Unsociable

[TXGunNut]

A little after sunset a guy pulling a trailer stopped out front and eventually knocked on the door. (Doorbell doesn't work, friends knock on back door or walk right in). "NO SOLICITORS" sign right next to the ornamental doorbell button. Then he knocked again so I found some pants (just out of the shower) and grabbed a trusty Winchester riot gun. He was halfway back to his truck when I opened the door. He told me he was "looking for a friend" and I told him to get....out of here. He didn't understand so I stepped out so he could see "Blondie" and repeated myself. I hate repeating myself. He understood "Winchester". lol. He had a little SUV on his trailer so I figured he was a repo man.
Old school riot guns are still pretty awesome, didn't even bother to chamber a round. I love my blonde stock riot shotguns, a little showy but definitely an attention-getter. Good thing he didn't try the back door, lol. Shotgun back there is butt-ugly and mean, lol.

[mtnman31]

Your post is in stark conflict with the third quote in your signature line.

Edit- sorry, second quote, from Lonesome Dove.

[bedbugbilly]

While I am a firm believer in answering a door with caution, in many states, your actions could get you arrested for "brandishing a firearm" . . . maybe that law doesn't apply in your state? While you may have been irritated with being disturbed by a knock on the door, do you always answer the door in that manner? In your description of the event, you state that you answered the door and he was already halfway back to his truck. Could you not have seen that through a window and just let him return to his truck and leave instead of having to put on a "show of force"? Seems like that would have been the easiest path to take. While I am a firm believer in the right of an individual to protect his home, I also believe that over reacting to a situation where there is no apparent threat is not the best option to follow.

I had a situation this past year where I was home alone and in the basement when the dogs made a fuss upstairs. Long story short, a guy and a girl, both heroin addicts (they were arrested several days after the event) stopped at my house and basically "cased" my house. I came upstairs and stepped out to question what they wanted and I got a reply of they were looking for someone but weren't sure where they lived. Yes - very similar to your description. BUT . . . I was not armed even though I had a loaded pistol inside. That changed the way I do things now . . but now, the pistol is concealed on me (I carry but never have in the house when I'm home). Had I stepped out with the handgun in my hand and asked them what they wanted, if they had been any other innocent individual, I could have been arrested for "brandishing". There is a difference between feeling "threatened" and reacting to a non-threatening situation and acting in a reckless manner to just show how much testosterone a person has. From your description - there appeared to be no "threat" or "threatening action" towards you - as you said he was halfway back to his truck. So where was the "bodily threat" to you that required the show of force and brandishing?

But . . that's just my humble thoughts . . . maybe folks act different where you live. I think mtnman21 makes a very good point . . . .

[w5pv]

Thanks for the right to protect your property in Texas,Amen

[Petrol & Powder]

bedbug - I think merely arming yourself would not reach the definition of "brandishing". Pointing the gun at the person might cross that line:

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.234e Brandishing firearm in public; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.Sec. 234e.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not willfully and knowingly brandish a firearm in public.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to either of the following:
(a) A peace officer lawfully performing his or her duties as a peace officer.
(b) A person lawfully acting in self-defense or defense of another under the self-defense act, 2006 PA 309, MCL 780.971 to 780.974.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

Some people will make the argument that in your own home and confronting a unknown subject, it is actually a good idea to announce that you are armed. That action puts the other individual on notice that you are prepared to defend yourself and removes all question that aggressive action will be met with force. The wisdom of that tactic is debatable.
In any event, merely displaying a firearm in your own home but not pointing it at someone; probably doesn't rise to the level of "Brandishing" a firearm.

[MT Gianni]

Another difference between the South and North, sunset last night was 9:24, last light around 10. Anyone messing around that time of night would be greeted with more than caution unless they had on a cowboy hat. Hat would probably mean it was a neighbor, male or female.

[osteodoc08]

Guys, he wasn't in public, he was at a private residence. He could have walked out in underwear with bandoliers across his chest and shotguns in each hand. Nothing wrong with it. Now if he pointed it at the guy, that's completely different.

He clearly has marked no solicitation. He asked the guy to leave already and the guy didn't seem to quite understand plain English. Probably was a repo guy or looking for someone or was possibly casing his home. You never know now a days.

No harm, no foul from my perspective. I've answered my door plenty of times at odd hours with a handgun and flashlight.

[OS OK]

He needs a sign out by the road that reads...

​"You're already in my 'crosshairs'...you better have a damn good reason to knock on my door!"

[Garyshome]

"there appeared to be no "threat""
The important part of this statement is "appeared"
Now I don't think it's all that smart to show people what you have in your house, I would have walked out with the shotty behind me, not in plain sight. Or just let the dogs handle it for me.

[44man]

No problems here, friends and neighbors walk in. Ring the bell and it is not a friend or neighbor. Might be UPS is all. I don't have a gun loaded anywhere and might be because I shoot all the time. No fool will come here.
There are druggies up town but are afraid to go where a gun is.

[Petrol & Powder]

I quoted Michigan law because bedbugbilly appears to be in Michigan during the summer and I was addressing the event he shared. The OP appears to be in Texas and I'm not sure what Texas law is concerning brandishing but I'm willing to bet he didn't violate the law either. Having a gun at the ready is far different than pointing a gun at someone.

There's a difference between arming yourself and brandishing; particularly at your house.


I tend to agree with the practice of discretely arming yourself so that you are prepared if the need to defend yourself arises but you don't display a weapon in the initial encounter.
I also think it is better to be polite but firm at first until you can grasp the situation. Not every encounter is founded in malicious intent.

[Rufus Krile]

When I answer my door, day or night, I have a pistol in my hand. I also have a rotty and a dobe trying to introduce themselves at my knee... any of which should give me enough time to get to the shotgun if needed. I used to think running the back roads of South Texas was dangerous before I retired... The real danger is in towns because that's where the bad guys live. Brandishing? Down here that's just a Visual Aids Warning Procedure. Heads on fence posts might be more effective, but the neighbors are sure to complain.

[Col4570]

Is it not alright to answer the door in the USA.

[Petrol & Powder]

Is it not alright to answer the door in the USA.

Generally one encounters no problems answering one's door but many subscribe to the Teddy Roosevelt - "Speak softly and carry a big stick" philosophy.

[Hardcast416taylor]

While I am a firm believer in answering a door with caution, in many states, your actions could get you arrested for "brandishing a firearm" . . . maybe that law doesn't apply in your state? While you may have been irritated with being disturbed by a knock on the door, do you always answer the door in that manner? In your description of the event, you state that you answered the door and he was already halfway back to his truck. Could you not have seen that through a window and just let him return to his truck and leave instead of having to put on a "show of force"? Seems like that would have been the easiest path to take. While I am a firm believer in the right of an individual to protect his home, I also believe that over reacting to a situation where there is no apparent threat is not the best option to follow.

I had a situation this past year where I was home alone and in the basement when the dogs made a fuss upstairs. Long story short, a guy and a girl, both heroin addicts (they were arrested several days after the event) stopped at my house and basically "cased" my house. I came upstairs and stepped out to question what they wanted and I got a reply of they were looking for someone but weren't sure where they lived. Yes - very similar to your description. BUT . . . I was not armed even though I had a loaded pistol inside. That changed the way I do things now . . but now, the pistol is concealed on me (I carry but never have in the house when I'm home). Had I stepped out with the handgun in my hand and asked them what they wanted, if they had been any other innocent individual, I could have been arrested for "brandishing". There is a difference between feeling "threatened" and reacting to a non-threatening situation and acting in a reckless manner to just show how much testosterone a person has. From your description - there appeared to be no "threat" or "threatening action" towards you - as you said he was halfway back to his truck. So where was the "bodily threat" to you that required the show of force and brandishing?

But . . that's just my humble thoughts . . . maybe folks act different where you live. I think mtnman21 makes a very good point . . . .


I have a friend that lived N of Pontiac, Mi in the city of Lake Orion. He had a home right on the shore of the lake of the same name. Due to the number of robberies of homes by those from Detroit and Pontiac looking for a home to rob my friend has adopted a manner of answering his door, even if it is me or another friend calling. He only opens the door to the extent of the security chain. If he does open the door he has his right arm at his side with his hand behind his leg. In the hand is his Colt Combat Commander .45 cocked and locked. He said he has only had to do a `show and tell` once with the Colt to send a person on his way to find his nameless `friend`.Robert

[dtknowles]

Is it not alright to answer the door in the USA.

Its a big country, it varies by address and zip code. I know some people are prepared for anything. Never had anyone knock who I would have wanted to have a gun in my hand, I would look like a loon to have answered the door armed. Half the time it would be the neighbors kids. We did install security cameras, front and back with recording. It can't hurt to see who's there before you open the door.

Tim

Tim

[762 shooter]

With GPS, cell phones, Google, and all the other invasions of privacy, if you don't know where your "friend" lives you are either an idiot or a ne'er-do-well.

