Loading Black Powder Paper Patched 45-70 Cartridges

[DoctorBill]

I am 73 and haven't reloaded for over a year and a half due to my
wife getting Cancer last year. Sort of put a big stop to everything....

Well, she is OK for now, so I went to the range and shot up all my
45-70's in my Pedersoli Sharps. Had to reload.....

Perhaps all you younger guys can remember exactly HOW you do
stuff w/o help, but I had forgotten just how I did all the steps to reload
Paper Patched cartridges and had to relearn (reinvent) the wheel, so to say.

After going back and reviewing everything, while reloading 50 rounds with
364 grain Paper Patched Wheel Weight Cast Bullets (of my own design) with
50 grains of Goex FFg (light loads for an old shoulder), I decided I had better
record what I was doing for later, in case I forget the details again !

So I took some pictures of what I was doing and put them together so that
I could print it out and put it in my 3-ring Reloading Binder.

It will help my son, who I am hoping will carry on with BP shooting when
I go to the big Black Powder Range in the sky (hopefully not the other place !).

I will put the procedure I used to Paper Patch these cast bullets later on at the
end of this thread. Here goes. The pages print out for both sides of a piece of
paper for punching 3-holes on the right side. For what it is worth.

BTW - I use the LEE 45-70 Die Set and the Brass/Steel Powder Compressing
tools from Wolf - http://www.4570products.info/main.sc
Not sure they sell them any more....picture No. 5
You could use a hardwood dowel of the proper diameter for 45-70 cases tho.

https://s19.postimg.org/ekdeqwaub/B_W_Page_1.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/rd1iqtmg3/B_W_Page_2.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/6hf8fkq8z/B_W_Page_3.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/f0ymdbylf/B_W_Page_4.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/f28k6r0f7/B_W_Page_5.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/92kt33fmr/B_W_Page_6.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/tnzkuzx7n/B_W_Page_7.jpg

I will probably get nasty comments that I am doing this wrong or
someone won't like my methods or my work area is cluttered.
Piffle.

DoctorBill

[country gent]

If they shoot good for you in your rifle keep going. I am assuming you bullets are groove dia not bore dia. What size do the patched bullets measure? Another little trick to lubricate and water proof the patch is Lee Sizing die wax the water souluable. I mix it 3 parts water to 1 part wax and dampen patches when rolling them. Or a light coat can be applied with fingers just before seating. I have also used JoJoba oil for this. My Pedersoli sharps does very well with a 530 grn PP bullet also.

[DoctorBill]

My Pedersoli bore measures 0.446 to 0.457. I patch to the groove diameter.
The bullet itself is smooth sided and 0.440 dia. 364 grains round top.

https://s19.postimg.org/trteb92oz/Bullet_and_Mold.jpg
I made the cavity in Aluminum with a "D-Bit" reamer I manufactured.

I measure .457-.458 with calipers with 2 rolls of a paper I obtained from
somewhere many years ago. I keep a pile of paper with enough there to
Paper Patch for a large Army.

BTW - My repro H&R 45-70 Springfield 'Cavalry' Trapdoor has a larger bore-groove measurement - 0.447 to 0.461 - so these should also work (in between bore and groove).

I'm all done with 50 rounds now and feel like doing some more !

I have read many comments about Paper Patching....roll wet, roll dry, no need
to lubricate the paper, soak paper in oil, wax the paper after rolling, on and on.

After shooting these for a while, I have the feeling that it really doesn't matter
what you do with the paper. I am not a marksman in any way and I don't compete
at shooting matches, so the finer aspects of this hobby don't matter to me.

I am lucky to hit the target at all !
I'm happy if I can put most rounds into a 6 inch circle at 100 Yards.
If I were in a battle sometime back in the 1800's,
I would hit the enemy or an Elk. A squirrel would probably be fairly safe !

After shooting 30 of these 45-70's, my shoulder has had enough !

I paper patch for my .577-450 Martini-Henry and my .577 Snider.
The British .577 calibre Snider is a scary rifle ! It kicks hard !
I can't imagine having those big slugs coming at me !

https://s19.postimg.org/i1fgtv9wj/Different_Sizes_B.jpg

DoctorBill
Eastern Washington State (Spokane area)

PS - Was looking at those "KAL" moulds (English Spelling) - WOW !
Beautiful, but beautiful moulds ! http://kal.castpics.net/Molds.html

I have not attempted to make moulds in Steel....only Aluminum.
Wonder if I could do it ?!
I lust after the Postell Shape Bullet Molds.....

What do the numbers of the designs mean ? i.e. "40-2.5xT-200"

[semtav]

I doubt those stubby things will suffer distortion, but you might try compressing the powder with something else then seating the bullet.

[DoctorBill]

Yes - I have such a thing from "Track of the Wolf" - you see it being
used in picture No. 5, page 3 - to set the card disk down on the
powder.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1222/1/DIE-45-COMPRESS

As I said, I am loading 50 grains of Goex as a reduced load.

50 grains comes right up to where the card, lube cookie and bullet
set in the cartridge.

What made you say that ?

