54 renegade HOTROD? NOPE NOT YET

[triggerhappy243]

Went to the range this morning and fired my hand cast T/C Maxi-Balls. Shots were all at 100 yards of a solid concrete bench. The big ring is 6 and 1/2 inches in dia. I think I need to glass bed this one. There were a few other issues I need to work out too.

[Dale53]

I had a Renegade for many years. I had a drop in Green River barrel in .45 caliber round ball, and won a passel of matches with it, including at Friendship, In. Great rifle and a tremendous value.

Looks like you'll have yours up and running, shortly.

Good luck!
Dale53

[triggerhappy243]

Went to the range today and shot some more. Took the advice of a few members here and used a smaller target. seemed to help some. 4 shots down from a 6.5 inch group to a 4 inch group at 100. (brown cardboard, just to the right of the orange.)Making progress. Still need glasses. Also shot 4 round ball.(white target 50 yards)

[seppos]

Sometimes I have the same problem when I have slept too little.

Keep up the good work.

S

[54bore]

Good job triggerhappy243, That is better than i have done with my 54s! I hate to sound like a quiter but i have just about had a full diet of 54 Caliber, Stock TC 1:48 Twist that is. I will end up with a fast twist 54 one way or another, i have to much stuff for a 54 to Quit on it. My next step with my 1:48 stock barrels is to totally abandon the paper patched and sized idea, and try patched round balls. I would really like to try the smallest Lee R.E.A.L. bullet for 54 since it is so short. Run them thru my .538 or my .539 sizing die, paper patch them and go back through one or the other dies to pinch the paper on good and tight, I stil might end up doing this? It keeps lurking in my mind, and 20 some bucks for a Lee mold is not gonna break me. I really think if there's a chance a stock 48" twist will shoot a PPB good its gonna have to be a short, REALLY short bullet. And the smallest Lee R.E.A.L. 54 fits that bill nicely! Not much different looking than if you were to put a point on a RB, when and if i try this and if it fails like everything else has i will OFFICIALLY be DONE with my stock TC 54 Cal barrels.
Keep up the good work trigger!! My dad has an old Renegade stock 48" twist that shoots greased Maxi balls REALLY good!! He lubes both grooves, we have tried it both ways and couldn't tell any difference? I have him using an OVERSIZE over powder wad, .58 Cal they are Oxyoke brand store bought, i firmly believe in over powder wads, create the best gas seal you possibly can behind that bullet!

[triggerhappy243]

What powder charge got you the best group?

[725]

I sent my factory T/C .54 barrel to Bob Hoyt and had a .60 RB twist cut. I like it but haven't done any real, hard accuracy testing. It's on the list. I can't / don't speak for him, but I bet a .58 RB twist would be a hoot.

[54bore]

The best i got was with 90 Grains of Swiss 2F powder, The bullets were the heaviest of the 2 Lee R.E.A.L. Bullets for .54, i made a template for paper patching .54 Cal, i sized the bullets first through my .538 to get them close which basically just peels the front driving band off, i then did the 2 wraps of 9# onion skin paper and then ran them through my .539, 1 thou under bore diameter, i used an oversized wool felt over powder wad for .58 Cal. I was shooting a ranged 85 yards, i think i shot 6 times total, the group was about a pie plate, i didnt measure it, but it was decent and had potential. My worst groups were with the Largest of the 2 Lee Minie Balls sized and paper patched the same as above, they shoot so horrible i cant even give an accurate group size, one in the bullseye, another 2 foot to the left, another that far to the right, literally all over the board! I would need a 4X8 sheet of plywood to give an accurate group size, and then should cross my fingers! Garbage at best!
My fast twist Green Mountain LRH barrels have me spoiled! I get true 1-2" groups at 100 yards with both my .45 and my .50 GM barrels, they are truly a DREAM to shoot! I take one of them out and i end up scratching my head wondering why i even bother with the stock 54s, and do i really even need a 54?? The honest answer is absolutely not! But i stil want one! I have looked and looked for a GM LRH 54 with ZERO luck. I have a few options, i could go with the Oregon barrel Co. and have them build me a barrel, i could find a TC Renegade or Hawken .50 Cal Barrel with a Roached out bore, send it off to Mr. Hoyt and have him bore it out to 54 and twist it to my desire, Lyman makes the Great Plains Hunter 1:32 twist, Pedersoli makes a gun i REALLY like the looks of, its called a Traditional Hunter, but its a 1:24 Twist which i feel is just to fast for a 54, i would need to shoot an INSANE SUPER HEAVY bullet to get the length of bullet best suited for a 1:24 Twist, i haven't completely ruled it out but i am leaning more toward the Lyman GP Hunter with the 1:32 twist, surprisingly the price of the Pedersoli Taditional Hunter is really close to the Lyman GP Hunter, i'd bet anything that Pedersoli built it to compete with Lyman's GP Hunter.