If you don't like the sight of a firearm on my person tough mammeries.

I don't like unannounced visitors.

762

[DerekP Houston]

Is it not alright to answer the door in the USA.

depends on the area and what time it is. Do you expect unknown people at your doors after dark? i know what all my neighbors look like on site and can tell who doesn't belong. Your door must be stouter than mine, though my little dogs barking scare off most solicitors. It is marked in our subdivision "NO SOLICITATION" and marked on most houses, you have to be pretty ballsy to still think you are going to get a sale going door to door. Personally I would have opened it and seen what the fuss was, but my wife sleeps with a shotgun by the door when I'm out of town. All about your personal comfort level.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Before we move to a senior community we lived on a road that was not well lit although our driveway was. Several times people knocked on my door well after dark. I would look out the window before opening the door and I always had a 1911 hidden in my hand behind the door. One night someone knocked, I got my 45 looked out the window, saw a young women and a car in the driveway with a man at the wheel. When I opened the door the women asked if her friend, sister whatever lived there. I asked, what's her name, Joe she said. She went on about driving xx amount of miles but didn't know the address where the person lived. I knew what the knock was about. They were hoping no one would be home and execute a fast in and out. It didn't happen. That was not the only incident to take place late at night.

[jonp]

Your post is in stark conflict with the third quote in your signature line.
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a depleted counterbalance devices?

[blademasterii]

I find answering the door shirtless wearing a holstered sidearm cuts down on repeat visits. If you know me or are expected a 6' 200lb bearded man wearing a gun answering the door is expected, if you don't it makes for short polite exits. Florida has castle doctrin and most people know it. I have no duty to retreat. My yard is fenced. If you are inside my fence without permission you had better be inline directly to my door. If you cannot carry on a polite conversation with me while i'm armed friend or not it is probably not a conversation I am interested in continuing anyhow.

[OS OK]

I find answering the door shirtless wearing a holstered sidearm cuts down on repeat visits. If you know me or are expected a 6' 200lb bearded man wearing a gun answering the door is expected, if you don't it makes for short polite exits. Florida has castle doctrin and most people know it. I have no duty to retreat. My yard is fenced. If you are inside my fence without permission you had better be inline directly to my door. If you cannot carry on a polite conversation with me while i'm armed friend or not it is probably not a conversation I am interested in continuing anyhow.

You oughta at least...put some underwear on...people are gonna start calling you...'two guns!'

[blademasterii]

cant knock it if it works. ;)

[DougGuy]

There is always the fact that if you go to the door unarmed, then retreat into your house to retrieve arms, this in effect is premeditation. A woman was convicted of this very act in Virginia, when she saw her ex at the door she went and got her revolver and then opened the door to confront him, she ended up shooting and killing him on her doorstep and went to prison for such. The deciding factor was her going to get the gun, where had she got it first then came to the door, there would not have been an avenue of premeditation for the DA to use to convict her with. Live and learn.

[TheDoctor]

I actually drew mine last night! Pulled into my driveway, and a car stopped in the road, blocking my driveway. I sat for a second watching, then the guy got out of the car, and started walking toward me. This was around 22:00. I came out of my car with a quickness, gun already in hand. Wound up being someone that was lost. Funny as it sounds, it happens here. Guy stopped walking real quick, and kept his hands where I could see them. You just never know what's going to happen, and when.

[Half Dog]

Old school riot guns are still pretty awesome, didn't even bother to chamber a round. I love my blonde stock riot shotguns, a little showy but definitely an attention-getter. Good thing he didn't try the back door, lol. Shotgun back there is butt-ugly and mean, lol.

Well...this is Texas.

[TXGunNut]

Your post is in stark conflict with the third quote in your signature line.

I dunno, I think it's pretty rude to keep knocking on a stranger's door at sundown with some lame question about a "friend". I'm very polite to a point but past that point I do what it takes to get my point across.
I'm familiar with Texas' "brandishing" statutes, what I did didn't meet that definition.

[TXGunNut]

With GPS, cell phones, Google, and all the other invasions of privacy, if you don't know where your "friend" lives you are either an idiot or a ne'er-do-well.

If you don't like the sight of a firearm on my person tough mammeries.

I don't like unannounced visitors.

762

Exactly! What kind of fool knocks on a stranger's door looking for a friend? If I know someone well enough to drop by his house you can bet I have his phone number and address.
Reminds me of a guy that approached me from behind a wall at a lonely highway rest stop late one night. I turned to face him and he suddenly wanted to know what time it was. He was wearing a watch, I wasn't. I was wearing a pistol, however, and he got a real good look at the business end of it. I'm not afraid of the dark, I just don't like people who ask stupid questions in the dark. With my LE background I'm well aware that a question from a stranger in some situations isn't about the answer, it's a distraction technique.

[leeggen]

Where I live if you come after dark or even in daylight without calling first you enter at your own risk. There is 14 no tresspassing and keep out signs on the drive. Even the police dept is polite enough to cvall from end of road before just showing up. Seems a guy lives down there that you don't want to cross eyes with. There has been a couple times the police were called and the intruder was escorted away with a statement from the PD that your lucky he should have shot you. PD time from call to house is approx. 10 minutes at the best and they are breaking the speed limit big time. We used to have lots of drive hunters and poachers come down the drive. Your own safety is in your own hands it is up to you what is in them at that time.
CD

[Moonie]

Everyone I know knows I open carry a pistol on my hip at all times, except at work where it isn't allowed or have to conceal for legal reasons. If you don't like me answering the door with a gun on my hip you shouldn't be at my door in the first place.

[Buck Neck It]

You guys lead an interesting life!

I just open the dang door, it is usually the flower lady or one of my wife's friends.

[koehlerrk]

Man, some of these stories make me glad I live where I do. Quiet little town where everyone knows everyone else. I'm on the edge of town, at the end of my back yard is woods followed by a swamp. Rough going, nobody goes through there. My two neighbors... One is a retired couple. He's always puttering in his garden or garage, she's inside or out on the porch with her two pugs. Other neighbor is a cop, a damned good one at that. Oh, across the street and down two houses is our mayor and his wife, a retired state trooper.

Its a quiet street in a quiet town... I like it that way.

[OS OK]

"Mayberry huh? You couldn't ask for a better place to live. When you see Andy again, be sure to say 'Hey!'."

[Lloyd Smale]

I thank God I'm living in an area that I can even leave my doors unlocked when I'm away for a day or two. Keys are left in the vehicles in the driveway. If I had to answer the door with a shotgun id be looking for a new place to call home.

[OS OK]

Morning Lloyd....yup, even my wallet is in the console, keys in the cup holder...I never loose the keys.
Can't recall all the times in the store at checkout and remember that my wallet is in the console outside.
I don't go to town too much, why leave paradise if you don't have to?

[DerekP Houston]

Shrug, we live in an older neighborhood in the suburbs of houston. In the last 2 years most of the single family homes have been turned into rentals with high turnover and thefts/vandalism has increased. We pay for a sheriff to patrol and monitor but I have yet to see his car leave the driveway. In our subdivision. We have 7 constables/ sheriff or assorted Leo yet still had an older gentleman robbed by a group at gunpoint jn his driveway ~6 months ago. Like I said, it all depends on your comfort level and location , hard to understand what others see going on.

[OS OK]

Morning Derek...Yes the American Giant is slowly awakening and he is filled with a terrible resolve!
History will repeat itself once more.
The tree of Freedom is watered with the blood of Patriots.

[DerekP Houston]

Morning Derek...Yes the American Giant is slowly awakening and he is filled with a terrible resolve!
History will repeat itself once more.
The tree of Freedom is watered with the blood of Patriots.

Indeed, I have 2 more neighbors who have gone from unarmed to "hey Derek I think we'd like to get our CHL's can you teach us how to shoot these things"

[OS OK]

Every person you witness to is like pulling a brick out of the left's foundation...every shooter you train is like pulling 10 bricks out, only to shove them back under the 2'nd!
"The Giant's face twitches as he comes to life from his deep dream state..."

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Man, some of these stories make me glad I live where I do. Quiet little town where everyone knows everyone else. I'm on the edge of town, at the end of my back yard is woods followed by a swamp. Rough going, nobody goes through there. My two neighbors... One is a retired couple. He's always puttering in his garden or garage, she's inside or out on the porch with her two pugs. Other neighbor is a cop, a damned good one at that. Oh, across the street and down two houses is our mayor and his wife, a retired state trooper.

Its a quiet street in a quiet town... I like it that way.
Me too,,,glad I live in a quiet small town.
I can't think of the last time a stranger knocked on my front door after dark. The street lights provide adequate light to see any visitors.

