Does the Citric Acid cleaning solution wear out????

[PBaholic]

I've been Ultrasonic cleaning brass cases for only a few months, but have started getting some odd results.

I made a solution of distilled water and cirtic acid obtained from a wine making store. Results were fantastic!

I filter the solution after a few uses by pouring it through paper towel in a funnel, then letting the liquid sit for a day or more. It gets a thick black precipitate on the bottom. I pour off the clearer liquid and use it for cleaning, and this has been working quite well for a few months.

The last few weeks when I cleaned my .45 cases, they come out multi-colored brass. I use Tarn-X to remove this coloring. The odd thing is my .38 brass still comes perfectly fine from the exact same solution. The cases are mostly Federal brass, but contain others as well.

So, is the solution just wearing out, or what???

[762 shooter]

If the multi colored brass is pink I think I read here that is Zinc in old brass.

See the sticky here on citric. Somewhere in there it is talked about.

762

[Comrade Mike]

Yes as you use the solution the citric acid will be depleted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rda72927]

It is SO cheap, why would or do you save it?

[dudel]

It is SO cheap, why would or do you save it?

+1. Use it once and toss it.

[bangerjim]

Just throw it out after EACH usage. Citric is dirt cheap......why in the wide world of sports would you ever save it??!?!?!?!!??!?

bangerjim

[shoot-n-lead]

just throw it out after each usage. Citric is dirt cheap......why in the wide world of sports would you ever save it??!?!?!?!!??!?

Bangerjim

x 200

[PBaholic]

It is SO cheap, why would or do you save it?

Cause I have to buy distilled water.....

[762sultan]

I use citric acid and only mix up enough to cover the brass about 2 inches. So if I am only cleaning 50-100 cases I mix the citric acid with hot tap water in a large peanut butter jar, shake well and add the brass. A larger amount of brass will take a larger container. Shake for a few seconds and then let set for several hours, overnight if its really dirty. Next day dump citric mix into another container, and rinse brass off twice. And return citric mix to PB jar and put on lid to be used again at a later date. Just mix up what you need ...not a whole gallon. The problem arises here in that some type of milky growth appears in the bottle within a week or two. I have still used it at this stage, it doesn't look good, but it still works. I have never used distilled water, only the water from the well. Just make sure to dry brass, shake out each cartridge until the water inside runs out and lay out on a towel or something flat and let them lay in the sun for a day.

[bangerjim]

Cause I have to buy distilled water.....


Unless you are using swamp or mine water, standard tap water is all you need! I even use water from my swimming pool which is VERY hign in Ca and minerals content. My tap water is 1600 uMohs in conductivity.....HARD....and it works perfecty for cleaning.

If you drink your tap water, it is definitely good enough for a citric acid bath mix.

banger

[mold maker]

I think you've already answered your own question. Being frugal is one of the reasons we reload. Replacing the 89c/gal water gets pricey, but reusing it only twice, has already cut the cost in half. Twice more using it has reduced the return to almost nothing.
If adding back a little citric doesn't solve your problem, you have reached the end of the savings. You're now only saving the cost of 2 pieces of brass, and engaging a lot of effort. It's called the cost of vanishing returns.

[runfiverun]

you can distill your own water easy enough.
but if I had/wanted to buy it I wouldn't buy boiled water vapor I'd just buy some water.
look for lemi-shine in the cleaning section of your local grocery store it's like 96% citric acid.
at the worst buy some lemon juice, it's 9% citric acid, so cut it 9-1 and you'll have a 1% solution.

[blackthorn]

Just collect some rain water. All you need is a good sized tarp, slopped to pour the rain water into a glass container, seal and cap. Just as good as bought distilled water.

[prs]

The chief reason to use distilled water in cleaning metal is to avoid the calcium that is naturally present in most tap water. The citric acid is going to "soften" the water any way. I use tap water, a spot of good dish detergent and citric acid. The used solution is flushed.

