and for my latest bugger up....a nipple

[DrDucati]

So, taking apart the Armi San Marcos 1858 Remington revolver... I managed to run into two issues:

1) hand spring broke. Already epoxied it and ordered a replacement for the hand assembly, figuring my epoxy may not hold.

2) I was able to remove three cones. The other three are rusted, after much torture and almost stripping the soaked-in-WD40 cones, I bought an impact driver and used a socket dremeled into a nipple-wrench and beat the hell out of them...I was able to loosen and remove one of the three. The other two are hopelessly stripped.

I'm going to soak the cylinder in WD40 for more hours and then try to muscle them, but I'm suspecting I'll either have to drill them out or work on finding a new cylinder.

Any ideas (apart from telling me how stupid I was)?

[Buckshot Bill]

use heat
drill out and re-tap


invest in a ratcheting nipple wrench for the next time this occurs, and if an oil soak won't let it loose, break out the torch (assuming there is no charge present of course)

[bedbugbilly]

If you have to drill them out - just remember that a Remington nipple is in to the cylinder on an angle - i.e. not parallel with the side of the cylinder. Keep soaking in some good penetrating oil. If you need to drill - drill carefully and don't try to do it in one pass. i.e. start with smaller drill and then work up. In years past, I have removed original nipples that were in really bad shape - hadn't been removed for years, peened, etc. by drilling and then using a small "easy out'. I got my set at a NAPA auto supply many years ago. These are basically tapered square punches of various sizes - you drill the hole, gently tap the taper end in and then use a small crescent wrench to turn - the easy out will grip the ID of the hole you've drilled and will usually give enough torque to back the drilled nipple out. You have some of them out so measure the threaded portion and be sure you use a drill that will leave enough of the thread wall to grip with the easy out.

Good luck to you. When you get them out, clean the cylinder thoroughly and replace with new nipples. I always put a drop of oil on the threads when I put mine back in. I usually pull them about every other cleaning to make sure thee is no fouling that will be left to promote rust if I'm not going to shoot the pistol for a while.

[ogre]

While you're in a NAPA auto (or equivalent) store for the easy outs get yourself a tube of Anti-sieze for the new nipple threads. I believe it to be a superior product because of it's heat resistance as well as it's other properties.

[Fly]

Forget the wd-40 & soak over night in ATF. It is amazing how well it works.

Fly

[DrDucati]

Bought the '58 used at a gun show recently. I consider myself a sucker.

Anyway, the JB weld actually fixed the hand spring assembly. Then The timing was off it turns out because of a slight bend in the trigger spring (which I think also is a bolt spring).

Going to try the easy outs and the ATF today, now that WD-40 has failed me. If I am able to get them out and tap the holes successfully, it sure will have me feeling accomplished. I did also pick up some anti-seize aluminum gunk.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have an 1851 had the same problem. I tried using an easy out and Broke it off in the nipple. A friend took the cylinder and tried all sorts of things. He finally made a nipple wrench out of a CHEAP socket and used an impact wrench. Just when he thought it was hopeless the nipple broke free. When using the impact wrench he put a board on the floor and put his weight behind it.

I don't know about the Armi but I found a second cylinder for my Pietta on EBay for fifty bucks delivered.

[Squeeze]

use ATF or Kroil, soak for a day or three, then drop the whole cylinder into a pot of hot or boiling water for ~ 5 mins and try again

[MrWolf]

Forget the wd-40 & soak over night in ATF. It is amazing how well it works.

Fly

Try 50/50 ATF/Acetone

[mooman76]

I remove the nipples on my guns when cleaning. Not every time but like every other. That way they get broke loose and don't seize up. I also put a drop of oil on the threads. Anti seize would be better but I don't have any and as long as you remove them fairly often, oil works. I also was going to say something other than WD-40. It's not really made for loosening frozen nut/bolts but it works in light applications.

[DrDucati]

172377

A round of applause, for the act of getting this extractor stuck in the nipple, that won't move in or out?:mad:

[Sasquatch-1]

Been there done that don't need to do it any more.


172377

A round of applause, for the act of getting this extractor stuck in the nipple, that won't move in or out?:mad:

[Rebel Dave]

A couple things to try. 1. Get a set of "left hand drill bits", these spin counter clockwise, (your drill must be able to turn backwards) and will tend to turn the nipples out. Use the correct size to correspond with the size of the threads. 2. Use a torch (butane) on the stuck nipples, get them good, and hot. when they are good and hot, use blunt force to free them up. I have used these tactics to free quite a few stuck nipples. Heat is your friend. Hold the cylinder in a good vise, and go at it.

