38 Special "Dead" Cylinder

[LakeviewBulldog]

I just started reloading 38 special for my Colt Detective Special 3rd Generation pistol. I loaded a Lee .358 125gr boolit over 3.2gr of Titegeoup to an OAL of 1.44" with CCI small pistol primers. The problem I am having is that whenever I am shooting double action one of the cylinders won't fire. Shooting single action it will fire all cylinders. Shooting factory ammo it will shoot all cylinders on double action. It just seems to be my handloads in one cylinder on double action fire. I'm getting light hammer strikes on the primer on that one cylinder. I'm guessing that since the factory ammo shoots fine that it's something that I'm doing/not doing. Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Dan Cash]

Is the failure to fire always on the same chamber? I presume you only have one cylinder for your revolver. Does the failed cartridge have a dent in the center of the primer? Answer those two questions and it will help diagnose your problem. Most likely, you are not completely seating your primers or your revolver may not like the brand of primers you are using. If not an ammo problem, you need a Colt revolver smith.

[LakeviewBulldog]

Yes, its the same chamber every time. And if I run it through again on single action it will fire fine.

[Char-Gar]

Sure...change primers. CCI are notoriously hard. Change to Winchester, Federal or Remington and most likely the pesky misfire will go away.

[9.3X62AL]

What Char-Gar said. Most DetSpecs don't get fired a lot, not enough to cause misfires from wear-out. These were/are +P certified. Change out those granite-hard CCI primers and things should go well. If not, some shade-tree gunsmith may have monkeyed with the internals. Most of those problems occur in more than one cylinder, though.

[LakeviewBulldog]

I'll have to try some Federal Match primers then. This pistol was a nice find when I was younger. It was purchased new in the 70's and put in a sock drawer and I purchased it in the mid 2000's. Really pristine pistol. I just like to take it out and put 100 rounds through it every now and then. Thanks.

[9.3X62AL]

OK, NOW I'll wager some folding money on the outcome--no need for "match" primers, just a softer cup metal like those Charles spoke of above. CCI have always been the easiest primer make to find locally (inland southern CA) for me, with W-W a fair second place. R-P have always been scarce, as have Federal, both only found at reloading specialty shops--which aren't on every corner. CCI primers are good products--just harder than woodpecker lips, in all of their ideations.

JMHO, but the 3rd-series DetSpecs are to me the BEST snub-nose 38 Special ever marketed in this country. +P rating, 6 shots, beautifully finished, and Swiss-watch lockwork. Jewels.

[DougGuy]

After firing, see if spent cases from the other chambers will go into the chamber that gets light strikes. This may alert you to an anomaly in that one chamber which prevents the ammo from fully seating and then when the firing pin hits it, it seats the rest of the way but does not fire.

[Harter66]

It probably is primers and either a hardness or seating issue. Simple fix check your seating . New or cleaned brass? If not cleaned or new are your pockets clean or fouled ? (Say 4-6 cycles) Hand primer or press ? Correct primer cup and seating stem ? Any 1 or combination of these will keep the primer from bottoming solid, and can cause a misfire .
Always start cheap when trouble shooting.

Brass . If the rims are on the thin side ,either as a manufacturing fault or as a wear fault or as a particular manufacturer standard you can have misfires also.

Dirt this is to often over looked . Wash everything in the hammer slot and firing pin holes . I aquired a 1917 Colts that was misbehaving I fussed with it and the more I messed with it the dirtier it got . At some point KISS kicked in and I got a plastic cake box and dumped my gallon of CLP in it and with the grips off dropped it in over night . Flipping it on my way to bed . The next day I cycled it 20 or 30 times submerged in the solution on each side and then at various angles immersed to the trigger guard . After that I washed it out with an aerosol oil of some sort . The 12x15 cake box had a film of settled crud with spots and pools of dirt . In all honesty I didn't know that much crud could get in a gun . Later as o was drying out all of the creeped in oil I knocked a chunk of metal out of the frame .it seems the gap between frame and bbl extension had become impacted with lead. That inspired another pressure cleaning where a little more crud washed out . Upon test firing all of the bugs were gone .

