348 Winchester

[Scharfschuetze]

My latest project is developing an elk load for a Model 71 Winchester. I'm using the 250 grain Barns jacketed flat point.

In reviewing Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" for the 348, I see that he recommends slower powders like 4350 and 4831 for the heavy bullets. I have both those powders and will try starting loads with them tomorrow at the range.

On the other hand, Barns Bullet Company recommends 4895 with the heavy bullet and slower powders with their lighter bullets. Go figure!

Any one have any experience with this now niche cartridge and its favored powder diet with heavy bullets?

[smokeywolf]

Have not yet done a lot of reloading for the model 71, but also use info from Ken Waters' book and am of the opinion that slower powders for heavier bullets is often the best choice. On the other hand, I have used IMR 4895 in the cartridge with positive results.

[rintinglen]

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I have done a fair bit of shooting with mine, but I have not used the 250 grain BARNES bullet. Nothing that I hunt can justify such a heavy bullet.

I have two molds specifically for the .348, a 200 grain RCBS GC FN and A similar but heavier 220 grain boolit from Accurate that get most of my trade, but I have also tried the 200 grain Hornady offerings. In the picture above right, there are two of the Hornady 200 grain Leverevolution bullets, two 200 grain Hornady RN cartridges and two Accurate 35-220B boolits.

4350 and WW 760 have been the most accurate for me. I have not tried 4831. In limited testing, 4895 did not work as well as IMR 4350 or 760. WW-748 was also a wash out. The Leverevolution bullets are my projectile of choice. 55.5 grains of WW-760 gets me right at 2400 fps and all the accuracy I can ring out of this old gun.

The other two cartridges are my plinkers. I load 358-429 grain boolits sized .351 over 13.0 grains of red dot for an accurate, low-recoil load. The only draw back is that they hit way low compared to my hunting loads.

[Rick B]

The Model 71 348 WCF is a great combination. When I started loading the 348 I went with Ken Waters recommendation and used a stiff load of H4831 and a 200 grain Hornady. The cast load I shoot is a 187 grain Lyman 350447 with a slightly reduced load of the same powder at 1900 FPS. Both loads shoot extremely well. I have no experience with the 250 Barnes, but would start with H4831.
Rick

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have used H414, CCI250 primer with the Hornady 200 grain .348 Flat Point, getting 2470 fps, accuracy about 2", best I can do with open sights. I have some 200 grain Swift A-frames also, if I use it for elk. Hornady makes a pointed bullet with the soft plastic tip. Haven't shot anything with the 71, just have it. Last year I shot 6 point bull using Hornady's 200 grain out of a .358, 80+ yards through hole in timber, Punched through both shoulders and found pieces under the hide on the far side. No offense but that 250 Barnes is adding significant recoil, no argument about its effective killing. I've used Barnes 300 grain originals (45-70) on quite a few elk. I use a .350 225 grain GC NEI with 4198 for fun. Goes about 2" at a hundred when the light is good on the 71's open sights.

[rintinglen]

H414 and WW-760 are the same powder and give excellent results. IMR 4350 also works well and does good work in several other calibers that I load for, eg 30-40 and 30-06, so I have try to keep that one on the shelf. Another powder that has reportedly worked well is IMR 4320. I have not had luck with it in other calibers so I do not keep it on hand, but it has done good work for others. Hodgdon has loads for the Barnes 250 grain bullet using every powder that has been mentioned thus far.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have no experience with the 250 Barnes, but would start with H4831.

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll start my range time today with the old Model 71 and its elk loads. I'm initially starting with H 4831 powder with a reduced starting load and working up.

Here is an interesting comparison. My loads with the 348 will use the 250 grain slug and a projected 60 grains of powder. My 30/30 is pretty happy with a 170 grain slug over right at 30 grains of powder. The 348 was a true magnum in its day.

[TXGunNut]

Here is an interesting comparison. My loads with the 348 will use the 250 grain slug and a projected 60 grains of powder. My 30/30 is pretty happy with a 170 grain slug over right at 30 grains of powder. The 348 was a true magnum in its day. -Scharf

Interesting indeed, no slouch today!

[Chill Wills]

I have had two M-71's and they are both gone now. Traded, not because they were bad in any way but because I wanted to learn about other rifles and cast for hunting.

Brass Magnet got a ship load of 348 cases from me for a good price a few years ago. I still have the mold and dies and some other 348 specific stuff.

I took my first cast bullet elk, a cow with a 348Win and the NEI 235 cast two part, hard base and soft nose. It was decades ago - scary - anyway, heat treated WW base shank with a 20-1 nose. Sounds hard but it is easy once you make a few and get the hang of it.

When you HT this kind of bullet the lead/tin nose does not harden - only the Pb,Sn,Sb 3-metal alloy shank.
Two pots side by each. Definitely some rejects - you only need a few to hunt with and can sight in and practice with one part bullets.

[Scharfschuetze]

Good results at the range today.

I started at 56 grains of H 4831 behind that 250 grain Barnes FP and worked up to 60 grains. WW cases and Remington 9 1/2 magnum primers are the other components. The magnum primers were chosen as this rifle will be used during elk season in the high country where temperatures can drop significantly from summer temperatures.

