.314299 at 1650 too slow to hunt?

[samwithacolt]

I shot some itty bitty groups today with my no 4 Enfield.
27 gr h4895 under a 314299. It clocked 1650 on the chrony and
it was all over the paper at 28 gr/1700.
Would you hunt deer with it at 1650 fps?
I've never had a jbullet shoot this good in .303.
Thoughts on why and why not?

[Lonegun1894]

As long as you place the bullet right, which it sounds like will just be a matter of getting your range right, I think this will work just fine. Now I would still try to speed it up a bit to 1800-1900fps, but would go with the most accurate load in the end. Your 205gr boolit at 1650fps is nothing to sneeze at.

[richhodg66]

That's a long, heavy bullet, I'm guessing it would go all the way through a deer from any angle you hit it. It does have a round nose, though. You might consider trying the BruceB method of casting them with soft noses. There's a great thread in the stickies about how to do it.

[samwithacolt]

I'm thinking low in the shoulder, or behind the nearside shoulder and through the
far shoulder. Probably not the speed or profile for a "ribs through and through".
I need to load a bucketful of them and do the 200yd milk jug challenge.

[longbow]

Or make a simple jig and file a flat on the nose to make a nice meplat.

I have not hunted with mine but I am thinking lack of penetration will not be a problem even at 1650 FPS... at least at moderate ranges.

I'll see if I can look up the info in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook on a fellow hunting with a Savage bolt action .30-30 with Lyman 311284. I don't think his boolits were moving any faster and he swore by the load for deer hunting. I'll post my findings.

Longbow

[runfiverun]

I think I would just add some more 4895.
keep going up to 29-30-31 if you find nothing or see vertical stringing a filler can settle things down.
you always have the 27gr load to fall back on.
think about what you have in terms of say a 357 magnum only with better penetration.
copying the alloy others are using at the 357 speeds will give you similar results.

[quilbilly]

If it shoots that well at 1650, as the saying goes - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". A 205 gr 30 cal boolit going 1650 is more than adequate for deer down to a terminal velocity of 1000 fps so you are easily good to go out wherever your ballistics graph says it slows to that velocity. That range will probably be a lot farther than you are willing to take a shot I would bet. You should try seeing what that boolit will do at that muzzle velocity when shot into soaked, compressed newsprint or phone books at 50 yards and I think you would be amazed with or without a flattened nose. Of course, soaked compressed newsprint (phone books) isn't a true imitation for tissue and bone but that experiment will boost your confidence. One suggestion I would make would be to tinker a little with your lead alloy when you decide what you want the terminal performance of your boolit to be which is what many of us enjoy about making CB's.

[tdoyka]

i use a 165gr ranch dog(coww) with 25.5gr of h4198 in my 30-40 krag and it does just fine. 1800fps+/-(no chrony) out to 150 yards(my own limit) will take down a deer.

i think you will do just fine.

[JeffinNZ]

That's more medicine than the original .32-40 which was 'the deer' cartridge.

[44man]

A soft nose would really help. It is still fast and might poke a hole only.
Going a lot faster will make it better but I have no experience with very fast rifle boolits yet.
You have accuracy so I would not change the load, tinker with the nose.
Placement only goes so far if the boolit is wrong so unless you are prepared for head or spine shots only, just make the boolit do some work.

[white eagle]

handguns kill at lower velocities than that
work on alloy like 44 says make the boolit work

[tdoyka]

i'm going to try a 40:1(8bhn) in a 250gr mihek hp for my ruger sbh with a 4 5/8" barrel. even though i can load it like a 44 mag, i want to see if 44 special at around 850-950fps takes a deer out to 50 yards.

i think that if you take some clip on wheel weights(12bhn i think) or a 20:1(10bhn), you'll have the right boolit for taking out a deer.

