The 1911 and arthritis.........an issue.

[3006guns]

I'm 67 years old and have been shooting since I was old enough to hold a gun. In the last couple of years, I've developed arthritis in the joint of my right thumb.......the curse of a working man who's used his hands all his life. It's a minor pain with more stiffness than anything else but I noticed when shooting my 1911 over the weekend that two magazines were enough. That dull ache was affecting my concentration and that big slide cycling back and forth was making the session unbearable. Heavy recoiling revolvers don't seem to have the same effect, probably because my whole forearm rises as a unit under recoil.

My load is 6.5 grains of Unique under an aloxed Lee .45 boolit and it functions very nicely.

Now, I have no intention of giving up a 45 acp of any sort and I dearly love the 1911 platform, so I'm looking at boolits lighter than the 230 service and reducing my powder charges. I realized that it's the action of the slide probably causing the problem but has anyone else here on the forum run into the same situation? Did reducing the felt recoil alleviate it to any degree?

I've considered a cortisone shot in the joint but I had that done to my shoulder years ago and it had no effect, so I may be one of those people that cortisone doesn't help.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I have arthritis in my fingers and rarely shoot a cast boolit over 200gr myself. There are times when the recoil of the 1911 bothers the web of my hand and so far the use of a beavertail grip safety has helped. I use the Lyman 452460 200gr.SWC for most casual shooting. The Lyman Number 49 manual lists Unique starting with 5gr. and a max of 7.5gr with this boolit.

Tere are some modifications you can make to the gun to make it more friendly to your hand. A beavertail grip safety, low extended thumb safety, extended slide release, extended magazine release, and customizing your spring weight to the load used. I hope this helps.

[Ford SD]

Have you thought about searching your load data books and trying a min charge of unique for your bullet

also a 200g swc and a min charge

[rintinglen]

My 45 shooting is mostly done with 200 grain MP H&G 68 clones and 5.2 grains of WW-231. I took a tumble off my bicycle a few years back wherein I injured both wrists and the 9 mm has become my friend as a consequence. full bore 45's from my SIG p220 become uncomfortable after about 30 shots and outright painful after about 80. I step down a mite to reduce the wear on my wrists. Curiously, I can blast through a box or two of Skeeter load 44 Specials with my Ruger Flattop and never feel anything other than pride of accomplishment.

[454PB]

You might consider a padded shooting glove. I do a lot of shooting with high/heavy recoil handguns, and when shooting anything bigger than a 9mm, I always wear my Uncle Mike's shooting glove.

[3006guns]

Thanks for the replies everyone........good to know I'm not the only one out there with this problem!

The suggestions of a beaver tail, lighter spring, shooting glove and modified safety are good, as well as a different boolit/charge weight. I'm looking at......of all things......a Lee boolit of only 160 +or- grains. It's rather short but has a flat point, making it still pretty effective and with a bit of luck I'll be able to keep shooting my 1911.

rintinglen mentioned that he can run through an entire box of 44 specials in a Ruger Flattop without problem, and that's what I've found also. A revolver tends to make your entire forearm rise with the recoil (if your grip is correct) while the heavy slide of a 1911 has a curious, rocking back and forth action which really plays havoc with the web of your shooting hand.

Ah, the joys of getting older.............thanks again, guys.

[Beagle333]

I like weightlifting gloves. Nice padded palms with open fingers. (I don't have arthritis, but I did just recently have carpal tunnel surgery on my shooting hand)

[Sur-shot]

If you can find them, Action Products, Inc. makes or they made a gel filled short fingered shooting glove that I myself have worn for years. They are the very best shooting glove I ever tried. I bought a case of the gloves and am still using gloves from that case. Today they make medical products, like wheel chair seat pads out of that gel, the gel was originally developed as the seat pads for astronauts. The glove's gel pad goes over the web, then completely covers the palm and goes around the back of and around the bottom of the heel of the hand, protecting all of the nerves. I shot 1911s on the 101st pistol team so long that I have serious compression nerve and tissue damage in my right hand. According to my surgeon, the tissue of my right hand is like wood or a thick hard tanned leather. After the surgeries I had to find something to protect the nerves. The action glove was what I settled on.
Ed

[GhostHawk]

While I dearly love my Springfield Armory 1911 it has been cleaned, oiled and put away.

