.45 Colt New Model Blackhawk Shooting Low

[cpaspr]

Technically, it's a .45 Colt / .45 ACP Convertible, but this pertains to when the .45 Colt cylinder is installed.

The cylinder throats have been fixed (thanks again to DougGuy) and it shoots great. It just shoots consistently low. 262gr Keith SWC (Lyman 454424) with 17gr of 2400 or 235gr WC (Lyman 454309) with 7.5gr Unique, both shoot low. About 3" at 12.5 yards. I have the rear sight blade up as high as it will go. I called Ruger yesterday and they said I could send it in. Um, no. They'd toss my fixed cylinders and put defective ones back in, and I'm pretty sure the cylinders are not the problem.

Brownell's sells a "tall" rear sight blade, but someone asked a question about how tall it is. The answer was .196". Laying a micrometer next to mine while still installed it looks like that's what is already installed. I got approximately .200" eyeballing it.

I'm thinking of removing the rear sight blade and trying to clone a taller version. Is this a good idea? Or does someone already make one? Or is there another, easier fix you guys know of? I've read of possibly lowering the charge on the 2400 to about 15gr, to give the bullets more dwell time in the barrel, to allow the barrel to rise more in recoil before the bullet exits. Of course, I've also had a higher charge suggested, in order to create a greater recoil pulse thereby raising the barrel sooner. I'm not real fond of that particular suggestion. The 17gr load is already a handful, especially with the abrasive factory grips.

[DougGuy]

Actually that gun is telling you to use a heavier boolit. As you go up in weight, POI will go up as well.

You can measure your front sight height and do some searches and maybe come up with what Ruger installed on the different barrel lengths because they are different in height for each barrel length in the same gun. Afaik, they put the tallest front sights on the shorter barrels.

There is also a guy who makes and sells a ghost ring rear sight blade that might get you some height, and from what I hear, it is a real neat rear sight and works good.

http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/ohs-ruger.html

[Deep Six]

Or file the front sight down some

[cpaspr]

Or file the front sight down some Not happening. Replace the front sight? Possibly. File the front sight? No way. I've seen enough Bubba'd guns, I'll not be creating another.

[tdoyka]

Actually that gun is telling you to use a heavier boolit. As you go up in weight, POI will go up as well.

You can measure your front sight height and do some searches and maybe come up with what Ruger installed on the different barrel lengths because they are different in height for each barrel length in the same gun. Afaik, they put the tallest front sights on the shorter barrels.

There is also a guy who makes and sells a ghost ring rear sight blade that might get you some height, and from what I hear, it is a real neat rear sight and works good.

http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/ohs-ruger.html


i've had warren's one hole rear sight in my 44 mag in ruger srh(7.5" barrel) and it worked great. i should have taken it off and put the original sight back on when i traded it. it comes with two sights, one for near(25yards and under) and the other for far(25yards+), i have the far sight. i might put it on my ruger sbh(4 5/8") in 44 mag, but i have to see if the orignal is good enough.

the one hole sight is well worth the money.

[shoot-n-lead]

Not happening. Replace the front sight? Possibly. File the front sight? No way. I've seen enough Bubba'd guns, I'll not be creating another.

He said "file" the sight...he didn't say "Bubba" the sight.

I have 6 fixed sighted guns that I will challenge you to tell which have been filed and which have not.

Of course...if ya' don't know these things, ya' just don't know....can't hold that against you.

[High Desert Hunter]

You definitely don't need a taller front sight! If that is the bullet weight for you, then you need to look into a shorter front sight to bring your POI up.

[Char-Gar]

Here is what you need. It will solve your problem. They are out of stock, but you might trying ordering from Ruger direct.

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/sights/rear-sights/sight-blade-rear-high-white-outline-prod12246.aspx

[KMac]

Can't he just take a file to the front sight till it raises the bullet trajectory?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deep Six]

Not happening. Replace the front sight? Possibly. File the front sight? No way. I've seen enough Bubba'd guns, I'll not be creating another.

I didn't say bubba it. File it down until POI is where you want, then profile it to the desired shape, then polish and blue it to match. Done correctly it will look like it came from Ruger that way.