[GRUMPA]

I don't have people coming to my door, maybe it's because I live remote. I'm at least 10 miles from the closest town, 4 miles as a crow flies from pavement, and the house sits in the middle of 40 fenced acres. During an average year you can count the amount of vehicles that drive past our home on 1 hand, and still have fingers left over. Maybe since the property is fenced, and the gate closed, nobody wants to take the chance some crazy folks just might live there.

Closest neighbor is over a mile away, and I could care less about them. After that it's 2 miles to the closest neighbor and I've never met them yet, and they've been there for about a year now.

So greeting someone that knocks on my door just doesn't happen, we can see a car coming in 1/2hr before they even get here..

Edit: Getting curious?.....just click the link in my signature and then click and read the Sticky. On the bottom of the thread I have a picture of the shop, not the house, just the shop.

[OS OK]

We too have this delightful setting, only 8 acres though, but it's located at the very end of a potholed rock road a mile from the asphalt.
Our sign at the gate...'Trails End'.

[DerekP Houston]

We too have this delightful setting, only 8 acres though, but it's located at the very end of a potholed rock road a mile from the asphalt.
Our sign at the gate...'Trails End'.

Envious of yalls setup, hopefully my 20 yr plan will work out and we end up on a similar type plot.

[OS OK]

You have the right idea in getting there, it certainly ain't done overnight...patience and planning and a little good fortune, before you know it you'll have the grandkids hanging around wanting a ride on the tractor.
The real satisfaction is having that 'deed' without any liens against it...that took me 41 years of rolling equity and a few setbacks in the housing market. Keep your eyes on the brass ring it's there for you taking...

[Mica_Hiebert]

I have answered my door a few times late at night with a gun in my hand, always tucked behind my right leg. one time it was a cop and I calmly and politely asked him to excuse me for a second while i got some pants (and ditched my gun)... that one could have ended badly! other two times a girl was looking for an after party and apparently got the wrong house on my street with a white car in the driveway and the other time a woman had been beaten badly by her boyfriend was bleeding allot from her face. I still wouldnt let her in but I called the police for her and stayed on the porch with her until they got there.

[mold maker]

Those of you that sit smugly in your own little world thinking that distance matters, haven't seen urban sprawl surround you, yet. It will happen, and the subdivision of foreigners next door will be a reality.
I was raised at the end of a 1/2 mile driveway outside of town with one police that also read meters and picked up trash and stray dogs.
Now I'm in the same house, 2 blocks from the center of town with more than a mile of dense population around me.
We too never locked a door or took the keys out of the car, but times and circumstances change.
Last month a young drunk punk slept it off in my unlocked spare car. He got surprised at 4;30 AM and left without one shoe, his broken phone, and his empty wallet. He entered a neighbor home and was found using the bathroom, by the lady of the house. He came back the next night to retrieve his belongings and broke a window to gain entry since the police recommended I lock it up.
Surprise, the police had his belongings, I've got a broken $260. window and now the punk is also charged with a second B&E.
It's coming to your little corner of paradise, sooner than you think.
At my age, if you knock on my door day or night, you can expect me to answer well armed and ready to defend my family. Even though I can see the PD from my front door I will only expect them to make out another report, after the fact.
In the early days of this country, we knew all our town folk and could usually depend on them for whatever help we needed. Now we seldom know who they are and have to be self-reliant. Being armed is now just part of responsible progress.

[OS OK]

Your wrong there pard...it's happened to me in So. Cal.. When they bought the ranch next door and started grading for 350 new homes, that was my cue to list. Because of the timing I almost doubled my investment in 5 years and hauled butt to the mountains in No. Cal. If they develop around me now, they will have to invent a way to build on 30* slopes and give away 4X4's with each home sold.
I think you sat there past the time you knew to get out...that or too naive to see the handwriting on the wall.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A friend of mine in Scotland proudly sports a "No solicitors" sign I brought for him from Ace Hardware in Kuwait City. In the UK a solicitor is an attorney.

[Hogtamer]

What kind of feller takes a shower on Thursday anyhow?:groner:

[crowbuster]

What kind of feller takes a shower on Thursday anyhow?:groner:

Oh lord, you made me laugh. That was the only part of the story I found strange. HAHA

[Hardcast416taylor]

I must be going soft in my old age. I`ve gone from a .45 acp at the door to a 12 gauge riot shotgun with OO buckshot to now I only have my 9mm Barretta with 11 + 1 in it. Seems people know about me and my no - nonsense approach to anybody that I don`t know. I`ve also found that target practicing with my .416 Taylor keeps people aware that I shoot something larger than a .22! Buy I believe that most in my area (cow country) remember me as a LEO. Seventh Day Adventists don`t come near my place for any reason!Robert

[Blackwater]

I have no problem answering a door with a shotgun or whatever IF one's instincts tells him to do that. Just because anyone here has never HAD anyone bad come to their door does NOT mean it doesn't happen! And "home invasions," where they don't knock, but bust down the door and rush in, taking everyone by surprise are increasing in frequency. One happened to an elderly and medically challenged coupel just a couple of months ago here.

The time to prepare for bad guys is BEFORE they act, NOT afterwards. And nowadays, strangers at the door need to give rise to more concern than they once did. I grew up with screen doors open and unlocked at night. This "modern" world really doesn't fit my idea of "paradise," no matter how hard it's pushed as such! And the degree of cruelty and malice shown today by many bad guys is simply unparalleled! The wise deal with it. The "stylish" don't. I try to be wise whenever I can. Style was never one of my strong suits.

[TXGunNut]

What kind of feller takes a shower on Thursday anyhow?:groner:

A guy that got a haircut, that's who! ;-)

[TXGunNut]

I seldom explain myself but will take a swing at it anyway. Blondie came to the door with me because she was the closest gun to the front door. There may have been a .380 in the pocket of the pants I slipped into but it's function is not as a primary defensive weapon. I live on a dead end road and this clown approached from the dead end.
As I posted elsewhere when someone approaches me with a stupid question I check my flanks and engage, with 20-30 minute response from the SO I can't afford to be wrong.

[Blackwater]

You did good, but more urbanized folks just can't relate to your situation. And today, just about everybody seems to think there's only one answer to every question, no matter how widely the situations may vary. Had the more urban types a greater appreciation of your situation, they might understand, but today, it's more important to have an opinion than it is to really understand the situation, and any differences that might exist between their situation and yours.

And, I have a friend who keeps a chain link fenced in yard full of very expensive equipment. He hired a young fellow once, and when he pulled up to the gate, handed the kid a key to unlock the gate, and drove in. Later, the kid asked him "What's to keep people from just coming in and busting the lock, and stealing all this stuff?" My friend looked at him rather peevedly, and said, "My reputation!" And once a person has a reputation for not tolerating fools gladly, fools tend to at least be smart enough to avoid those folks. Like my friend, I'm betting your reputation keeps those probing for possible mischief away. More urban types can't appreciate what that can really be worth in your situation. They simply don't have the basis for understanding it.

[Lloyd Smale]

glad I live where the shotgun at the door is there in case raccoons or squirrels are spotted. I have to wonder. I see some on this thread that brag about where they live and then post they need a shotgun to answer the door. Yes I'm not so stupid as not to know that MAYBE some out of town person might wonder down my road in the middle of the night. But to be afraid in broad daylight of someone so much that I need a gun to answer the door would turn a light bulb off in my head. The day that I feel that's necessary will be the day I pound a for sale sign up in the front yard.

[mold maker]

glad I live where the shotgun at the door is there in case raccoons or squirrels are spotted. I have to wonder. I see some on this thread that brag about where they live and then post they need a shotgun to answer the door. Yes I'm not so stupid as not to know that MAYBE some out of town person might wonder down my road in the middle of the night. But to be afraid in broad daylight of someone so much that I need a gun to answer the door would turn a light bulb off in my head. The day that I feel that's necessary will be the day I pound a for sale sign up in the front yard.

If your self-confident that it isn't needed, than your totally correct, until after the fact you discover you were wrong. Hindsight isn't a guess, but the lack of foresight is sometimes deadly.

[Lloyd Smale]

been here other then being in the service for 60 years. Id say the odds are pretty good in my favor that its safe to answer my door. A door by the way that's never once been locked in the 30 years ive lived here. that is other then locking my first wife out a couple times. Probably lucky I didn't have answer the door about then with a shotgun! Id probably have bars for my front door right now.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Just me, but whatever the cause, I keep firearms concealed, but in hand until there's a need in a situation like this...usually a .45 ACP in Commander guise.

