38 Special 148 Gr. Hornady Hollow Base Wadcutter Loading Questions

[762 shooter]

I have come into possession of about 1200 of the above referenced swaged Boolits.

I've Googled the site and found that my load will probably be in the 3.3 to 3.7 grains of Bullseye for the sweet spot.

I have a Ruger Security Six and a Dan Wesson 357 that I will be feeding.

I have never loaded full wadcutters. What do you use as the seater punch? It seems that the round nose seater will contact the outermost rim of the wadcutter. Should I crimp?

http://i63.tinypic.com/2556gp4.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/116rozt.jpg

Thanking you in advance.

762

[EMC45]

The round nose seater will most likely ride the outer edge of the bullet's diameter. It should square up with the frontal flat of the bullet. I would seat to flush and apply a mild roll crimp. Don't push too fast though, you will have a mess to clean up if so.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Fully agreed on the slight roll crimp. I've loaded many thousand of these and have a die set dedicated to them, with the seating die having the correct wadcutter seating plug. What do you intend to use them for? If for target work, then 2.5 or 2.6 gr. of Bullseye was the standard PPC loading.

[ReloaderFred]

What are you going to use these for? If for just punching paper out to 50 yards, then your load is on the heavy side. The standard load for all the years I shot PPC matches was 2.7 grains of Bullseye, with the bullet seated even with the case mouth, and a light roll crimp, in a .38 Special case.

With that load, from a Ransom Rest, my S&W K-38 put 10 shots into 1 7/8" at 50 yards, but I was using swaged HBWC bullets from Ron Gromak, who is no longer in business. That was also using all 6 chambers, not just one.

If you load these too hot, you'll blow through the bullet and risk leaving the skirt in the barrel, but usually you just have two pieces of bullet striking somewhere near the target.

If you have an extra seating plug, you can fill it with either hot glue gun glue, or epoxy, and make it fit the contour of the bullet nose. If not, use the SWC seating plug, which usually have a little more bearing surface on the outside edge than a RN seating plug does.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[DerekP Houston]

I seat mine one ring shy of flush for home cast, but that model in your picture is fully seated iirc. I like a light roll crimp but mine barely budge from the recoil. Good choice on powder. I use a bit lighter load, but I'm fairly cheap ;).

[dannyd]

use the lightest you can, they work best for me in 38 special cases

[762 shooter]

Paper punching, fun, and accuracy.

I will try the lighter load.

Yes. I am loading these into 38 special cases. I am lusting after a Ruger 77/357 now.

762

[Petrol & Powder]

I shot a couple of metric tons of those bullets and the Speer version of the same type of bullet. They're are both great bullets and I had success with them using 231 and Bullseye. Probably more 231.
I would use a seating stem for a SWC and the edge of the stem would contact the edge of the bullet without deforming the bullet.

[dannyd]

Paper punching, fun, and accuracy.

I will try the lighter load.

Yes. I am loading these into 38 special cases. I am lusting after a Ruger 77/357 now.

762

Have you looked at any of the 357 lever guns? I love that Ruger too, but it look hard to load for.

[dubber123]

Excellent design, and the skirt is heavier than many HBWC designs, allowing for a bit more speed. I shot right around 35,000 of these years ago. Hornadys lube is better than some, and I never ran into leading even in my usual above normal loading.

[Hick]

I load the Speer version with 3.5 grains W231 and seat using the normal seating die (light crimp). Never had any seating difficulties. According to Hornady this is the max load, but I worked up to it with no problems. I measures out to about 850 fps and performs very nicely.

[fjruple]

I used these very bullets for my target work in a Colt National Match .38 special wadcutter Automatic and S&W Model 52-2. I have been using 2.7 grains of 700X. I have a separate seating die for the HBWCs. Check with the manufacturer of your seating die for a wadcutter seating plug they will often send you one for free. I have a small lathe and custom cut one for my seating die.