[35remington]

No need to fear filing the front sight. Methinks you are making way too much of it.

[376Steyr]

I assume the OP has a blued version, with the front sight integral to the ramp on the barrel. I'd hesitate to file on it too, especially if I had plans to brew up some "Ruger Only" thumpers to go along with the lower-powered loads he is using now. I have a New Vaquero .45 Colt that hits 6" low at 25 yards, and way to the left for me, so I feel his pain.

[35remington]

Since impact primarily is based on bullet weight, there is no need to fear a few file strokes. This is how it is done.

Since refusal to let Ruger have it has backed the OP into a corner, this is the reasonable option. Just what is it that is feared? Take a bunch of ammo and go slow with the filing. What skill set is needed to file?

Overactive imaginations abound here.

Two words: cold blue.

[35remington]

And BTW, hitting low is considered the ideal situation as it is easily remedied by the fixed sight user that does not have interchangeable blades or adjustable rear sights. I for one am delighted when, if a pistol does not shoot to the sights, a pistol hits low.

Why? Because it's the easiest point of impact divergence to fix. Dead simple.

[needausername]

Technically, it's a .45 Colt / .45 ACP Convertible, but this pertains to when the .45 Colt cylinder is installed.


Just curious, does this happen with the 45 ACP cylinder installed? Have you fully removed the rear sight to make sure there's no debris keeping it from lowering any further?

[slughammer]

"I'm thinking of removing the rear sight blade and trying to clone a taller version. Is this a good idea? Or does someone already make one? Or is there another, easier fix you guys know of?"

I don't see an issue making a new sight blade for a Ruger. They are stamped sheetmetal, start now and with a little file work you can have a new sight tonight.

I would measure the gap under the rear sight and plan on adding enough extra to take away half of that.

[Deep Six]

I'd hesitate to file on it too, especially if I had plans to brew up some "Ruger Only" thumpers to go along with the lower-powered loads he is using now.

Why not? You're discounting the fact that he has an adjustable rear sight. File the front sight to achieve POI with the rear sight all the way up using the lighter loads. Then if he wants to run Ruger-only loads, simply adjust the rear sight down as needed.

[cpaspr]

Here is what you need. It will solve your problem. They are out of stock, but you might trying ordering from Ruger direct.

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/sights/rear-sights/sight-blade-rear-high-white-outline-prod12246.aspx

That's the replacement I referred to in the original post. One of the questions on the Q&A (though the link is not working at the moment) was "how tall is it" or some such wording. The answer was .196". That's how tall my current sight is, so the only thing that would add is a white outline.

[cpaspr]

Just curious, does this happen with the 45 ACP cylinder installed? Have you fully removed the rear sight to make sure there's no debris keeping it from lowering any further?

Not lowering, raising. As the rear sight goes up, you have to raise the front sight to regain alignment, thereby raising POI.

[cpaspr]

I didn't say bubba it. File it down until POI is where you want, then profile it to the desired shape, then polish and blue it to match. Done correctly it will look like it came from Ruger that way.

That's the part I'm afraid of. I've never done it before, and knowing my skillset with files as I do, I would screw it up royally.

I'll try the "make my own" rear sight blade first. That's the least permanent change. Now to find some proper thickness metal.

If that doesn't work, I'll consider the filing.

[cpaspr]

I assume the OP has a blued version, with the front sight integral to the ramp on the barrel. I do.


I'd hesitate to file on it too, especially if I had plans to brew up some "Ruger Only" thumpers to go along with the lower-powered loads he is using now. Lower powered? Alliant shows a max load of 15.4 under a 250gr LSWC. My bullets are only a little heavier than that at 262gr, but my powder charge is 10% higher than their max. And that's a "lower powered" load?

[bedbugbilly]

Is that the only boolit/load you are ever going to shoot from it? If so, then adjust your front sight - either file it or replace it. If you are going to shoot other boolit weights/loads and switch the cylinder out for the 45 ACP and shot those . . . then learn your gun and where it shoots for the boolit/load you are shooting. i.e. . . if you are hitting low with that particular load, then adjust your POA higher to compensate for the drop. I don't have a BH but I do have and shoot a lot of SAA revolvers with nothing but a front blade and a grooved top strap. I don't always shoot the same boolit/load from any of them and adjusting the POA for each one is part of the process . . . with a little "Kentucky windage" added in once in a while.

