Olde Eynsford????

[jjarrell]

Does anyone have personal experience with OE? All the info and posts I've seen start with "I have heard". Have any of you actually tried it? It's supposed to be cleaner with less fouling and have velocities comparable to Swiss. I can get it for $22 a pound locally and want to give it a whirl. Is it that clean burning and does it produce the velocity claimed?

[rodwha]

I use it and like it. I've not used any other BP though as I require higher power levels in my revolvers for hunting.

I've used Triple 7 a lot as well and I can say that the POI is the same at 15 yds which would suggest similar velocities, which is what the various chronographed results seem to show as well.

[John Boy]

Have analyzed Ole E' and shot nearly a case of it:
* Depending on RH & Temperature, Olde E' foul is comparable to KIK & Swiss
* Comparable loads of Swiss - KIK - Olde E' ( same grade) - Olde E' is about 100 fps faster. Reason is because Goex has juiced up the ratio of grain sizes in the mix for each grade of powder:

Swiss 1.5 (250.205)
12 mesh – 0.27% retained
14 mesh – 5.24% retained
20 mesh - 92.59% retained
30 mesh - 0.10% retained
Through - 0.72%

Olde E' 1.5Fg:
20 mesh - 98.163% Hold
30 mesh - 0.612% Hold
40 mesh - 0.000%
50 mesh - 1.224% Hold
60 mesh - Trace
80 mesh - Trace Passed

Swiss FFg (250.504)
20 mesh - 76.16% retained
30 mesh - 23.50% retained
Through - 0.34%

Olde E FFg:
20 mesh - 62.81% Hold
30 mesh - 32.32% Hold
40 mesh - 04.27% Hold
50 mesh - 00.60% Hold
60 mesh - Trace

Swiss FFFg (270.409
20 mesh - Trace
30 mesh - 87.2% Hold
40 mesh - 12.8% Hold
50 mesh - Trace

Olde E FFFg:
10 mesh - Zero
20 mesh - 8.07% Hold
30 mesh - 44.72% Hold
40 mesh - 32.29% Hold
50 mesh - 13.66% Hold
60 mesh - 1.24% Hold
80 mesh - Trace passed

Grain density is comparable to KIK & Swiss, except for the Ole E' FFFg grade:

Density Test: Three samples locked at 100gr volumetric - powder vibrated and then weighed on a digital scale, accurate to x.02gr:
1.5Fg - 1.0219 avg
FFG - 1.0283 avg
FFFg - 1.0824 avg

[curator]

I have been loading Olde Eynsford 1 1/2Fg and FFg in .40-65, .45-70, 11.7X51R .44-40 and .45 Colt. Velocities are equal to Swiss, and Triple seven Fauxpowder when comparing similar loads. Fouling is very light compared to regular Goex. It is a bit more expensive than Goex but less so than Swiss. I like it a lot. OE must also produce somewhat higher pressure than an equal amount of Goex same grade. Using 32 grains of either FFg or even FFFg Goex with my .45 Colt rifle, I always got cartridge cases with sooty sides indicating the case was not sealing the chamber against powder gas. Using the same volume (32 grains) of FFg OE and case sides come out clean and primers showed a bit more flattening. These loads also show an increase in velocity of about 150 fps

[rhbrink]

I have used quite a bit of 3FFF and 2FF Old E. in muzzleloaders the 3FFF is quite HOT and will burn patches easily unless you back down some on the powder charge. The 2 FF doesn't seem as hot and shoots extremely well in every thing that I have used it in. Both seem to shoot cleaner than GOEX maybe but I'm a paper puncher and wipe between shoots so that is of little matter to me.

Richard

[Bent Ramrod]

I use Olde Eynsford 1-1/2 Fg in my .45-70. It needs 66 grains of OE to achieve the same elevation with the same boolit at 600 yards that I get with 63 grains of Swiss 1-1/2Fg. Needing three extra grains is, of course, lost in the difference in price, and the accuracy is identical.

