What is the inner size of a .410 with wad ion the shell ??

[Ohio Rusty]

I am looking to do a little bullet testing for my contender .410/.45 barrel. If you were to open a .410 shell and dump out the shot, what is the inner diameter of the shell with the wad still inside ?? Seems to me one could find a tight fitting lead bullet or round ball and load that into the wad with under filler and close the shell, you may have a usable close range bullet. The problem with .410 slugs is they are .410 and the barrel is .452 +or-. That might be better than the terrible accuracy from the .45 colt because of the long jump until it hits rifling ......
Ohio Rusty ><>

[bikerbeans]

ID of a 410 hull is about 0.410" if it is a plastic/metal hull. An all brass hull may have a larger ID.

Google "450 Mongo" for one approach to your problem.

BB

[bikerbeans]

I think i misread your post, the ID of the shotcup is in the .36" range. I have read of folks loading 9mm and 38 cast bullets nose down in the cup of a 410. I have never tried this.

BB

[GhostHawk]

I do not think you are going to find good accuracy in a .45lc/.410 barrel. Compromise situation, you do not have the best chamber for .45's nor best barrel size for .410 slugs.

What they do let you do is shoot a wider variety of ammunition from a single barrel.
But neither side is going to work as well as a dedicated barrel.

Neat concept but flawed.

[victorfox]

if you have the money time et al, you actually could do well with a heeled boolit. Thing is a) plastic hulls are about .40/410 inside and you should have a boolit with a base like that, load it like a regular .45 boolit partially outside the case where the body of the boolit should be .451-454. b) brass .410 hull are .440 at mouth so again needs a heeled boolit.

[victorfox]

I've been reading a lot about the 45/450 mongo and seems it went anywhere. some suggested using a 9.3x74 (i think) case but then not very successful.
I've read about the .480 achiles and it if elongated using other cases like the .444, .303 etc could give a good accuracy.
I've breaking my head for quite a time because I have a smoothbore judge that was supposed to be .410 only but has .450 bore, a stepped cylinder and without rifling I'm not getting accuracy from anything. .410 slugs are too small, .450 round balls wouldn't enter the case mouth among other issues.
The best thing I got at the moment are .440~ round balls loaded as a shotshell. They penetrated the same as a 1/5 foster slug in paper media but accuracy is about 4" at 33ft (10m).

[Outpost75]

My WW1 era cylinder bore .44/12mm/.410 shotgun has a .427" bore diameter and I load .425" cast round balls from a Lee mold. Accuracy is not great, but better that keyholing .44-40 cowboy loads shot from the smoothbore .410. More effective is loading multiple .390 cast round balls.

171475171476171477

[gunarea]

Hey Ohio Rusty
Not exactly the answer to your question but pertinent. I have done extensive work with 410 loading to accommodate a young small boys desire to hunt. Somewhere there is a thread on it.
Using 410 wads, petals cut to length and twist folded, accuracy of rifle quality is possible. Several different projectiles used did very well from smoothbore and rifled actions. Projectile weight and designs that performed well included; 36 cal RB 64gr, 9mm 125gr, 38 cal 125gr, 38 cal 160gr and 35 cal 200gr. The 410 hull used was cut to length for each different loading. Testing was of ladder type loading using only Hercules 2400. Pressure monitoring was only through observation. Velocity statistics being benchmark for steps. After safe reliable chronograph readings became consistent and loading down to mechanics, the boy variable was introduced.
Daniel is the young man for whom these loads were developed. At eight years old he was of small stature and subject to harm from heavy recoil. Testing first for recoil levels, a 36 cal roundball load was well within his capabilities and we quickly stepped up to the 9mm 125gr. Accuracy tests followed with hundreds of these 410/9mm cartridges fired through three different firearms. A Mossburg 500, Browning o/u and a Savage 410/22. The Savage was equipped with adjustable sights and therefore a reference for accuracy. At fifty yards Daniel could consistently hit water bottles. Me and his dad struggled to do so well with our full sized 410s. Although we pressed the boy to use the Savage, his preference was the cut down Mossburg. Long story longer, he went on to harvest Turkey with head shots at a rate embarrassing to his dad and me.
The successful loading of 410 with cast projectiles is very possible to do with accuracy. The work involved is not so much for a dedicated and devote bulleteer. If you desire to pursue this endeavor, I am at the ready with experienced information. Oh, by the way, Daniel is now 6'3", 250lbs and doesn't flinch from much of anything. Best of skill to you.
Roy

