Extremely quiet 06 load for 100ft kills?

[LAKEMASTER]

I'm heading to a families ranch where he has a lot of issues with several varmint.

Long story short, if I wanted to take out raccoons, possums, coyotes within 75 to 100 ft, what would you recommend?

I've never loaded low stuff like this. I know the biggest issue will be noise.

Can anyone suggest a bullet weight ? I only have 165 gr ranch dog rounds

[LAKEMASTER]

I was told most off the shooting is 50ft

[nagantguy]

unique and bullseye have both worked well for me from 30-30 and several nagants. look.up mouse farther and cat sneeze loads tons of martial on the subject. I'm actually wining out a pinker pest type killer for a sporterized Mauser starting at 10 grains of unique.

[LAKEMASTER]

I shoot 10 gr unique for killing water bottles. I'm expecting there to be some interesting info for this situation

[runfiverun]

bulls-eye or red-dot or 700-x at 8grs and a soft boolit, that will park them where they are.
you'll be right below the crack sound at that point [1100 fps] and your trajectory will be about 22 lr like, only with a whomp at the other end.
if you want more quiet drop the powder a bit more.
titegroup at 6 grs to start will get you there too and it isn't even a little bit position sensitive.

if you were closer I'd loan you my 300 BO.
3.5grs of 700-x and the LEE 230 is minute of raccoon head [okay rock chuck head] at 50 yds and super quiet, I usually shoot it without ear plugs.
I wish I had a muffler for it, it would be better than movie silencer quiet.

[hutch18414]

I have been using 4grs of Bullseye with the Lee 170 gr FN. Reasonably quiet in the longer barreled 06 and a little louder from the Win 94. And both a almost pin point accurate at 25 yds.

[Travelor]

I read your question, but I would think you would be better served with a 22LR with standard velocity ammo.

[richhodg66]

I read your question, but I would think you would be better served with a 22LR with standard velocity ammo.

Or some of the even quieter CB cap loadings for .22s. With a long barreled rifle, the striker dropping is the loudest part of shooting one. If you're only talking 50 feet, these would work great.

[Electric88]

bulls-eye or red-dot or 700-x at 8grs and a soft boolit, that will park them where they are.
you'll be right below the crack sound at that point [1100 fps] and your trajectory will be about 22 lr like, only with a whomp at the other end.
if you want more quiet drop the powder a bit more.
titegroup at 6 grs to start will get you there too and it isn't even a little bit position sensitive.

if you were closer I'd loan you my 300 BO.
3.5grs of 700-x and the LEE 230 is minute of raccoon head [okay rock chuck head] at 50 yds and super quiet, I usually shoot it without ear plugs.
I wish I had a muffler for it, it would be better than movie silencer quiet.

Is your 300 BO an AR or bolt?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Or some of the even quieter CB cap loadings for .22s. With a long barreled rifle, the striker dropping is the loudest part of shooting one. If you're only talking 50 feet, these would work great.

That is true for very small varmints - so true that the OP would probably be using a .22 if he had one. But he is talking raccoons upwards, and Aguila, at least, warn that their CB equivalent, in a Long Rifle case, is for handguns only, as the bullet may lodge in a rifle. It doesn't take much to produce a ring bulge. Checking that you had a trajectory for every shot would prevent that, but you don't want to mess around with a cleaning rod while the varmints are making rude gestures and calling their friends.

The fast powders people are suggesting are fine. Don't go for light loads of a slow powder, as that can produce a pressure wave. The chances are a bit against its being dangerous with a light load - if "a bit against" is good enough - but it can ring a chamber. I'd go for a lighter bullet, say 100 to 125gr. I found that 247gr. .330in. bullets in the 8x60R Portuguese worked fine at 1700ft/.sec, but tumbled when downloaded to about 1300. You don't necessarily lose much by using them. My .300H&H was throated for 190gr. bullets, but it was contrary enough to give fairly consistently give its best groups, 1⅛in. at 200 yards, with 125gr. spire point Sierras. You would save the sonic crack and a bit of trouble and expense, with no real disadvantage in your application, by keeping velocity low enough for plain base bullets.

