Turret Lathe.. what's it worth?

[PatMarlin]

My Friend has this turret lathe. They replaced all the bearings, tuned it an he said it is dead on and rock solid.

Problem was he became ill before the could paint it, and it has sat covered up in the field to rust.

What would this machine be worth?

I would like to power it with one of my Lister 6/1's.. :mrgreen:

[10-x]

Must have come off the ARK, runs/ran off a line shaft in some old time shop.
I would be inclined to offer him the junk rate in scrap steel + a few 100 bucks. Sitting out like that can cause all kind of problems. Kroil and Scotch brite may fix most of it.
At least it not made in china!!!!:drinks:

[M98]

i thought mine was old...LOLOLOL...it was made in 1929...was rebuilt like 10 years ago....i got it for a fair price...that needs to be cked by someone who knows what sitting does to them...and how much damage it caused..be a neat toy to play with though...

[gzig5]

I don't think that one is worth the scrap price to rejuvinate. The time and effort to bring it back to life would buy a much nicer turret lathe. You are looking at a LOT of work there.

[jlchucker]

Back in the 1970's and early 1980's I was fortunate enough to have worked in production control for Jones and Lamson, in Springfield, Vermont. They began manufacturing turret lathes in the 1800's, and continued all the way into the CNC era, when what they produced was state-of-the-art. Even in the CNC era, they still had orders for spare turret lathe parts for flat-top lathes, in use by customers, that had been built at the turn of the 20th century. Those old US-manufactured turret lathes were built to last. It's likely you might be able to fix your machine up and get some long-term good use out of it. I'd like to see the photo you attached, but for some reason, I can't get it to open. A company called Vermont Machine Tool Corp. still operates out of Springfield, and has a lot of experience with old turret lathes.

[wolfspotter]

Used to work at NIBCO brass and machined my share of fittings on those old turret lathes. Too bad it was left out like that. Wonder if you can still get the cutting tools for it?

[Pavogrande]

IF, you need a turret lathe it is probably useble - as others have said they can be long lasting machines. For my needs, I find a turret too much machine, not as flexible as a regular engine lathe. If it was high production machine it may have worn ways at some specific area. My two cents --

[charger 1]

The oldest sweatshop I worked in as a young apprentice, you know with the guys spitting tobacco on the floor. Had a pic of something like that on the wall with a caption that read"Could be worse"..Seriously man, scrap metal price, salvage a few parts maybe and that be that. From what I can see in yer pics she'll not make a useable commodity,,,IMHO

[Bret4207]

Used to work at NIBCO brass and machined my share of fittings on those old turret lathes. Too bad it was left out like that. Wonder if you can still get the cutting tools for it?

Would that have been Nibco in Glens Falls? My FIL worked there for years in the late 50's early 60's. I think it's gone now.

[PatMarlin]

Actually, the lathe has been covered up. All the wheels work, everything moves, and the bearings have been replaced.

I don't think it will cut threads though, and I need that.

[R.M.]

It's a boat anchor, and not a very good one at that. Get yourself an engine lathe. You won't regret it.

[jlchucker]

PatMarlin, at one time there were threading tools on the market that mounted on one of the faces of a hex turret. These held threading inserts and/or dies, and actually threaded very well. I've been away from machine tools for quite a while now, but it's likely that such tooling could be found on the web. Maybe there's a bargain out there that would serve your purposes pretty well. It's also possible to single-point thread with a tool mounted in the cross-sliding square turret found on universal-type turret lathes. If your machine is, as you say, "rock-solid", it's in all likelihood potentially more useful than just as a "boat anchor". I couldn't open your attached photo, but some of those old manual J&L's or Warner-Swazey's can be very useful machines, even in this day and age of CNC turning.

[Sig shooter]

If the bed ways - bearing - cross feed gib are not pitted , it might be worth something . If you can get to clean steel with WD40 and a scotch brite pad with a bit of cleaning is might be worth saving . Large swing turret lathes are the devils invention , can see you turning a 1/8 rod in a 14" 3 jaw chuck .

It looks like a simple power feed without a threading quick change gearbox. Which makes it worth " 0"

[exblaster]

PatMarlin
The lathe is most likely usable but if you want to thread with it you may be better off with something else as there doesn't appear to be a thread dial or a quick change gear box. Neither of which are mandatory for threading but it makes the chore a lot easier.
As far as scrapping it please do not old U.S. made machines are being destroyed at an astounding rate. The new generation of machinists think if it doesn't have a DRO and CNC it is useless. Thy forget the CNC stuff was first made on manual equipment. If you have the cad files and CNC set up it doesn't take a machinist to do the job just an operator. The point of my rant if it has one is that an old manual machine will do as much as any CNC set up but you are the servos and controllers. So you will have to learn to be a machinist not just an operator.


