Still having problems w/ Lee six cavity...

[Bad Karma]

It seems that no matter what I do to this mould I still have a 75% boolit loss. I just degreased the mould again, smoked it and then changed alloys from Lynotype to wheel weights. The mould is the 9mm 124gr T/C.

I've been casting for quite sometime...15 years. The only gang mould experience I have is with my Saeco 4 cavity brass mould. It's a very easy to use and reliable mould.

Well, here's the symptoms: rounded edges in the grease groove is the most common, wrinkles, partially filled cavities.

What I'm doing: I emptied the smelter, a Lee production pot. Put in the wheel weight ingots I made. Let it get really hot! Set the pot to 10. Imersed the mould (after degreasing and smoking). The boolits are hot enough to frost after being tapped out easily from the mould. The venting grooves look more like circular tooling marks. Even if I get it hot enough to leave fins on the boolits I still get incomplete fills.:confused:

I flux the alloy with Marvelux.

I got a reply once about cutting with a file to allow venting. Can anyone send me a pic of a properly modified mould? I feel like a newbie but I cast many, many boolits with mostly single and double cavity moulds. My best are my old Ideal moulds. Can someone send me some ideas?

Respect![smilie=b:

[dromia]

I'd have a look at MtWeathermans Leementing post here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=654

Especially post No. 17 where he describes opening up the venting lines.

The addition of tin also helps fill out.

[Buckshot]

" Put in the wheel weight ingots I made. Let it get really hot! Set the pot to 10."

If my Lee 20 pounder is any indication, a full pot and set to 10 sold yeild an alloy temp closely approching or a tad over 900*. Pleanty of heat. I take it you've degreased our mould a couple times, so that shouldn't be a problem. You've floated the blocks on the alloy before casting, so they should be up to temp.

When you cast your first couple of drops, did it take awhile for the sprue to setup? Ie: Stayed liquid for a bit? You're pouring a good healthy sprue puddle? Your boolits should be perfect. Possibly with an overall crystaline effect. Do you have a thermometer just to be sure? Have you cast with this alloy before? If not, do you have another mould to try?

.................Buckshot

[Echo]

If the boolits aren't filling out to sharp edges,I suggest adding some tin to lower the surface tension. Not much - more than 3% tin is wasteful - less than 2% can cause the problems you are describing (in my experience), as well as a too-cold mold.

EasyEd

[Bret4207]

Sounds like it's hot enough and clean enough. Leementing might do the trick and tin won't hurt. I'd refrain from adding more venting. Could be you have a lemon. Do you have any other moulds to try the alloy with?

[Maven]

BK, The above advice is all good, but I have to ask whether you use a ladle or not and whether you've smoked the cavities real well, especially near the bases? I use a ladle, but have to refill it after pouring the first 3 cavs. and then pour anew #s 4-6. Also, it helps to heat the mold by filling 2 cavs. at a time, starting with the first two and progressing to the last two for ~4-5 times. Btw, thinking I'd water drop my CB's, I ran the melt @ 800 deg. F, but found I had more rejects at that temperature. Start hot if you wish, but drop back to ~740-750 deg. once you get perfect bases.

[Bad Karma]

" Put in the wheel weight ingots I made. Let it get really hot! Set the pot to 10."

If my Lee 20 pounder is any indication, a full pot and set to 10 sold yeild an alloy temp closely approching or a tad over 900*. Pleanty of heat. I take it you've degreased our mould a couple times, so that shouldn't be a problem. You've floated the blocks on the alloy before casting, so they should be up to temp.

When you cast your first couple of drops, did it take awhile for the sprue to setup? Ie: Stayed liquid for a bit? You're pouring a good healthy sprue puddle? Your boolits should be perfect. Possibly with an overall crystaline effect. Do you have a thermometer just to be sure? Have you cast with this alloy before? If not, do you have another mould to try?

.................Buckshot

Yes,this is my standard alloy. Once fluxed it drops really nice boolits. The spue took about 10 seconds to set up. I think there is a venting problem.

[mtgrs737]

I'd do a test beagle with a strip of aluminum foil to see if increasing the blocks venting would yeild a better fill out. I have that mould and I have no problems after leementing it to help get the boolits to fall out. Good luck!

[GabbyM]

This is what I've done to both my Lee six cavity moulds for venting.
Beware you could ruin your mould with a slip up here.
Simply break the top edge of the mould blocks for an air vent line. Old trick.
You'll want to remove your blocks from the handles so you can be very dexterous. Take a long smooth flat file. Lay the file at a 45 degree angle along the entire edge of the blocks and take a one inch stroke. That should do it. When you can see the sharp edge gone you're done. To much and you'll end up with fins on your bullets.

Also don't have the spur plate to tight. You should be able to lift it a little under the spring washer tension. As long s it's not lifting on you it's not to loose.

The extra vent line should give flat bases as opposed to those concave basses with the spur nipple sticking up. Along with much improved groove fill out.

I'm no fan of Lee moulds.

[happy7]

Maybe post some pictures of the offending bullets? That might help someone see what is happening.

[454PB]

What bothers me is you say you get wrinkles and partially filled cavities, yet the alloy and mould are hot enough to drop frosty boolits. Wrinkles are a sign the mould is too cold, frosty is a sight it's too hot. Have you tried preheating the mould with a hotplate or propane torch? Could one end of the mould (the end you dip in the hot alloy) be hotter than the other end? Those dinky little boolits don't add much heat to a six cavity mould.