[BrentD]

How can someone not have a .22? Subsonic hollowpoints would be ideal for the intended purpose. This sounds like a GREAT reason to go out and buy a .22. Everyone should have one or maybe a dozen!

[richhodg66]

FWIW, a .32 wadcutter revolver bullet and five grains of Bullseye in a .30-30 single shot was one ragged hole accurate at 25 yards and pretty quiet. I'd imagine just about any .30 caliber would be the same and terminal performance would be good on critters you're going after.

[LAKEMASTER]

So, would it be wise to get a lighter bullet. Like, 100gr or the lightest I can find?

I'd love to take a 22 but I don't have one sitting around to use.

I guess they tried the subsonic 22 rounds and killed nothing. They hate the pests enough to try to control them but they've been hunters all their lives, so, they aren't cruel...

They have 30 cal air guns with night vision/red light systems on them. Their guns push 450 to 550 fps, (apparently) I know nothing about the air gun world

[BrentD]

If they couldn't kill stuff with subsonic .22s, they haven't a friggin' clue what they are doing. It is all I use in my .22s and they kill everything that I ask them too. Coons are no problem.

Why folks feel the need to kill everything out there is beyond me. Sounds like they need to move to an apartment complex or something.

[richhodg66]

Since getting a place out in the country, I've kind of adopted that mentality. Coyotes get shot at if I have anything in my hands that shoots. Didn't start that way, but coons are now on that list as well. However, we have rabbits all over the place. Wife enjoys watching them, I don't care for eating them, they don't seem to be causing a problem, so they get left alone. Besides, if they're around, maybe the coyotes will chase them instead of my cat.

I did some reading up on possums, seems they are highly resistant to rabies, oddly. They also eat ticks, which I hate and they're so docile and dumb they leave the pets alone so I generally leave them be now. Some kind of rodents ate up the wiring in her car once, but it hasn't happened since the tomcat adopted us and has been hanging around.

Now, I don't grow things or raise stock for a living either. I might have a different mentality if I did.

[RU shooter]

So, would it be wise to get a lighter bullet. Like, 100gr or the lightest I can find?

I'd love to take a 22 but I don't have one sitting around to use.

I guess they tried the subsonic 22 rounds and killed nothing. They hate the pests enough to try to control them but they've been hunters all their lives, so, they aren't cruel...

They have 30 cal air guns with night vision/red light systems on them. Their guns push 450 to 550 fps, (apparently) I know nothing about the air gun world

you don't really need a super light bullet they won't make it anymore quiet . But if your wanting to kill the vermin/pests use a bullet with a decent flat nose on it in the 150-180 gr range if all you have is round nose styles just file a nice wide flat point on it they will shoot just fine . As for a load for said bullet a real quiet use Bullseye is the 3-4 grain range . I've dropped down to 2.5 gr in a 24 inch barrel and was super quiet but just a .5 gr less it wouldn't exit the barrel . The 3-4 gr will sound like a 22 without having the sonic crack . Even that slow moving bullet has plenty of energy to shoot through and through a large coon or ground hog so be careful what's behind your target

[Thumbcocker]

Do a search for Paco Kelly and silent loads. He used a heavy boolit cast of pure lead with tiny charges of very fast powder (1.5 -2 grains?). He reported almost no report because the powder burned in the barrel and essentially silenced the gun. Never tried it myself but the theory makes sense. He did say you would stick a few boolits before you got the charge worked out.

[runfiverun]

my 300 is a bolt gun [as is the wife's] I run 7 twist barrels, the load I quoted above is marginal in an 8 twist.
I'd bump it up to 4 grs of the 700-x or red-dot for an 8 twist and probably drop back to a 200gr boolit for best results [stability]

the 165 gr ranch dog is a fine hunting boolit.
one thing that could help is to 'wet up' your lube a little or to add some graphite to the alox or tumble lube your using.
the extra bore coverage seems to help the boolit keep moving on the lower end of things.

your looking for a balance between stability and speed, just enough of one to have the other.
removing friction as much as possible will help you get there.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

my 300 is a bolt gun [as is the wife's] I run 7 twist barrels, the load I quoted above is marginal in an 8 twist.
I'd bump it up to 4 grs of the 700-x or red-dot for an 8 twist and probably drop back to a 200gr boolit for best results [stability]

the 165 gr ranch dog is a fine hunting boolit.
one thing that could help is to 'wet up' your lube a little or to add some graphite to the alox or tumble lube your using.
the extra bore coverage seems to help the boolit keep moving on the lower end of things.

your looking for a balance between stability and speed, just enough of one to have the other.
removing friction as much as possible will help you get there.

