Problems with new Mold

[Themoose]

Guess I am showing my age for sure, but have been having brain cramps and farts all afternoon... I am not new to casting(about 40 years, but with larger calibers and shotgun slugs) but have run into a problem that has me scratching my bald head...looked here in the forum for answers, and most likely it is right there, I'm just too tired(or dumb) to see it.... here goes...

Set out to cast some 314299's with a new Lyman Mold.... set up the PID melted down the soft lead in the pot and cast it into ingots while cleaning and degreasing the new mold... lightly smoked the interior of the two cavities with a lighter. applied bullplate to the sprue pivot and locating pins very sparingly.. filled the pot what I think was straight wheelweight ingots(had lead inventory coded and on my computer, but got hit by lightning and no back up(of course).. anyway... melted the lead and fluxed... while doing this; set mold on top to pre-heat... when ready, I dipped the corner of the blocks into the melt for about 15 seconds and proceeded.... cast@ 760F.... never waivered over +/- 5F using bottom pour Lyman 20lb pot...into Lyman double cavity gas check mold.... initially had problems with fill out, but seemed to get better after the first 10 or so pours...I normally like to ladle pour from open pot as I do for shotgun slugs and large bore bullets, but with the double cavity smaller holes I decided to use the bottom pour... to finally get the point... after a few hours and a couple hundred bullets cast they are not filling out well near the ogive... the grease grooves and gas check shank look sharp... the weights run around 203-204 gr... but the diameters are running small... only .311 to .312... the inspection date on the mold had 2013....not sure if this was before or after Lyman was supposed to have had issues...

What am I missing? Do I need to bump the heat up higher? Try another lot of lead? I know that hardness changes with age, does diameter also change?? any chance it will "grow".? Sorry to sound like a complete dumb..s, but that's the way I feel... any help you can provide will be much appreciated.

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

[s mac]

Probably won't help the diameter any but I would suggest you go back to the ladle. But then I'm a ladle caster. Seems like I get a better fillout with problematic moulds.

[WALLNUTT]

When a mould is a little balky I resort to pressure casting. Try holding the mould in contact with the spigot. After a couple of sessions it may get better.

[plainsman456]

Might try a little lower temp.
Are you putting the mold against the spout?
Are you swirling the melt in the mold?

These things have worked on a few of mine that were not turning out good boolits.

[Themoose]

I did pressure cast with the bottom pour... as far as the ladle cast... not sure my old shaky hands can pour steady enough. I tried a few the way Paul Mathews described in one of his books, keeping the ladle in contact with the mold while rocking both slightly as you pour......but could only fill one cavity with that method...then over splash would block the fill of the second cavity... but thanks for the ideas guys

[sigep1764]

When i had an issue with fillout on a new aluminum mold, i boiled it for 20 min. Used a can of compressed air to blow it out and let it sit for an hour. It got a little patina on it. Bolted it back together and lubed it. Ran like a champ. I do it every 3 or 4k boolits now. You said lyman so that makes me think iron. Maybe some acetone and a little flame on it then try again.

[runfiverun]

line up the hole with the spout and pour your stream quickly straight into the cavity.
the pot has head pressure.
if your stopping or dribbling into the mold the smaller nose doesn't heat the mold as efficiently as the larger diameter base bands.
I don't run my pots that hot, the molds temperature is what counts.

oh,,,,, clean the smoke gunk out of your mold.

[billyb]

I have and cast a lot of the 314299, I can size mine 313 with no problem. Try loosening your sprue plate a little, it does not need to be tight. I take all new molds and look at the cavities under magnification and look for burrs or blockage in the vent lines. A dental pick is useful in cleaning the vents. You may need a little tin in your alloy. I never smoke the cavities on my molds, did not seem to help me. Bill

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

A brand new mold...eh...
I've found that sometimes, a brand new mold needs a few casting sessions to start casting good. I'd clean the smoke out of the cavities with a toothbrush and hot water and dish soap...then I'd preheat the mold and try casting...then take a break, allow the mold to cool ...then heat 'er up and try casting some more.
You'll notice a heat stain type of patina start to form after a few sessions...that's when it should start casting better.
that's my 2¢
Jon

[Echo]

Speaking out my hat - Lyman supposedly checks their molds with Lyman #2 alloy, a pretty hard alloy that doesn't shrink as much as pure lead, or WW+2%Sn. That could be the problem...