[starmac]

I have always lived in places I didn't feel the need to lock the doors, heck family and friends have keys just incase they are locked anyway.
BUT I have worked in some pretty seedy places. Back in the 80's I was on a job in Baytown, a couple of other hands and I rented a cheap second story apartment in a not so good neighborhood to stay in during the week. I stayed there over the weekend to do some maintenence, and for some reason was also babysitting a friends pit bull. Someone knocks on the door at 2 am. I don't have many friends around that I would expect to be there, so I answer the door with my cap on, my tidy whiteys and a 44 in my hand. It is a black dude in a trench coat full of pockets on the inside selling jewelry, watches etc, he explained I would have to order bigger items like TV's and such. I hadn't turned any lights on, but invited him in and just went back in my bedroom and closed the door. A few minutes later he called out Mistuh, come get this dog. I told him to shut up and leave my dog alone, I was trying to sleep. At 6 am or so I got up and got dressed, he was on his tiptoes in the corner of the living room with bigun sitting a foot or so in front of him, I called him off and told the dude to git. For some reason he was the only unwanted visitor I ever had for the rest of my stay there. lol

[lightload]

My comment is rethink not locking doors front and back. At home I keep a .380 Ruger in my pocket or continue to wear a Smith j frame .38 in a holster. Both are so lightweight that they offer no discomfort. If I don't know you, I don't open the door. Although I was once big and strong, arthritis has changed everything. There was a time when many would have thought twice about jumping me, but those days are past.

[Blackwater]

I have always lived in places I didn't feel the need to lock the doors, heck family and friends have keys just incase they are locked anyway.
BUT I have worked in some pretty seedy places. Back in the 80's I was on a job in Baytown, a couple of other hands and I rented a cheap second story apartment in a not so good neighborhood to stay in during the week. I stayed there over the weekend to do some maintenence, and for some reason was also babysitting a friends pit bull. Someone knocks on the door at 2 am. I don't have many friends around that I would expect to be there, so I answer the door with my cap on, my tidy whiteys and a 44 in my hand. It is a black dude in a trench coat full of pockets on the inside selling jewelry, watches etc, he explained I would have to order bigger items like TV's and such. I hadn't turned any lights on, but invited him in and just went back in my bedroom and closed the door. A few minutes later he called out Mistuh, come get this dog. I told him to shut up and leave my dog alone, I was trying to sleep. At 6 am or so I got up and got dressed, he was on his tiptoes in the corner of the living room with bigun sitting a foot or so in front of him, I called him off and told the dude to git. For some reason he was the only unwanted visitor I ever had for the rest of my stay there. lol

Starmac, I love your technique! Most folks just don't know how to "improvise and overcome." You obviously DO! The need for a man to have a "good reputation" isn't over just YET, is it?

[Outpost75]

Is it not alright to answer the door in the USA.

I don't answer the door if not expecting anyone. Door is double-locked all the time,even when I am at home or working in the yard. I carry at home. All the time. Riot gun is cruiser-ready and accessible near front door.

When I lived in the DC suburbs a Vietnamese neighbor was murdered in a home invasion robbery. Dirt bags in rental house nearby often transposed nu9mbers in newspaper and Craig's List ads and strangers often knocked on my door, or that of neighbor who was killed.

Best advice I can give is DON'T OPEN THE STINKIN' DOOR. KEEP IT LOCKED, CARRY ALL THE TIME!

[dtknowles]

I live on a golf course in Titusville Florida, Winter home of the Canadian PGA, Royal Oak Country Club. Home was invaded twice. First time was a cat burglar, came an went without being detected until morning when the wife's wallet was missing, it was in her purse handing on a dining room chair. We installed a security system, then the second time while we were at a big fair in town. The security system was not the kind that calls the cops. Neither time being armed helped.

Tim

[facetious]

Few years ago there had been reports of someone walking in on people to rob them in our area. At the time my wife's brother was staying with us and and works with the DOC, at the time he was a guard and had just came home from work and was in the kitchen still in uniform when some guy walks in the front door. My wife asked what he wanted and he replied that he was looking for the party or some thing like that. That is when her brother stepped into the room and I think the guy mite have pooped a little. Said he thinks he had the wrong house and took off.

He called in to the PD and reported it and told them that we had guns in the house and could use them if need be. That was when he told us that he had to give us the "talk". I turns out that some times some of their customers will have friends on the out side look up family members and stop by to visit. So now we keep two .357's in different rooms and a 18.5 inch 870 in the bed room. It has been almost twenty tears and nothing has ever happened but I still keep the guns where thy are. He also gave us a can of the pepper spray thy use. Said it was better then the stuff we can buy.

Last year some one was going through cars looking for stuff and stopped by our house one night, I was at work and the wife said the lights were off inside and she could see some one with a flashlight out side looking in the car so she got her gun and turned on the light opened the door so he could see the gun and asked what he was looking for. She said he took off like his butt was on fire. Thinking it mite have been some local kid, must of made him think again about what he was doing because we didn't hear about any car break in's for a long time.

p.s. the guy who walked in on us got caught a few weeks later.

[Col4570]

We get allsorts knocking at our front Door, Jehovas witnesses, Double glazing salesmen,Gardeners etc,I usualy approach from the back of the house and appear behind them,one or two jump out of their skin when I speak from behind.I must admit to having a few strategic placed items within easy reach but in the main this is,nt a crime pattern where I live.Fingers crossed.

[joebill1]

I open carry, every day, all day. We live about 40 miles north of the Mexican border, and from time to time have unwanted guests aproach the gate and make known their wants and needs, to which the answer is always "NO" and a phone call to the border patrol.

There has been a lot of illeagal related crime, often violent, here, over the years, but we like being 50 miles from the nearest stoplight in one direction, more like 100 miles in any other direction. The solatude is ample compensation for the risk.

Have not had to shoot anybody, but HAVE made it clear to a few that I was more than willing. I also find that there is no advantage at all to having those around you be entirely sure of your sanity. Re-enforces property boundries to leave them a bit in doubt....Joe

[Char-Gar]

I quoted Michigan law because bedbugbilly appears to be in Michigan during the summer and I was addressing the event he shared. The OP appears to be in Texas and I'm not sure what Texas law is concerning brandishing but I'm willing to bet he didn't violate the law either. Having a gun at the ready is far different than pointing a gun at someone.

There's a difference between arming yourself and brandishing; particularly at your house.


I tend to agree with the practice of discretely arming yourself so that you are prepared if the need to defend yourself arises but you don't display a weapon in the initial encounter.
I also think it is better to be polite but firm at first until you can grasp the situation. Not every encounter is founded in malicious intent.

Texas has no brandishing law, but it does have a law prohibiting the display of a firearm in such a way as to cause alarm or fear. This is called "disturbing the peace". In other words, it is brandishing by another name.

Does this law apply to being on your own property? Yes, it does. It is perfectly legal to have a firearm on your property, but if you menace somebody with it, you can be in deep doo-doo.

From time to time, when the doorbell rings at night, I will answer it with a handgun in hand, but the hand will be behind my back. I am the nice polite one armed man in the neighborhood.

It is a bad idea to try and intimidate anybody with a firearm anywhere and most often illegal. If you need to pull it or point it, best do that when you are ready to shoot it. The notion that in Texas you can be an armed belligerent AH on your own property is false.

[TheDoctor]

He did say after sunset. While one should be mindful of their actions, the rules do change a bit after dark.

[mold maker]

Display,exhibit, show, brandish, are all just different words with the same meaning when this subject is involved. Having a concealed weapon when answering the door, in less than optimal circumstances, is insurance of a positive outcome. Not having one when needed can be both foolish and perminate.
The only time to "brandish" a gun is when you're lining up the sights in preparation to fire in self-defense. It only lasts for a second and you can always stand down if the threat reduces.
To display in the offensive is where the rub comes in. The element of surprise is lost and not using it immediately infers doubt in its use. If you don't intend to fire, keep it hidden.
This doesn't preclude wearing a handgun openly in a holster where legal. That's a whole other ball game, as long as its not drawn. The instant you handel it, it is brandishing and showing intent..

[DerekP Houston]

It is a bad idea to try and intimidate anybody with a firearm anywhere and most often illegal. If you need to pull it or point it, best do that when you are ready to shoot it. The notion that in Texas you can be an armed belligerent AH on your own property is false.


Correct and agreed. It is one of the reasons I don't personally open carry but I respect those that want the option.

[BrassMagnet]

bedbug - I think merely arming yourself would not reach the definition of "brandishing". Pointing the gun at the person might cross that line:

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.234e Brandishing firearm in public; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.Sec. 234e.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not willfully and knowingly brandish a firearm in public.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to either of the following:
(a) A peace officer lawfully performing his or her duties as a peace officer.
(b) A person lawfully acting in self-defense or defense of another under the self-defense act, 2006 PA 309, MCL 780.971 to 780.974.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

Some people will make the argument that in your own home and confronting a unknown subject, it is actually a good idea to announce that you are armed. That action puts the other individual on notice that you are prepared to defend yourself and removes all question that aggressive action will be met with force. The wisdom of that tactic is debatable.
In any event, merely displaying a firearm in your own home but not pointing it at someone; probably doesn't rise to the level of "Brandishing" a firearm.