Exblaster

[wolfspotter]

Would that have been Nibco in Glens Falls? My FIL worked there for years in the late 50's early 60's. I think it's gone now.

Close, South Glens Falls. I worked there in the 90's but things were slowing down. They closed down the New York plant a few years ago but others are still running.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Pat, This would be good project lathe for anyone into restoring old machines. You'll find a forum on the Practical Machinist site:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php

But since we're on a gun related site, I'm assuming you have some interest in gun work, and may be asking what it's worth as a gunsmith's lathe, which the answer is almost zero. Like many others have said, get yourself an engine lathe, If you like old American iron, like I do, there are many lathes out there, in need of a bit of TLC, that will repay you with many hours enjoyment working on guns, reloading dies and other gun related projects.
Morgan.

[wolfspotter]

Without the machine turning, lock your lubed rifle brass into the chuck and feed your deprimer, resizer die on the turret. Turn her on and trim your brass on the next station. Next will deburr inside the neck and the last to deburr the outside. What do you think? :kidding:

[Doughty]

Pat,

I've got a nice Craftsman "Atlas" 12" lathe I'm going to sell. It might work good for you. If you wanted to make a little run up to western Montana, I would make you a deal on it.

[PatMarlin]

I'm sure the turret needs more TLC than I have time for right now. Sure would be a neat machine restored.. :Fire:

I'll PM with some questions on your atlas OV.

[JIMinPHX]

I paid about $400 for a Hendy of that vintage & in that condition when I was younger & had more time than money. After I fixed it up & recut the cross slide, it was a pretty serious machine. I took a lot of very heavy cuts with that machine & got great finishes. When I got my Clausing, I retired that machine, & then later wished that I hadn’t. The Clausing would not take nearly as heavy of a cut without crying about it. That Hendy would take a 1/4" deep cut in steel at .030”/rev.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Pat, This is the 12-1/2"x 48" Cincinnati I replaced my 12"x36" Clausing with. I paid $2700 for it back in 1991, and it's been my main lathe ever since. As you can see from the photos, it's built more like a 14" lathe, than a 12". The largest barrel I've ever turned on it, was a 44" x 5" barrel for a 3/4 scale six pounder cannon with a 2-5/8" bore. Before machining, the tube weighed over 200 lbs., and had to be mounted using a chain hoist. It's got a taper attchment, so I don't have to offset the tailstock when turning barrels. Something like this is what you want for gunsmith work. Just takes a bit of looking.
Morgan
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/Lathe.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/100_0792.jpg

[PatMarlin]

What an awesome machine Morgan!! I would love to have something like that someday.

Does that cut metric threads out of curiousity?

I was working with my Harbor Freight piece of 3-1 crap today. That thing is really lame. I've got to figure out if I can align the 3 jaw chuck. It has about .012 runout.

Took me most of the day to bore out a peice of pipe, to make a housing for adding a spoolgun to my welder so I can weld aluminum. I guess if I get good on this junk, I will be ready for a decent machine.. :roll:

[PatMarlin]

I would love to drive down and buy this one. Just may if the guys still have it in a few months:

http://cgi.ebay.com/19-x54-LE-BLOND-REGAL-METAL-LATHE-WITH-LOTS-OF-TOOLING_W0
QQitemZ320259342720QQihZ011QQcategoryZ97230QQtcZph otoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1Q
QcmdZViewItem

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Pat, That's just the kind of machine(except for the size), I was talking about. The tooling is a big plus, as is the taper attachment, it will usually cost more than the lathe. The three phase is no problem, a phase converter is easy enough to make.

Re: Your chuck, 12 thou is a bunch of runout!!! If the lathe has no runout at the spindle, you might want to try an adjustable three jaw such as the Set Tru. You could try grinding the jaws on your chuck, keeping them under pressure with a large notched washer, but they'll only be "right on" at one diameter. The only other alternative, is a four jaw, with which every piece can be dialed in, a real PITA.

No, mine doesn't cut metric, luckily, Mauser used English threads, as did most other makers. Other than the Brevex Magnum Mauser, which has a 2MM pitch(Dang French!!):twisted:, I've never come across a bbl. I couldn't thread.
Morgan

[charger 1]

Morgan if you swiped that for 2700 bucks at any point in the last 3 decades your laughin. Good on you. Well worth every penny

[M98]

OLD i got...LOL...1929 south bend lathe...bought it from an old retired mechanic from a truck shop...

http://www.cornbread.com/~mauser98/album04/shop_06

oh..its a 13x60

[PatMarlin]

Nice lathe M98.

