Taper or Roll Crimp with 452374 in Scholfield Brass?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I'm loading .45 Schofield with 452374 cast with scrap ww alloy at about 800 fps. Should I crimp this load with a roll crimp, since I'm shooting it in a Colt SAA revolver, or should I use a taper crimp since this boolit was designed for the .45 ACP. It works great in the the .45 ACP in my Colt's 1911's with a taper crimp.

230 gr from a SAA at 800 fps shouldn't generate enough recoil to concern me with boolit jump like .44 mag would.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Taper crimping will generally increase brass life so that is something to consider, taper crimp will also likely be more than sufficient. You could roll crimp, just seat the bullet slightly deeper and roll gently onto the nose.

all things considered I would taper crimp. I do with all of my 45 auto rim and have not had any issues

[Wayne Smith]

The crimp is simply to keep the boolit from sliding forward and locking up your cylinder. Either is probably adequate at 800fps.

[gwpercle]

Give the Taper crimp a try first and see if it holds.There's little to roll crimp into on that design.
I loaded some .358 cast 9 mm 124 grain truncated cone boolits, design is quite similar to your 45 boolit, in 38 special and 357 magnum cases , used the taper crimp die from the 9 mm set to crimp them and they held just fine.
If taper crimp doesn't work out there's always plan B.
Gary

[Char-Gar]

Either will work in a revolver, but as the bullet in question does not have a crimp groove, I would use a taper crimp. It is plenty good to keep the bullet from jumping the crimp.

[DougGuy]

The crimp is simply to keep the boolit from sliding forward and locking up your cylinder. Either is probably adequate at 800fps.

It would have to fail totally to allow a boolit in Schofield brass to move far enough to tie up a .45 Colt cylinder..

Try both and don't be surprised if you use more of a roll crimp than is really needed, that you actually create a little helpful resisance that might delay boolit movement just a few nanoseconds longer allows pressure to build before it pulls crimp and you have much better ignition and much lower SD. This is what I get with my modded collet crimp. I was getting loads over the chrony in .44 mag that were within 20fps of each other which was a measurable improvement over the roll crimp.

Also, the amount of roll crimp can be determined by hardness of the boolit. Soft alloys need more crimp as the alloy can swage at the crimp and allow the base of the boolit to creep forward. Hard alloy won't do this at all, and can be held steadfast with much less crimp.

I am currently working on load development for my medium framed Vaquero that I converted a .45 ACP cylinder to .45 Schofield. I ordered a Lee collet style factory crimp die that I will turn down in the lathe to fit the Schofield brass so I can have the collet crimp as a choice in additon to the roll crimp.

Rounds on left were crimped with modded collet crimp die, on the right is traditional roll crimp, these are heavy for caliber Lee C430-310-RF boolits in .44 mag cases, fired cases shown to illustrate that the collet crimp does indeed open fully and lay back flat inside the chamber.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC03150_zps2fffcc0c.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC03150_zps2fffcc0c.jpg.html)


Thread showing modded collet style crimp die:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Thanks guys. I got the taper crimp and finished loading some cartridges. I was able to buy a set of dies with a taper crimp right off the shelf without having to order through the mail like I would have had to do a roll crimp die. And I didn't want to caniblise the Dillon tool head already set for .45 ACP.

[Bohica793]

My general rule of thumb is that if the bullet has a crimp groove I will roll crimp. Otherwise I taper crimp.

[9.3X62AL]

My general rule of thumb is that if the bullet has a crimp groove I will roll crimp. Otherwise I taper crimp.

Pretty good rule of thumb right there, for handgun applications. (Like that signature line, too).

A few exceptions can crop up, though--ain't that always the way it goes? Those of us with levergun/wheelgun combos in 32/20 WCF or 44/40 WCF using Lyman #311008 or #427098 have another little variable to figure into the equation in order to make the ammo usable in both arms types.

Neither "008" or "098" has a crimp groove. This stems from their original use as black powder projectiles in their respective cases--they sat atop a column of compressed black powder and had a roll crimp placed at their ogive recess just above the bullet's full-diameter drive portion. Use of a smokeless powder that takes up much less case volume can create a problem in the tubular magazines of leverguns with the grooveless bullets--shunting down the magazine can cause bullets to telescope inside the case, raising pressures and sometimes causing misfeeds. The solutions are to 1) use a bullet with crimp groove and/or 2) use a powder column that offers full bullet support at 100%+ loading density and gives a safe working pressure at the same time. Alliant Reloder 7 does this very well in my experience. A third option would be to roll a cannelure into the case sidewall to support the bullet base, but the results with that move were not as positive for me.