Rebel Dave

[DrDucati]

A couple things to try. 1. Get a set of "left hand drill bits", these spin counter clockwise, (your drill must be able to turn backwards) and will tend to turn the nipples out. Use the correct size to correspond with the size of the threads. 2. Use a torch (butane) on the stuck nipples, get them good, and hot. when they are good and hot, use blunt force to free them up. I have used these tactics to free quite a few stuck nipples. Heat is your friend. Hold the cylinder in a good vise, and go at it.

Rebel Dave

1. That is a left-hand drill bit in the picture, made for just such a purpose.

2. Got nothing to lose. So yeah, I will get a torch as I've little to lose. By now I've got so much money invested in this project LOL

[Eddie2002]

If you are going to heat everything up with a torch throw some ATF fluid on the nipple while still really hot. It will cool the nipple faster than the rest of the cylinder and can get down into the threads. Try it three or four times for best penitration before cranking on the nipple.

[mooman76]

You might try sticking it in the freezer to get the extractor loose. That helps sometimes on reload dies and such.

[dondiego]

That looks like an extractor and not a left hand drill bit. They are different.

[daleraby]

Prevention=T/C Gorilla Grease, Petrolon/Slick50 One Grease, or anti-sieze compound/B/C Choke Tube Lube. Just a little on the threads before you screw 'em in and you have no more worries about such things. Works with side-hammer guns as well. Another "trick" learned from one of my customers is to put an oil-soaked patch on top of the nipple (on a side-hammer) and rest the hammer on top of it. You MUST remember to fire a cap or two before loading the charge when you do this though.... which is a good policy anyway.

[DrDucati]

Have it currently soaking in PB Blaster. Torched it without success, but don't have the proper vice to allow to safely heat it more than a couple hundred degrees. I am not one to give up but I may, I say, I MAY be beat on this one.

[Geezer in NH]

Need good way to hold cylinder [I prefer two pins in a vise] and a bigger wrench! that don't work use the fire wrench helper. ALL will come out IMHO

[DrDucati]

What is a fire wrench helper?

Trying a new vice grip on it. The extractor broke off. Torched it some more.

Maybe a good week soaking in the rust dissolves will do it. Just have two nipples left to remove.

[Bent Ramrod]

That is a miserable job, all right. The only nipple I loosened that was that stuck was in the cylinder of a friend's Rogers & Spencer replica that he bought used.

I copied the body of the nipple wrench he had broken by turning a piece of drill rod to the maximum diameter that would turn in the cylinder cutout, drilled the turned piece crossways for a cross pin, drilled a hole and cut a slot in the end to a close fit on the nipple cone and flats, and hardened and tempered the thing. All the while, the cylinder was soaking in Liquid Wrench.

When the tool was ready, I clamped the cylinder in a drill press vise using hardwood pieces rasped out to fit the cylinder, put the tool in the drill press chuck with the pin against one jaw so it wouldn't slip, put a strap wrench around the chuck and held it with one hand while the other one held the drill press handle down.

I told the friend that here was the point where we could really wreck things (he said go ahead) and had him hold the vise handle tight while I pulled on the strap wrench while holding the press handle down.

It didn't loosen easily, but when I felt it starting, I slackened hold on the drill press handle to allow the chuck and tool to follow the nipple up as it unscrewed. It took a very hard pull on the strap wrench to start the nipple while the friend was hauling equally hard on the vise handle to keep the cylinder from turning. Afterwards, we found the tool was slightly tweaked, although it didn't break like the nipple wrench did. The cylinder was unharmed, and, after cleaning, things went back together and the gun shot very well.

I saved the tool. Sometimes these tools function as talismans--once you make them you never get another job that needs them. I sure hope so. I would think that you would have less chance of breaking off something like this, which grips a substantial part of the nipple, rather than the small Ezy Outs that are necessary for the small holes in the centers of the nipples.

If you are using a square Ezy Out, you might be able to tap it out with a small pin punch inserted in the chamber. If your drill hole is true, it might be best to continue drilling with larger drills until you get to the minor diameter and can pick the remaining metal out with a scribe or needle.

[DrDucati]

I consider this a lesson in how to purchase one of these things from a gunshow. Didn't do my homework.