I just do not need that much recoil.

I have switched to shooting my Ruger Mk III 22/45 and enjoy it immensely. No pain, nice tight groups, and I am sitting on enough .22lr ammo to shoot a couple hundred rounds a month for the next 10 years.

[RichBaxter]

3006, I have severe RA and am on many medications for it. I still have pain after shooting even my 22/45. While a can shoot much longer with the .22, I just finished building a 1911 in 45 and love shooting it, just not near as many rounds.

I would suggest that you try the cortisone injection and see if it works and consult a rheumatologist. There may be other medication that will allow you to continue to shoot along with the other great suggestions that have been made.

As they say, misery loves company, and you are not alone.

Best of luck to you.

Rich

[osteodoc08]

Buy a glove, reduce weight to 185-200 class and I love 231 in that role.

Another option is to get a 9mm in 1911 and use reduced loads.

[imashooter2]

I developed pretty severe psoriatic arthritis in 2014. My wrists and finger joints are all somewhat less than good these days. I shot a fair bit of steel before the disease hit and didn't want to give it up. The load I came up with is 3.2 grains of Clays under a Lee 452-228-1R. This functions perfectly with a 16 pound spring. Recoil is very soft and the boolits head downrange so slow you feel like you could run down and catch them.

I've always thought that heavy boolits slow felt better than light boolits fast. Give it a try.

[17nut]

Lighter recoil spring is the road of deminishing results and to light a spring results in failiure to feed errors.
Remember that recoil is momentum ie. mass x speed, whereas energy is mass x mass x speed.
So a lighter bullet at the same speed means (way) less recoil.

230gr Ball at 850fps from a 2.3lb 1911 gives 6.45ftlb
160gr cast at 1000fps gives 4.4ftlb
160gr cast at 850fps gives 3.25ftlb

[KYCaster]

First thing you should try is less powder. All the load data I have available shows max charges of Unique with 230 gr. bullets at 5.8 to 6.0.

I tend to think in terms of POWER FACTOR (bullet weight in grains X velocity in FPS divided by 1000). Most of the gun games consider 165 to be the minimum for major PF. GI ball, 230 gr. at 850 fps. = 195.5 PF. Your loads are at least 200 PF, probably more. You don't NEED that much velocity.

5.6 gr. Unique gives me about 170 PF and works very well in all my 1911's....all with standard 16 lb. recoil springs.

If your gun has the GI grip safety, try one with a properly fit beaver tail grip safety....and I don't mean the no-gunsmithing-drop-in unit. It makes a world of difference.

Good luck.
Jerry

[35remington]

In my own guns, 6.5 grains Unique under a 230 grain lead bullet of ball type profile approximates 900 fps or more. I agree that it can and should be throttled back.....a lot.

[farmersamm]

I'm 60, with some arthritis in my hands. Affects the welding, and some other things.

Compared to the 44mag, the 1911 is like a popgun (still, but maybe not in another 7yrs)

I can heartily recommend the Lee 200gr SWC TL mold, and 4.6gr HP-38, 1.220 OAL. Exceptionally mild recoil, and (in my Citadel full sized 1911) cycles perfectly. This load performs well with either a firm grip, or when limp wristing.....cycles just fine either way.

It might also be considered a good starter load for those who find shooting the 45 a challenge. Good place to start the learning curve. I'd also suggest a good, real, all metal gun for beginners......handles the recoil better due to the weight. I like the load for plinking, and playing around with rapid fire targets.....easy to re-acquire the target. Just a very pleasant thing to shoot.

Good luck with the aging thing, I'm right behind you a few years. Mark Twain said it best "Youth is wasted on the young"

[Multigunner]

You might look into a zinc boolit casting alloy. Zinc alloy boolits weigh 60% as much as a lead boolit cast in the same mold.

[Bigslug]

I run the Wolff chrome silicon 18.5# recoil springs on my full-size 1911's, and run pretty much exclusively 230 grain at the GI speed of about 830 fps.

The beefier spring does seem to cushion the blow considerably. If nothing else, it's $5.00 option to try before getting crazy.

[CHeatermk3]

I too have problems with my thumbs. I put some DMSO on a cotton ball and slop it on the bases of my thumbs and I'm good to go for 3-4 days.

