Shooting cast after jacketed ?

[JoeH]

I seem to recall reading somewhere at some time that to get accuracy with any cast alloy bullet it is essential that the bore be scrubbed clean of any trace of copper fouling. I don't much worry about that with my pistols since I don't shoot tiny groups with a pistol anyhow. Nor is it a problem with my 38/55 which has never seen a jacket bullet. I do however shoot mostly jacketed bullets out of my .357 Mag Marlin 1894C and would like to do some accurate plinking with powder coated cast 158 SWC's. So do I really have to scrub the bore totally clean before shooting cast? I'd like to be able to switch back and forth between cast plinking loads of Unique and full bore magnum loads with a 158 JHP over W296.

[AtomHeartMother]

Guess it never hurts to clean the bore....but I haven't experienced it. I shot a bunch of 158gn plated 38 specials out of my Richards-Mason revolver followed up by some of my own cast 105gn swc...drove tacks with either bullet...though it does shoot a little high with the former. I powder coat my little 105's as well.... well, I pc all my own cast boolits. I would think so long as your rifling looks nice and sharp you shouldn't lose any accuracy shooting jacketed followed by lead.

[rintinglen]

I haven't experienced the problem, but I don't shoot very much jacketed out of my cast guns, nor very much cast in my jacketed guns. There are those who maintain that carefully cleaning all traces of copper fouling from the bore of a rifle gives you the best opportunity to achieve maximum accuracy. I can't say one way or the other. I haven't tested this. But some folks whose opinion I am inclined to trust say that it is so, and I clean my guns thoroughly every time I shoot them, so you pays your money and takes your choice.

[Scharfschuetze]

That's certainly been the corporate opinion for as long as I've been shooting cast boolits.

I can't argue with the issue as I have no empirical evidence or experience to support it as my firearms get cleaned well after each use. In addition to that, my cast boolit and my antique firearms only get cast boolits through them and thus no copper fouling. My handguns that see both types of bullets are probably just not accurate enough on the MOA level to say one way or the other. Cast shoot as well as jacketed and vice a versa in my most accurate handguns.


but I don't shoot very much jacketed out of my cast guns, nor very much cast in my jacketed guns

I guess I'm in the same boat as Rintinglen.

Back in the early to mid 70s there was a lot of talk of conditioning a cast boolit barrel by not cleaning it. There might be something to that, but I never tried it, even in my cast boolit only rifles.

[runfiverun]

I don't clean my cast barrels all that often I just don't see anything in there that needs taking out.

as far as switching back and forth? that's a maybe.
copper has a tendency of grabbing at the passing lead and there is a chance of lead building up over the copper.

[JoeH]

Thanks for all replies.

[popper]

I do it all the time, can't say accuracy degrades. POI is usually different for cast.

[quilbilly]

I do it all the time, can't say accuracy degrades. POI is usually different for cast.
Ditto. That is why I have separate rifles for cast and jacketed.

[Lon246]

I shot CBA matches for several years using Rem 700 30-06. Accuracy was noticeably poorer if I did not get the "gold outa the grooves". In fact, I know that rifle was significantly more accurate with a thorough cleaning when switching from bullets to boolits or vice versa. Handguns, I don't know.

[fredj338]

If extreme accuracy is desired, I clean before switching to lead or back to jacketed. As noted, copper/gilding metal can pull small amounts of lead as the bullet passes over. Certainly can't be good for accuracy.

[h8dirt]

IIRC. Wilson Combat (the makers of those marvelous 1911's) recommend that you completely clean copper fouling from the bore before shooting lead. Supposedly, the adhered copper tends to shear the lead and cause an increase in bore leading. I have taken the advice and have not had any problems.

[Regulator.]

clean it as mentioned by several members will shoot better as a rule

[JoeH]

So the consensus seems to be thorough cleaning is essential to cast bullet accuracy?
Thanks, now I have to clean my Marlin.[smilie=s:

[runfiverun]

yeah kinda.
a few jacketed rounds down a seasoned cast bore probably won't leave anything behind but powder residue.
start putting a whole box of ammo down one and your at square one again.

[JSH]

Just my findings,YMMV.
I don't swap between the two myself. I have seen a difference when jumping back and forth with no cleaning. I guess I am fortunate enough to to have goodly supply of alloy for rifles and pistols. I look at the price of a box of jacketed compared to buying a new custom mold. One box of bullets puts a fair size dent in what a mold would cost me.
There are those that say to fire several to several hundreds of rounds of jacketed ammo to bind ish the bore. Why not just fire a half dozen CB's coated in some fine lapping compound?
I have jacketed guns and CB guns.
What I expect from them is over top in most crowds. I can add several variables without shooting a jacketed. Lol I add variables at times unkowingly and unwanted.
I have used several bore cleaners that get a bore squeaky clean. It takes several rounds to get them fouled back in and start to group.