Actually, that's the type I would like to own, only a little bigger. I want to run a jackshaft through my shop and power the lathe with my Lister 6/1 engine parked outside in a shed running flat belts with the big flywheels on the lister.

I want to set up an old timey belt drive shop.. :mrgreen:

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Nice lathe M98.

Actually, that's the type I would like to own, only a little bigger. I want to run a jackshaft through my shop and power the lathe with my Lister 6/1 engine parked outside in a shed running flat belts with the big flywheels on the lister.

I want to set up an old timey belt drive shop.. :mrgreen:

You mean with the shaft running across the ceiling, and wooden paddles hanging down over each machine to shift the belts? This is how half the high school machine shop I learned in fifty years ago was set up. It ran lathes, milling machines , shapers, and radial drills. All very large machines. It was powered by a huge three phase motor we had to start by pulling a lever on the "starter box" on the wall. The other half of the shop was comprised of newer machines, each with their own motor. Boy, are the memories flooding back!
Morgan

[PatMarlin]

THat's exactly what I'm talking about Morgan!

I've got 4 of these engines- Lister CS or "Cold Start" 6 hp. One of them should be able to run the shop with no problem... :drinks:

I need to hire you to help me install the "Fat Belt" shop... :mrgreen:

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Pat, Have you ever visited the Practical Machinist site?
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php
They have an Antique Machinery and History forum. Lots of info of interest to, and from, guys like us. I post as pgfaini.

This isn't an offer to sell, but I've got a large roll of 4", and a short roll of 6", 2-ply leather belting, I picked up years ago at an old shop that went out of business(where I bought my Clausing lathe). Been using it for vise jaw liners, knife sheaths, and pocket holsters, by separating the layers. This is probably what you'll need, unless you go with rubberized fabric belting. Are you familiar with this size of leather belting? I can take a photo and post it, or cut a piece and send it to you. You should be able to locate some out on the coast, you'll be looking for the overhead shafting and pulley system, and the belting will probably be sold with it.
Morgan

[NoDakJak]

Pat Congratulations on the Lister engines. I have only seen one since transferring from England back to the states in 1977. Most of the ones that I saw over there were the smaller sheep shearing units. If they aren't the Rolls Royce of small english engines they must at least be the Bentleys. I should imagine that Australia and New Zealand should be awash with those small units. That six hp unit should run your shop nicely. A gent in Avenal, California in the late sixties had his home gunshop set up like that. He is the gent that got me interested (eat up in the head) with collecting different Mauser 98 actions. I doubt if he is still alive and I can't help wondering what happened to his equipment. Neil

[PatMarlin]

Pat, Have you ever visited the Practical Machinist site?
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php
They have an Antique Machinery and History forum. Lots of info of interest to, and from, guys like us. I post as pgfaini.

This isn't an offer to sell, but I've got a large roll of 4", and a short roll of 6", 2-ply leather belting, I picked up years ago at an old shop that went out of business(where I bought my Clausing lathe). Been using it for vise jaw liners, knife sheaths, and pocket holsters, by separating the layers. This is probably what you'll need, unless you go with rubberized fabric belting. Are you familiar with this size of leather belting? I can take a photo and post it, or cut a piece and send it to you. You should be able to locate some out on the coast, you'll be looking for the overhead shafting and pulley system, and the belting will probably be sold with it.
Morgan


Morgan, yes I've seen the belting. I think I have books around that show you how to stitch your own also.

I'll have to check out practicalmachinist.com. Sounds great.

Wouldn't it be neat to find an old barn or shop, with the whole layout forsale cheap? Most folks today wouldn't even know what it was used for.. :mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Pat Congratulations on the Lister engines. I have only seen one since transferring from England back to the states in 1977. Most of the ones that I saw over there were the smaller sheep shearing units. If they aren't the Rolls Royce of small english engines they must at least be the Bentleys. I should imagine that Australia and New Zealand should be awash with those small units. That six hp unit should run your shop nicely. A gent in Avenal, California in the late sixties had his home gunshop set up like that. He is the gent that got me interested (eat up in the head) with collecting different Mauser 98 actions. I doubt if he is still alive and I can't help wondering what happened to his equipment. Neil


Neil-

I've wanted a lister for years. These are english knock offs made in India. I learned last year the EPA has banned imports on these, and soon you will not be able to get them when stock runs out of the few importers that have them, so I bought 4.