Brandishing is the display. Lifting a shirt to show the butt of a concealed weapon is brandishing. Displaying the shotgun at all would be brandishing, except TX law allows armed defense of property and that alone likely exempted him from a charge of brandishing. The "visitor" was likely in violation of TX law.
In Colorado, trespass is when someone refuses to leave when ordered to leave. So in CO, unlike TX, you have no right to defend your property outside your home.

[victorfox]

While growing up I lived in a farm and we had all sorts of unexpected and unwanted visits. Once I was chasing the cattle home, I saw a bunch of nothing-to-do-there guys in the pasture. I yelled them to get out. They laughed and threw stones at me. They were some 50 or more yards away. One stone fell just in front of my feet and I thought that was enough. I ran home and grabbed my father's .32 (I was about 14) and yelled again: won't you get the f* out of here? They throwed stones again, I drew and aimed in the middle of them, shot, and started chasing them. They went into a panic and I stopped after some 100yds and they never appeared again.

Since then, I always carried when looking for cattle and always had a knife, machete or billhook with me. When aswering the gate of the property, i had the 32 in my pocket and a machete in my hands and had no problems. In brazil you still can carry and brandish inside your property (but not in the sidewalk, for example).But those old times things were easier.

I always argued with my father's careless approach to answering the gate, and when I was home and he went, I stayed inside the house with the rifle in my hands watching what was going on.

One day, many years ago, I was ouy and my father alone, he aswered the gate and the guys asked him some gasoline. While he went to get the gasoline and turned again he was held under gun point. Thanks to God, he managed to negotiate with the guys, and they kept him under gun point for about 6 hours. They stole almost everything we had, including his 32. Thankfully, I had cached my shotgun, rifle and ammo elsewhere and they couldn't find it. Needless to say was enraged, but aleviated they did nothing physical to the old man and I gave him a sermon "I told you so"... From that day on he got more cautious and we had no direct problems, only minor stealing while we were not looking... Had a car, tools, a spare tire and some minor stuff stolen from me, but never a robbery.

I don't usually answer the door if I don't expect a visit and if I do, I always have something with me.

[David2011]

One night not too long ago, around 9:45 pm I saw head and tail lights through the front door. It's one of those with beveled leaded glass and side lights. The lights were far brighter than if someone was just driving down the road. I picked up a revolver and went to the front door. I lifted a blind and saw a car in the circle drive and someone walking toward the front door. They immediately did an about face when and headed back to the car. Another person was in the driver's seat. I concealed the revolver and by the time I got the door unlocked and stepped onto the porch they were speeding out of the driveway. Their actions lead me to believe they were up to no good.

It's probably just as well we didn't meet face to face.

David

[NavyVet1959]

Display,exhibit, show, brandish, are all just different words with the same meaning when this subject is involved.

Maybe where you are located, but not in Texas. For example, it has been legal to open carry a rifle or shotgun in Texas even after the occupation forces after the War of Northern Aggression forced us to no longer allow open carry of handguns. You did not need to have the rifle / shotgun in a case or on a sling. You just weren't allowed to be waving the firearm around or pointing it at someone unless you were justified from a defense standpoint. Same applied to handguns on your own property. The mere display of a firearm on your own property is not illegal -- you need to display it in a threatening manner when such a display is not legally authorized.

[TXGunNut]

My point was, he didn't seem to understand or want to understand what I was telling him until he saw my shotgun beside my leg. I don't think he meant me any harm but I can assure you he was up to no good. I didn't point a weapon at him, I just made it clear that his continued presence was unwanted. There was no overt threat on my part, no need for one.
I have a good working knowledge of Texas laws as they apply to this situation, the concept of escalation of force and the LE response time to my semi-rural part of Texas. I'd rather not belabor those points. My situation is most likely different from yours so your response to a similar situation may vary, for good reason. Another point is, I have a plan for this situation and I hope you'll give it some thought as well.

[Lloyd Smale]

texas doesn't sound like a peaceful place to live:kidding: Sounds about a pleasant as down town Detroit!

[DerekP Houston]

texas doesn't sound like a peaceful place to live:kidding: Sounds about a pleasant as down town Detroit!

shrug we put up with a lot of guff but we take care of business in a hurry. I'd try michigan if it weren't for all them damn "seasons" yall have. And what on earth is a "heater'?!?!? :kidding:

All kidding aside, there is more lawlessness and criminal acts I've witnessed in my own neighborhood in the last 5 years than I ever saw growing up near Dallas. Pick your poison on what is to blame, I just roll with it and keep on trucking.

My grandfather has never moved from my fathers last childhood home over 34+ years that I can count. The neighborhood was originally all family oriented and friendly, then came the gang bangers. He put up reinforced bars on everything and double doors, and put on his grumpy old man face. He's always been left alone from that look through the window alone. It helps he never opens the door period...even for family members ;). If you don't know to use the side door or garage, he knows you don't belong there.

The neighborhood now has shifted back to friendly hispanic families who are improving the area and making it family safe again. Could be rental properties, could be owners, doesn't make a lick of difference to us. What we see is kids running safe and playing again, families maintaining lawns/trees, and actually fixing broken things on the house/cars instead of just adding another layer of duct tape. He lives in what is considered "near downtown" houston.

He is firmly in the anti-gun crowd, doesn't like em or have a use for them, but doesn't ever question what someone else does. His son had a collection that he liquidated after his passing (my 2 uncles passed, my dad is the only survivor), never felt a need to protect anything else since he lost granny. He has mentioned a passing appreciation for my chl to protect my family though, so I think he has just accepted and is ready to move on...which makes me quite sad.

[Plate plinker]

:goodpost::goodpost:
Exactly! What kind of fool knocks on a stranger's door looking for a friend? If I know someone well enough to drop by his house you can bet I have his phone number and address.
Reminds me of a guy that approached me from behind a wall at a lonely highway rest stop late one night. I turned to face him and he suddenly wanted to know what time it was. He was wearing a watch, I wasn't. I was wearing a pistol, however, and he got a real good look at the business end of it. I'm not afraid of the dark, I just don't like people who ask stupid questions in the dark. With my LE background I'm well aware that a question from a stranger in some situations isn't about the answer, it's a distraction technique.


Exactly!!

[victorfox]

Nah, you should come to Brazil... Here anything bigger than a .38 is outlawed since 1930s... See, no tactical evil assault weapons...:kidding::kidding:

Now serious, after the shooting in Dallas I hope there is no more gun control in Texas, which, it looks to me, there's still freedom... Here the so called "specialists" are all talking on tv about the "fire power and high caliber military war grade" weapons used in the shooting... (seems to me it was an sks?). Of course, the talking comes in good time for our govt (and probably yours), since there's a big movement to a new law, conceding carry permits and overcoming some restrictions... :(

Here we too have some "kill 'em all" leftist movements. All the time the commies talk about killing the burgeoise, the white people, the heterosexuals, the religious, who ever discords them...

[Lloyd Smale]

that cold and snow keeps a lot of lazy shiftless people away. Personaly I do better in the cold then I do when temps are in the 90s or even higher.
shrug we put up with a lot of guff but we take care of business in a hurry. I'd try michigan if it weren't for all them damn "seasons" yall have. And what on earth is a "heater'?!?!? :kidding:

All kidding aside, there is more lawlessness and criminal acts I've witnessed in my own neighborhood in the last 5 years than I ever saw growing up near Dallas. Pick your poison on what is to blame, I just roll with it and keep on trucking.

My grandfather has never moved from my fathers last childhood home over 34+ years that I can count. The neighborhood was originally all family oriented and friendly, then came the gang bangers. He put up reinforced bars on everything and double doors, and put on his grumpy old man face. He's always been left alone from that look through the window alone. It helps he never opens the door period...even for family members ;). If you don't know to use the side door or garage, he knows you don't belong there.

The neighborhood now has shifted back to friendly hispanic families who are improving the area and making it family safe again. Could be rental properties, could be owners, doesn't make a lick of difference to us. What we see is kids running safe and playing again, families maintaining lawns/trees, and actually fixing broken things on the house/cars instead of just adding another layer of duct tape. He lives in what is considered "near downtown" houston.

He is firmly in the anti-gun crowd, doesn't like em or have a use for them, but doesn't ever question what someone else does. His son had a collection that he liquidated after his passing (my 2 uncles passed, my dad is the only survivor), never felt a need to protect anything else since he lost granny. He has mentioned a passing appreciation for my chl to protect my family though, so I think he has just accepted and is ready to move on...which makes me quite sad.

[NavyVet1959]

that cold and snow keeps a lot of lazy shiftless people away.

So, how does that explain *Detroit*? :)

[DerekP Houston]

that cold and snow keeps a lot of lazy shiftless people away. Personaly I do better in the cold then I do when temps are in the 90s or even higher.

I dunno if I buy that, but I love cold weather myself. If I got snowed in for days at a time that's just a perfect excuse to stay inside! Id love to have seasons, mountains, lakes, etc around us. But, job industry being what it is I am thankful for my position here and the cost of living is just up my alley. I'd wager you can find like minded folks in most of these great states, Texas just happens to be the one I was born/brought to.