--fjruple

[Outpost75]

Important to have cases expanded sufficiently in both diameter and depth that skirt of bullet is not deformed in seating. Also important that case mouths be well deburred inside to remove any wire edges. Flush seat and apply only enough taper crimp to remove all mouth flare. Thin-walled wadcutter brass gives better results than thicker walled service load brass.

A light roll crimp useful to improve feeding in autoloading match pistols, but is unnecessary in revolvers with midrange loads. The Hornady and Speer component 148-grain HBWCs ARE NOT suitable for loading "full charge" wadcutters. The only commercially available HBWC bullets which maintain their accuracy over 3 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special are REMINGTON, which still provide match-grade accuracy to 3.2 grains of Bullseye and are still more accurate than ordinary 158-grain LRN or SWC service loads u0p to 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special. Above 3.5 grains of Bulleye solid DEWC bullets are more suitable for full charge loads up to 4 grains of Bullseye.

Most accurate charges with Hornady and Speer component 148 HBWC bullets are 2.7-2.8 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special cases or 3.0-3.2 grains if flush seated in .357 Magnum brass. Alternately 3.2-3.5 grains of W231, SR7625 or HP38 can be used in .38 Special brass. or 3.5-3.8 grains of these powders in .357 brass.

Machine rest 12-shot groups from a good PPC revolver, S&W 52, Colt Gold Cup, or Hammerli 240 should be under an inch at 25 yards. If yours aren't, reexamine for excessive case sizing or excessive crimp which distort bullet, or excessive powder charge which blows skirt.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I like every other poster here about this boolet and loads did load many thousands of these when I was involved with PPc shooting. I loaded then flush with a very slight roll crimp to just be rid of the case bell mouth. I used many 8 lb. containers of both HP-38 and Win. 231 powders at 3.3 grs. I also used Federal small pistol primers exclusively. My 6" S&W Model 14 that had been `tweaked` a bit was scarey accurate out to about 20 yards, maybe a bit farther on a good day. I preferred the Hornady WC over the Speer as I would have leading problems with the Speer over the Hornady. I finally got 2 of the older Lyman #358495 WC 4 hole molds and made my boolets from then on. I played with mixing alloys till I was dropping a boolet weighing 147 - 149 grs. and using the same 3.3 gr. load I won a `few` matches.Robert

[EMC45]

I too was going to say 2.7gr of Bullseye or 700X. That was my go to for these and 3gr is my mild 158gr loading.

[Guesser]

I load them in Remington cases, as the R-P case walls are thinner, won't squeeze the soft bullet; over 2.7 gr. B'eye, seated flush, for use in 3 different Colt Officer Model 38's. They will make any shooter proud.

[DerekP Houston]

I load them in Remington cases, as the R-P case walls are thinner, won't squeeze the soft bullet; over 2.7 gr. B'eye, seated flush, for use in 3 different Colt Officer Model 38's. They will make any shooter proud.

reallllly now....that would explain why some of mine load easier than others. I knew different brands had different thickness of brass but I may have to break down a sort a few bags to test. I have batch of Armscore 38 special new in the closet I've been slowly using up, and man those are some tough brass to seat primers on and there is a noticable ring from inserting a non-bevel base wad cutter. still shoots just great and chambers fine in my revolvers, I assumed just something one see's as a reloader. All boolits are sized to .358 via my lee push through sizer.

[Outpost75]

If you are serious about loading accurate wadcutter ammo, with factory wadcutter brass being harder to find these days, buy new Starline cases, lightly inside lubricate and set up a collet stop in the lathe as you press them over a .357-.358" mandrel, whichever provides a snug drive-fit, then outside neck turn the case mouths to 0.010" wall thickness to a depth approximating the length of your chosen HBWC bullet, about 1/2". After the case is fire-formed, the case interior will have a nicely formed "step" which the base of the bullet will rest against, so that you can decap, tumble-clean, prime and load UNSIZED cases, keeping the bullet properly positioned until you can run the newly assembled cartridge through a Redding profile crimp die to size the case and crimp it around the bullet with ZERO deformation.