[MT Chambers]

Two words: add Tin and Heat
When all is said and done don't be surprised if they drop small, with alot of molds its a crapshoot.

[bangerjim]

Do not use the old school method of "warming" your mold by just sitting it on top of the pot and dipping the corner in the pot. It will not get hot enough! The new and improved AND proven way (on here by tons of people) to pre-heat your molds is using a electric hotplate. Heat your molds to FULL CASTING TEMP, not just warm, as they will always be on your pot.

I do that and get perfect wrinkle-free fills from the 1st drop - - -with brass, aluminum and FE-based molds of all sizes. You long boolits are trickery than others.

Pre-heat as above and all you problems will just be unpleasant memories.

And a bit more Sn may help you out also.

banger

[Premod70]

Do not use the old school method of "warming" your mold by just sitting it on top of the pot and dipping the corner in the pot. It will not get hot enough! The new and improved AND proven way (on here by tons of people) to pre-heat your molds is using a electric hotplate. Heat your molds to FULL CASTING TEMP, not just warm, as they will always be on your pot.

I do that and get perfect wrinkle-free fills from the 1st drop - - -with brass, aluminum and FE-based molds of all sizes. You long boolits are trickery than others.

Pre-heat as above and all you problems will just be unpleasant memories.

And a bit more Sn may help you out also.

banger
+1, those long skinny bullets don't take up much area in the mold thus less heat output.

[Pee Wee]

Two words: add Tin and Heat
When all is said and done don't be surprised if they drop small, with alot of molds its a crapshoot.
MT got it Cast at 800 degrees and ad about 6 feet of 60/40 or 50/50 solder and should fill right out and drop at designed diameter.

[Yodogsandman]

Clean the mold halves with an alcohol swab and preheat the mold. A cheap hot plate works great for this. Lower the heat of the pot to about 700*F-725*F. Add a little tin or pewter, maybe 2 or 3 ounces. Cast boolits as fast as you can, don't stop to admire them. Cast until the boolit surfaces all come out with a satin grey patina or frosted look, then you can slow down your cadence and you can then start looking them over as you cast. This will bring your mold up to proper temperature. If you still have wrinkles, let everything cool down and try again later or the next day. Sometimes the processing oils in a new mold will take a couple of casting sessions to fully burn out. You'll notice each session will have fewer and fewer rejects. Most new molds need at least some break in before they cast great.

Wait at least a week to decide if the boolits drop too small if you air cool them. The boolits will continue to "grow" some if the alloy has antimony in it, as it age hardens. The more antimony in the alloy, the larger the boolit will cast (up to a certain point).

[mozeppa]

hot plate

tin

clean mold.


sometimes i like to VERY LIGHTLY dust the cavities with dry graphite spray.

[Themoose]

Update: Cleaned mold well with acetone(actually did three times to make sure it was clean).. Changed alloy and went back to pot and ladle.... got mold hot and cast nice looking bullets... cast fast and they filled out nicely.... checked some after about 100 cast and diameter is still running .311-312.... I stopped, cooled mold, added some linotype(I think) brought back to temp and fluxed... resumed casting... cast nice looking bullets, fill was good... checked after about 50 cast... diameter is still running at .311-312 from the Lyman Mould that is supposed to be .314299... I had just bought a .313 die for lube sizing and thought I would try some out just by hand... they did not "free fall thru, but were easily pushed thru the die with very light pressure... the only contact seemed to be where the two halves of the mold met and it was very very faint...

Letting everything cool down before I return for another session... I had wanted to run the bullets thru the sizer to get .313, but guess I should try some at the .311-.312 in my rifles to see how they perform... but have a couple questions about lubing.

1. If I run the undersize bullets thru the 450 will I have excess lube covering the bullet since there is at least a .001 gap?

2. I do have a bottle of alox, but have never tried it.. anyone have any tips on how I apply it?? Do I seat gas checks first then cover or cover, let dry then add the checks..

At this time I plan on casting with the mold as is to see if it will come around... I have "Beagled" larger caliber pistol molds in the past, but don't think that is a good option on .30 cal mold... any other suggestions on how I can increase the bullet diameter before abandoning this mold for a larger one?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well, it sure does seem like you have an undersized mold.