[triggerhappy243]

IF I remember correctly, you have some maxi-ball molds. are they 54 cal? have you tried shooting those? I shot mine bare with lube just in the lower lube groove using bore butter and pyrodex. I took your advice of a 6 o'clock hold. I made a pointing arrow with orange paper to make an aiming point. that helped me a bunch. I need to work on my form, need to get new glasses, and want to get some of those felt wads to try. I think I can get a 3 inch group then. Have you tried shooting the lyman plains bullet? that one looks like it would be a god candidate for paper patch.
something else i do, is swab clean the bore between every shot.

[waarp8nt]

My .54 T/C Renegades tend to like the short bullets, like the Buffalo bullet or the Lee R.E.A.L, unfortunately I do not have the paper to prove it. Maybe, if the weather holds out this weekend I will be able to touch off a few.

[triggerhappy243]

PLEASE DO. I have a few friends that shoot the 54 renegade and would like to see groups tighter than minute of barn door.

[54bore]

Trigger, yes i have 5 different TC Molds for 54 Cal, 3 Maxi balls, and 2 Maxi Hunters. I Swab between EVERY shot, Change to a new nipple 184489after 30-40 shots. 184487184488

[54bore]

That is NOT a Lead sled, this particular rest has felt covered feet and can freely slide during recoil. I am NOT a Lead Sled Fan, not only are they hard on your rifle, especially these old muzzleloaders, if you sight in using a Lead Sled with added weight in the Sled you will shoot higher in the field when the rifle is allowed to naturally recoil, this NEARLY cost me a nice buck in 15, i no longer own a Lead Sled, nor will i ever. I gave mine away, and warned the guy of my experience with it. Shooting these old sidelock muzzleloaders in a weighted down Lead Sled is BEGGING for a broken stock! The side screw on a TC sidelock should NEVER be more than just snug, anything over snug is helping ad to the chance of a broken stock

[triggerhappy243]

54bore, the maxi-ball that is bottom right...... I just picked one up too. will you be trying that one any time son?

[54bore]

Those Paper Patched Minie's looked awesome, i had high hopes for them! But ended up being lucky if i hit a target the size of Volkswagen with em. My Between shot swab mixture is blue windex with ammonia and 91% isopropyl alcohol 50/50 mixture, i lightly dampen 1 patch, then follow with 3 dry ones, on the 3rd dry patch i leave it seated against the breech and pop 1 or 2 caps off against the patch, when i remove it i inspect for burn, this does 2 things, pushes out any gunky goo out of the snail and onto the patch, and lets you know if you are getting good spark through the breech, also when i swab i lay my rifle on its side, snail (nipple) side up. If you are not getting a good burn, brownish color on your patch after popping a cap or 2 on it, its likely your nipple is starting to plug up, take a few mins to pull the nipple, run a pipe cleaner through the snail into the breech, take another piece of pipe cleaner or nipple pick and clean the nipple good, back in business!