Once you change your front sight height - either by replacing or filing - what are you going to do when you don't always shoot the same load? How will you adjust your POA to POI then?

[DougGuy]

In a full house Ruger low POI is a good thing with 255gr boolits. I'm thinking the OP simply needs to add boolit weight to lengthen dwell time. Slowing the boolit will also work to the point where groups begin to open dramatically.

[35remington]

Are not the vast majority of handguns equipped with fixed sights?

Do you think all those guys with Glocks spend hours agonizing over them? They do not. I didn't cry in my beer when my inexpensive Rossi .38 hit left and low. I went after it with a safe edged file that cuts on the flats but not the edges. Now 148 WC's hit where I want them. No other recourse was possible.

It is simple, really. Target a particular weight range that has a variety of potential bullet shapes...say 255 to 275 grains in SWC, RNFP, WFN, LFN, or whatever floats your boat. Load a bunch of them, more than you think you'll need three times over. Go to the range. File carefully and slowly, being sure to hold the handgun in the way you customarily hold it.

No butt on sandbags in other words, as this alters how the gun hits versus a normal offhand stance. Shoot at both close and longer ranges approximating anticipated use to make sure you have it correctly assessed as to point of impact both before alteration and after. Proceed slowly and carefully. Make sure you know what you think you know.

Then get to work. Voodoo it ain't. If replacing disc brake pads is a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of difficulty in repairs, this would be about a 0.5. There's nothing to screw up if you go SLOW. If you haven't fully adjusted the impact in one range session because you're extra cautious, so what? You'll get it next time and you'll be certain of the correctness of your actions.

Who said shooting groups with a gun was work anyway? Does anyone over the age of ten regard using a file as difficult?

[Whiterabbit]

Does anyone over the age of ten regard using a file as difficult?

I am over the age of 10. I thought using a file was easy till I started amateur gunsmithing. I've said for years now: "If I ever write a book about amateur gunsmithing, I will title the book: 'Gunsmithing: how I learned how to use a file'"

Or in short, gunsmithing taught me just how difficult it is to use a file.

Don't get me wrong, we are talking about a gun here with an aluminum front sight that costs less than 10 dollars held on with a screw. yes? Take a file to it! Order a new one from brownells in parallel.

Be done with it and get your POI where it needs to be!

[cpaspr]

Are not the vast majority of handguns equipped with fixed sights? Never thought about it, but you're probably right.


Do you think all those guys with Glocks spend hours agonizing over them? They do not. But they probably should. Poor, soul-less guns that they are. (Remember, this is a wheelgun thread.) :bigsmyl2:


Who said shooting groups with a gun was work anyway? Does anyone over the age of ten regard using a file as difficult? Can't say about the file being difficult, but generally, the worst day shooting, even if just shooting for groups, is still better than an awful lot of days working.

[cpaspr]

Don't get me wrong, we are talking about a gun here with an aluminum front sight that costs less than 10 dollars held on with a screw. yes? Take a file to it! Order a new one from brownells in parallel.


Actually, no. I don't know how that front sight is held on, but it isn't with a screw. Nor a dovetail.

[Deep Six]

Since his gun is blued, the front sight ramp and blade are machined from a solid piece of steel and silver soldered to the barrel before bluing.

Ruger has a few different height blades for the blued guns and that's probably what they were planning on doing when they said "send it back". Since the OP doesn't want to send it back, he has three options: 1) taller rear sight, 2) shorter front sight, or 3) heavier bullet or possibly less charge

[35remington]

Filing a blade front sight isn't a challenge for a ten year old. That was the point, not filing other parts.

Since the OP doesn't want to send it back and the blade is fixed, with the rear sight being a notch in the frame that cannot be raised, filing the front sight is the corner he has backed himself into.

He has already claimed heavy bullets hit low as well. Extremely heavy bullets limit options and ban one from using more appropriate weights

Afraid it's file or live with it and nothing else.