This is the way the factories do it and is the best way.

But a caution: This method works ONLY iF your match target pistol or revolver has a close chamber which doesn't permit fired cases to swell excessively.

If WC bullets fit so loosely in fired brass that they will drop of their own weight past the case mouth, and down against the powder, that would create an unsafe condition, so this method will NOT work for brass fired in sloppy "service" chambers.

[gwpercle]

If the round nose seating stem rounds over the soft outer edge of the swaged HBWC , use JB Weld to custom fit the RN stem to match the WC nose profile. A flat stem will also work , fill the RN stem with JB Weld , let cure and sand flat...it will now seat any boolit that has a flat spot on it. WC , SWC , TC , RF and FP , the flat seating stem is very versital and can be removed when desired.
Gary

[Virginia John]

I love this round in a .38 or .357. Probably the most accurate round for these weapons. I use 2.9 Bullseye for both. Watch your crimp these are soft rounds.

[salvadore]

I'm not a PPC guy and haven't put thousands of these things down range, but use to load hbwc out for use in my .357 shooters. Anyone else do this?

[Outpost75]

I'm not a PPC guy and haven't put thousands of these things down range, but use to load hbwc out for use in my .357 shooters. Anyone else do this?

Sure, in .357 brass powder charges can be increased about 10% to compensate for the increased powder capacity. Accuracy firing wadcutters in .357 chambered revolvers is usually a bit better when you use .357 brass and by doing so exclusively you won't need to scrub the crud ring out of the front of the chambers. I load 3.2-3.5 grains of Bullseye with flush seated 148 HBWCs in .357 brass or 3.5-4.0 grains of W231.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Sure, in .357 brass powder charges can be increased about 10% to compensate for the increased powder capacity. Accuracy firing wadcutters in .357 chambered revolvers is usually a bit better when you use .357 brass and by doing so exclusively you won't need to scrub the crud ring out of the front of the chambers. I load 3.2-3.5 grains of Bullseye with flush seated 148 HBWCs in .357 brass or 3.5-4.0 grains of W231.

How about charge weights for full power DEWCs in .357 brass? BE and 231, if possible.

[Char-Gar]

How about charge weights for full power DEWCs in .357 brass? BE and 231, if possible.

Wayne...I am certain you could use BE and 231 for full snort WCs in the 357 Magnum and Outpost can help you there.

I like solid base WCs in 357 Magnum brass for 357 Magnum sixguns and have used 10/2400 and 7.5/AA5 for that purpose. Both of these are about 1,000 to 1,100 fps and deliver outstanding accuracy with moderate recoil. Both of the powder charges get pressures up enough for a clean burn.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Charles,

I was hoping for charge weight suggestions that would give 800-900 fps out of the Magnum brass, not the blue whistler type!

[Outpost75]

...I was hoping for charge weight suggestions that would give 800-900 fps out of the Magnum brass, not the blue whistler type!

For about 800-900 fps with 148 HBWC from .357 Magnum brass about 3.5-4.0 of Bullseye will do it, but above about 3.8 you will see some degradation of accuracy, depending upon barrel length and muzzle exit pressure.

[Char-Gar]

Wayne...I have a 1987 article by Terry Murbach on full charge wadcutters and he lists 4.0 - 4.2 grains of Bullseye with wadcutters in 357 Mag cases. Velocity out of a 6" bbl were 800 - 840 fps. I have not tried any of these but Terry is a reliable source. I should think this should get you started in the right direction.

[Wayne Dobbs]

That works for me!

[Harry O]

I used to use the Hornady HBWC up until about 7 years ago when it became impossible to buy them. I experimented with several wadcutter moulds before I found one that equaled the Hornady for accuracy (most of them did not). Once that was worked out, I have not gone back.