I have been told numerous times and read here there and yonder if you lead a bore to just fire some jacketed through it and it will blow it out. I did that one time in an '03 Springfield, what a mess. Never again. I was informed I did not use the right jacketed type bullet or it would have worked.
That was the very worse case of leading I ever had to get out of a bore period. FYI this rifle was a proven CB shooter. I tried a buddies softer alloy he had lubed and sized, they were undersized at .310.
A nylon bore brush, Kroil and maybe some JB bore paste is all I have used on any CB bore in the past 15 years.

[mdi]

The only guns I run both cast and jacketed through is my 9mms. I see no added leading if I shoot cast after jacketed, nor degradation of accuracy shooting jacketed after lead. I have used cast lead in a couple rifles when 90% of the previous ammo was jacketed, but those were military rifles with questionable bored (dark bores), and I saw no fouling or loss of accuracy.

[JoeH]

I do always clean after shooting but I clean lightly, a patch or two with Hoppe's, a dry patch or two and a patch with some sort of gun oil. If the powder was black or Pyrodex I first swab out with several patches wet with a citrus solvent, then dry and oil. I have never tried to scrub every trace of gilding metal from the groves, it seems like it could take a while. What would you all recommend as a copper cutter?

[runfiverun]

those foaming bore cleaners are the bomb.
spray in, go do something else, come back and push a patch down the barrel.
squirt it again and come back later.
this time push the gunk out then run a wet patch down the barrel followed by a couple dry ones and finally a oiled patch.
if your prepping for cast use atf on the last wet one.

when I spray it in I put the barrel down against some rags and make sure the nozzle [tube] on the can is tight against the end of the chamber.
I gently lift the muzzle up as I'm spraying and listen to the air escaping so I know the foam is coming.
the can I have has cleaned,,,,, jeez, not totally sure.
but at least a dozen barrels and it still has more to go.

[GhostHawk]

Did exactly that today, 2 different guns, both 9mm.

Both started out with fairly large groups but grew significantly better as the bore conditioned to cast.

[JoeH]

those foaming bore cleaners are the bomb.
spray in, go do something else, come back and push a patch down the barrel.
squirt it again and come back later.
this time push the gunk out then run a wet patch down the barrel followed by a couple dry ones and finally a oiled patch.
if your prepping for cast use atf on the last wet one.

when I spray it in I put the barrel down against some rags and make sure the nozzle [tube] on the can is tight against the end of the chamber.
I gently lift the muzzle up as I'm spraying and listen to the air escaping so I know the foam is coming.
the can I have has cleaned,,,,, jeez, not totally sure.
but at least a dozen barrels and it still has more to go.

Geez, I remember having a can of that stuff but I don't recall having seen it since I moved 2 years ago. Some day I'm going to get organazized.

[Victor N TN]

OK... I'm really old school, I guess. Does the spray and soak cleaner work any better than Sweet's 7.62 ???

[Digital Dan]

Probably not, but you don't want to let Sweets sit in the bore for protracted time.

Solved this his awhile back. I don't mix bullets in a single barrel. Lead or copper, not both.

[Victor N TN]

Probably not, but you don't want to let Sweets sit in the bore for protracted time.

Solved this his awhile back. I don't mix bullets in a single barrel. Lead or copper, not both.

Good advise.

My rule for Sweet's is to never leave it long enough to dry in the barrel. A chemist friend that shoots told me that when it dries it does some kind of chemical reaction with the steel of the barrel. I can't remember what the reaction was. But he said it would lead to the bore having "alligator" looking finish in the grooves. I've seen that in a friends pre '64 Winchester 70 in 30-06. I bore scoped the barrel for him and let him see that himself. It looked bad.

[Scharfschuetze]

OK... I'm really old school, I guess. Does the spray and soak cleaner work any better than Sweet's 7.62 ???

Victor,

I still use Sweet's 7.62 after the shooting season is over on my match rifles that only see jacketed bullets. I really haven't found a better copper solvent than it.

Back in the early days of the 1903 Springfield and cupronickel jackets, the US Army had a 3% Ammonia formula that was reportedly as good as it got. The bore was plugged and the formula poured in and it was allowed to sit for a while. Unfortunately it would ruin a barrel from time to time if any O2 got into the bore while it soaked.

Given that, Digital Dan's advise is correct in not letting the Sweets sit in bore too long.

At one time, I had a copper solvent made from horse urine that was absolutely Hell on copper fouling, but it was not something you left in the bore for any length of time.

[leebuilder]

Nifty never knew the was a problem like that. I usually not so much clean as soak the barrels with Eds Red or oil then wipe or scrub before a shoot. I use sweets with jacketed thingies but not all the time only when required or accuracy falls.
I find my barrels after shooting PC boolits the bore is shiney with a bit of filth at the origin of the lands.
I recently sighted in a friend's Mosin, it looked like a crud factory in the grooves. Once I had it on paper and within 4 inches with surplus ammo I shot about 40 cast through it, it looked much cleaner. Boiled it out when I got home and used sweets and Eds Red, a pile of patches and a smeck of elbow grease it was pretty shiny. Hope I didn't clean all the "x" rings out.
Be safe