[44man]

i'm going to try a 40:1(8bhn) in a 250gr mihek hp for my ruger sbh with a 4 5/8" barrel. even though i can load it like a 44 mag, i want to see if 44 special at around 850-950fps takes a deer out to 50 yards.

i think that if you take some clip on wheel weights(12bhn i think) or a 20:1(10bhn), you'll have the right boolit for taking out a deer.
As long as it is accurate enough and doesn't fill the bore with lead, I don't see why it would not work. I advocate hard for a very small range in velocity but I love pure lead, it is only what I shoot that limits my alloys.
But give me a flinter and a pure ball and no deer will talk back. I am more old fashioned then you fellas imagine.
Going to heavier and faster has shown more work is needed to make the boolits work.
Why would a .44 special load NOT work. Just the boolit after all.
I bet you will have a good report after season. I tell what I use but can't stick my head in the sand unless you want a soft HP driven at what I shoot.

[Wolfer]

I've found a 200 gr round nose boolit at 1650 to work very well indeed if it's not cast harder than 50/50 or about 10 bhn.

Harder boolits I have no experience with but the above combo will surprise you.

[44man]

i have never shot a deer with cast from a rile except the .44 Marlin so my 30-30 is still up in the air. The Marlin worked but accuracy sucked past about 65 yards and even there I hit 10" from the aim point. I had a good rest, aimed behind the shoulders but hit 10" forward, she took one step and went down so I can't say what the boolit did or would have done if hit where I aimed. I will not say what I used was the key. It would take an average of many deer to come to a conclusion. I do not jump to conclusions.
Many say what worked but it will be one or two, How about 20, 50 or 200 deer?

[44man]

I have learned my revolvers and what each does and how to fix if wrong. I have over 180 revolver kills and a few losses. The losses bother me and it took a long time to work it out. Each season I learn more. I have messed up big time and that has to go away. A rifle will be new to me. If I make the rifle work you will have to wait until I can rack and stack before I will tell you what is best. If I shoot one and say anything, squint your eyes at me.

[samwithacolt]

My boolit is clip ons and a hint of tin. I might cast a batch of 50/50 range scrap(pistol boolits) and clip ons to try.

[longbow]

Okay then it was Frank Marshall using a Savage 840 bolt gun chambered in .30-30 with a 311284 over 30 grains of 4350 for velocity of 1750 FPS, so 100 FPS faster than you are getting. Keep range short and you will be fine.

He used his sizer to "bump' the boolit a bit and put a slight flat on the nose as well.

Alternately you could make a jig to file a meplat or get the mould hollow pointed and use a shallow cup HP for better terminal results especially at low velocity.

You might also do a search on 300 Blackout/Whisper and check what sort of velocities people are hunting with and ranges they hunt at as the 300 B.O. is fairly popular and there is quite a bit of information I have seen posted.

Longbow

[TCLouis]

Carefully file a flat point on 5 or 10 (weigh to get them the same weight).

Shoot 1 gallon milk jug full of water with the RN and then shoot one with the FP.
Video the impact if you have something that will take video.

If they will shoot the same, I'm betting on the filed FP boolit being the best choice

[Digital Dan]

I shot some itty bitty groups today with my no 4 Enfield.
27 gr h4895 under a 314299. It clocked 1650 on the chrony and
it was all over the paper at 28 gr/1700.
Would you hunt deer with it at 1650 fps?
I've never had a jbullet shoot this good in .303.
Thoughts on why and why not?

In response to your question, how good are you?

Are you CB Short good? A whoppin' 29 grains of lead at 710 fps. Wow....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/pig%20pen/Tidbit003_zpsfbbcc745.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/pig%20pen/Tidbit003_zpsfbbcc745.jpg.html)

Aim small, pick your shot, it'll work if you do your part.