Last point gun wear .
This is where things can get expensive. ......or not.
Select 6 1x cases.
Get out your feeler gauges.
Empty check the cyl end play, I don't know Colts but up to .02 is probably ok .
Hold the cylinder all the way back to the recoil shield Unloaded see what fits in the bbl/cyl gap .004-.01 is normal .015 is wide in most cases. Repeat with it held all the way forward . .002-.004 is good .008 getting wide .
Next put your 1x in the chambers hold the cyl forward .004 is the thumb standard for headspace . If you have up over .008 on any chamber after moving your 1x brass each case to each chamber get a correct headspace gauge or see your smith.

Try a couple of different brands of brass . Here's why.
If you should have a minimum tolerance crane in a maximum tolerance frame with a short cyl and a short firing pin and a little wear it is possible that a batch of thin rimmed brass just might be the straw and the camel . It's called tolerance stacking .

My lessons from all of the above? Probably you won't need any of the last part if you do the wash part 1st.
KISS
Clean it first . Go to extremes of cleaning especially if it's 2nd hand . Clean it even if it's new a filing and some grease in the right place will cause problems.
Let it soak wash, it out drown it cycle it was it out.
Always suspect dirt 1st.

[Char-Gar]

I'll have to try some Federal Match primers then. This pistol was a nice find when I was younger. It was purchased new in the 70's and put in a sock drawer and I purchased it in the mid 2000's. Really pristine pistol. I just like to take it out and put 100 rounds through it every now and then. Thanks.

The Federal Match SP and Federal SP are the same primers. When they are sorted, the most uniform in size are labeled "Match" and have a higher price.

As a general rule CCI are fine primers, but they are harder and when you have a revolver that is iffy in double action they can be a problem. As you know the hammer fall in DA is shorter than in SA.

BTW..The little 6 shot Colts are great. Here is my 3" DS.

[rondog]

Possible there's carbon in that one chamber that's keeping the rounds from seating fully? That might cause light strikes when the hammer shoves the round all the way in.

Just a thought.....

[Guesser]

I had that happen with a 1928 Police Positive Special in 38 Special; same "D" frame as the Detective Special. I marked the chamber with yellow marker on the rear of the cylinder and tried most everything from cleaning to changing primers and powder. I finally located a new "V" main spring and changed that out and it works now. But I have 2 other Colts that are doing it now.

[ole 5 hole group]

Same charge hole every time would be puzzling but as long as all rounds go to point of aim, I'd just switch to Federal primers and never wonder about it again.


Anytime I think my handgun or rifle ammunition must go bang - that ammo will be loaded with Federal primers. If I just need the bullets to go into the same hole then any brand primer will do but I'll need someone to shoot the group.;)

[LakeviewBulldog]

I will have to try the deep cleaning. I am hand priming them with a Hornady hand primer. They are all once fired brass of different headstamps that have been SS pin tumbled, spotless primer pockets. I didn't think to check and see if it was all the same headstamp brass that was acting up. I'll do a deep clean and try seating my primers a little firmer. This is the first revolver I've ever reloaded for. My 45 ACPs haven't had a failure to fire or feed in several thousand rounds now. I'll try try the KISS method. It's a great little revolver, more accurate than it had any right to be.

[FergusonTO35]

How old are the CCI primers? CCI and Remington small pistol primers became hard as rocks around 2008, I think they started adding small rifle primers to get them out the door. Sometimes I would have as many as 13 bad ones in a tray. Didn't matter which gun, which caliber, or how I seated them. Now, CCI primers I have bought that were made this year have been great, 100% reliable in all my pistols.

[35remington]

The primers I have found with the softest, thinnest cups are the Remington 1 1/2.

If impact is sub par look into getting it altered. A shallow strike isn't good even with sensitive primers.

[Scharfschuetze]

The primers I have found with the softest, thinnest cups are the Remington 1 1/2.

If impact is sub par look into getting it altered. A shallow strike isn't good even with sensitive primers.

Spot on that.

During my pistol team days, most officers using modified PPC revolvers with tuned and lightened actions used the Remington 1 1/2 SP primer. It is the perfect primer for the small 32s and 38 Specials.

You might also check your firing pin's length and see if it is in specs for proper ignition and perhaps your main spring's strength too. My experience with the small Colt revolvers is that they were never too finicky about using the various primer brands.

[DougGuy]

My firing pin test is a #2 lead pencil dropped down the bore on it's eraser and launched upwards. A healthy 1911 will send it 5 or 6 feet into the air. A weak firing pin might not even launch it out of the bore. A decent response would be to launch it clear of the bore by a couple of feet. A weak response will have it only moving about 6" or so.