Like other GOEX powders, and unlike Swiss, which can take or leave it, OE requires some compression to work well. But against the cost differential, a little extra preparation is also a triviality.

Sixteen old curmudgeons, including yer humble Narrator, went past the GOEX stand at the Quigley this year, and asked the lady in charge why Olde Eynsford wasn't made in 1Fg grade. She said the idea simply hadn't occurred to anybody; they had been mainly concerned with going after Swiss's lock on the market in the 1-1/2Fg size. She said she'd pass our "groundswell" up the corporate ladder. I'd love to try OE 1Fg in my paper patch loads.

[Omnivore]

I've been through a few pounds of OE 3F in percussion revolvers. As has been said it's very close in performance to Swiss, and it's a tad bit denser than regular Goex, so if you're using the same charge volume it's going to be more powerful compared to using a scale to achieve the same charge mass. Likewise of course, if you're using the same charge mass it'll take up slightly less space than regular Goex.

I use a scale to calibrate my powder measure whenever I change powders and so when I say I'm using a 30 grain charge, I'm using a 30 grain charge, etc. I'm not seeing the big increase in power compared to regular Goex then. You understand. If you have limited case or chamber capacity, and you want to stuff in as much total impulse as you can (I believe that's what rod what is saying) then OE or Swiss are your best choices, so long as you get the accuracy you need.

As for the difference in fouling; I say it doesn't matter-- you use the fouling mitigation practices appropriate to the powder being used, and so it's never a problem. Some time ago I asked everyone on another forum what was the nastiest fouling powder, with the intent to show that it doesn't matter, and I believe I successfully made the point. It is said that you'll not get twelve to eighteen shots off from a percussion revolver without having to pull the cylinder, wipe the arbor, and lube it again for the next twelve to eighteen shots. I got off over 100 shots with no maintenance, using what was said was the most fouling powder, and shot a decent group at the end. I believe I could shoot from sun-up to sun-down, non stop, no cleaning, and get the same result. So if you have a fouling problem, then change things, loading-wise, until you don't. The powder only determines what it is you have to do to keep the gun running nicely, and frankly I don't notice much difference in fouling from one powder to another, at least in the revolvers. A long gun is quite a different beast, I'll admit.

If you have some time to spend reading, here is that thread;
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=8975.0
Forgive me for being so wordy, or if I come off as boastful. I'm still learning as I go.

[jjarrell]

Thank you for everyone's input and information. Very helpful.

[jjarrell]

John Boy, what were the velocities your loads achieved?

[Maven]

jj...., Check out these prices for actual Swiss BP, not Olde Eynsford: http://addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html

[Baja_Traveler]

I've been using it for a little over a year in my BPCR rifles, and it looks and shoots the same as Swiss. Very little sight changes at all between them, about the same fouling that I can tell, and 1/3 less cost.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Olde%20Eynsford/DSCN6474.jpg

Set up 10 feet from the chrono. CVA Hawken .50cal 28" barrel, 1:48 twist, .490" round ball, .020" moose milk lubed patch, lubed veg wad. 80 grains 3fg Olde Eynsford black powder.

Clean Bore - 1889 - Fouled 1907 - Fouled 1917

---------------
110gr 1.5 fg Olde Eynsford
.570" round ball
.020" patch lubed with moose milk

Each load was pressed down firmly, no swabbing between shots and no cool down.

Chrony was set up at 15 feet.

1627
1598
1569

ES- 57.59
SD- 29.00

[rodwha]

Here's some:

http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=6410.0

[RPRNY]

I have shot about 12 lbs of OE in 1.5Fg, 2Fg, and 3Fg over the past 18 months or so after switching from Swiss. I see no marked difference in fouling. I see no marked difference in performance. I seem to have lower SD and a few FPS more with OE, but very difficult to pin down as 'definitely the powder'. In my view, they are effectively interchangeable and purchase should be based on convenience and price.