[Lloyd Smale]

If you think the weather up here even is close to the weather in Detroit your mistaken. Detroit is closer in weather to florida then it is the Upper Peninsula.
So, how does that explain *Detroit*? :)

[NavyVet1959]

If you think the weather up here even is close to the weather in Detroit your mistaken. Detroit is closer in weather to florida then it is the Upper Peninsula.

Last I heard, Detroit is cold and gets snow and is definitely full of "lazy siftless people".

[jcwit]

IIRC, I've seen snow 19 to 25 feet deep not far from where Lloyd lives, on the way to Copper Harbor!

Detroit never has anything like that.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup its rare that Detroit has more the a few inches on the ground. they might get a freak snow storm once in a while but then so does the south. average yearly snowfall for Detroit is 3 feet for the year and it rarely stays around more then a week without melting. Average snowfall in my home town is 15 feet and theres places within 60 miles from where I live that sit on lake superior just right that will easily get 1/2 again as much as we do. Little town called grand Marias about 30 miles from here that sits just right on the lake and its kind of comical. From the beginning of dec till about march they celebrate when they actually get a day it isn't snowing. Ive been in there when the bar owned buys a round at midnight because no snow fell that day. Might not get accumulation every day but you will at least see flakes falling durning the day. We trailer snowmobiles over there and ive road snowmobile on the Grand Marias plains in june wearing a t shirt. Grand Marias plains were famous for supplying the trees to rebuild Chicago after the big fire. Theres places like jcwitts example of copper harbor that get as much or even more then they do!

[NavyVet1959]

Well, in my neck of the woods, we probably didn't have 3 ft of snow even during the last Ice Age. 3 ft or 25 ft is the same to us -- it's *damn* cold. :)

[DerekP Houston]

Well, in my neck of the woods, we probably didn't have 3 ft of snow even during the last Ice Age. 3 ft or 25 ft is the same to us -- it's *damn* cold. :)

If I want to see snow I fly north, no sense importing any more work down here ;). Constant mowing and sweeping is enough for the yard, i don't want to add digging my car/driveway out every morning. And lets be fair...an inch of water shuts down the highways here.

[NavyVet1959]

If I want to see snow I fly north, no sense importing any more work down here ;). Constant mowing and sweeping is enough for the yard, i don't want to add digging my car/driveway out every morning. And lets be fair...an inch of water shuts down the highways here.

Yeah, considering how much rain we get, it's surprising that people forget how to drive in the rain. But, it's even more fun to watch them drive after an ice storm. Doesn't happen that often around here, but a bit more often in our northern suburbs (i.e. Dallas).

[DerekP Houston]

Yeah, considering how much rain we get, it's surprising that people forget how to drive in the rain. But, it's even more fun to watch them drive after an ice storm. Doesn't happen that often around here, but a bit more often in our northern suburbs (i.e. Dallas).

I'm of the opinion they don't know how to drive period...the rain/ice just demonstrates it easier. On a note with Dallas....they seriously need to reconsider the "no salt" and limited snow budget. I wrecked my truck 3 times in the same night ~5 years back now I guess. Weather was fine until we got near downtown on 45, if you know the area it is a big long bridge for 3-4 miles. After that, there was ice *everywhere* and the genius in charge decided to close every on ramp and off ramp in all directions. So.....there we are, stuck on the highway with no option but to keep on going or wait it out on the highway til it melted. Got where we were going eventually, but I could feel it when the truck started sliding....same dang driver side head light with just nail the concrete divider. Get out...push it straight...keep on going. Thank goodness my truck was a metal one, but I would've rather taken a front wheel drive car at that point.

[Lloyd Smale]

we had a large air force base right next to my home town (its decommissioned now) when I was younger we used to get a good laugh every year when the first winter storm hit. All the airmen from down south that had never really seen snow or at least had never driven in it got there initiation into winter driving. I used to borrow my dads 4x4 and run up and down the road pulling airmen out of the ditch for 20 bucks a crack and made good money doing it. I could make more in one day after a storm doing that then I made in a whole week in the woods. theres a test track at the old base that car manufactures use to test winter driving. I often said they should hold one nascar race a year there. Id be my mother would put a whipping on any of those "good old boys" on an icy track. We drive on icy roads AT LEAST 3 months of the year and that's a very conservative number. Heck I did my drivers training for my license when I was 15 on icy roads.

[NavyVet1959]

On a note with Dallas....they seriously need to reconsider the "no salt" and limited snow budget.

Considering all the rusted out cars that I've seen in areas where they did use salt, I would have to say that I'm glad we just use sand.

[DerekP Houston]

Considering all the rusted out cars that I've seen in areas where they did use salt, I would have to say that I'm glad we just use sand.

I suppose that would work, just a personal vent. For the 2 times a year we need it I can drive through a car wash and get it all rinsed off.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup Id have to admit we get the salt and the rust and its more like twice a day then 2 times a year!!! It sucks but beats the hell out of having to answer the door with a shotgun
Considering all the rusted out cars that I've seen in areas where they did use salt, I would have to say that I'm glad we just use sand.

[NavyVet1959]

yup Id have to admit we get the salt and the rust and its more like twice a day then 2 times a year!!! It sucks but beats the hell out of having to answer the door with a shotgun

Awh, we don't *have* to answer the door with a shotgun...

We have a lot of other guns to choose from...

:)

Seriously though... We just take our privacy a bit more seriously than you apparently do. If you are on my property and you didn't call ahead, you can expect to be greeted by someone with a firearm and informed that you are trespassing. If you call ahead, you will probably be greeted by someone with a frosty mug of beer instead. It pays to call ahead...

Besides, you never know when the government is going to try to manufacture an incident like they did in Waco and want you to be a star participant.

[Andy]

Everyone has a right to do what they want to on their own property, this is a free country and I won't judge anyone's behavior with strangers on their land.

A point from the other perspective though: 7 years ago my wife and I had just gotten married, we were driving around the country on our honeymoon and found ourselves near the area she grew up. I decided I would do a cool thing for her and take her back to see the property she grew up on. I knew this would be somewhat awkward if we met the people as we don't know them and they have no reason to trust us but I'm from a small town and thought, hey, let's give it a shot. It was a rural road in CA, found the property and the gate was open about 200 yards from the house so we parked at the gate and waited a bit then walked in and knocked on the door to say hi. Two cars and an RV in the driveway but no one would answer the door.

We left glad we had tried but very disappointed that we couldn't meet whoever lives there and let them know how her parents built the house and how far away we had driven from.

My only point is that sometimes these situations happen for a good reason, we should keep our guard up of course but always try to be civil first and have the gun out only when civility fails, you never know who you're driving away. Don't let the bad apples in society ruin it for everyone, otherwise the evil people win.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess I know that where I live isn't the norm in this country. I don't recall ever hearing about a house break in in our town or a car being stole (other then by a family member). Never heard of a shooting other then a domestic dispute or a drunken boyfriend. My thoughts are I'm not going outside wearing a chemical suit because a terrorist might detonate a bomb, I'm not following my grandkids around or making them stay in the yard when the worse thing that can happen is some neighbor giving them a sugar cookie and I'm not answering the door armed.

I guess if things change and they might someday where it seems to be justified I would but its down right silly for me to do it today. Id have everyone in a 100 mile radius putting me on a nut case list. Ive got ALOT of guns and ammo here. Many people including the local police who some of are friends of mine know it. If I started answering the door with a gun it would do nothing but draw unwanted attention to me.

Heck my old dog knew how to slide open the neighbors patio door and go inside and did it often and would lay in there living room and wait till they got up so he could share breakfast. I guess its why I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Yes we have snow and cold but we have very little crime and people still say good morning and mean it! If my neighbor needs a cup of sugar and I'm not home they walk in and get it. Ive come home to notes in my loading room that said "my son showed up and wanted to go shooting so I grabbed a couple hundred 9mm shells" I do the same at any of my neighbors houses. I doubt theres a vehicle on my road that doesn't have the keys in it all night. GODS country my friends.

If you live somewhere that isn't like this I feel for you. Funny thing is in another post some of you will claim you live in the greatest place in the country. I guess we just have a different view of what makes a great place to live or raise kids. I understand that some have no choice and have to live somewhere because of a job. But even in your state id bet theres places you could retire that you don't have to fear grandma down the street is invading the little privacy you have. Live in a place where if theres a raccoon in your garbage and you shoot them the swat team wont show up shortly. When I shoot in my back yard many times a neighbor will pop over to see what kind of new gun I have. I guess its why that after 8 years in the military and most of it down south I came back here to live. Gods country my friends. Come up and see it for yourself. We still have LOTS of room for good people and we don't care if your from the north or south are black or white( ever notice there wasn't a single black person in mayberry nc[smilie=l:) , are catholic or protestant. Were not still fighting wars that were over more then a 100 years ago and kids can still head to the woods with there bb guns without some yuppie neighbor calling the police. Wait a minute I thought mayberry was in NC!! :bigsmyl2: I guess I should be thankful that places like this still exist and I get to live in one of them. Ever consider that if you maybe start trusting people a bit more it might be contagious! I know if I lived next to someone that answered the door with a shotgun I might be a lot more apt to do the same in case that individual came knocking on my door. Like I said come on up and see. If you show up and I'm not home go on in and make yourself conforable. theres usually a beer in the fridge.