[44man]

My friend Pete likes pellet guns so one season after getting his deer home he shot it in the head a lot with his RWS .17 and found they all penetrated the skull.
Now I would never advocate a pellet gun until you get to a .45. Some of the big ones have killed very large game with very sad energy figures. Costing an arm and leg, I will stay with my revolvers. It would be fun to hunt with one though.
I don't like head shots at deer, only time they are still is staring at a bright light. :bigsmyl2:
One year long ago I shot at a buck with my bow but I was out of position and my bow arm flew far left. The buck bolted at the sound of the bow but I threw the arrow so far out he ran into it and the arrow planted itself in his skull. Three other shots I threw that way hit the necks and severed the artery.
I had a Jennings long ago and shot at a young buck at 25 yards. He jumped the string, ran ahead and spun around to go back when the arrow reached him and went through his liver. Hard to find him but they walk a straight line when liver hit. Funny to hit a deer on the opposite side!
My grandson shot a big doe with the .44 Marlin close. She spun around and he shot again, the second boolit exited the first entry hole. She took off and went a long way but with three holes it was an easy track. I had to drag her down a hill to a neighbors yard and walk home for the truck. Boolit was too hard for the velocity.

[Geezer in NH]

Shoot the deer in the vitals and it will be a dead deer.

[GhostHawk]

Digital made my point for me.

I've seen video of guys with .40sw or 10mm handguns with 4" barrel popping at deer. Some of those would be lucky to break speed of sound.

If the round shoots lights out at 1650 and **** at 1700 I would check down .3 grains or so from the 1650 load. When you find one that has consistent accuracy below the 1650 just make up a bunch, label em and use.

Ok so you may not want to try any 300 y shots with those. That just means more challenge to you as hunter to get in close.

Why do you think people bow hunt, crossbow hunt, pistol hunt? More challenge.

When you have an old rifle, especially old military surplus, and you can put 5 into a golfball at 100y consistently, you have just won the lottery. That is a winning combination. That will put meat on the table whenever you need. You just have to do your part.

Now I have turned into an old soft hearted hunter so my guns mostly only kill paper.
But should the need arise I would be well equipped. My wife says I have enough to start my own war.

Platoon perhaps.

1650, 1500, heck even 1400 is plenty if it is accurate and you don't try to exceed your range and skill limitations.

[44man]

Call me Preacher as I have always said velocity and ME are useless figures because you can make cast do anything.
My best killing revolvers all are at about 1300 fps and a few ticks over. Anything too far under or over that just needs boolit work at the pot.
No matter what guns you shoot with a perfect hit, it can fail if the boolit is wrong. 900 fps to 2000 fps, don't matter, you are in control when you cast. Sadly nothing you can shoot at will tell you except the animal itself. Those wonderful mushrooms can fail, jeeze, seen a video where the guy hung water filled balloons from a rail and shot with a .44 mag. Caught the bullet in the fourth or fifth balloon. I would NOT hunt with that.

[SSGOldfart]

Simple answer is Yes, I'm of the mind "if it ain't broke don't fix it". as well. Now be sure you can delicate that sweet load.
Then fine tune your self practice your off hand shooting to get completely comfortable shoot just like your hunting,keep your shots to the point you have confidence in pick your shoot placement carefully as you should be. If your state hasn't outlawed it Get some time in the woods squirrel hunting with that Rifle, feels really good to finally find that sweet spot doesn't it? You might want to work up a little lighter load for low or no Recoil to practice with. Them old 303's can have a good kick to them. no since creating a problem you don't need either. Dean Grennell set me straight back in about 1965,with a recoil-less load for practicing with 12grs of H-4227, still working today,I've used it for a lot of different calibers, I think we kinda get wrapped up in all of the various variables involving casting and handloading Some food for thought,

"Velocity is the actual speed of the bullet in feet per second , is a critical consideration since the inescapable laws of physics state that energy ( the striking force of the bullet as measured in foot pounds) varies in proportion to the velocity squared"

[JMax]

My 30-06 load with a 311299 bullet with 34 gr of IMR4895 chronos 1850 ft/sec. The a few grains less should get you what you want.

[petroid]

killed two nice deer this past season with a 180 Flat Nose at 1550 fps. Both complete pass throughs. Shoot some into water jugs all lined up. I found my load stopped in the fourth gallon jug and had expanded to 50 caliber. I suspect yours will be similar if the alloy is reasonably soft.

[44man]

My fastest deer killer is the .475 BFR. Shooting gallon jugs of water blew up 4, split the fifth and penetrated 17 jugs. Boolit did not stop.172654