Exhibition finish on Bastogne Walnut stocks

[Tnfalconer]

Ok guys and dolls, in the process of building guns for a number of years the one thing I have always been deficient on was stock refinishing. I always sent it out to someone who had dedicated more time to it than I ever did. I am stripping and scratch building a ruger number 1 for my next custom project. I have selected an extra fancy set of Bastogne walnut replacement stocks for it. While I am thoroughly versed in making the finish "Nice enough", I know there are some secrets to getting that crystal clear, inch deep finish on exhibition grade wood that I am lacking. Help me out here, tell me some of your processes and materials to make a set of stocks that will knock your eyes out.

In this particular case I will also be doing a "European" style stippling job on the stock instead of checkering. I much prefer it in the grip department. The looks can also be super. If someone can help with my finishing questions, I will share some of my stippling tips. Thanks in advance guys.

[pietro]

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The glossiest/deepest finish I've gotten was using Lin-Speed oil, but about the same finish can be achieved using Tru-Oil.

The key to that kind of finish is having enough patience to do an extreme polishing of the wood, before filling the wood pores completely via applying as many thin coats of the finish as it takes for a particular stock.

When I apply a coat of stock finish, I dip a single fingertip into the oil, and start applying that single dollop of oil to the wood in a very small area (about the size of a US Quarter coin), rubbing back/forth & in a circular motion, gradually expanding that area to an area about the size of a US paper dollar bill - rubbing the finger into the wood until I can feel the "squeak" of drying oil under my fingertip - then moving on to the next/adjacent area to do the same thing, until the entire stock has one coat of finish.

That's when the patience comes in - I hang the stock overnight (at least 12 hours) in a dust-free box I've made (it has a cloth covering the open side of the box) for each coating of stock finish/oil.

When I remove the stock from the box the next day, before applying another coat of stock finish as described above, I rub the stock down to bare wood with a new pad of 0000 steel wool, cleaning the wood afterward with first a tack rag, and then a magnet (to remove any invisible steel dust).

(a NEW pad of 0000 steel wool should be used for each coat)

Since each piece of wood is different, I repeat the coating & cutting back, etc, steps until the wet stock has NO dimpling over the wood pores; then I cut the finish back one more time, leaving that coat alone for a satin sheen.

If a glossier finish is desired, another very thin coat of oil can be applied, dried, then not cut back.

With either the satin or gloss finish, I wait about a week before applying a coat of a good paste wax (like Johnson & Johnson Paste Wax), buffing it out after the wax dries.

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[Tnfalconer]

To what grit sandpaper would you cut the stock down before beginning linseed oil treatment?

[Frank46]

I normally end up at 600 grit wet or dry silicon carbide paper. Then get the lood grit and whiskers off with 4/0 (0000) steel wool. If you have a buffer or polishing set up for barrels and parts try using a unused wheel and no polish to further smooth the wood. I tried this on a fajen stock that was inletted for a model 54 carbine setup in 30-30. If you are careful it will really polish the wood. My motor is an old fan motor 1/3 hp at 1750 rpm. The smoother the wood is you will end up getting a beautiful smooth finish with either tru oil or lin speed. Frank

[Tnfalconer]

I still can't believe no one recommended something fancier than linseed or tru oil. I had in my mind that the hand rubbed goodness I was after was only to be found with some of the tung oils.

[gnoahhh]

First off, what is the end use going to be? Safe queen or used regularly in the field? Oil finishes offer poor weather resistance but look sweet. Barrier finishes offer good weather resistance and look sweet also.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

First off, what is the end use going to be? Safe queen or used regularly in the field? Oil finishes offer poor weather resistance but look sweet. Barrier finishes offer good weather resistance and look sweet also.

This is an important point. If it is purely an exhibition or gloating piece, nothing gives a better shine or lustre and better display of the true colour of the wood, than innumerable coats of cellulose or acrylic lacquer, finally polished polished to your choice of lustre. But they will be miserably prone to scratches in use, and can't be touched up like the oil finishes. The oils actually resist wetting quite well, when properly cured and polished, but they do permit the absorption of atmospheric humidity - which is no bad thing really. Of the non-proprietary oils, tung resists discolouring with age better, but many don't like the texture as much as linseed.

[Tnfalconer]

This is an important point. If it is purely an exhibition or gloating piece, nothing gives a better shine or lustre and better display of the true colour of the wood, than innumerable coats of cellulose or acrylic lacquer, finally polished polished to your choice of lustre. But they will be miserably prone to scratches in use, and can't be touched up like the oil finishes. The oils actually resist wetting quite well, when properly cured and polished, but they do permit the absorption of atmospheric humidity - which is no bad thing really. Of the non-proprietary oils, tung resists discolouring with age better, but many don't like the texture as much as linseed.


