unimaginably short periods of time inside a rifle barrel. It is pretty easy to make black powder that will work well enough for quarrying etc., but very difficult to make it work really well in a firearm. I think that in the hypothetical event that the proposed mixture can work safely and well, it would require the sort of fine division and incorporation that would make black powder work well.

[victorfox]

AJG when I suggested you scavenge powder from firework I was meanning only the propeller charge that throws the stuff to the sky. It's generally black powder, straight but sometimes very fine. Good luck and please.follow our friends advice. I have some material on flash powder making and it won't be good for your valuable guns.

[oldred]

Odd you would say this. I bought 4lbs not long ago from them

I could be wrong but I think they go by what grade of Aluminum powder is being sold, it's my understanding they get a bit picky about the finest mesh grade and limit the sales of that. Courser grades can be used for many things in fireworks and are not nearly as restricted but the finest grade's main purpose they try to limit is it's suitability for making M80 firecrackers, etc.

[Tracy]

Who cares about Skylighter anyway. Here's five lbs of the exact same aluminum powder as the best Skylighter carries, for about the same shipped price as one lb from Skylighter. http://amzn.to/2aY0KBX

[cal50]

This is a flash powder used for pyrotechnics. I think it would be far too dangerous to use as a propellant. It's several times more powerful than BP and the temperature of the burning aluminum would most likely damage the firearm if it didn't just blow it up.

I don't think I'd even try mixing it in a ball mill.


Flash powder uses Potassium Perchlorate as the oxidizer, NOT KNO3 or Potassium Nitrate.
BIG difference and the type of powdered aluminum used also makes a world of difference in burn rates.

Flash powder can me made very tame , like a photo flash or flash pot using a spheroidal aluminum powder. Flash powder used in salutes is a fine micron flake powder. Flake powder has more exposed surface area and burns faster than a powder grain line a sphere.

Making ANY quantity of flash powder requires a federal manufactures permit for explosives and a approved storage magazine, etc.

Stick with traditional BP with 10% sulfur using a willow or light wood charcoal pressed to the same commercial density and you will have excellent performance.

[Tracy]

Making ANY quantity of flash powder requires a federal manufactures permit for explosives and a approved storage magazine, etc.


Only if sold, transported, stored or used for commercial purposes. That requirement doesn't apply if mixed and used right away for personal uses. BATFE says so explicitly right on their website, and cites the law to back it up.

[Ianagos]

I see a lot of misinformation on chemicals.
Ditch the aluminum and do 80% kno3 20%charcoal (high quality made of something like willow) and ball mill it. I think you'll have more problems than it's worth with the aluminum and it's reasonably safe but maybe not with chemicals in primers.