What to do about this flint pistol? (target pistol, flash hole extends into barrel)

[Whiterabbit]

I bought a target pistol. Supposedly a real winner. I'm still developing loads, but that's neither here nor there for now. There's a geometry issue:

It swabs and cleans funky, and I found out why when I inspected my ramrod and found the jag damaged, and a breech scraper wouldn't turn properly:

the flash hole liner sticks out into the bore about 25%. This creates a cleaning and swabbing nightmare.

The issue is this gun is supposed to be a turn key GTG target gun for 25 yard competition. So I am hesitant to just dive in and start cutting it up.

So my question is this:

1) what would you do in this situation?
2) anything I can do to effectively/efficiently swab and clean without removing/shortening the flash hole liner or modifying the pistol? i'm comfortable to do whatever via (custom) jags and ramrods.

[pietro]

Supposedly a real winner




I've long ago learned to buy the gun, and not the story.............

I would suggest adopting the K.I.SS. principal. ;)

A look should tell you if the vent liner is removeable, because if it is, there will be a screwdriver slot across the outside end of the vent, or the vent itself may accept an Allen wrench for removal.

Once it's out, just shorten the inner end on a grinding wheel & de-burr before re-installing it with an anti-seize compound on the threads.

.

[Whiterabbit]

Of course. My point is, that I am hesitant to do so because it was supposed to be a turnkey target ready pistol. Supposedly won a couple competition seasons. I'd have to change the ignition characteristics or some other factor of the secret sauce by back grinding the vent liner.

For the record, the vent liner is definitely removable and absolutely straightforward to pull and backgrind.

I write the post and ask the questions because I am questioning whether you think it is a good idea to do so based on the pistol's pedigree.

[TCLouis]

You might just try shooting it as is, and see what the target tells you!

[Whiterabbit]

You might just try shooting it as is, and see what the target tells you!

OK, let's say it shoots great. swabbing is impossible, damaged jags will be a constant risk if I use off the shelf loading and cleaning jags, and cleaning below the flash hole liner is essentially not possible. THAT is why I'm posting here. Make a custom jag? risk hurting the current performance of the pistol? stop worrying about cleaning nd swabbing behind the flash hole liner? What would you do?

[rfd]

just WHAT gun is this thing?

no matter, this one's a no-brainer - if the the touch hole liner extends into the chamber, that's a huge mistake that needs to get fixed, or return the gun. period.

from your above description, it sounds like a flat faced breech plug, not a patent plug with flue. can you pull the plug so that you can see into the chamber/barrel and assess how far out the liner sticks into the chamber?

[Sasquatch-1]

Why not just order another liner fit it properly to the gun and see how it works. If it works ok great, if not put the old one back in.

[rfd]

WHO made this gun?

if the breech is flat faced and the liner extends into the chamber, that is just WRONG.

how far from the plug face is the vent hole?

good images would really help here ...

[curator]

Whiterabbit:

If the touch hole liner can be removed, take it out and trim it so it does not protrude into the barrel/bore. Having it stick out internally is unacceptable. Some liners are not made with the ability to remove once installed. In that case, use an "easy-out" to remove the old one and fit one the correct length. I prefer Ampco bronze touch hole liners that can be removed easily (screw-driver slot) This really comes in handy when you load a ball without powder. Cleaning is easier too.

[square butte]

If you can remove the breach its a simple fix. If the liner is coned from the inside like a Chambers "white lightening" - You can use a dremel tool with a small ball grinder ( and a steady hand - tool set to a lower rpm )to remove that portion that extends into the bore. If it's not coned you can use one of Tom Snyder's internal coning tools. It's inserted through the bore ( with a shaft that passes through the vent hole and is threaded into the cotter head )and can be used with a hand drill on low speed.

[bedbugbilly]

Sasquatch offers the easiest solution. Vent liners aren't that expensive - order one from T of the W and switch them out and see what happens. If your pistol is such a fantastic shooter . . I would think it would be worth under $5.00 for a new vent to try it and see. If it were mine, I would take the existing one out and file the back side down until it fits correctly. It should not be extending into the bore - it will only be a "catcher" for fouling and possibly an ember.

This really isn't such a "conundrum" as you are attempting to make it be. This is no different than an improperly fitted nipple installed on a side slap mule ear lock gun or an under hammer where the apple is too long and extends into the bore. It not only will prevent the jag/patch from reaching the breech but it will act as a fouling catcher, that over time, will promote corrosion/rust on the inside of the bore because you can't get it cleaned as it should be.

As far as being a "turn key gun GTG" . . . whatever that is supposed to mean . . . I am assuming that this is a "production gun"? That information and just what the gun is would help. This isn't the first time I have heard of this issue. A while back, there was a spot on another forum about the same thing . . . unless it was yours? I believe it revolved around a Pedersoli. If it was a custom made gun . . then I would be contacting the maker or the previous owner to see why the vent is extending into the bore. Perhaps the seller installed a new one before he sold it and didn't "fit" the vent. If it is a "production" gun . . . it wouldn't really surprise me. On custom rifles I have built in years past, I don't think I ever made one that I didn't have to fit the vent to the barrel. On "production" guns that I have purchased . . . it is rare not to have to "tweak" things a little.

[rbuck351]

Pull the touch hole liner before you clean it then put it back in.

[Whiterabbit]

Pull the touch hole liner before you clean it then put it back in.

May have to do that. Hopefully it comes out easy.



As far as being a "turn key gun GTG" . . . whatever that is supposed to mean . . . I am assuming that this is a "production gun"? That information and just what the gun is would help.

Custom that was used by 2x different people in 2x different past years for monthly shoots with the understanding both performed very well annually when using this pistol. The purpose in the statement is to suggest that theoretically, folks better than I have won competitions with this pistol, as it is.

Usually when I am taking something apart to modify it is because there's an issue (that affects accuracy) and I'm fixing that.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah, trim a new one. Keep the flash hole liner you have in the as-received condition.
Hey, are you gonna post a picture of your piece?

[Good Cheer]

I thought I was making a new thread and it ended up here.
Gonna go try again.

[Whiterabbit]

Yeah, trim a new one. Keep the flash hole liner you have in the as-received condition.
Hey, are you gonna post a picture of your piece?

Sure, let me get home. I'm 2 weeks into a 3 week business trip in Asia. TOTW sells flash hole liners? I assume they are standard threads, so I just pop the old one out, caliper the OD (close enough), use a pitch gage on the threads, then order whats on Track?

[Good Cheer]

Oughta work. Do you have a set of thread gauges?
There won't be much length there to count threads on.

[Whiterabbit]

standard and metric, yes.