[Geezer in NH]

Fire wrench helper is an ox/acy torch with a very small tip. I have one the hoses are only 1/8 inch tubing. very small pin point flame.

[Newtire]

I used a 12 point 1/4" drive socket that would spline itself over the nipple & drove it onto the nipple. Then smacked it with the hand impact driver. One or 2 smacks & it'll be out. Use Kroil if you can find it local. If not, order it online.
Stay away from those internal type easy out things from now on.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Try 50/50 ATF/Acetone

x2 and let it soak a week soaking means fully submerged like in a soup can full of atf and acetone

I bought an ROA that probably had the original nipples from 1976 in it that may have never been removed I got 4 of 6 out I then soaked it in aft for a few hours , well i gave up before I made a mess of it and took it to a local smith who smith the very first thing he did was ask me what i was soaking it in i told him ATF and kerosene 50/50 , the next thing he did was let it set on his bench for a week , then he took a snap-on 6 point socket the proper sized and turned it down on the lathe to make it fit he put that on a T handle and one came right out the other fraught just a little more and took a few hits with a punch also

but time in a good (not wd-40 garbage) penetrating oil is your friend

[RogerDat]

If you are going to heat everything up with a torch throw some ATF fluid on the nipple while still really hot. It will cool the nipple faster than the rest of the cylinder and can get down into the threads. Try it three or four times for best penitration before cranking on the nipple.

I have used this approach with WD40 and Breakaway to good results. Heat then quench with the lubricant/solvent. The liquid follows the retreating heat down into the threads, the heat expansion and contraction of quenching can help break things loose too so repeating a few times can help. One warning, many of these penetrating oils will vaporize on hitting the hot item, that vapor can be very flammable, move the torch away or shut it off to avoid a fireball. Don't ask how I know. Let's just say under a large truck there is enough room to sit up, and enough vapor can collect from spraying a hot 1 inch bolt to knock you on your back when it goes off from the propane torch being held in your "other" hand when you spray.

[SSGOldfart]

Kroll is the best I've found for this.

[merlin101]

As a last resort (you're getting close) you could check with the local machine shops and see if any of them have a EDM. That's electrical discharge machine, that and a good operator can slowly burn away that EZ Out and the bad nipple and leave you with clean threads! It will cost BUT may be your only option.

[Newtire]

Boy, alot of options!

[DrDucati]

This is epic for sure. I wish I had just let it soak for a week before I mushed it up. I would've had them out for sure. It may yet function as a cylinder in its mildly deranged geometric state.

I had soaked it using a red Lee push-through sizing cup/lid. I learned that PB blaster and plastic do not play well together!

I may be able to fit a Pietta cylinder on it. Found some info that the older ASM cylinders are 2.018" length (matching Pietta) and the later models ASM are shorter. Will get Cabela's to let me test fit a spare cylinder.

Of course, the struggle will continue unabated with this here cylinder. I may grow old and my sight grow dim, but I will unstick these nipples.

[Newtire]

Can you post a pic of a close-up of these nipples? Only way I can see that they are un-removeable by my drive-on socket method is if there is no metal left standing proud of the cylinder. I could be wrong but I've removed plenty of stuck bolts that way when students would come over with a hopelessly rounded off bolt in their transmission at the school I used to work at. They would wait until it was pretty rounded off-using a 1/2" socket on a 12mm head size bolt of course. If you are really stuck and feel you trust one of us- send it to me and let me have a try at it. I love a challenge.

[DrDucati]

thank you for the offers. I will be in touch with one of you.

[DrDucati]

172636

172637
First has the embedded bolt extractor. Second is drilled through and mangled with little metal remaining. The orange discoloration is PB Blaster.

[SSGOldfart]

If it's just one nipple that's the camber you leave unloaded as a safety,Just a thought

[Newtire]

I'm not sure if that nipple hole is threaded all the way thru but if it is, grind off what's left of the nipple down just to the threaded part and then screw it inwards into the cylinder instead of trying to back it out . Just take a good nipple down to the hardware store and the cylinder. Find a bolt that's the same thread and screw it on into the cylinder to see if it's threaded all the way thru. Get out your magnifiers and a Dremel and grind off the nipple down to the threaded part and then screw the nipple the rest of the way in. It's got to work.

[Quitmanjack]

Try heating the nipple and cooling it with candle or bees wax