1873 Springfield

[TXGunNut]

Saw a nice enough 1873 Springfield today and it's eating on me. Price is $800, bore is very good, wood has been replaced at the armory and I believe the replacement wood has the iron patchbox. (Looked at several today.) It's marked 1873 in two places, apparently that's a good sign. Action seems to be very sound and the gun appears to be complete.
I'm looking for a shooter, I feel any serious student of the 45-70 should own a Springfield at some time. I've seen many rougher rifles for more money so I'm tempted to bring this one home. Any tips or suggestions?

[dh2]

I found my Springfield as a basket case at an estate sale, is was a interesting project but fun to get it on the range, how well it will preform can be supersing

[Battis]

The store where I get a lot of stuff has a .45-70 barrel and action for $250. I brought my .50-70 stock to the store to see if the barrel would fit, but it doesn't. It looks like it's in good shape. If someone has a stock, it'd be a good deal.
http://www.ktpguns.com/firearm.php?gid=1029855&manufacturer=any&caliber=45-70+GOVT&action=any&model=any&sort=Manufacturer&sortdir=asc&searchdata=&SeeAll=

On that link, look to the left of the description and hit Search to see what they list.
They have 2 or 3 complete 45-70 Springfields that aren't listed on their site. One is around $450, the other is around $750.

[varsity07840]

Saw a nice enough 1873 Springfield today and it's eating on me. Price is $800, bore is very good, wood has been replaced at the armory and I believe the replacement wood has the iron patchbox. (Looked at several today.) It's marked 1873 in two places, apparently that's a good sign. Action seems to be very sound and the gun appears to be complete.
I'm looking for a shooter, I feel any serious student of the 45-70 should own a Springfield at some time. I've seen many rougher rifles for more money so I'm tempted to bring this one home. Any tips or suggestions?

If it has a patch box, it was added by someone after it was disposed of by the Army. If it is marked 1873 on the lock plate, you have a very early model and should have a high arch breech block. Check for excessive play when the breech block is closed and also check the firing pin
to see if it's frozen. If you buy it, slug the bore and find a machinist who can measure the 3 groove slug. It will probably be over the standard .458 groove size The Lee 405 gr hollow base is a great mould for TDs. It will cast at around .461 with 20/1 lead.

[TXGunNut]

Yes, marked 1873 on the lock plate. Will check the firing pin but breech block was tight. Thanks for the tips and mould advice, that will be my second choice if my 457193 doesn't work out.

[LIMPINGJ]

If you have time check out the TrapdoorCollector.com site. Good descriptions and knowledgeable articles.

[TXGunNut]

If you have time check out the TrapdoorCollector.com site. Good descriptions and knowledgeable articles.

Good idea, just not much time. That's why I didn't pick it up yesterday, I know very little about Springfields. I'll handle a few more today, awesome opportunity at the show and museum today.

[corbinace]

Not wanting to hijack your thread but I too am looking at a TD. The latching tab on this one is a bit wiggly when open. Is that a terrible issue?

[varsity07840]

Not wanting to hijack your thread but I too am looking at a TD. The latching tab on this one is a bit wiggly when open. Is that a terrible issue?

The cam latch at the rear of the breech block on my 3 TDs have no "wiggle"when open. Is there lateral or vertical play when it's closed?

[SSGOldfart]

4
Saw a nice enough 1873 Springfield today and it's eating on me. Price is $800, bore is very good, wood has been replaced at the armory and I believe the replacement wood has the iron patchbox. (Looked at several today.) It's marked 1873 in two places, apparently that's a good sign. Action seems to be very sound and the gun appears to be complete.
I'm looking for a shooter, I feel any serious student of the 45-70 should own a Springfield at some time. I've seen many rougher rifles for more money so I'm tempted to bring this one home. Any tips or suggestions?
And you didn't BUY it? Whereis it at if you don't mind???

[TXGunNut]

4
And you didn't BUY it? Whereis it at if you don't mind???


I finally bought it this afternoon, had to talk myself into it. No patchbox, BTW. Was confusing it with some original Sharps rifles.

[Battis]

This refers to the .50-70 cam latch wiggle:

From the "Description and Rules for the Management of the Springfield Breech-Loading Rifle Musket, Model 1868":

"The force of the discharge is exerted against the rear of the cam-latch, and to ensure this the arbor and body of the cam-latch shaft are made purposely to fit their bearings loosely."

[Kevin Rohrer]

We want pictures!

[TXGunNut]

We want pictures!

Hope you can wait a few days. I have rules against carrying firearms in and out of hotel rooms. Even small towns have thieves.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I finally bought it this afternoon, had to talk myself into it. No patchbox, BTW. Was confusing it with some original Sharps rifles.

It sounds like a good move. On the modern market as on the nineteenth century great plains, you can easily pay ten times as much for an original Sharps that you won't have anywhere near ten times the fun with.

I wouldn't have worried if it had had a neatly added patchbox that obviously wasn't recent. That would be just part of its life story.

[TXGunNut]

It sounds like a good move. On the modern market as on the nineteenth century great plains, you can easily pay ten times as much for an original Sharps that you won't have anywhere near ten times the fun with.

I wouldn't have worried if it had had a neatly added patchbox that obviously wasn't recent. That would be just part of its life story.

You're right, of course. This old TD is going to be lots of fun to shoot and it's even fun to handle and wonder where it's been, just like all old guns. It will also give me the opportunity to learn about a very important part of the history of firearms.


SSG I'm in Cody, WY and they have quite a few old TD's here at the Winchester Arms Collector show. Show ends @ 2P today, make plans to join us next year.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I've owned a few single shots of the 19th. century and the Springfield .45 rifle is without a doubt my favorite.

