Building a custom Vernier tang sight?

[Tnfalconer]

Ok so has anyone tried to machine their own custom sights for long range competition? I have a couple in house but having a small machine shop/gunsmith shop I have often thought about making my own. I know it might seem like a lot of work for such a little thing but the price of really good ones have gone up lately and I have to think someone has built their own. There are plenty of places to purchase all the materials required.

I prefer the Goodwin style tang sight myself and I can think of a few additions I would like to make to one, were I to build my own. Looking at the ones I have and developing a print to illustrate the changes I would like to make now. In the building of my latest custom rifle, I feel like I need to do it to complete the "Fully handmade" aspect of this rifle.


So anyone made any? Post up some pics!!!

[Tnfalconer]

in looking into materials I think it would be really nice to use 360 brass. Not this it I the best material, or the most structurally sound, I just think it would be a very nice to look at. Should function fine and after it was tarnished a little bit it would look the part.

[big bore 99]

I believe Midway had info on this project on their youtube channel.

[Tnfalconer]

I believe Midway had info on this project on their youtube channel.

I watched the video recently but it was a much simpler design than I was thinking of. The process is still about the same but adding threaded screw for adjustments and whatnot complicate it a little more.

[targetfreak]

I was looking for the same thing, on other firearms forums. Specifically, blueprints/dimensional drawings. Nobody could help. Something like the Marbles brand/style would be good. Have a home shop but little guidance about specifics.

[Tnfalconer]

I found a link on Practical Machinist that a guy was blueprinting one. Look there.

[M-Tecs]

The Hoke sight is from a one man shop. I have one and it's outstanding. It would be a good one to copy. http://kermitool.com/hoke_rifle_sight.html

[marvelshooter]

Here is the one I made for an old English percussion rifle I inherited from my father in law. It is made from aluminum and is adjustable for elevation only.
173005173006173007
The holes in the stock were already there when I received the rifle. I never would have drilled them.

[Tnfalconer]

Here is the one I made for an old English percussion rifle I inherited from my father in law. It is made from aluminum and is adjustable for elevation only.
173005173006173007
The holes in the stock were already there when I received the rifle. I never would have drilled them.

That is a BEEFY sight! Looks good too! I don't know why but I have in mind something with a brass rod as the mast. Goodwin style so the aperture is off to the right for windage adjustments. I am thinking of boring and tapping the inside of it for the elevation adjustment if you follow. Slotted on one side for the carrier of the aperture. It's all in my head there, I just need to draw something up I guess.

[kywoodwrkr]

ASSRA http://assra.com/Archivelibrary.htm under Other Services
"Detailed dimensional rifle drawings. All of these were reverse engineered for casting kits the screw sizes are modern. The following are available. Winchester Single Shot, Ballard, Farrow, Sharps 1874, Remington No. 1 rolling block (including SST, OST, and side lever conversion), Remington Hep*burn, and Ballard & Soule tang sights, 8-1/2x11” sets for $10 each pdd . We also now have prints for the Sharps Borchardt these are done for making the action from bar stock and beleive the screw sizes are correct for original rifles."

I've gotten some of the Ballard and Soule tang sights in MasterCam (MCX) for future(?) milling and cutting.
The drawings as rendered can be converted to other ie IGES, DWG etc.
Lot of good things at ASSRA.

[w5pv]

Well done,good craftsmanship

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You should consult Wikipedia, via the links on this page, for screw threads to find one that is the right diameter and pitch for the graduations you have or care to engrave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#ISO_standard_threads

For example two turns of a 10-32UNF screw or three of a 4-48 screw will move the sight by one 1/16in. division of the scale, and there are similar equivalents in metric threads. You can work out for yourself, from your sight base, how many clicks to divide your adjusting screw into, to give the right movement of impact per click.

There is a lot to be said for using a piece cut from a cheap Chinese stainless steel ruler for your scale. You can do as neat a job as you please of inletting and pinning, screwing or epoxying into the sight ladder. If you don't want to do this, though, the cross-saddle adjustments on a a lathe or milling machine would be good enough to engrave them. You could use a non-rotating point working by pressure alone, a proper engraving-machine cutter, or one you make for yourself. The carbide micro-drill you see on eBay are mostly for printed circuit board work, and so thin in the web they break very easily. But what remains of the 1/8in. shank is fine for this job, when ground with the Dremel tool and a diamond burr or disc.

[Tnfalconer]

You should consult Wikipedia, via the links on this page, for screw threads to find one that is the right diameter and pitch for the graduations you have or care to engrave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#ISO_standard_threads

For example two turns of a 10-32UNF screw or three of a 4-48 screw will move the sight by one 1/16in. division of the scale, and there are similar equivalents in metric threads. You can work out for yourself, from your sight base, how many clicks to divide your adjusting screw into, to give the right movement of impact per click.