[Deep Six]

It's a blackhawk, so it has an adjustable rear sight. He could make a taller rear blade. Personally I think filing a bit off the front is far easier.

[35remington]

Sorry missed the part where it was a Blackhawk. By all means get a higher rear blade for the rear sight.

[Char-Gar]

In a full house Ruger low POI is a good thing with 255gr boolits. I'm thinking the OP simply needs to add boolit weight to lengthen dwell time. Slowing the boolit will also work to the point where groups begin to open dramatically.

Sometimes we don't want to add bullet weight. Perhaps we want to use the molds we have or don't want the extra recoil. Case in point is my Ruger Flattop 45 (Lipseys). It comes with a front sight for 300 grain bullets and to use my preferred 250 grain bullets require more adjustment that the rear sight has. I changed out the standard rear sight blade for the taller one and now I have plenty of adjustment to zero my pistol.

I did not want to use heavy bullets and I did not want to file on my front sight. Changing the rear sight blade is ALLOT easier than filing on the front sight. It takes about a minute maybe two.

[376Steyr]

I do.

Lower powered? Alliant shows a max load of 15.4 under a 250gr LSWC. My bullets are only a little heavier than that at 262gr, but my powder charge is 10% higher than their max. And that's a "lower powered" load?

Oops. I was looking at the 235 gr with 7.5 Unique, which is lower than the 250 SWC with 9.0 Unique that is commonly seen.

Can you have somebody else shoot some groups for you? I'd be curious to see if the sights are off for other people, or if your personal grip and eyesight are the cause.

As for "it's simple, just file it" work, the other day I had to pass on a deal for S&W M67 which had been attacked on both front and rear sights with a coarse file. Sad!

[35remington]

Just filing it works great when it is a fixed sight revolver. If there are other options pursue those first.

Interesting how others feel that if someone else is inept, they're gonna be inept too. Inferiority complex run amok?

[cpaspr]

Well, good news. This morning I loaded up 6 rounds with my 262gr SWC over 15gr of 2400. Took them and the gun to the range after work. The very first round was dead center in the bullseye. Of the next five, I threw one, but the other four were all clustered around the first one.

So, I have a load that will shoot to POA with the rear sight elevated all the way!

Now, I can (and may) still make a new rear sight leaf, so I can have some adjustment available when shooting .45LC, or, skip it and work on developing loads for the .45ACP cylinder that will shoot POA at the current rear sight height.

I'm happy! :bigsmyl2:

[Char-Gar]

Well, good news. This morning I loaded up 6 rounds with my 262gr SWC over 15gr of 2400. Took them and the gun to the range after work. The very first round was dead center in the bullseye. Of the next five, I threw one, but the other four were all clustered around the first one.

So, I have a load that will shoot to POA with the rear sight elevated all the way!

Now, I can (and may) still make a new rear sight leaf, so I can have some adjustment available when shooting .45LC, or, skip it and work on developing loads for the .45ACP cylinder that will shoot POA at the current rear sight height.

I'm happy! :bigsmyl2:

When a handgun starts it recoil arc upward, the bullet is still in the barrel. The point of impact is determined by the bullet dwell time, which is determined by both weight and velocity of the bullet.

[farmersamm]

And some things are just weird.

My 9mm with 120gr TC, 3.9gr HP38, is dead on (1100fps)

Loading a 102gr RN, 4.9gr HP38, it's about 3" low (1400fps)

Go figger...................

[cpaspr]

And some things are just weird. My 9mm with 120gr TC, 3.9gr HP38, is dead on (1100fps) Loading a 102gr RN, 4.9gr HP38, it's about 3" low (1400fps) Go figger................... Not weird at all. Lay a level across your front and rear sights and get the bubble centered. Your barrel is pointing slightly downward relative to the sights, isn't it?

Recoil starts at the instant of ignition. That 120gr bullet is in the barrel just the right amount of time that the recoil has brought the barrel upwards in line with the target at the instant the bullet leaves the barrel. The 102gr bullet though, with more powder and a lighter weight, is moving faster, so it isn't in the barrel as long. The gun hasn't risen enough for the barrel to be in line with the target, hence "shooting low".

It's all physics.