That sounds fine, and using a softer lube than you would for higher velocities is good advice. But most .30 rifles owned for other purposes will have a 10in. twist at least, and for that you would probably need either higher velocity or a shorter bullet.

[Outpost75]

Refer to the web site: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

4 grains of Bullseye is the lightest charge in which a 170-grain cast bullet will reliably exit a .30-'06 barrel, about 700 fps.

Accuracy will be better with 5 grains of Bullseye, about 870 fps. Still fairly quiet.

Heavier charges up to 9 grains can be safely used, but will be VERY much louder.

Data is on the site for using other powders. Keep velocity under 900 fps for lowest noise.






30-06 Springfield 170gr RNFPbb
PR: WLR CM: Win TempF: 52 OAL: 2.980"


PT
PW
Vel
SD
GS


Bullseye
5.0
878
8.8
1.05



6.0
1004
9.3
2.3



7.0
1119
8.6
2.0



8.0
1217
7.6
2.0



9.0
1327
5.6
1.56

[hutch18414]

I shot a coyote last week with a Lee 170gr FP, gas checked, over 4 grs of Bullseye. Stepped off the distance at 47 paces. DRT, serious exit wound. These "low velocity" rounds still have plenty of lethal energy. My .45 acp load is averaging 848 fps, just a little heavier bullet. Don't underestimate the power of these cat sneeze loads.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I shot a coyote last week with a Lee 170gr FP, gas checked, over 4 grs of Bullseye. Stepped off the distance at 47 paces. DRT, serious exit wound. These "low velocity" rounds still have plenty of lethal energy. My .45 acp load is averaging 848 fps, just a little heavier bullet. Don't underestimate the power of these cat sneeze loads.

I seconds do not underestimate these "low power rounds "

I load a few

6.3 gr power pistol under a lee c309-170rf in a 30-30 case they still make noise these still smack steel at 100 yards

2.5gr tight wad under a lee tl314-90-swc in a 30-30 case

I have also used the tl314-90-swc in 30-06 in a 1903a3

here is some more info http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06

Larry gibson gave some really great info about drilling out the flash channel and marking brass to avoid set back of the shoulder in 30-06 light loads

[LAKEMASTER]

I only have unique powder right now. My one and only reloading shop closed last month.....

[Digital Dan]

Would be inclined to use a round ball such as a .310 typically used for .32 caliber ML guns, or buckshot. #1 to 1-1/2 buck is typically in that dimensional range.

Drill out out the flash hole, mark the case and put a very slight bell in the case mouth. Lube the ball with Alox or beeswax and set it in the case mouth when loading, upright is recommended. A card wad won't hurt, you probably won't need more that a couple grains of any fast pistol powder.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I only have unique powder right now. My one and only reloading shop closed last month.....

10 gr unique under a 150-180 gr bullet is the standard for reduced rifle loads many writers have written about "the load "

start there and work backwards with unique to get good burn you normally need 4-6 gr in a 06 case to get consistent burn or open the flash hole when you get under 5 gr Larry gibson did his testing with a #30 drill you can shoot a 06 case with a light load more than 50 times without setting back the shoulder but you make a cut across the head with a file to mark that this is a light load only case.

I used a 1/8 .125 as i had it and it is only .0035 smaller than the .1285 #30 and it worked well

[jcren]

10 grains of unique under that RD 165 in my 06 crono's about 1350 (borrowed chrono and only 4 shots) and will lay a smack down. That is basically 357 mag energy.

[Outpost75]

I only have unique powder right now. My one and only reloading shop closed last month.....

5 grains of Unique will "light off" OK with your 170-grain bullet and give about 850 fps like a .38 Special.