There is a lot to be said for using a piece cut from a cheap Chinese stainless steel ruler for your scale. You can do as neat a job as you please of inletting and pinning, screwing or epoxying into the sight ladder. If you don't want to do this, though, the cross-saddle adjustments on a a lathe or milling machine would be good enough to engrave them. You could use a non-rotating point working by pressure alone, a proper engraving-machine cutter, or one you make for yourself. The carbide micro-drill you see on eBay are mostly for printed circuit board work, and so thin in the web they break very easily. But what remains of the 1/8in. shank is fine for this job, when ground with the Dremel tool and a diamond burr or disc.



I have a good friend with a laser engraving setup. Once the scale has been made up, I can send it to him and have it engraved on the mast.

[Drm50]

I have always been going to make a tang sight, adj. for windage and elev. What I have been up
to,is collecting parts off various old machinist gauges / tools ect that have micrometer type adj.
So when I get around to it I will only have to make the frame and base and bridge. Will be able
to use the micrometer movements instead of making them. I am going to use steel for mine, as
all my parts are steel.

[TCLouis]

Elevation is a piece of cake, making any quality level for windage adjustment has stopped me dead.

[Tnfalconer]

The Goodwin style sight makes it sort of easy to fabricate and get windage going.

[W.R.Buchanan]

One of the biggest considerations when figuring out which thread to use on your sight is what the sight radius is going to be, which will relate directly to what part of a turn will equal 1MOA.

When I designed my Front Sight Adjustment tool for #4 Mk1 Enfields I used 1/4-28 bolts for the adjusters because with the Sight Radius of that gun. On that gun 1 MOA = .008 lateral movement at either the Front or Rear Sight. Also the different Front Sight Blades available for that gun were in .015 increments so each different sight blade was 2 MOA Elevation change from the ones on either side.

With standard English Spec Ball Ammo you would set the ladder sight at 200yards. Then change the front sight blades until the gun shot to the sights in elevation, Then you would drift the Front Sight using a screw driven tool to zero the gun in windage. From that point onwards the gun would shoot to whatever elevation you cranked into the sight. This is known as "Establishing the Mechanical Zero."

However all of this was based on the Known Trajectory of the Standard Ball Ammo they used. If you changed the bullet or the velocity the trajectory changed and that sight would no longer be calibrated to the different ammo.. However if you went back to the ball ammo it would.

Using the Ball Ammo trajectory as the standard ammo for that gun, you could tweak the sight to accommodate any other ammo by shooting it and recording the new elevation offsets. Thus you could shoot any ammo you pleased but still maintain the Mechanical Zero for that gun which could be reverted to any time, and be zeroed for Ball Ammo again.

In other words you always had a known place to start from.

If you are designing a sight the main consideration as far as screw thread pitch would be how easily you can divide up one turn on the screw.

In my case I used Hex Head Bolts or Allen Head Screws for my adjusters. So with a screw pitch of .041 per rev, 1/6th of a turn (one Flat on the hex head) equaled .007 of movement. And since .008 equals 1MOA it is pretty easy to predictably move the front sight to correct for windage on THAT gun. In reality since there is a little slack in the threads it worked out to be more like .006 or 3/4 MOA per Flat, So two flats = 1.5MOA and so on. The tool was very accurate and worked well as the amounts you would be off when you tweaked it would be well within any group you shot with that gun, and especially with the relatively crude sights on that gun.

So before you dive off the cliff, figure out what your sight radius will be and how much movement will equal 1" at 100 yards. Then find a screw thread who's pitch is evenly divisible in to one revolution,,, and go for it.

Good Luck

Randy

[1066]

Here's a rather nice handmade target sight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Zplr-a84Q

[targetfreak]

I originally made a copy of the Skinner aperture (peep) sight, but it was too far from my eye to be useful. Then I spent about two weeks looking for online plans for a tang-mounted sight, which would have had both elevation and windage adjustments. No luck, and didn't have any brain fireworks to inspire a truly good design. So, I sprung for a Marble's tang-mounted peep sight, which has both adjustments, with click stops, and am more than happy. Also well-made and compact.

[Hamish]

Randy,

Post #17? Just outstanding, thank you.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hamish: they are available for sale on my Website.

www.buchananprecisionmachine.com


Randy

[targetfreak]

Randy's link DOES NOT work.
Even if it did, it wouldn't answer the thread author's original question.

[W.R.Buchanan]

It works now,,,

and it was meant for Hamish.

I answered the OP's question in post #17

The thread pitch is contingent on the sight radius of the gun you are making the sight for.

Randy