DoctorBill

[rancher1913]

can you elaborate on the function of the lube cookie, I know its to lube but I have never seen that before. I don't pp just use my lube-sizer to prep my boolits. if its not proprietary maybe the recipe for your cookie?

[M-Tecs]

Doctor Bill

Very nice write-up. Thanks for doing it.

[DoctorBill]

M-Tecs - Thank you. I think it is our DUTY to teach those younger than us what we learned with such difficulty. It makes our species different than animals. It advances us.

Rancher1913 - "can you elaborate on the function of the lube cookie, I know
its to lube but I have never seen that before."

Wow - never thought I would have to explain about Lube Cookies !
Not that it is a dumb question - just the contrary !
It is a very good question, but requires a lot of answer.

Paul Matthews wrote about "Grease Cookies" in his Book "Shooting the
Black Powder Cartridge Rifle". I bought all of his books and read them
cover to cover. They are worth buying (Amazon?) !
Also - These books ! https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/1214/1

On page 67 he starts explaining them.

On this Forum, you can find threads about them.
Here is one: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?148384-Lube-cookie!/page3

Skip the first page of wise-off replies. About reply number 7 you start to get the info you are looking for.

Try this: http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219

I don't want to type out the whole thing from Matthews book, but in essence the Lube Cookie
spreads a soft waxy deposit down the barrel and keeps the BP residue soft for the next bullet
to wipe it clean as it leaves the barrel. Thus, the Lube Cookie allows you to keep firing w/o
having to use a "blow tube" and/or swab the barrel often.

As to "formulas" - I made up mine. You want it soft, but not too soft (laugh it up !) Not corrosive, either.

This is "More or less" and the 'formula' changes as I make it up......
54 % Parowax One Slab
28 % Peanut Oil 4 tbsp + 1 tsp I have read that peanut oil works best.
11 % Toilet Bowl Wax Ring (Gunk Corp) 2 Tbsp Don't laugh ! This stuff is a good lubricant ! Cheap too !
5 % STP Oil Treatment 1 Tbsp I use different wax dyes to distinguish different mixes.

Melted all together in a pot on the stove.

Find a high wall plastic dish - like with Nissan Chow Mein Noodle Meal. Has a nice high temp, high wall plastic bowl. I keep a bunch of them.
Good to use to feed your pets....they don't deform in hot water.

https://s19.postimg.org/ne9d5444j/Making_Lube_Cookies.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/86b01siqr/Red_Cheese_Wax_Covering.jpg

Anyway - fill the container with boiling water to about 1/2 inch depth.
Pour the mixed, melted lube cookie mixture on top of the HOT water to a depth of about .2 inch or 4 mm. - - > It floats !
Let the bowl set until next morning (put in fridge for a while after it cools down).
The Lube Cookie mix will be hard and can be removed, dried off and
stored between waxed paper sheets until needed.

They make window glass by floating molten glass on top of molten Tin !

I cut the cookies with an old 45-70 shell case and blow the cookie out.
Alternatively, cut the end off the casing and push the Lube Cookie out with a wood dowel.
I made a Lube Cookie cutter out of an old Martini-Henry shell case.

I hope this gets you going on Lube Cookies. Some folks don't use them.

Whatever floats your boat.....different strokes for different folks.....etc, etc. !

DoctorBill

PS - The 1873 Martini Henry (Zulu !) used a cartridge that had a Lube Cookie in it !
Check it out - http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/dundas56/577-martini.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/ntkmy4q1v/Martini_Henry_Cartridge_Diagram.jpg

The Beeswax wad was an early "Lube Cookie" ! Imagine being attacked by 4,000 Zulus !
No time for a "Blow Tube" or swabbing the barrel ! "Fire at will !" Rent the movie Zulu !
Fascinating. Black Powder Cartridge rifles in battle. I have one of those Bayonets ! Hideous !

https://s19.postimg.org/mljq97h0j/zulu_2799128b.jpg

[DoctorBill]

Drying my recently Paper Patched Bullets.....quicker than just setting there.

https://s19.postimg.org/layxxg4bn/Drying_Paper_Patched_Bullets.jpg

A commonly found bullet reloading tray - use either side.
The square holes let the air circulate around the PP Bullet and they dry quickly.

I have NO patience !

DoctorBill

[rancher1913]

thanks, that makes sense now.

[semtav]

Yes - I have such a thing from "Track of the Wolf" - you see it being
used in picture No. 5, page 3 - to set the card disk down on the
powder.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1222/1/DIE-45-COMPRESS

As I said, I am loading 50 grains of Goex as a reduced load.

50 grains comes right up to where the card, lube cookie and bullet
set in the cartridge.

What made you say that ?

DoctorBill


My bad. Just the way I read your post I thought you were compressing the powder with the bullet.

[DoctorBill]

Semtav - Nice avatar picture !

No need to compress the BP with only 50 grains....I think !

Could be a tad of compression going on, but I can't feel any
resistance on the RCBS Press Lever.

The "Stubby" Cast Bullet makes nice holes in Cardboard Targets
at 100 yards and since it is only 364 grains, 50 grains of BP ought
to speed it right along !

Were I to 'Hunt" aminals, I'd use full loads and ~500 grain bullets.

I should do a velocity measurement with my Chronograph.

DoctorBill