I have a Uberti single action that would for whatever reason only bump the pencil a few inches. It also got light strikes and very erratic velocities. I replaced the spring with a new spring from the factory, same thing. Silverjackhammer sent me one of the Colt "cobra" mainsprings that cured the problem. The pencil will now exit the bore a foot or two, no more light strikes and shooting very nice groups with the same ammo that was all over the place before.

You couldn't test your one suspect hole double action with the pencil but you could check it in single action.

[country gent]

Not sure does the colt have recessed chabers for the rim? If so measure the rim cuts depth and see how the problem chambers depth is compared to the others. A deeper cut may be giving extra room to lighten the blow. Another is if thisis a used gun, has a trigger job been done? SOme lightened springs to get that light pull and this caused light hammer strikes also. Ive seen sprngs lightened to the point only 3 of 5 rounds fired. Softer primers will help but if you use factopry self defense ammo in it you have no control of the primers and the issue can be back. I would check the springs (maybe even replace the main spring with a new full power one the try it. Cylinder and slide shop may have a spring kit or wulff springs may have them.

[Plate plinker]

Clean it really good first. Really well like you clean yourself.

[osteodoc08]

Clean it well and make sure the strain screw is tight (assuming it's like every other smith I've had). *Edit* Oops, just saw its a Colt. I'd check the springs and make sure the firing pin is in spec

make sure there is no significant end play.

Then consider changing primers, but it's odd it's always on the same chamber

[Low Budget Shooter]

A while back I bought some S&B primers at Cabela's when there were no Federal SPP anywhere. My light-striking PPS and Cobra that need Federal primers are setting off the S&B 100% so far.

[LakeviewBulldog]

The primers were brand new CCI. I'll have to try the pencil trick and try and nail down the problem. Lots of good advice. Thank you all.

[smkummer]

Check that one pesky chamber in the 6 of that cylinder. The end of the chamber could have a lead build up, just enough to let the cartridge seat low enough so as to let the cylinder turn but offering some cushion when the primer is hit. I just went through almost all of my D-frame revolvers and I use empty brass cases with the primer hole drilled out and properly seated CCI primers as a gauge to make sure the Colt revolver will fire double action. If it fires CCI in double action, its good to carry. I believe in the 60's though the 80's, every cop and gunsmith knew the trick to lighten the V-spring on a Colt. Now I am returning those guns back to original specs with rebending the mainspring back or replacing it. I had a diamondback that I just now got firing 100% with a new mainspring. Its spring was weakened way to much.

[LakeviewBulldog]

Wanted to give an update. I took the grips off the pistol and soaked it in Hoppes for about an hour. I was kind of amazed at the gunk that was at the bottom of the bag when I took it out. I oiled it and took it back out to the range and lo and behold.... not a single malfunction. There just must have been a little bit of lead or carbon fouling that was causing the problem. I'll pay much more attention to cleaning it in the future. I guess I got so used to cleaning my XD that I didn't pay enough attention to the details. Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. Thank you.

[JSnover]

I'm not a revolver guy so pardon my ignorance, my first thought was possibly a worn notch on the ratchet. I see it was cured by cleaning but why would that not be suspect, since the problem was specific to one chamber?

[Harter66]

The 1917 Colts taught me a valuable lesson about gunk in revolvers. Compared to autos there are about 100 gapping holes to shovel in dirt,lint,etc . Rarely is it hard carbon or lead like an auto slide but soft gritty stuff that sticks to the oil and gets tracked inside . It's not a huge problem but a carry gun should probably have a deep cleaning bath every 5 yr whether it needs it or not .

I once had a lead build up in the bbl hood slide cut of a Hi Power clone . It too required the soak and pick deep cleaning as well .

[Char-Gar]

Wanted to give an update. I took the grips off the pistol and soaked it in Hoppes for about an hour. I was kind of amazed at the gunk that was at the bottom of the bag when I took it out. I oiled it and took it back out to the range and lo and behold.... not a single malfunction. There just must have been a little bit of lead or carbon fouling that was causing the problem. I'll pay much more attention to cleaning it in the future. I guess I got so used to cleaning my XD that I didn't pay enough attention to the details. Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. Thank you.