[flyingrhino]

Try a compensated barrel from Clark Custom. It really takes the flip out of the recoil. More straight back. 200 gr SWC with 5.8 gr ETR7. Pretty mild. A female friend of mine uses that combination in her Kimber Eclipse Custom II. She's an itty bitty thing. Has RA and is able to shoot a couple hundred rounds before she starts wearing down.

[GONRA]

GONRA suggests trying a cortisone injection (maybe it will verk?) then the gloves....
(Cortisone injection upgefixed our kitten Suki decades ago when she injured her right paw.)

[slughammer]

...I'm looking at......of all things......a Lee boolit of only 160 +or- grains. It's rather short but has a flat point, making it still pretty effective and with a bit of luck I'll be able to keep shooting my 1911.

Unless you are only interested in going "bang" at 7 yards, I would avoid the lightweight 45acp designs. Bullseye shooters use 200 and 185 swc for 2 reasons, accuracy and a clean cut hole. If the 160's could match the accuracy they would be using them.

Stay with your 230 mold and drop the powder charge way down. Try a 14 or maybe a 12 lb spring. If you want a different mold stick with the proven designs.

[Pinsnscrews]

You could always try a wrist brace that keeps the flex in your wrist down so when the slide pops back and tries to bend your wrist, it will spread the recoil into the forearm. You may have to look around for one that doesn't have the metal stay. I know the friend of mine who used one didn't have the metal stay, but it laced up on the backside of the hand and forearm. He used it for everything from his revolvers to his 1911's in both .45 and 10mm.

[Walkingwolf]

I use 200 grain soft cast lead flat point at 800fps. The recoil is very light, just as light as my Star Super 9mm, if not more. I am using 4.6 grains of Red Dot. This is my carry load, extremely accurate, reliable, with fast recovery shots.

[Blackwater]

'06, you have excellent taste in firearms. The 1911 is one of my all-time favorite go-to guns. I have a tip for you that you may not have anticipated, but it's helped me and several other friends, and without any bad side effects. A buddy whose arthritis is further along than my own is, raved about it when I told him I was having trouble with my hands not working like they used to, and are beginning to get arthritis as well. It's a product called "Two Old Goats," and though I thought the name was hokey and I couldn't help but doubt what my friend told me, I tried it and have been pleasantly surprised at how well it works. A local "country store" carries it. Haven't found out who turned them onto it or why they decided to carry it, but he owner is older and I suspect someone turned him onto it, and he decided to let others in on it. It's called "Two Old Goats," and comes in a little 8 oz. dark blue bottle that seems to go a long way. It's around $10 or a little less here. Haven't ordered it in yet, but the no. on the bottle says to call 866-324-3787. It's helped me and two other friends with our own little problems with our hands in our elder years, and might help you too. It says to use it about twice a day. It's not bad smelling at all, and what odor it does have is modest. You'll wonder how it does what it does when you read the ingredients list, but it's worked well for me with zero side effects, and I think I'll keep getting it as long as it's available, and my hands don't work quite right. For $10, what can you lose? And nothing is a panacea when it comes to arthritis, but this stuff has helped me and at least two more, and I understand from my friends that others who have tried it have gotten significant relief from it also. You might want to give it a try. If you were local, I'd be glad to give you a dose to try.

Dealing with arthritis is never going to be easy and we'll never be pain free again, probably, but this stuff has helped significantly loosen up my stiffening fingers (arthritis and a bit of neuropathy in them), and as you already know, having arthritis is kind'a like Marcel's plight when he called down to Jerry Clowr and said, "Just shoot up here amongst us, one of us HAS to have some relief!" Nothing works for all arthritis sufferers in my experience, but this stuff has gotten enough really good reports from those who've tried it that even though the name is hokey, and I have no idea why the listed ingredients work, it sure does seem to relieve a significant part of the suffering and limbers up my stiffening fingers. That's probably as good as it's gonna' get for us, unfortunately, and I surely appreciate all the relief it provides to me and my friends who turned me onto it. FWIW?

[Ole Joe Clarke]

"Ah, the joys of getting older.............thanks again, guys."

Remember: Old age has no mercy.

Have a blessed day,

Leon