[54bore]

54bore, the maxi-ball that is bottom right...... I just picked one up too. will you be trying that one any time son?

Trigger, That is a REALLY good mold!! My dad shoots 2 of the Maxi balls VERY well in his .54 Renegade, the bottom left, and the bottom right bullet, He shoots stock open sights, i would say he averages 3-4" groups at 100 yards. Those 2 bullets are about a toss up for accuracy, both do very well for him!!

[54bore]

54bore, the maxi-ball that is bottom right...... I just picked one up too. will you be trying that one any time son?

That bullet out of my mold weighs in at 410 grains, pure lead

[triggerhappy243]

if you can get that snow plow out, I would like to see how well you shoot those like I shoot mine. this mold looks like it has never been used.

[waarp8nt]

Gentlemen it is about 20 degrees colder than operating temperature of this fine fellow. It is supposed to warm up the next few days, but be snowing by the following weekend.

184572

[OverMax]

1-48 twist shoots everything__ just not accurate enough to please.

[Uncle R.]

1-48 twist shoots everything__ just not accurate enough to please.

Yep. This has been my experience as well. I have a couple of 48 twist rifles in .50 and .54, and they both fit that trend.
The 1-48 twist is a compromise, a little fast for round balls and a little slow for conicals and I'd rather have a barrel designed for one or the other instead of both.

My .54 renegade shoots round balls VERY well as long as I keep the charges light. It shoots conicals fair-to-middlin' as long as I keep the bullets short, the charges heavy, or perhaps both. Either way it's a 100 yard hunting rifle. Round balls don't have the power for hunting at longer ranges, and conicals don't have the accuracy.

If I was serious about black powder hunting I'd either go with a "modern" sabot muzzle loader with a fast twist barrel, or (More likely!) get a long twist round ball barrel for that .54 Renegade. I expect either would do a much better job of delivering power with accuracy than the 48 twist barrels I have now.

I don't hunt as much as I used to, and those 48 twist barrels do a fine job with light loads for a pleasant afternoon at the range. I expect I'll keep my muzzle loaders as they are, and I'll use what an old buckskinner I knew called "brass bottle rifles" for hunting.

Uncle R.

[triggerhappy243]

I know..................... I hate the cold too

[54bore]

If I was serious about black powder hunting I'd either go with a "modern" sabot muzzle loader with a fast twist barrel, or (More likely!) get a long twist round ball barrel for that .54 Renegade. I expect either would do a much better job of delivering power with accuracy than the 48 twist barrels I have now.

I have looked at a few modern sabot muzzle loaders but can't seem to get the bug to want one, here in Idaho 209 primers are NO GO during muzzleloader only hunts, No Sabots, and primer has to be exposed to the elements, no optic aid. Basically EVERYTHING that makes an inline good is NOT legal here in Idaho during Muzzleloader only hunts. This is where the Green Mountain LRH barrels come in, you can turn your Ole Renegade or Hawken into a long distance nail driver with big Paper Patched bullets, and in my opinion they just look cool!! I have never shot Sabots in my LRH barrels but im thinking they would shoot them really good? Since Sabots are not legal here during muzzleloader only hunts i cant see a reason to bother trying them.
I have always said that i have no interest in shooting a round ball, but i have decided to give them a go in my stock TC 48" twist 54s, since they dont shoot conicals well, maybe its a Round ball they need? I bought a box of Hornady .490 RB's, and 2 different patch sizes, .15, and .18 pillow tick, from what i read the .18 tick seems to be preferred by most. With this weather it might be spring before i can get out again, to much snow (about 20" here in town) to get anywhere to shoot now without getting stuck, and suppose to snow the next few days, Jan and Feb are our big snow months so there's an above average chance we will get a bunch more, sure makes it hard to get out and enjoy shooting!! Im ready for Spring! My dad has a 4wd tractor with snow plow and bucket, i can get 70-80 yards there safely so its stil possible! I have SEVERAL different load combos to test, in .36 Cal, .45, .50, and .54

[Good Cheer]

For the .54 with 48" twist, has anyone tried the heavy skirted Lyman minie paper patched and sized down to load?
Or the Lyman heavy skirt .533 minie patched?