Accuracy improved significantly from the starting load to the final load with the last group going 1 1/2 inches at 50 yards for 5 shots. Now that I know that I'm on the right track. I'll re-fire the 60 grain load as well as a 61 grain load for accuracy and over the chronograph for true velocity. Ejection is effortless indicating I'm still well within the parameters of the cartridge and rifle.

I normally refine my loads with 10 shot groups, but I think that with the recoil generated by this beast, I'll satisfy myself with 5 shot groups.

Next step is to order a shorter front sight in order to bring down the rear-bolt-mounted aperture sight to a less snagable height and to allow for some flexibility with different weight bullets.

[Freischütz]

I 've used the 250 gr Barnes made with copper jackets. The ogive was different than the 250 gr Winchester bullets, and required much deeper seating to not touch the rifling. Overall length was 2.700"

[Scharfschuetze]

I 've used the 250 gr Barnes made with copper jackets. The ogive was different than the 250 gr Winchester bullets, and required much deeper seating to not touch the rifling. Overall length was 2.700"

That's exactly my OAL with the Barnes projectile and it can be kerplunked into the chamber at that length. Great minds must think alike.

[quilbilly]

4895 was the powder I used when I had a 71. It was a wonderful elk cartridge for west of the Cascades. I still recall that first big cow tumbling end over end down the hill toward my car when it was hit out by Forks. Sadly, the rifle became so valuable that I was scared to take it out in the rain so traded it away. I kept a few of the cartridges as a memorial.

[Ramjet-SS]

The Model 71 348 is an excellent cartridge. THE most regrettable gun that got away was a model 71 Browning (Miruku) reproduction that I had the barrel cut and re-chambered to 348 Ack Improved..... Maybe the best most versitile hunting rifle with the exception of the 375 H&H!!!!!

[Scharfschuetze]

I finished up the 348 project at the range today with fairly good results.

The 60 grain load of H 4831 under the 250 grain Barnes bullet proved to be the best all around load for both ballistic uniformity and accuracy. Throughout the project, every 5 shot group suffered a flyer (Usually hitting high) and I just got used to it. It's either a fore end issue or perhaps the lot of bullets being used. I never did get it figured out.

Velocity came in at 2115 fps for 5 shot averages over the chronograph and accuracy went from fair to good to bad as I worked up and through the magic point of diminishing returns. With 60 grains of H 4831, 5 shot groups (less the persistent flyer) all hovered between 1 & 1/2 MOA to 3 MOA over a couple of range sessions. If recoil is any indication of what it should do to an elk, then it'll flat knock 'em down.

My experience with this old lever gun closely matches what Ken Waters reported in his "Pet Loads" article from July of 1976.

[smokeywolf]

Fancy grade and the old girl looks to be in fine shape. I'm looking forward your post showing the meat that you and this old Winchester put in your freezer.

[TXGunNut]

Congrats, looking forward to the field report. Thinking pretty seriously about taking an old Winchester afield this fall myself. Thanks for posting food for thought!

[Ramjet-SS]

That gun was made for harvesting Elk good luck and we look forward to the hunt report and pics.

[JFE]

I'm a bit late to the party but FWIW the load I developed for my Browning 71 was

250 gr Barnes FN
57.0 gr AR-2209 (= H-4350)
Rem 9.5M
OAL 2.78"

This load was accurate and developed 2295 fps from a 24" barrel. The load is not hot (it develops about the same case expansion as factory ammo) but as usual, work up from lower levels.

[starmac]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll start my range time today with the old Model 71 and its elk loads. I'm initially starting with H 4831 powder with a reduced starting load and working up.

Here is an interesting comparison. My loads with the 348 will use the 250 grain slug and a projected 60 grains of powder. My 30/30 is pretty happy with a 170 grain slug over right at 30 grains of powder. The 348 was a true magnum in its day.

And then they grew up and became a 50 Alaskan, the supermag of the day. lol

[Sgt Red Leg]

My Winchester M71 has been here about 18 or so years .... but I find myself running short of brass ..... anyone have a lead on new brass ????

[Scharfschuetze]

Not me. I looked around and did a few searches during my project, but with negative results.

[Bird]

Red Leg,
There are a couple of new bags on gunbroker right now.

[T.R.]

I sold my .348 in 1975 for $400. and bought a new Marlin 444 with 4X Redfield scope and 4 boxes of Remington ammo. Never looked back.

TR

[indian joe]

I got a Browning 71 in 1999 - I went to the Hornady manual and chose winchester 760 (I like the way it runs through a measure and its one of their top load choices) once I tested the load, bought a stash of powder and brass, figuring that this beastie would be difficult to feed in the future. I use 58 grains of 760 under the Hornady 200gr SP for an explosive load and 56 grains under a 220 grain gascheck for tougher stuff - the GC load clocks 2350 FPS over my RCBS chrony.

4831 seems a tad too slow for this case - 4895 better - (I'll stick with the 760 till I run it out)

[Good Cheer]

I've got the six cavity Lee C-350-225-FN to paper patch in the .35 Remington.
Got no idea how fast it will be able to be pushed but looking forwards to seeing what she'll do.
Gosh, hoping the mold throws big enough diameter boolits!