The reason I bought 4 is for one thing (I bought the best known mfg, and got them at a real good price) we live off the grid here, and the majority of solar backup charging I use is DC- via Chevy Delco alternator. The water cooled 6hp diesels are perfect for this. I run my whole shop with solar, accept when I need heavy welding, then I run a 220v generator.

I figured I would keep 2- one for the solar system, and one for the shop belt drive machinery, then sell the other 2 as generators for folks up here. I bought the best brand known quality Indian mfg, and got them at a real good price. The one in the picture is not mine, but similar.

Most folks run big expensive generators for solar backup, which is a big waste of machinery IMO. I can generate 45-50 amps direct to my battery bank from the Delco alt, for 5-6 hours on 1 gallon of diesel. My last alt ran 7 years, then was $45 to replace (could rebuild it for $12, but I had a Lifetime warranty.. :mrgreen:). A lister will run one for several decades with proper maintenance.

The money I have in these listers is only 20% of what it would cost to buy a quality commercial diesel ac generator.

[carpetman]

The drip pan looks a little oversize--you could cut off a little and make yourself a dandy ingot mold--then you wouldn't have to go to wifes cubbard,Salvation Army,Garage Sales,Dollar General,Wal Mart and who knows where else looking for muffin pans.

[PatMarlin]

Did you post on the wrong thread again C-Ray? ...:mrgreen:

[carpetman]

No Pat the drip pan on the old lathe looks like could be used to make ingot molds.

[PatMarlin]

Oh. We went so far off topic, I forgot what the thread was about.

Can you elaborate on the process? ...:mrgreen:

[lathesmith]

Well Pat, since we are so far off topic, and I see you have an interest in alternate power, check out this link:
http://theepicenter.com/tow02077.html

I made a little gas genny out of an old 3.5 hp lawn mower engine, this company's vertical bracket, and a Delco-Remy 85 amp alternator. It works dandy for as a back-up for charging battery packs, I have a couple of UL-16 batteries and a few solar panels I use with my amateur radio gear and some interior emergency lighting. This thing is far more economical to use than my 4000 watt, 9hp back-up genny, and pretty quiet too. I also use it as a "field" battery charger, when AC is not available. Those Lister engines really look up to the task, it's a great idea!

lathesmith

[Buckshot]

................With your wood and wood by products I'm surprised you aren't looking at steam :-) Down by San Diego (I forget which little town it is) there is a VERY large steam and internal combustion club that puts on a huge open house each year for a couple weeks. Part of the overall attraction is a lineshaft blacksmith shop.

They make very simple stuff for sale, like fireplace pokers, and decorative forks spoons and a couple other simple widgits. This way you can watch them from start to finish. It's all powered by a hit r miss sitting out back. One neat tool is a forging hammer. A blacksmith walks up with a piece of red hot steel in pincers then steps on a peddle. The peddle has a rod attached to a bracket with an idler wheel which moves back to tension the belt running from the overhead shaft.

Through familiarity with the peddle he can get one stroke, turn the workpiece then another single stroke. If it needs lots of attention he just keeps his foot down on the peddle and the hammer strikes very rapidly. Cool to watch.

They also have a 2 story tall 4 cyl diesel that came from the copper mine in Bisbee, AZ. All it does now is turn a large generator and power a couple light bulbs. The whole show for it is in the starting sequence. The operator goes up a ladder to a catwalk alongside the cylinder heads to light a gasoline blowtorch at each head which heats a glowplug. There are glass windows about 8" square in the crankcase.

It's a 2 cycle diesel and in case it runs away the operator uses a hammer to bust out the glass windows which de-pressurizes the crankcase so the cylinders can't draw in anymore fuel :-).

..............Buckshot

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Buckshot, Many years ago, the movie "African Queen", inspired me to explore the possibilities of building a boat powered by a small vertical steam engine. I was thwarted by the problems encountered, in getting a steam boiler certified. This is something that can't be done on a one-up basis. Just too expen$$$$ive!
Things may have changed since then, but I'm sure only for the worse. An existing boiler, may be the answer, don't know what the regs. are for land-based boilers.
Morgan

[PatMarlin]

I would LOVE to see that setup Rick.

Steam is an option, but it does require water of course. Water is in somewhat of a short supply in these parts. We need to keep all we can for our garden and household use.

I'm going wood gassification because it's rather user friendly compared to steam and possible much safer. Plus I can build it all with the tools I have now. THe main thing I need to up my skills on is engine machining for rebuilding to keep engines running.

I've got a friend who already runs his pickup on nothing but wood drops from his sawmill. He built the 1970's Mother Earth News design. There are several designs out there.