Here is the Unique table from the gmdr web site:







30-06 Springfield 170gr RNFPbb
PR: WLR CM: Win TempF: 62 OAL: 2.980"


PT
PW
Vel
SD
GS


Unique
6.0
963
18.8
1.70



7.0
1078
13.9
1.62



8.0
1179
9.2
1.77



9.0
1275
11.5
3.5



10.0
1346
10.5
4.5

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't believe I would go below the 5-10gr. of Unique mentioned. Just what load stops being supersonic varies a lot with the rifle, the case and probably a few more factors. I don't think just over sonic is any quieter than mach 2 or 3. But it is proportional to the size of the missile. That is why we used to hear it many miles off when Concorde was flying supersonic trials at sea.

A card wad can be very useful with a flat based bullet, or a combination of card and wax. You can get or self-adhesive sheets of high melting point wax from www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) . But you need something concave to do any good with a round ball. A flat card just converts itself into a dish of shallower diameter, with a gap around the edge. With some calibres you could press wads from wet or wax-saturated papier maché, with a tubular die and a ball bearing.

[Thumbcocker]

I have had excellent results in .30-30 and .30-40 with size 0 buckshot rolled in liquid alox over 3 grains of red dot. Squirrel head or better groups at 30 yards. Works better if you have an unsized case fired in the rifle. Deprime, bell slightly, charge, seat ball 1/2 way and just enough crimp to iron out the bell.

[LAKEMASTER]

Interesting. This is all very cool stuff.

I'll start modifying cases when I get home, and start planning a range day

[RU shooter]

Only issue I see with using a 30 cal round ball(50 grs) at 700-800 fps is there's very little weight to it and that equals not a whole lot of energy especially is your out 100 feet or more to the target . Basically you would be shooting a light loaded 32 acp even Its factory loads is 20 grs heavier, squirrel sure but a coyote ?

[Digital Dan]

Holes in vital plumbing is more relevant than energy.

[popper]

Lee soup an or Speer half jacket & uniqe or 231?

[Thumbcocker]

Have used the same charges in the same cartridges with the soup can.

[runfiverun]

work down with your unique but with a case that big it will probably show some velocity variations which could affect the vertical impact at distance.
I personally would feel better using about 1.5 grs of Dacron at the 8gr area.
another powder that is overlooked for stuff like this [besides the titegoup] is clays.
it will burn cleanly and efficiently when a small amount is used in a big case.
trail boss or tin star would both also work.

one thing to be aware of is even though small amounts of powder are used some of the pressures are still up higher than you might think, it just isn't for very long.

[GhostHawk]

I'm a Red Dot guy and I love shooting light loads in rifles.

Most of mine average around 4.5 - 4.6 grains but I do not have to worry about nose.
I am at a range, need ear protection on anyway.

In my .357 at 50 yards I get cloverleafs with a .357 158 grain round nose plain base and 4.6 of RD.

The same in my new Win 94ae .30-30 makes nice golfball sized groups at 50. Certainly minute of deer if I ever needed to.

In my Mosin's I tend to push them a little harder 10 - 13 makes a real nice whang on steel at 50.

But if I needed to go quiet, 3-4 grains of Red Dot and a 150 grain bullet is what I would load for a .30-06.

Start at 4 and work down in half grain increments. Where you get acceptable noise and reasonable accuracy load up 20 and go to work.

Remember those old tin whistles with a metal rod out the far end, you could adjust the pitch of the sound?

13 grains of Red Dot behind a 310 grain large meplat round nose gas check makes that same kinda sound, real quick like. Hardly any report at all, the powder is all long since burned and pressure is falling as it travels, kind of a very fast downward whistle and a whooph of gas.

I would not try to go below say 2.5 grains of fast powder. If you need more sound suppression use a potato or a pop bottle as a suppressor. (And tell us how it worked)

[nekshot]

I used to load down till they would stay in barrel then I knew how low I could go. Amazing how much pressure is in barrel and escapes when you lift the bolt. Also as said before these things will bounce around so make sure you have a back stop for the slug to stay in.