Glad you got it going again. Over the years, I have known several revolvers, Colt and S&W that misfired due to old oil and grease buildup. this stuff will eventually soften the hammer blow and/or mess up the timing. I thoroughly clean the insides of every used revolver that comes my way. It is so routine, I guess I thought everybody did it. I keep forgetting I am living in autopistol times.

[Char-Gar]

The 1917 Colts taught me a valuable lesson about gunk in revolvers. Compared to autos there are about 100 gapping holes to shovel in dirt,lint,etc . Rarely is it hard carbon or lead like an auto slide but soft gritty stuff that sticks to the oil and gets tracked inside . It's not a huge problem but a carry gun should probably have a deep cleaning bath every 5 yr whether it needs it or not .

I once had a lead build up in the bbl hood slide cut of a Hi Power clone . It too required the soak and pick deep cleaning as well .

Your post reminded me of something that happened in 1966. I was in my favorite gunstore (Kenlees in South Houston), when a Houston PD Captain brought in his service revolver, because it wouldn't fire when he went to his semi-yearly qualification.

Ken was busy and asked me to take the revolver in the back and see what was the problem. I removed the cylinder (Smith and Wesson) and removed the side plate. The inside was packed with a hard white substance. I removed all the internals and gave the parts and frame a through cleaning. I reassembled, re-lubed and the revolver was good to go.

I handed the revolver back to the Captain and he asked me what was the problem. I told him the inside was packed with a hard white substance that smelled a little like ice cream. He had a sheepish look on his face and told me he had dropped his ice cream cone on the holstered pistol a few months before, but the got it all off.

If he had needed that revolver, he would have been in a world of hurt.

[Rick Hodges]

I had a S&W Model 66 lock up on me...turned out to be a bit of bronze bore brush got into the cylinder bolt cutout and migrated so the hand wouldn't move.
I like the Ice Cream story...probably better than dropping it in a pot of chili. :bigsmyl2:

[Scharfschuetze]

I handed the revolver back to the Captain and he asked me what was the problem. I told him the inside was packed with a hard white substance that smelled a little like ice cream. He had a sheepish look on his face and told me he had dropped his ice cream cone on the holstered pistol a few months before, but the got it all off.

That's a hoot and brings back several memories. During my tenure as a firearms training officer on a police department, I found lots of lint, dirt and even brass cleaning brush bristles inside officer's revolvers. Most officers are not really gun people, so it was interesting sometimes keeping their ordnance going.

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir, wheelguns can get gunked up over time. Mine get a Hoppe's Hose-Out yearly if used/carried much. Desert grit and lake bed dust can combine into a shag-nasty concoction that will tie up a mechanism right proper. If it could be harvested in some way, it might be just the thing to try for fire-lapping a barrel choke point, but I just want it gone/prevented.

Ice cream.......that's one I never saw as rangemaster.

[DougGuy]

Wanted to give an update. I took the grips off the pistol and soaked it in Hoppes for about an hour. I was kind of amazed at the gunk that was at the bottom of the bag when I took it out. I oiled it and took it back out to the range and lo and behold.... not a single malfunction. There just must have been a little bit of lead or carbon fouling that was causing the problem. I'll pay much more attention to cleaning it in the future. I guess I got so used to cleaning my XD that I didn't pay enough attention to the details. Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. Thank you.

I bet yer pencil flies out the bore now! :bigsmyl2:

[victorfox]

My brand new taurus judge old stock (2011) bought last year wasn't worth beans when I got it (well, taurus itself isn't worth peanuts, but it's what we have in brazil -- not supposed to get imports anytime soon...) and misfired, cylinder spinned free, all that would make me want to throw that thing away. Just cleaned inside out and removed some black crud that was probably some dried grease and it shoots like a champ now (taurus-wise, I mean...). And oiled it well. As Spaniards say: Aceite es media maquina (oiling is half the machine)...

[Scharfschuetze]

As Spaniards say: Aceite es media maquina (oiling is half the machine)...

Es la verdad mi amigo. (That's the truth my friend)

[MT Gianni]

I'm not a revolver guy so pardon my ignorance, my first thought was possibly a worn notch on the ratchet. I see it was cured by cleaning but why would that not be suspect, since the problem was specific to one chamber?
That would lead to cylinder indexing problems not necessarily not firing problems. Easily visible with a non centered primer strike in a severe case and spitting lead when fired in most cases.