[DerekP Houston]

I certainly won't be claiming houston is perfect, but it is home for now and where my career is at. If we open a new office I'm on the list as "willing to relocate"

2 more officer involved fatalities on the south side in 2 days, I'm of the point now better safe than sorry.

Where my parents live sounds just like that lloyd, up near dallas. Doors rarely locked and no issues, but I can't afford that neighborhood yet, still working my way up.

[jcwit]

Everyone has a right to do what they want to on their own property, this is a free country and I won't judge anyone's behavior with strangers on their land.

A point from the other perspective though: 7 years ago my wife and I had just gotten married, we were driving around the country on our honeymoon and found ourselves near the area she grew up. I decided I would do a cool thing for her and take her back to see the property she grew up on. I knew this would be somewhat awkward if we met the people as we don't know them and they have no reason to trust us but I'm from a small town and thought, hey, let's give it a shot. It was a rural road in CA, found the property and the gate was open about 200 yards from the house so we parked at the gate and waited a bit then walked in and knocked on the door to say hi. Two cars and an RV in the driveway but no one would answer the door.

We left glad we had tried but very disappointed that we couldn't meet whoever lives there and let them know how her parents built the house and how far away we had driven from.

My only point is that sometimes these situations happen for a good reason, we should keep our guard up of course but always try to be civil first and have the gun out only when civility fails, you never know who you're driving away. Don't let the bad apples in society ruin it for everyone, otherwise the evil people win.

I did much the same back in the day shortly after my wife & I were married, only in my case it was to show her where my folks used to take me when visiting my Aunt & Uncle in No. Michigan just outside Petoskey to be exact.

We entered the gate, me knowing that years ago the property had been sold to others. When getting near the house an older gentleman cam out, greeted us, I told him who I was and we were welcomed as old long lost friends. Wife put on the coffee, we all had a short snack, we signed his guest book and spent a wonderful afternoon, took us all over the property/farm renewing long lost memories from my childhood. Bty he & his wife were full blooded Indian's, great folks.

Years later I happened to be in the area again & stopped in just to say Hi and see how they were doing. They had both passed away but their boy lived their and remember us from years past. He also welcomed us with open arms, had married and had 3 young ones running around.

Yes Lloyd, God's country for sure, even starts in the upper part of the LP

[NavyVet1959]

If you live somewhere that isn't like this I feel for you. Funny thing is in another post some of you will claim you live in the greatest place in the country. I guess we just have a different view of what makes a great place to live or raise kids. I understand that some have no choice and have to live somewhere because of a job. But even in your state id bet theres places you could retire that you don't have to fear grandma down the street is invading the little privacy you have. Live in a place where if theres a raccoon in your garbage and you shoot them the swat team wont show up shortly. When I shoot in my back yard many times a neighbor will pop over to see what kind of new gun I have. I guess its why that after 8 years in the military and most of it down south I came back here to live. Gods country my friends. Come up and see it for yourself. We still have LOTS of room for good people and we don't care if your from the north or south are black or white( ever notice there wasn't a single black person in mayberry nc[smilie=l:) , are catholic or protestant. Were not still fighting wars that were over more then a 100 years ago and kids can still head to the woods with there bb guns without some yuppie neighbor calling the police. Wait a minute I thought mayberry was in NC!! :bigsmyl2: I guess I should be thankful that places like this still exist and I get to live in one of them. Ever consider that if you maybe start trusting people a bit more it might be contagious! I know if I lived next to someone that answered the door with a shotgun I might be a lot more apt to do the same in case that individual came knocking on my door. Like I said come on up and see. If you show up and I'm not home go on in and make yourself conforable. theres usually a beer in the fridge.

The problem is that once you find a place like that around here, some damn developer builds a road there and ... well ... there goes the neighborhood.

[Lloyd Smale]

I hope you find your way there derek. Just don't loose sight of the fact that it does still exist.
I certainly won't be claiming houston is perfect, but it is home for now and where my career is at. If we open a new office I'm on the list as "willing to relocate"

2 more officer involved fatalities on the south side in 2 days, I'm of the point now better safe than sorry.

Where my parents live sounds just like that lloyd, up near dallas. Doors rarely locked and no issues, but I can't afford that neighborhood yet, still working my way up.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup the liberals are moving in here too. As nice as it is here it was much nicer 10 years ago. I guess everyone wants to find a peaceful place like this. Sad thing is the city liberals retire and come up here and bring there agendas with them and instead of coming here and enjoying the way of life that's been here forever want to add there anti gun, don't cut the trees, drive an electric prius **** and think we should all change to fit there ideas. Were not immune to that **** here either. But I guess at least there not breaking into my house or steeling my truck. There to busy building golf courses and polishing there beamers.
The problem is that once you find a place like that around here, some damn developer builds a road there and ... well ... there goes the neighborhood.

[NavyVet1959]

Yup the liberals are moving in here too. As nice as it is here it was much nicer 10 years ago. I guess everyone wants to find a peaceful place like this. Sad thing is the city liberals retire and come up here and bring there agendas with them and instead of coming here and enjoying the way of life that's been here forever want to add there anti gun, don't cut the trees, drive an electric prius **** and think we should all change to fit there ideas. Were not immune to that **** here either. But I guess at least there not breaking into my house or steeling my truck. There to busy building golf courses and polishing there beamers.

Around here, we call that type of people "Damn Yankees". The modifier is because they come here and don't go back. They get down here, bring their liberal ways, and the next thing you know, they're pushing for having a ice hockey team in a place that didn't even have ice during the last Ice Age. There goes the neighborhood...

[DerekP Houston]

I hope you find your way there derek. Just don't loose sight of the fact that it does still exist.

Oh I will, I just don't buy in to the millenial logic that I have to get there immediately. We have a starter house for now, once it is paid off we will roll it into somewhere with better school districts or nicer house if my wife wants. I refuse to go back in to debt for making stupid choices.

I stopped calling them yankees.....I guess I'm a transplant too since I was born in Canada and lived in England for awhile. Both my parents were Texans though so I like to think we got the same experience. We were called "yanks" the whole time we lived in England, though for some it was a term of endearment and others meant as an insult. Jokes on them now I guess.

"yall aint from around here now are ya?"

[dtknowles]

Oh I will, I just don't buy in to the millenial logic that I have to get there immediately. We have a starter house for now, once it is paid off we will roll it into somewhere with better school districts or nicer house if my wife wants. I refuse to go back in to debt for making stupid choices.

I stopped calling them yankees.....I guess I'm a transplant too since I was born in Canada and lived in England for awhile. Both my parents were Texans though so I like to think we got the same experience. We were called "yanks" the whole time we lived in England, though for some it was a term of endearment and others meant as an insult. Jokes on them now I guess.

"yall aint from around here now are ya?"

I have been "from away" my whole life. Turned 5 move from Mass to Maine (city to country) everyone still remember I was from away when I graduated High School (small town, everyone knows everyone's business) Turned 18 moved to Florida, 25 moved to Calif. 30 back to Florida 40 moved to Louisiana. I have seen life from a lot of American windows, if you look carefully you can see the good and the bad and don't let them tell you that there isn't both everywhere.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

I find at amusing when people move anywhere and don't want to change their ways. This includes people from Texas moving to the North. Where have I run across this? When they want to charge you to hunt on their land. Paying to hunt on someone's property is not a common practice here. So change your ways or go home. Seem ridiculous? That's because it was meant to be.

[DerekP Houston]

I find at amusing when people move anywhere and don't want to change their ways. This includes people from Texas moving to the North. Where have I run across this? When they want to charge you to hunt on their land. Paying to hunt on someone's property is not a common practice here. So change your ways or go home. Seem ridiculous? That's because it was meant to be.

ugh the leases and what not are ridiculous here. I would love to hunt up north or in a logical area, but private land being what it is here, public hunting spots are overcrowded and tough to find. A member made a kind offer for my to drive up to Nebraska and experience what hunting is *really* like. Hunt and stalk, following game trails, and miles and miles of unadulterated wilderness. To each their own, but sitting in a blind 150 yards away from a baited trap just wasn't what I thought hunting would be. I'd rather go home with nothing than do that again.

