Seraphim Falls Guns

[rosewood]

Just watched the movie Seraphim Falls last night with Pierce Brosnan and Liam Neeson set in 1868 Nevada. Neeson is carrying what appears to be a Colt Dragoon. There is no top strap and you can clearly see the loading lever on the bottom of the barrel throughout the movie. Later he check his gun by opening the loading gate and it is empty. He then puts one round that he had on his person and it is Starline brass. Looked like a 45 colt. The gun is later referred to as a .44 when Brosnan is in possession of it and Angelica Huston trades him a round for his horse.

I thought maybe was some sort of conversion here? I understand that a .44 black powder converts to a 45 colt with a cylinder swap, but how did it get a loading gate? And why wasn't the loading lever removed?

Can anyone explain what they are using, or is this a typical hollywood goof? I tried to figure it out by looking at IMFDB, but no luck.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Seraphim_Falls

Funny that they flashback to the Civil war and see a 1873 trapdoor carbine. Hmmm.....

Thanks,

Rosewood

[Outpost75]

Hollywood prop guns defy reality.

I like the guns in Cowboys and Aliens the best!

[35remington]

Given how little Hollywood knows about guns or how little they care about historical accuracy, why worry yourself about unraveling something that cannot be made sense of?

Hollywood typically shows cap and ball revolvers, replete with loading lever, being loaded with cartridges. What does this tell you? What does this suggest about trying to decipher it?

Why would you grant a medium that knows zero about guns the assumption that they know what they are doing?

Hint: they haven't the faintest clue. Try to find a better use for your time.

[Outpost75]

If you ever want to see some wierd fantasy guns you should watch some Chinese chop suey westerns.

Jackie Chan Meets the Magnificent Seven, with apologies to Akira Kurosawa and Steve McQueen...

Early spaghetti westerns produced for the Euro market have some really wierd prop guns as well...

[rosewood]

Well, I am truly interested in guns and variations thereof. When I see something I haven't seen before, I like to find out what I am looking at. I have learned of numerous guns that I didn't know of before I saw them on film. I have purchased a few after seeing them. After seeing Clint Eastwood with the converted Walker Revolver with the drop in cylinder, I want one. Never knew it existed before seeing in the movie. I thought the gun in this movie might be something I would like if it was legit.

Instead of wasting your time, telling me I am wasting my time, why not just ignore my post if you have nothing productive add?

Rosewood

[DougGuy]

Don't worry, Neeson is about as FAKE as the guns he carries. Quite the anti-gunner.

[rosewood]

I am aware of that. Quite the hyocrite.

[Hickory]

Hollywood should do movies on things that really interest them.
Which would be, sex, drugs and rock-n-roll.
In no time at all, no on would watch their junk and maybe they'd go away. But, not likely.

[35remington]

rosewood, I did have something productive to add, which was Hollywood gets it wrong all the time, and much more often wrong than right. The point was to assume Hollywood knows zero about guns or historically correct arms, and the "unusual gun" you see in movies often has no historical equivalent. Particularly when it has features that are contradictory.

This comment really doesn't differ from any of the other responses, does it? What does the fact that the gun has both a loading gate and a loading lever tell you? If something doesn't make sense, the gun doesn't exist.

Typical Hollywood.

[johnson1942]

rosewood, please check your pm/s.

[35remington]

Think about it logically. Where is the loading lever "rammer" located? How could it be of any use in a cartridge firing arm to eject the fired cartridge?

[DougGuy]

Watch the remake of 3:10 To Yuma if you want to see total accuracy in western arms. Great movie, Thell Reed oversaw the guns and taught some of the cast members fast draw. Thell is one of the more respected gunnies in Hollywood.

[Earlwb]

Back just after the Civil War, Colt was making cartridge conversions for the .44 Colt revolver. The earlier versions used a .44 RimFire cartridge. Later they had center fire versions. Anyway, the conversion had a loading gate and a pushrod like you see on single action revolvers for pushing the spent cases out with. But yes they were really .45 caliber. But at the time they measured land to land to get the .44 caliber. Later on they switched to groove to groove for the measurements and thus .45 caliber came out. It had to do with advertising and marketing at the time. There were some rifles made that used the .44 Rimfire cartridge also and I think Colt just used it out of convenience at the time. But way back then some towns or cities banned handgun ammunition, so everyone just bought the rifle ammo instead as it was the same anyway.

Here is my example of a Colt cartridge conversion revolver from circa 1872. The serial numbers are from 1869 but the revolver was made circa 1872 though.

171690

171691

[rosewood]

35 Remington, you are stating the obvious. Did you not read my first post? "or is this a typical hollywood goof?" I was asking for analysis of the gun, not analysis of Hollywood. I did think about it, I know there is no need for a loading lever if it is converted. I am not stupid.

[rosewood]

Earl, thanks for the historical analysis and details. That is the kind of information I was looking for.

I actually have the bug for a Griswoldville Revolver also, for the mere nostalgia of it. I shoot at the Griswoldville gun club which is only a few miles from the battle field and where the factory used to be.

[35remington]

I did confirm it was a typical Hollywood goof.

To re emphasize, Hollywood gets guns wrong so often that if you observe that something makes no sense, it in fact does not make sense and cannot possibly be factual. Like a rammer on a cartridge gun.

Approach anything Hollywood does with guns from that perspective from here on out and it will save a lot of confusion.

You did state your confusion as a question, not as an "obvious" certainty. I responded to a question. FWIW.

[johnson1942]

i have a hollywood type uberti colt. its a 1851 navy with the backend of a single action army and the frontend of the 1851 navy includeing loading lever. it is 38 special in stead of 36 cal. the loading lever is still 36 cal and the only use of it is looks and taking apart the gun real easy. it looks much like a 51 conversion. i use a wooden dowel to push the spent case out. love the gun, love the looks of it and it is a tackdriver. have rested my hands with it in it on the north side of the deck and their is a old old wooden fence 15 yards behind the deck through the chockcherry bushes. i can drive nails with it on that old fence shooting it that way. again, love my hollywood 1851 navy conversion.

[Pardini]

Given how little Hollywood knows about guns or how little they care about historical accuracy, why worry yourself about unraveling something that cannot be made sense of?

Hollywood typically shows cap and ball revolvers, replete with loading lever, being loaded with cartridges. What does this tell you? What does this suggest about trying to decipher it?

Why would you grant a medium that knows zero about guns the assumption that they know what they are doing?

Hint: they haven't the faintest clue. Try to find a better use for your time.

Hollywood knows plenty about firearms. They manufacture fantasy, not reality.

[Salmoneye]

This link may help:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Seraphim_Falls

Internet Movie Firearms Data Base

[Petrol & Powder]

Yep, Hollywood and guns results in some interesting fantasy.

The stories of Hollywood improbable guns could fill pages but my favorites are the guns in "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly". Most of the scenes that show close ups of the holstered revolvers show Cap & Ball revolvers AND loaded spare cartridges in bullet loops on the gun belt. Not sure how one would make that work :shock:. The guns used by the actors in that movie change between cap & ball revolvers and cartridge guns depending on what the scene calls for.

[doc1876]

The best part is the"making of" I thoroughly enjoyed them complaining about ripping their hands while fanning the Dragoon. Dumb anti gunner move.