[Bad Karma]

What bothers me is you say you get wrinkles and partially filled cavities, yet the alloy and mould are hot enough to drop frosty boolits. Wrinkles are a sign the mould is too cold, frosty is a sight it's too hot. Have you tried preheating the mould with a hotplate or propane torch? Could one end of the mould (the end you dip in the hot alloy) be hotter than the other end? Those dinky little boolits don't add much heat to a six cavity mould.

I havent tried a hot plate or a torch. I know those little 9mm pills don't do much for heating the mould. I really think it's a venting issue. When I get the mould too hot the alloy pours out the bottom. When it cools enough to not flow out I get fins and partially filled cavities and rounded grease grooves.

I called Lee today and talked to a guy named "Dave" he seemed irritated that I even bothered to call them. Well, I was less than impressed with their over the phone help to be sure. He sounded like he was around when rocks were still soft. I'll take a few pics and post them here in a few.

[happy7]

I wonder if your mold is warped or is closing well, because even when I run my pot full temp and frost bullets really bad I have never gotten finning with my Lee 6 cavs.

[MT Gianni]

Ricochet had a great post on 6 cavity Lee's. If you hold the sprue plate handle when you grip the mold handles you can cause enough stress on the blocks to force them apart and cause some finning. Gianni

[Bad Karma]

Maybe post some pictures of the offending bullets? That might help someone see what is happening.


Let's see if this helps...

The one on the left has rounded edges, the middle one does too but not as bad, the third is self explanitory. The two pics are of the mould halves.

[IcerUSA]

I would check to mack sure the mould halves are flat , use something with a good flat edge on it and check with a light source , do it when the mould is cold and also once it is up to temp . Also check the pins to make sure they are adjusted right , I've had to set mine in a little with a new mould .
In the photos it looks like you are squeezing the sprue plate handle maybe .
I did the Lee instructions on my first couple of moulds then I found this site and the Leementing stickie and now I don't follow Lee's instructions , use a little of Bull Sprue Plate Lube and run my moulds dry , no smoke , and they drop fine .
As others have said , loosen the sprue attach bolt a tad , mine all swing very easy after it comes off from under the hold down bolt . I never hold the sprue handle , just the mould handles .
10 seconds to get the gray color on the sprue should be good , 8 might be a little better and I pour a big sprue on mine .
Have you used alcohol to clean the mould , I had 1 mould that didn't want to work till I cleaned it a couple times with alcohol , don't know why the brake cleaner didn't .

Keith

[Ben]

Bad Karma:

Are you using a dipper to pour or are you using a bottom pour pot ?

Ben

[happy7]

In the picture, are those gray spots on the mold faces lead? If so, all the lead needs to be removed from the faces or the mold will not close fully and that will cause finning. In my experience, Lee molds have to be run hotter than iron molds, and some frosting is necessary for a well filled out bullet. Also, I have found that the smoke can fill up the vent lines. I also run mine clean, without any mold release agents.

[HeavyMetal]

Increase the flow rate or "pressure" fill by holding the mold against the spout!

I've had these type wrinkles before and it's from the alloy cooling because the flow of alloy is to slow!

Venting the the mold at the top / boolit base area is another to do here!

[454PB]

I've said before, I quit smoking and lubing my Lee moulds years ago, and all my troubles ended.

[Bad Karma]

Bad Karma:

Are you using a dipper to pour or are you using a bottom pour pot ?

Ben

I'm using a bottom pour Lee pot. Works great with all my other moulds.

[DLCTEX]

What are you degreasing the mold with? Some carb cleaners contain petroleum products that recontaminate the mold. We had a person recently that was using mineral spirits, that didn't work. I use Wally Word brake cleaner and an old toothbrush on new or contaminated molds. To be absolutely sure you could boil it in soapy water for 30 min. We know that the lead is hot enough, if it's frosting, and from the color, I don't think you have zinc problems, which would go away hot anyway. I would not lube the mold until it was casting good, just to be safe there is no lube in the cavaties. I have never had a mold of any kind hot enough to pour lead out the bottom, leave the sprue plate open and hold the closed mold up to the light to see if it's closing good. If there is enough room for hot lead to escape, then venting should not be a problem. Still no word if you ladle or bottom pour, pressure pour or leave a gap? I can get finning from a good mold by pressure pouring with a full pot. DALE OOps! Answered part of my question while I was posting. Is the pot dribbling or streaming?

[Ben]

Bad Karma :

Have you tried casting with a dipper with this troublesome mold ? With a dipper you can vary the amount of alloy in the dipper thus changing the amount of " alloy flow pressure " going into the mold. Just might make a difference ? ?

Ben

[Bret4207]

I'm with Ben, try a ladle. Some moulds are just picky. I'd clean it real well, try some Leementing, get the lead spots off the faces and try a ladle and hot alloy. I think you have a little of a bunch of different issues building up to a problem. Lee's venting has never been a problem for me. Those milled lines work well. Make sure the sprue plate is nice and flat too.

[shotman]

i have had the same thing fro time to time i now hold the mold down about 2in and fill that way i makes a little mess but after you get the hang of it is not too bad i have the lee pot and run temp near max the 9mm you may not have to run that hot but it wont hurt go fast so mold doesnt cool i run a 1lb coffee can of 45acp in about 30min and most of the time no bad one only first 2 molds full shotman/rick

[Bad Karma]

Well, I think I'm gonna just live with it. My next six cavity one will be the 452" T/C 230 grain.