I am building this rifle for myself, so it will see plenty of use. Not sure how much hunting I will do with it but it will see plenty of range time and match time.

[fecmech]

I've done a few O/U's with a product from Brownells. Gunsaver makes it and it's a mix of tung oil and polyurethane and it's really a pleasure to work with, called Pro Custom Oil.

[Tnfalconer]

I was just looking at that finish on brownells website! I am also considering a "KIT" from the UK that has a five or six stage process involving oils with color tannins added to deepen the color of the figure in the stock. I really want a "High polish" European style finish on this rifle that will stand up to a good amount of use. That Pro custom oil might be the ticket, have you done any repairs with it as far as fixing scratches or nicks after application?

[gnoahhh]

If that's your goal, then that's good enough! First fill the pores. Some advocate filling with a sanding slurry of oil and the dust generated as it is sanded wet. All well and good, but you run the risk of the compound shrinking with time leaving a slightly cratered surface down the road. Plus, if you get caught out in a driving rain storm there is nothing worse than watching the stuff wash out of the pores. That happened to me twice- once with TruOil, the second time with Linspeed. At that point I swore off of that stuff .

There is no more permanent way to fill the pores than by using either epoxy (best) or varnish. Slather it on, sand back to bare wood. Repeat until all pores are filled, then proceed with whatever oil finish you are using.

You can create your own oil finish by using either pure tung oil or artists grade linseed oil and mixing 50/50 with spar varnish. Dilute with a couple drops of mineral spirits to thin the viscosity, or not. Only mix up enough to do each coat. Wipe on a generous amount until wood stops sucking it in, let stand a couple minutes, wipe off. Let dry overnight. Rub out with 600x between coats. Only a couple coats are needed- any more won't soak into the wood. (You're going for a finish in the wood not on it.) Finally wax it with a good paste wax (not the Birchwood Casey liquid crud) to provide a luster as well as a modicum of moisture barrier. Done.

[fecmech]

have you done any repairs with it as far as fixing scratches or nicks after application?
I have not but I think it would blend well as it levels nicely. Gnoahhh's advice is excellent and if I do any future stocks I had planned to try the spar varnish/tung oil mix he recommended.

[pietro]

I still can't believe no one recommended something fancier than linseed or tru oil.

I had in my mind that the hand rubbed goodness I was after was only to be found with some of the tung oils.




Like many other things, it's not what you have - it's what you do with it. ;)


.

[Tnfalconer]

sounds like a good method to me too.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I was just looking at that finish on brownells website! I am also considering a "KIT" from the UK that has a five or six stage process involving oils with color tannins added to deepen the color of the figure in the stock. I really want a "High polish" European style finish on this rifle that will stand up to a good amount of use. That Pro custom oil might be the ticket, have you done any repairs with it as far as fixing scratches or nicks after application?

Much as I would like to advance British business, I don't know how colour tannins work, and this gun sounds a bit too important to use something untried on. The use of "red oil" is well documented and traditional. You can buy the alkanet root chips on eBay (the deep red kind, for there are others), and soak it in about as little oil as will cover it, for several months. If you are in a hurry hot but not boiling oil will absorb it usefully, but the oil is inflammable, so do it outdoors, and not to boiling point.

Filling the pores is good advice, and I would prefer varnish to epoxy because it is easier to rub down any surface area which would make the finished colour uneven. It can be thickened with an easily abraded mineral filler powder, and no doubt someone will sell one to you for several times the price of talcum powder, which is exactly as good.

Some factory stocks are finished with epoxy lacquer, which is probably the best of all at resisting wear, but the worst of all for retouching if something happens. I think the advice you have had on oil finishes is probably the best for your requirements.

[Tnfalconer]

This is likely the most expensive set of stocks I have ever fitted to a rifle so you can understand my desire to do it right. I'm not in a rush at all. This will be a slower project. I don't have a time frame on it and I also don' have a budget. I just want it the way that I want it, no matter how long that takes. There is also a very old school process of finish sanding the stocks and soaking them in oil for a week or more that was recommended by another gunsmith friend. Not sure how that is more efficient than the application of a good oil repeatedly over time.

[RPRNY]

The key to a final finish that will do the wood justice is the steel wool phase. After the 600 grit paper stage, spending way more time than you thinking it can possibly merit with the steel wool is absolutely critical. Then you need to decide on a stain. Minwax are very good despite being as commercial as can be.