If you are a patient man, set aside some of the boolits (as cast) that were cast after you added the lino, as alloys with higher antimony content tend to grow with age. Let's see what they measure in 4 weeks.

[Yodogsandman]

There shouldn't be any problem over lubing with a sizing die just .001" larger than the "as cast" diameter. In a while, I think those boolits will grow to fit into your sizer die.

For Lee Liquid Alox, I size and GC the boolits prior to tumbling. I put about 50 boolits into an old plastic ice cream tub, add a 50 cent piece size puddle of the Lee Liquid Alox and swish and swirl them around to coat them. Then I dump them onto wax paper, separate them and let dry overnight.

If you continue to have small boolits, you could lightly lap your mold out larger. Another option would be to get the NOE 314299 version that will cast to the right size.

[Themoose]

Thanks guys again for the info.... just came up from the man cave after another session.... mold is casting nice looking bullets for sure.... I know they are still soft, but just for the heck of it, I screwed in the H&I .313 die into the 450 and seated gas checks on about a half dozen...more to check check fit than anything, but I did notice that there is some sizing taking place... not sure if I am "bumping" it up, but the driving band is shiny full circle.... As far as the NOE mold goes, I tried to order last week, but they were out of the gc version.... guess "haste may have made waste" in this case.... I was also contemplating having Veral Smith make me a mold(LBT).... think I will let these age a little and see how they shoot, both sized and unsized....

once again, thanks for your help... I do appreciate your experience.

[Walter Laich]

surprised BangerJim didn't mention it but powder coating PC will add to the diameter of those bullets. Course it's another skill to master but not hard.
get #5 container (recycle number on bottom--Cool Whip is what many use). Put bullets, a few Airsoft BBs (to cushion the bullets--not absolutely required) and a couple of spoons of PC powder in and swirl around for 30 seconds then flip container over several times (holding on to top). Pull them out with needle nosed plyers or such and put on non-stick aluminum foil. In a toaster oven set at 400F for 20 minutes. Done and no need to lube. Still have to size but you have to do that anyway.
don't use toaster oven that you use for food! nasty stuff is given off when cooking
also check temp in oven with an oven thermometer $6 from wally world. oven's dials are usually way off from real temp
there's a sub-section on PC on this forum

[Lagamor]

^That's a good point. While reading thru the whole thread I didn't even think about PC.

[HangFireW8]

Yet another victim of Lyman's obsolete diameter paradigm. They expect you to use Lyman #2 (lots and lots of tin), pressure cast, and be happy with results at an exact diameter of an ideally sized barrel.

[popper]

Like R5R says, pour faster. Pot spout may be getting clogged with crud which causes a dribble vs a good stream. Casting some long 30 cal the other nite, dribble = bad nose, good flow and they are nice. Opposite problem with too fast a flow, alloy piles on top of sprue plate and stops venting of bases. Ladle casting allows flow control and pulling alloy from hot ladle vs cooling sprue.

[Themoose]

Beagled the mold with the aluminum tape and only got another .001... will try them after I lube them to see how they work... I ladled only, used the hotplate to preheat the mold... bullets quickly filled out nicely... nice sharp edges on lube grooves and gas check shank.... just think the mold is too small... only used tape on one side... thinking tape is not the answer... only cast about 100 bullets and tape changed positions.... but like I said, I will try some in the rifles to see how they perform... thinking next step is to either sell or trade mold, try PC or perhaps send to Eric to see about opening them up and maybe do a hollowpoint and a flatpoint... but, that is way down the road... need some range time when I can get out... thanks again to all for your help.

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

[Iowa Fox]

Thanks guys again for the info.... just came up from the man cave after another session.... mold is casting nice looking bullets for sure.... I know they are still soft, but just for the heck of it, I screwed in the H&I .313 die into the 450 and seated gas checks on about a half dozen...more to check check fit than anything, but I did notice that there is some sizing taking place... not sure if I am "bumping" it up, but the driving band is shiny full circle.... As far as the NOE mold goes, I tried to order last week, but they were out of the gc version.... guess "haste may have made waste" in this case.... I was also contemplating having Veral Smith make me a mold(LBT).... think I will let these age a little and see how they shoot, both sized and unsized....

once again, thanks for your help... I do appreciate your experience.


Everyone should have at least one of Verals molds in their collection before he quits making them.