[dtknowles]

I find at amusing when people move anywhere and don't want to change their ways. This includes people from Texas moving to the North. Where have I run across this? When they want to charge you to hunt on their land. Paying to hunt on someone's property is not a common practice here. So change your ways or go home. Seem ridiculous? That's because it was meant to be.

I think I know what you are saying but let me get clarification. Someone from Texas (where hunting leases are normal) moves to Penn and buys land where leases are not normal, he should not charge people to hunt on his land? Nobody would fuss if he posted his land no hunting and no trespassing but they would be mad if when they asked permission he want to charge them?

I am not saying that this is wrong but it seems nonsense. I can see some beef, my brother used to hunt his neighbors land (with permission) but the neighbor sold the land and the new owner will not give permission. Up country the previously unposted land has been bought up by a rich liberal and is now posted. There are now some "land locked" properties because rights of way and easements were not established and private roads that were open to the public are now closed. Can you imagine owning land that you can't get to because the surrounding landowners have posted their land and closed their roads. As you can imagine some gates have been broken and some trespassing has gone on with potential dangerous conflicts.

Years ago we used to go fishing in Bodfish Valley, old man Drew wanted a buck to go past his cabin, we called it Drew Valley back then. Actually he might settle for a beer or something and not sure what he would do if you did not give him something. He did have a shotgun on the cabin porch. There was no easy way in or out that did not go by his cabin. I think for a while he had a gate across the road.

Things change over time and it is not always those from away that change them but mostly they get blamed.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

It was simply an example of how people move into an area and have different values. We have a few members who say all Yankees should go back home. It can work both ways. It's about the person and their values, not where they are originally from.

A lot of land is not posted. It's always a point of contention when someone buys it and posts it. This is their right but don't expect a warm friendly welcome from the neighbors. Paid leases don't exist here. It's just the way it is.

[NavyVet1959]

What irritates me is the farmers who complain about the wild hogs destroying their land and whine that the government should do something about it, but when you offer to help them remove the pests, they want to charge you for helping them. Sure, it's their land and if they want to charge for the use of it, that's their right, but quit whining about it.

[Lloyd Smale]

Might want to look around you. Theres a whole slew of southern liberals. We have to put up with golf courses that came from the south. I KNOW id rather watch or play hockey then golf!!!!!!!!!!!!
Around here, we call that type of people "Damn Yankees". The modifier is because they come here and don't go back. They get down here, bring their liberal ways, and the next thing you know, they're pushing for having a ice hockey team in a place that didn't even have ice during the last Ice Age. There goes the neighborhood...

[Battis]

the next thing you know, they're pushing for having a ice hockey team in a place that didn't even have ice during the last Ice Age. There goes the neighborhood...
That's called Capitalism, and either it works or it doesn't. I don't think there were too many football fields or baseball diamonds during the last Ice Age, either.
If the government stays out of it, and it works, then it was meant to be, until the government gets involved.

[dragon813gt]

What irritates me is the farmers who complain about the wild hogs destroying their land and whine that the government should do something about it, but when you offer to help them remove the pests, they want to charge you for helping them. Sure, it's their land and if they want to charge for the use of it, that's their right, but quit whining about it.

Damage here is done by deer, not hogs. Most farmers just want them gone so they hand out the red tags freely. I've found an easy way to the front of the line. Offer to help on the farm. I feel it's only fair that I offer since it's their land. Yes, this is a form of payment. But one day or work for hunting rights compared to thousands of dollars is more my speed :)

[DerekP Houston]

Damage here is done by deer, not hogs. Most farmers just want them gone so they hand out the red tags freely. I've found an easy way to the front of the line. Offer to help on the farm. I feel it's only fair that I offer since it's their land. Yes, this is a form of payment. But one day or work for hunting rights compared to thousands of dollars is more my speed :)

Heh I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Hard work shows you are also willing to take care of the land and not abuse it.

[mold maker]

I grew up next to the edge of civilization, and after chores in the Summer, I left home with 2 penny packs of BBs and my trusty Daisy pump. About 10:30 I would pass the widows farm house and carry in a couple arm loads of wood. She always had a piece of pie or cake, as my reward. It usually took me til lunch to catch a couple suckers or catfish to eat and till 5:00 to get back home.
All this to say it's now almost 3 miles to the edge of town where WalMart placed a super store and another half mile to the next wooded or farm land. Just beyond there is a solar farm, and Lord only knows what's next.
They didn't take the country out of me, but they sure moved the country, and I don't appreciate it one bit.
Used to go to town on Sat and knew everybody I saw, their kin, and if there was sickness or problems. Now I don't recognize a soul and can't speak the language of many. The main intersection had 3 Service Stations and there were 2 more on main street. Now there are none. All four groceries and the 2 sporting goods stores are gone. The hardware and 2 of the groceries are now a pawn/antique shops. Both the dry goods are gone.
If they had redone the store fronts I would feel totally lost in my own hometown.

[TXGunNut]

Unwelcome visitor during my Sunday afternoon nap. It was time to move the laundry anyway so I eventually got up. Didn't bother to answer the door. Didn't want to offend nobody. ;-)

[NavyVet1959]

That's called Capitalism, and either it works or it doesn't. I don't think there were too many football fields or baseball diamonds during the last Ice Age, either.
If the government stays out of it, and it works, then it was meant to be, until the government gets involved.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/history-baseball-baseball_players-batting_orders-batters-caveman-shrn3041_low.jpg

[OnHoPr]

I am just going to give a general statement in saying that there are not as many real Americans in America as there were 150 years ago. This encompasses both parties as well as skin color.


@ dtknowles, I read your occupation in a thread, but can not remember what it was. I am not as well read as many here, and you seem like you are well read. I have a ponderance for your Signature Line statements. Since the industrial revolution along with/in America and general northern european colonized countries for the last few centuries, Why has the pen always moved to where the sword is made? To make monies, for the swords power, to control, to extort for social causes, ehmm?? Wasn't ole Woodrow Wilson very reluctant to go to WWI? In essence, was it against our constitutional principles? Now look, we have military in 130 countries. How did they get there, from the pen from certain countries or factions coming to America to get into positions to accomplish these duties even if it took a century or more to do it. I am not sure about this terminology, but isn't that slightly on the oxymoron side if you get my gist. Doesn't the pen have the knowledge to make the sword?

[dtknowles]

I am just going to give a general statement in saying that there are not as many real Americans in America as there were 150 years ago. This encompasses both parties as well as skin color.


@ dtknowles, I read your occupation in a thread, but can not remember what it was. I am not as well read as many here, and you seem like you are well read. I have a ponderance for your Signature Line statements. Since the industrial revolution along with/in America and general northern european colonized countries for the last few centuries, Why has the pen always moved to where the sword is made? To make monies, for the swords power, to control, to extort for social causes, ehmm?? Wasn't ole Woodrow Wilson very reluctant to go to WWI? In essence, was it against our constitutional principles? Now look, we have military in 130 countries. How did they get there, from the pen from certain countries or factions coming to America to get into positions to accomplish these duties even if it took a century or more to do it. I am not sure about this terminology, but isn't that slightly on the oxymoron side if you get my gist. Doesn't the pen have the knowledge to make the sword?

One man with a pen can change the world more than one man with a sword. If you take up a cause you can raise an army of swords using a single pen. I man who only has a pen can't do much to protect himself from a man with a sword. I made that signature line because of the small truth it reveals and the maturation of the phrase and inclusion in modern music.

About you statement "I am just going to give a general statement in saying that there are not as many real Americans in America as there were 150 years ago. This encompasses both parties as well as skin color." I understand what you are trying to say but factually your statement is false. The population has grown and there are certainly more real Americans now than there were 150 years ago but they might be a small percentage of the population.

You care to define what you think is a real American? I think that is a hard one and many people will have a different slant on that.

About this "Doesn't the pen have the knowledge to make the sword?" Actually all the pen can do is spread information it does not create knowledge. It takes a blacksmith to make a sword and it takes an artist to make a really good one and they might never have a pen!

I am a rocket scientist, I have lead teams of researchers doing analysis and testing for Rocket Components and Propulsion system improvement concepts. I have built some of the parts we test, I have run some of the tests and I have written some of the reports. I don't do it all myself and I am not the best worker I have ever had.

The pen is mightier than the sword but we still need swords.

Regarding "Wasn't ole Woodrow Wilson very reluctant to go to WWI? In essence, was it against our constitutional principles? Now look, we have military in 130 countries." The people were reluctant to get involved in either World War but many in government and industry were anxious to get involved some for good reasons and some for greed. We are victims of our post WWII success, because of the huge advantage we had at the end of WWII we spread our power around the World and to back out was to show too much weakness. We are now places we should have left to take care of themselves. It had little to do with the Pen and more likely from Fear of Other Swords.

Tim

[Boyscout]

If he is a criminal, he knows where to find a gun now. I prefer to keep them guessing. Related question: If you announce to the world that you are carrying or have a gun in your car, is it still legally concealed or secure?