Unless you can get a seasoned stock finisher to share his formula for a mix of oils and waxes, Tru-Oil will be your best bet for a finish. Boiled Linseed works well but finding a true boiled Linseed is harder than you think. But the key to it working well is very, very thin layers, allowed to dry to absolute hardness on each application, followed by a manic detailing with steel wool. If you want the finish it sounds like you do, you need to think of the finishing process in terms of weeks - as in 3 - 5. A very thin layer of Tru-Oil, followed by 48 hours of drying and several hours of steel wool - another 3 - 5 hours of sitting after the steel wool to let the finish settle again, rub clean with a dry chamois cloth, and another very thin layer of oil - 48 hours drying, steel wool. Repeat.

The most important ingredient in stock finishing is patience.

[John Boy]

I know there are some secrets to getting that crystal clear, inch deep finish on exhibition grade wood that I am lacking. Help me out here, tell me some of your processes and materials to make a set of stocks that will knock your eyes out. Fifteen coats of hand rubbed boiled Linseed Oil!
Did a Remington M12 22 caliber pump - the finished product looked like glass!

[Tnfalconer]

The key to a final finish that will do the wood justice is the steel wool phase. After the 600 grit paper stage, spending way more time than you thinking it can possibly merit with the steel wool is absolutely critical. Then you need to decide on a stain. Minwax are very good despite being as commercial as can be.

Unless you can get a seasoned stock finisher to share his formula for a mix of oils and waxes, Tru-Oil will be your best bet for a finish. Boiled Linseed works well but finding a true boiled Linseed is harder than you think. But the key to it working well is very, very thin layers, allowed to dry to absolute hardness on each application, followed by a manic detailing with steel wool. If you want the finish it sounds like you do, you need to think of the finishing process in terms of weeks - as in 3 - 5. A very thin layer of Tru-Oil, followed by 48 hours of drying and several hours of steel wool - another 3 - 5 hours of sitting after the steel wool to let the finish settle again, rub clean with a dry chamois cloth, and another very thin layer of oil - 48 hours drying, steel wool. Repeat.

The most important ingredient in stock finishing is patience.



This rifle will be a test of my patience for sure! My stocks are about three weeks out from delivery right now so, this is all preparation for when they arrive. I am sincerely hoping I can take my time and not get in any shape of a hurry with it. The matches I intend to shoot will be over soon, so I have all winter to get it perfect. I have never worked with Bastogne walnut at least not this much of it. The stocks are o the Scheutzen/ stevens design and have multiple compound curves that will take lots of hand finishing to get "Right". With all that in mind I intend to make this the show piece of my safe as I move forward. So as I sit here typing thinking about it, mind racing, that is the hardest part....waiting. I want to decide on a solution for finishing and have the materials ordered and sitting here upon arrival of the wood.

[Sur-shot]

I use Pro Custom Oil with a sanded in finish on my stocks, all of them, and have done so for about 30 years now. I never touch a stock with steel wool, the fine particles of steel stay in the wood pores. I live in a very humid environment and a polished gem stone looking finish may take me 4 months or so to achieve. This is a L) Bastogne C) English and R) Claro stock so treated with different finishes, gloss, satin and a medium tone.

If you would like instructions on the sanded in finish, drop me a note and I will send you the article I wrote about the process. It is all done by hand after you get past the dry sanding of the raw wood.
Ed

172742172743172744

[M-Tecs]

I use Pro Custom Oil with a sanded in finish on my stocks, all of them, and have done so for about 30 years now. I never touch a stock with steel wool, the fine particles of steel stay in the wood pores. I live in a very humid environment and a polished gem stone looking finish may take me 4 months or so to achieve. This is a L) Bastogne C) English and R) Claro stock so treated with different finishes, gloss, satin and a medium tone.

If you would like instructions on the sanded in finish, drop me a note and I will send you the article I wrote about the process. It is all done by hand after you get past the dry sanding of the raw wood.
Ed

172742172743172744

Very nice. PM sent with email address for article. Thanks!!!!!!

[fecmech]

I use Pro Custom Oil with a sanded in finish on my stocks
Sounds like we may have similar methods Sure-shot. I hand rub the Procustom into the stock with a nitrile glove on my hand. When I feel the glove starting to drag on the finish I set it aside to dry. After it dries I wet sand between coats with 600 wet/dry paper until surface is glass smooth. Then one final coat wet sanded with 1500 grit wet/dry and rubbed out with clear coat polishing compound for a high gloss finish. I never liked the idea of steel wool either.

[22cf45]

I generally use ProCustom oil for guns which will be used to hunt a lot and have never been disappointed with the results. I can vary from very low luster to very high shine depending on the number of coats I end up with. I can describe the procedure if you desire. I never use steel wool for the reasons previously mentioned. In fact, I don't even like to rub out a stock with pumice stone or rottenstone since I feel all abrasives leave scratches, however small, that catch the light and hide a lot of the natural beauty of the wood.