[54bore]

For the .54 with 48" twist, has anyone tried the heavy skirted Lyman minie paper patched and sized down to load?
Or the Lyman heavy skirt .533 minie patched?

If i wasnt so BURNED out with Stock 48 Twist 54s i would try this! Lee makes a .533 410 i believe it is? The ones i tried were from the bigger of the 2 Lee Minie molds, mine is the 540-415 i believe? They were sized down and paper patched, so what would really be the big difference? 533 you are wrapping up to bore, i sized 1 and 2 thousands under bore. Like anything else it could make a world of difference, but i can PROMISE ya one thing, i wont be finding out, :-D I've had a full diet of stock 48" twist 54s! When i do finally get a fast twist 54 i will go ballistic with it and likely try all of these.

[waarp8nt]

I know this thread is about 54 caliber, I'm offering the picture just for reference to potential. This is shot from a 50 caliber Renegade using the 250 grain (lightest) Lee Real. 50 yards or so using a shooting stick while setting on a bench. 3 shots touching are mine and the 2 shots touching belong to my son. It is 3 degrees here in Illinois today so I will not be shooting, you might catch me bringing in some firewood and playing on the computer, but that will be about it. I cannot find my 54 Caliber Lee Real Mold, otherwise I would consider casting some boolits in hopes of the warmer weather forecast for next weekend. I may purchase another Lee Real mold, since they are not so costly as to break the bank and I've got a hankering to order an 8mm max mold from midsouth.

184655

[54bore]

I know this thread is about 54 caliber, I'm offering the picture just for reference to potential. This is shot from a 50 caliber Renegade using the 250 grain (lightest) Lee Real. 50 yards or so using a shooting stick while setting on a bench. 3 shots touching are mine and the 2 shots touching belong to my son. It is 3 degrees here in Illinois today so I will not be shooting, you might catch me bringing in some firewood and playing on the computer, but that will be about it. I cannot find my 54 Caliber Lee Real Mold, otherwise I would consider casting some boolits in hopes of the warmer weather forecast for next weekend. I may purchase another Lee Real mold, since they are not so costly as to break the bank and I've got a hankering to order an 8mm max mold from midsouth.

184655

Looks GOOD waarp8nt! The funny thing is i have tried my paper patched and sized S&W 500 bullets that i use in my GM LRH .50 in 2 different Stock 48 twist rifles and they both shot DARN good!! One was an old neglected .50 Cal TC Renegade kit gun, and the other was an old CVA Hawken .50 Cal that was BADLY neglected as well, these were friends guns, i cleaned both rifles up the best they could be cleaned and tried my PP bullets in them, i was shocked at how good they shot!! Both rifles shot like your target above. But for whatever reason the stock .54s just dont cut it, at least for me and my testing, it makes no sense?
I do wish i had the smallest Lee R.E.A.L. Bullet mold in .54 Cal, i have the largest of the 2 and those bullets PP and sized shot the absolute best of anything i tried, i really think the little short lighter weight Lee R.E.A.L. might just be the ticket in the stock 48 twist .54s, i stil might end up trying it

[KCSO]

Make sure the breech plug is tight in the tang, any loosness or wiggle can be fatal to accuracy.

[54bore]

Make sure the breech plug is tight in the tang, any loosness or wiggle can be fatal to accuracy.

KCSO, Good point to those that dont think that would matter! My lockup is rock solid, good and tight, no play whatsoever.

[johnson1942]

with all the sidelocks ive built ive done this. ive silversoldered the breach plug and tang together. never a chance to move with this done.