[jrmartin1964]

If you are new to the Springfield, you will want to get yourself a copy of the book "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J. S. & Pat Wolf.

[TXGunNut]

If you are new to the Springfield, you will want to get yourself a copy of the book "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J. S. & Pat Wolf.

Thanks, making a note of that. Was looking at the Cody Museum gift shop for a book on the subject and came up empty. Well, the book about the firearms used at Custer's last stand will likely touch on it some. They have a very nice book section there, came out with an armload...again!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I haven't read Paul Matthews's "Forty Years with .45-70", but judged on an article I have seen on his use of the Trapdoor Springfield, it ought to be good.

I thought it was "with the .45-70", which might matter in internet searches, but the above is the way I find it in www.bookfinder.com (http://www.bookfinder.com) , which is an important part of my life support system.

[dromia]

If you are new to the Springfield, you will want to get yourself a copy of the book "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J. S. & Pat Wolf.

Concur, this book will ensure that you get the maximum enjoyment from your rifle.

[John in PA]

If you are new to the Springfield, you will want to get yourself a copy of the book "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J. S. & Pat Wolf.

Dittos.
Note, this book primarily covers shooting the trapdoors, and recreating black powder fixed ammunition as it was made by the Frankford Arsenal. There's no book that covers this subject more thoroughly. It also covers care, cleaning, and de-leading those guns that have been abused in the past with wrong ammunition. It also covers the variations in the guns that affect shooting, such as which guns sights are regulated for the 1873 405 grain bullet vs the 500gr 1881 bullet.

Trapdoors change the rules on common cast bullet accuracy in that their bores are oversize for their bullet, and ammunition was designed to bump up into the rifling with the jolt delivered by black powder, so soft alloys with around 1:20 tin:lead work best, and must contain NO antimony, which removes the plasticity required to get the bullet to bump up. If you're determined to shoot harder lead and smokeless, then a groove diameter bullet is needed, or accuracy is atrocious.
My favorite is the Model 1888 with ramrod bayonet, a Mills sight hood added, and the detachable pistol grip (S&S Firearms has a dandy repro of that original accessory complete with the longer screw needed to mount it (simply replaces one of the original trigger guard screws no alteration of the gun required) http://antiquearmsinc.com/images/Springfield-Model-trapdoor-rifle-45-70-rod-bayonet-carbine-indian-spanish-american-collectibles-militaria/Springfield-Model-trapdoor-rifle-45-70-rod-bayonet-carbine-indian-spanish-american-collectibles-militaria-12.jpg

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=C1245G

[TXGunNut]

I haven't read Paul Matthews's "Forty Years with .45-70", but judged on an article I have seen on his use of the Trapdoor Springfield, it ought to be good. -Ballistics in Scotland


Thank you, that is the book I was trying to think of. I like Paul Matthews.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, John. Just happen to have some 457193's of 20-1 that I didn't use in another project. No worries about using smokeless in this rifle, don't think it will happen. ;-)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I haven't read Paul Matthews's "Forty Years with .45-70", but judged on an article I have seen on his use of the Trapdoor Springfield, it ought to be good. -Ballistics in Scotland


Thank you, that is the book I was trying to think of. I like Paul Matthews.

I think it is about all kinds of .45-70, and can hardly include as much specific to the Springfield as the Wolf book. But it isn't the most expensive old gun book in the world, and should be well worth having.

[Freightman]

I have. A 1866 50\70 it is fun fun to shoot and accurate. Yu

[TXGunNut]

I have. A 1866 50\70 it is fun fun to shoot and accurate. Yu

I believe you've told me about that rifle, that's one reason I wanted it. It was good to see you again last week!

[TXGunNut]

I think it is about all kinds of .45-70, and can hardly include as much specific to the Springfield as the Wolf book. But it isn't the most expensive old gun book in the world, and should be well worth having.

True, but I've read an excerpt that I believe came from that book and it was quite interesting.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think it was Matthews that described shooting in the half-light at a distant cliff with the old Gould bullet, which was made to be used either as a conventional hollow-point (too hollow in my opinion) or with a .22 rimfire blank inserted. His blanks were black powder, which produced a visible flash. We can't grudge a bit of fun to someone who did so much valuable work within the normal range of maturity.

[TXGunNut]

We can't grudge a bit of fun to someone who did so much valuable work within the normal range of maturity. -Ballistics in Scotland

I'm not afraid to admit that I like BP shooting mainly because it's big, dirty, noisy fun! I like the historical aspect of course but when it comes down to shooting I feel like a kid again. Hmmm...may have found a use for that 457122 mould. ;-)

[TXGunNut]

Finally got around to cleaning the 1873 today. Bore is a bit pitted but the edges of the lands are very good. Methinks I need to dig out some 45-70 cases. ;-)

[TXGunNut]

Dug out said cases last weekend and worked up some OE FFg loads using Lyman 457193 20-1 boolits. Range day tomorrow!

[jrmartin1964]

Bear in mind with the old Springfields, they have no "free bore" and very little (if any) lead-in to the rifling. Bullets that were meant to work with them have nose sections that are just under bore diameter (usually measuring right at 0.449" dia.), with the full groove-diameter section (0.458" to 0.460" dia.) of the bullet seated within the case.

[TXGunNut]

Good to know, my theory was just the opposite. Figured it would have a long throat. My load chambers just fine, will see how it shoots in the morning.

[TXGunNut]

Old soldier shot quite well today, functioned perfectly once I learned how it worked. Quite an impressive rifle. 136 years young. Very impressive. Just wish I could see the sights.