[Ohio Rusty]

Thanks all for the information and tests you have done in the past. I appreciate all the information. I really like my .410/.45 14 inch contender barrel. That is why the quest for a slug other than the .45 long colt. I emptied a 2 1/2 inch shell of it's half ounce of 6 shot, which weighed 218 grains. I mic'd the inside of the 410 shell and it measured right on .375. I found that interesting. (That is the inside diameter including the wad in place.) I do have a mould for a .380 conical hollow point round nose bullet that was made for the .36 cap and ball pistol. I dug out a stash of those conicals and that conical bullet weights 126 grains in pure lead. Thinking about a filler ....A piece of rolled up corrugated cardboard as the filler between the base of the wad and the base of the bullet should work. With the wad around the bullet, it may act like a sabot and spin the conical. A 3 inch .410 with it's 11/16th ounce load of shot weighs 300 grains. I don't have any .410 reloader so I currently need to shoot using loaded shells with the shot emptied. I'll use the shot in my BP shotgun. I'll start with the 2 1/2 inch .410 and see how they shoot.
Thanks again all for your input .....
Ohio Rusty

[victorfox]

I misread your post too, I thought you're talking about the hull alone. Yes, you're correct, I can fit a .38 or .380 boolit easily inside the cup shot, the ones we have here taper from 9mm to about 8.5 at bottom.

If you want to play with boolits inside cup why don't you go big and get some spitzer rifle boolits to try? That would at least be cool... :D

[BAGTIC]

I suspect most spritzer bullets are not very efficient in the velocities attainable from a low pressure .410 case. Possibly an expanded .444 Marlin case would work. At least a brass case would permit a bullet being seated out far enough to at least approach the lands.

[SSGOldfart]

Hmmm I've not done anything with the 45colt/410, but the 45/70 barrel worked great with a 2"-410 #6 shells the old blue ones. Does anybody make these anymore? I can cut down 444Marlin brass to make them,but everyone is pretty proud of that case??

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

My WW1 era cylinder bore .44/12mm/.410 shotgun has a .427" bore diameter and I load .425" cast round balls from a Lee mold. Accuracy is not great, but better that keyholing .44-40 cowboy loads shot from the smoothbore .410. More effective is loading multiple .390 cast round balls.

Outpost75, I believe you have a Stevens Model 101 shotgun, which was chambered for the .44 shot cartridge (.44-40 dimensions). Those that have been reamed out to chamber a .410 shoot loose pretty quickly with even black powder loads.

I have one of these cute little shotguns. I cut off some brass .410 shells to the overall length of a loaded .44 round, then annealed them and ran them into a .44-40 die. Produced a .44-40 case with a long neck. I load those over black powder and a cut down .410 shotcup. I like to put old guns back into use. Someday, I hope to bag a cottontail with it.

[victorfox]

172283

Left is a patched ideal slug four center have 6gr of fast powder card wads and 10g (about 1/3 or 3/8oz) of 7 1/2 shot right a ~440 RB over 28gr 3FG...

[woody1]

if you have the money time et al, you actually could do well with a heeled boolit. Thing is a) plastic hulls are about .40/410 inside and you should have a boolit with a base like that, load it like a regular .45 boolit partially outside the case where the body of the boolit should be .451-454. b) brass .410 hull are .440 at mouth so again needs a heeled boolit.

Late to this thread but couldn't one paper patch the front end of a boolit while leaving the heel at .410 size? Just a thought.

[victorfox]

I don't know but I might try something on this line soon.

[victorfox]

How do you evaluate this experiment?

http://www.kegisland.com/45-gavel.html

It would be an option maybe