[fastdadio]

I read your question, but I would think you would be better served with a 22LR with standard velocity ammo.

Yabut what fun would that be? :kidding:

[popper]

Finally got some 170gr. PB (looks like a RD) cast for the 30/30. With 8gr. of unique @ 50 accuracy was 18 of 20 within 1" of POA. Practice as close to actual shooting positionas you can. The difference in recoil will affect the POI. Noise & recoil low but maybe had a couple tipping with the 1:10 twist at lower fps. I figure 1300 fps or so. Try the dacron to keep the powder back where it should be. I do NOT enlarge flash holes.

[Artful]

Unique will be position sensitive - either use the Dacron to hold the powder at the rear or tip up your barrel before each shot. Unique will not let you down but you will have to learn a of it's quirk's.

I use Trailboss a light fluffy powder for most of my subsonic loads and in 308 case it is a nice one to play with.

[smkummer]

I believe my buddy used about 5 grains red-dot with a Lyman 32 auto bullet 311252 of 77 grains. Very pleasurable. He tried 231 and it didn't work. I now have that mold back from him so I will try that or I see that the Lee 93 grain sized to .311 works well also.

[opos]

Just curious if anyone shoots bunny loads from a 30-06 with the jacketed or semi jacketed 30 cal carbine bullets (I think they are 100 grain or 110 grain)? I have a box of them somewhere under a bench and no 30 carbine...I got bullseye, unique, trail boss, 231 and universal..appreciate any thoughts..more "light loads" for target shooting for my Grand daughter...my /06 is an Enfield/Winchester, 1917..

Many thanks.

[Kestrel4k]

Just curious if anyone shoots bunny loads from a 30-06 with the jacketed or semi jacketed 30 cal carbine bullets (I think they are 100 grain or 110 grain)? I have a box of them somewhere under a bench and no 30 carbine...I got bullseye, unique, trail boss, 231 and universal..appreciate any thoughts..more "light loads" for target shooting for my Grand daughter...my /06 is an Enfield/Winchester, 1917..
When shooting the 11cents/ea Armscor 110gr FMJ, I found that my .308 Win.88 liked ~12 grains of Red Dot (@ 1825 fps) ; 5-shot groups of 1.5" @ 100 yds - fantastic accuracy for the 'challenged' M.88 & those cheap FMJ's. Noise level was the lowest of any high-velocity .30 cal loads I've done, but hearing protection still very much required. I came up with a (louder & higher-velocity) Blue Dot load but the Red Dot came on top for accuracy. Recoil was quite modest of course. I have less rifle-load experience with the powders you mention so can't provide anything more specific for your setup, but I highly recommend the project. :) Best of luck,

[runfiverun]

In the 1917.
those lighter bullets will work pretty well.
I shoot different stuff in the 7.7 rifle but it's similar to your jacketed load.

the old stand by of 10grs of unique will work well, and about 10grs of red-dot will poke them out the barrel at just over 22 mag velocity's.
when I started the youngest off shooting the big rifles [308] I worked up to reduced loads of 4895 and 150gr plated bullets.
at one point I had them poking out the barrel with 35grs of the stuff.
I'm pretty sure they were well past the recommended velocity but I think them being a titch oversized helped as the accuracy was real good at 50 yds. [I could have swapped in a 30-30 bullet at this point and let her hunt with the combination]
this is when I moved her on to the 7.65 argie I had cut down for her and started working towards full jacketed loads.
but red-dot and unique and the lighter bullets was where I started and moved ahead as her tolerance/size increased.

[DeskPop]

My Ruger M77 30-06 loves the Lee 113 gr soup can over 9 gr of Winchester 231. It will drive tacs at 50 yards. I have no chronograph but I believe they are pushing about 1500 FPS and are quieter than a 22.

[rondog]

Maybe I missed something, but if it's a ranch I assume it's a country place, so why is noise an issue? I understand the downloading, but why the need for "quiet"?

[ironhead7544]

I would start at 3.0 gr Unique with that bullet and work up. Once you get a load that clears the barrel each time, add .5 gr to be sure.

Keep the brass just for these loads. I would expect 1 inch groups at 25 yards.