Interestingly, the ones I bought had a very light coating of a dry white lube on them. It was OK for some of my .38's (Colt and S&W mostly), but would lead with some of my Ruger's. I ended up putting a light cover of Lee Liquid Alox over the Hornady's and never had a leading problem with any gun after that. The ones I made with the extra lube look identical to your photograph.

I use Bullseye. Almost all of them were loaded with 2.8gr of Bullseye. There was never any leading in any gun at that load. I use the smallest Lee scoop made to measure that out. I usually use a scoop instead of a powder measure and scale whenever the amount used is less than 5.0gr of powder. After a little practice measuring, it is just as accurate as a measure and scale, but a lot faster. I did experiments up to 3.5gr and got leading in some more guns, but that also stopped after I started using Lee Liquid Alox. I did not take it higher than that, though.

I experimented with reverse loaded Hornady's for a while. Skeeter Skelton liked them. He said they would "expand passing through a prickly pear leaf". He was right. They would flatten in wet phone books. Not a lit of penetration, though. I used 3.5gr (but did not have a chrono way back then, so I don't know how fast they were going). They were just as accurate as regular bullets out to 15 - 20 yards or so, but started to keyhole (turn back around) beyond that. Out at 50 yards, they went through the target perfectly sideways, but it was inaccurate and hard to keep on the target at that distance.

I have never tried them in .357 Magnum cases.

[Cargo]

I am loading these into 38 special cases. I am lusting after a Ruger 77/357 now.

762

If you can find one grab it. It's nice having a wide variety of bullets to choose from without worrying about a tubular magazine. Everyone in our family loves the 77/357.

[smkummer]

For anyone following this post, remember that plain base wadcutters ( which can be run a bit hotter) and hollowbase wadcutters are a bit different when it comes to reloading data. Hollowbase wadcutters often used thinner “wadcutter brass” as the hollow base bullet was longer. Plain base wadcutters work fine in regular brass. While I have yet to see this happen to me, hollowbase wadcutters caution about using upper loads because the hollow base can separate from the rest of the bullet and lodge in the barrel. I have experienced this with hollowbase 41 colt bullets though.

I easily shoot 1K of Lee cast plain base wadcutters with 3 grains bullseye a year.

[USSR]

Hollowbase wadcutters often used thinner “wadcutter brass” as the hollow base bullet was longer. Plain base wadcutters work fine in regular brass.

You obviously haven't tried loading plain base wadcutters so as to be flush. PMC .38 Special brass will bulge the case tremendously. I have found the best regular .38 Special brass that will for the most part handle flush seated plain base wadcutters is Federal.

Don

[Norske]

I load as many HBWC's upside down for a big HP as I load as they were meant to be loaded. With 38SPC brass in 357 revolvers, I load them long. For my wife's 38 snubby, I load them shorter.

[Gray Fox]

I tumble lube the Hornady HBWCs in LLA right over the white powder lube (motor mica?) lube Hornady uses and that lets me push them a little faster without leading. I, too, have loaded them backwards and tests in a Fackler box of water jugs proved that they would expand consistently and not fragment like harder alloy. I know that many folks argue the the backwards use is inaccurate past 7 yards or so, but most folks plan to use snubbies at social distances anyway. I have some recovered ones in a box somewhere and if I can find them I'll post pix. GF

[smkummer]

You obviously haven't tried loading plain base wadcutters so as to be flush. PMC .38 Special brass will bulge the case tremendously. I have found the best regular .38 Special brass that will for the most part handle flush seated plain base wadcutters is Federal.

Don
Your right. In fact I am seating Lee’s tumble lube plain base wadcutter in the last lube groove so as acting as an exposed button wadcutter. I load this in every kind of RP brass and Winchester WC brass.

[dougader]

I load the 148 grain HBWC in 38 Spl cases with 2.1 grains W231 for a light gallery load... just don't fire these at any hard surfaces, or especially old tires, as the suckers will bounce right back at you!

They have the recoil of a 22 LR and work great for teaching new shooters who might otherwise be recoil shy.