[fiberoptik]

Set up 10 feet from the chrono. CVA Hawken .50cal 28" barrel, 1:48 twist, .490" round ball, .020" moose milk lubed patch, lubed veg wad. 80 grains 3fg Olde Eynsford black powder.

Clean Bore - 1889 - Fouled 1907 - Fouled 1917

---------------
110gr 1.5 fg Olde Eynsford
.570" round ball
.020" patch lubed with moose milk

Each load was pressed down firmly, no swabbing between shots and no cool down.

Chrony was set up at 15 feet.

How do you ram a .570 ball with patch down a .50 cal bore??? Ya got bigger arms than me!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

those are 2 different loads for 2 different rifles of course.

[reivertom]

I've never seen or heard of it until this thread.....I guess I'm getting out of the "loop" in the last few years. I doubt it will come anywhere close to me.......I'm lucky we have one business left that still sells Goex.

[rodwha]

Goex makes Olde Eynsford. May just find it.

[Omnivore]

I doubt it will come anywhere close to me......

You have heard of mail order, I bet. It's as close as the UPS driver can get to your door, Man. I've never seen Old Eynsford on the store shelves, nor Swiss. Not ever, not anywhere. Nor have I seen regular Goex in my local area stores for decades. Why should that matter? I still have multiple pounds of each of those powders in my loading room, and so can you.

You obviously have a computer and therefor you can order stuff on line. Or use your phone. Either way, they deliver it right to your door. Lots of companies stock it, and they're as close as your computer or phone. I got my last order of Old Eynsford from Buffalo Arms in Idaho, though I've never been into, or even seen, their store.

Don't have a bank card? I understand. Mail them a check, or pick up one of those rechargeable gift cards they sell at all supermarkets, etc.

[rodwha]

Don't have a bank card? I understand. Mail them a check, or pick up one of those rechargeable gift cards they sell at all supermarkets, etc.

I've been reading a bit lately that online transactions are better dealt in such a way in case they are hacked. They can't take what isn't there.

When I first got started I used nothing but Triple 7 as there was no Olde E and Swiss wasn't available in all of San Anotnio (1 million + people). I bought from BassPro that was maybe 20-25 mins away. However they didn't have any 3F on the shelf for months, which meant I wouldn't be shooting.

And so I looked online and found Grafs would sell without a minimum. I hated HazMat fees on top of shipping and handling, but noticed the price for one bottle was a good bit lower without tax. In essence ordering 3 bottles negated those fees, but ensured I no longer wasted any trips. Pretty nice having it hand delivered to your door. But it now also allows me to buy the cheaper Olde E which gives me about the same performance as T7 does.

[reivertom]

I figured it would be too expensive to mail order due to hazmat shipping unless I bought a really large quantity.

[Omnivore]

See rodwha's comment above;


I hated HazMat fees on top of shipping and handling, but noticed the price for one bottle was a good bit lower without tax. In essence ordering 3 bottles negated those fees, but ensured I no longer wasted any trips.

I order several pounds of powder maybe once a year, never having to drive anywhere wondering if it'll be in stock. If one 25 dollar hazmat fee per year is going to break the bank, well, I don't know what to say about that. Maybe you could start making your own black powder. Better yet, go in with some friends and order 25 pounds at a time. Splitting the hazmat fee, that's only a dollar per pound extra, and I bet it could end up being your cheapest way to buy powder.

The local stores don't usually stock the caps I use either, so I order those in lots of a thousand (ten tins of 100) and that lasts a good long time. It also means you can ride out the shortages. The last time caps were unavailable for several months, I didn't miss a beat. I kept right on shooting, and ordered another thousand when they became available again. Hey, don't knock it; it works. 8-)

Same goes for Balistol. No one here stocks it, in spite of my having asked them for it several times. I like it, so I order it on line. Don't get me wrong; I'd much rather deal locally, but if they don't feel it's worth stocking, then, OK-- The couple of dollars profit on that order of powder goes out to another county, or out of state.