If you live in Flint; you may be able to cast boolits with your tap water.......

prs

[Walter Laich]

I use a gallon of water, 1 oz of Armor-All Ultra Wash and Wax and 1/8 teaspoon of Lemishine for each batch
There are a lot of 1/8 teaspoons in a container of Lemishine and as well as a bunch of ounces in the Armor-All. After giving brass its rinse I don't end up with spots

[John Boy]

Cause I have to buy distilled water.....In addition to rain water - the water from a dehumidifier is distilled. I keep a gallon under the work bench

[RP]

You can also collect the water that (here) flows out of the AC unit which (here) would be gals a day got to love the south. I run my mix when I will be out in the shop all day just removing the brass and dumping in more to be cleaned at the end of the day my water is so dark you would think it was ink. Thing is it still cleaning the brass so I do not worry about it much. Sometimes if i do a short run on cleaning I leave it sit in my tumbler until I clean some more which may be up to a few weeks with no bad results, Letting it sit and settle is not a bad thing but still has a shelf life. I try to clean most of my brass during the summer since its not casting season since after a rinse placing them outside on a towel in the sun dries them so well but be advised those shiny little jewels get almost finger burning hot so keep the kids away they can not resist picking one up well one time.

[popper]

Interesting article on cleaning brass. http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/File12.htm
Basic problem is removing chlorides, which citric acid does ( it does NOT passivate brass!). Tap water contains chloride, some salts and minerals that citric acid converts to salts that wash away - held in suspension by soaps. So yes, you should replace solution when it gets dark and gritty. Interesting they recommend Krylon clear to seal. These guys are saving relics so they do know what they are talking about.
Dehumidifier water generally has minerals removed but is much different than DI water (3x Di was ~$300/gal).

[farmerjim]

Popper " (3x Di was ~$300/gal)."
Wow 1X is $0.90/gal here. I use to do a lot of photo processing back in the dark ages, and the water where I Lived then was ultra hard. So I built a still and made my own. I used a pressure cooker, High temp hose and copper tubing. I could make 5 gal an evening on the kitchen stove.
After I finished distilling the water I distilled some corn, some wheat, and some molasses. They all tasted better than the water. Wife threw the thing away when we moved.

[toallmy]

That's what I was thinking , if I distilled anything I would go through the trouble to make mash first .

[popper]

The DE ionized water we used as a cleaner for a high power laser cooling system. Very aggressive solvent don't stick your hand in it.

[scottfire1957]

I've been Ultrasonic cleaning brass cases for only a few months, but have started getting some odd results.

I made a solution of distilled water and cirtic acid obtained from a wine making store. Results were fantastic!

I filter the solution after a few uses by pouring it through paper towel in a funnel, then letting the liquid sit for a day or more. It gets a thick black precipitate on the bottom. I pour off the clearer liquid and use it for cleaning, and this has been working quite well for a few months.

The last few weeks when I cleaned my .45 cases, they come out multi-colored brass. I use Tarn-X to remove this coloring. The odd thing is my .38 brass still comes perfectly fine from the exact same solution. The cases are mostly Federal brass, but contain others as well.

So, is the solution just wearing out, or what???


Think of it this way: do you use your bath water for more than one bath?

[GhostHawk]

LOL

I use tap water, make up just enough for each batch I am doing. A drop or 2 of dawn, hot water from the tap and 2 or 3 sprinkles of CA.

Total cycle time less than half an hour. In that time it will get 3 or 4 swirls to mix and make sure all is even.
Then a double rinse and a towel dry as I clean primer pockets.

Once I am done it goes down the drain. I have yet to go through my first container of Citric Acid.
If you are worried about calcium add another 1/8th of a teaspoon of CA and forgetaboutit.

Life is too short.

[Shiloh]

Brass has zinc in it. Yes, the PH of your citric acid will be depleted. Simple reason is the reaction with the meta neutralizes it over time.
Same thing with my sodium bisulfate Sparex jewelry pickle. A minor sulfuric acid.

If there is steel contamination in your solution, it will also react and create colorful oxides.

Shiloh

[DerekP Houston]

Think of it this way: do you use your bath water for more than one bath?

depends how many family members are lined up to use the tub! :kidding:


For my SS pins I dump the solution each time and rinse. Big container of lemi-shine has lasted me a long time.

[Intel6]

I use a gallon of water, 1 oz of Armor-All Ultra Wash and Wax and 1/8 teaspoon of Lemishine for each batch
There are a lot of 1/8 teaspoons in a container of Lemishine and as well as a bunch of ounces in the Armor-All. After giving brass its rinse I don't end up with spots

I do the exact same thing. I started using citric acid in place of the lemishine, get it in the canning section.

[Walter Laich]

I do the exact same thing. I started using citric acid in place of the lemishine, get it in the canning section.

I'm still working on first jar--doesn't look like I've used any at all.

I know instructions from STM (vendor here) says every so often just run pins through a cycle without brass to clean them. I think that means reusing the liquid would hasten the accumulation of **** on the pins--but to each his own.