When I am doing a show stopper, I use polymerized tung oil to start, then shellac for the depth you are seeking, then end up again with the polymerized tung oil. Unless, someone is interested and requests the details on the procedure, I won't bore you with it now.
Phil

[Tnfalconer]

I generally use ProCustom oil for guns which will be used to hunt a lot and have never been disappointed with the results. I can vary from very low luster to very high shine depending on the number of coats I end up with. I can describe the procedure if you desire. I never use steel wool for the reasons previously mentioned. In fact, I don't even like to rub out a stock with pumice stone or rottenstone since I feel all abrasives leave scratches, however small, that catch the light and hide a lot of the natural beauty of the wood.

When I am doing a show stopper, I use polymerized tung oil to start, then shellac for the depth you are seeking, then end up again with the polymerized tung oil. Unless, someone is interested and requests the details on the procedure, I won't bore you with it now.
Phil


PM SENT! Tell me more good sir...

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It is worth mentioning that you can't make raw linseed oil into boiled just by boiling it. Commercial boiled oil contains chemical driers. It is also a bad idea to immerse a stock in oil. This was often done with military stocks, with which extreme weather resistance is a priority, and the soldier's artistic instinct isn't. The oil will keep oozing from the interior to the surface forever if not longer, maybe not enough to look liquid, but enough to stop it ever becoming hard enough to take a polish.

[Tnfalconer]

Just got an email from the stock maker, should ship this week. Three weeks earlier than promised. Now we're talking.

[Tnfalconer]

Lots of good information on refinishing an exhibition stock, thanks for all the help guys. I will be going with polymerized tung with this stock finish. Order is placed and should be here about the same time as the stock I am guessing. I'll post pictures the steps here so that others can follow.

[Tnfalconer]

Just received the stocks from CPA and they do not disappoint. What a fine piece of wood, the pictures do no justice to them at all. Heavily marbled and figured Bastogne walnut. Just gorgeous and they are only roughed in. I have plenty of wok to do to them before starting the finishing process but I just wanted to document where we were. I am in deep lust with this piece of wood.


174508

[Rick Hodges]

Just received the stocks from CPA and they do not disappoint. What a fine piece of wood, the pictures do no justice to them at all. Heavily marbled and figured Bastogne walnut. Just gorgeous and they are only roughed in. I have plenty of wok to do to them before starting the finishing process but I just wanted to document where we were. I am in deep lust with this piece of wood.


174508

Very nice, I love Bastogne Walnut.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Those will come out looking pretty nice just about no matter what you do to them. I personally am a big fan of the Truoil and ma doing a set of stocks for a Stevens 311 which were made of Birch. It has about as much grain showing as notebook paper but I am now into the Truoil 4 coats and I will be sanding it down after this next coat dries.

I slop it on with a paper towel with the intention of plugging all the holes as fast as possible. This process has worked for me in the past.

AS soon as I get the holes pretty much all filled I start sanding with 400,600,800 grit WoD until all the high spots are faired in.

Then very thin coats until I am sure all holes are filled and then build up the finish a little more. When the surface is smooth and all sanding marks are gone the very last coat is Treewax applied with 0000 steel wool and buffed with a terry cloth towel.

Not exhibition grade but way better than a piece birch deserves.

The stock on my shotgun over on the stippling thread was that Brownell's Oil/Polymer stuff and it has a slight satin finish. Perfect for a working shotgun. It was done from a spray can! and came out perfect.

Randy

[Tnfalconer]

I ordered some of that polymerized tung oil to use on them. Right now I am working on fitting them to the receiver but I have been busier with a one armed paper hanger. I am looking for perfection in the fit to the receiver first. Then I'll move into finish. I really don't want to make too many mistakes on these.

[W.R.Buchanan]

One of the reasons why custom guns cost so much is because of the time it takes to make them. A lot of that time is ate up in thinking about what you are going to do next,,, which usually takes more time than actually doing it.

Taking your time on a project like this comes under the heading of "Attention to Detail," but the "Personal Responsibility" is the part that really needs to be there as it is what doesn't let you settle for second rate.

Randy

[Tnfalconer]

One of the reasons why custom guns cost so much is because of the time it takes to make them. A lot of that time is ate up in thinking about what you are going to do next,,, which usually takes more time than actually doing it.

Taking your time on a project like this comes under the heading of "Attention to Detail," but the "Personal Responsibility" is the part that really needs to be there as it is what doesn't let you settle for second rate.

Randy

Yup, I am wanting the fit to be perfection. That takes a good amount of time and sweat to get, it doesn't just happen. Then after all that, I still have to bed the aluminum block in the forearm before fitting it and I haven't even made the block yet! Time time time time time.....