Choosing best all around .45 Colt bullet?

[Brandi]

To preface this, my sis and I just started reloading and are using the newest version of Lee's loading manual. We do plan to cast but that will have to wait until we buy all the reloading stuff we need. Currently we are set up for .45 Colt and 9mm but it's .45 Colt that I need advice on at the moment. We have two Ruger New Vaquero Bisley's, one large frame Vaquero in .45 Colt and one large frame Blackhawk .45 Colt/.45acp. We also have two Henry Big Boy rifles in .45 Colt.

I'm trying to decide on a bullet that will be good for everything. I'm pretty much set on hard cast and a Keith style or similar bullet design. At the moment we have been loading 255 grain Hornady RNFP hard cast .454" over 6.4 grains of Universal (the manual didn't have info for a 255 grain so we used the minimum limit load for a 250 grain bullet). The accuracy wasn't very good so I'm thinking we should switch to .452" diameter bullets regardless of style.

Universal is the only powder we have at the moment and money is too tight to buy different powders with all the dies and stuff we still need to buy. Since we can't cast yet, is there a factory hard cast bullet out there that would be a good choice for all our .45 Colt guns, sticking with Universal powder for now? I'm thinking a 255 grain Keith style hard cast but I don't know if that's the best choice and, if it is, which brand to choose.

[Outpost75]

Before settling on a Keith type SWC for dual use in rifle and revolver, confirm that your rifle will actually feed the Keith. Many levers will not.

If you plan to shoot common ammunition in both rifle and revolver, there is no need for "hard" cast in the .45 Colt with standard loads. I use 1:40 tin-lead alloy in my .45 Colts and in .44-40 for full charge loads up to 1000 fps in revolvers and 1300 fps in rifles. I use smokeless loads which approximate black powder velocity and bullets cast from Accurate molds, of traditional shape similar to the original bullets.

171219

The 45-259EB is adapted from John Kort's proven design for the .44-40, simply increasing diameters and adding a bevel base to get the weight where I wanted it. It is my favorite for the .45 Colt, with 7 grains of Bullseye, which gives 880 fps in my Colt New Service M1909 with 5-1/2" barrel and 1050 f.p.s. from a 20" carbine.

With Hodgdon Universal a charge of 8-9 grains is fairly standard in the .45 Colt with a 250-260-grain bullet and will provide better ballistic uniformity than the light charge you are trying, given the amount of free airspace in the .45 Colt case, which often causes problems for people attempting light "cowboy" loads, unless they use faster-burning, more easily ignited powders like Bullseye, Red Dot or Trail Boss.

[hp246]

I'm using a Lee 230 grn .452 Truncated cone in all my 45 Colt and 45 ACP. I have two Uberti 1973 SAA, two Ruger New Vaqueros, a Remington 1911, a Rock Island 1911, Uberti 73 Rifle and Uberti 66 carbine. The bullet works great in all of them for CAS and Wild Bunch. I don't know what type of accuracy you are looking for, but no problems with it out to 40 or 50 yards. I am shooting pretty light loads. 5.5 grns of Trailboss in the 45 Colt loads. The TC bullet is great in the rifle and carbine, and the TC or flat point bullets are required in out local matches.

[DougGuy]

Hey Brandi and welcome to the castboolits forum! Did you come over from the Ruger forum?

There is probably more load data for the .45 Colt than any other handgun cartridge ever made I think.

You can sorta go by boolit weight what powder to choose, the lighter the boolits, the faster the powder so 225gr to 255gr can use Bullseye, Unique, 231, 700x, HS6, Herco, Tite Group, the list goes on and on.

As boolit weight creeps up, burn rate needs to slow down. For 75% ~ 90% of max loads in the Ruger Only (30,000 psi) range, 2400, LilGun, 4227, and other powders can be used but Unique and fast powder won't work too good past about 270gr of boolit weight.

For magnum level loads and heavy boolits, 300gr ~ 340gr look to H110, W296, 2400, Lilgun, AA#9. Be warned not to download H110/W296 below published starting weights, See the comment above for less than magnum level loads.

Boolits.. Personally I got away from the Keith style and now exclusively shoot the RF style with a wide flat meplat and a smooth ogive on the sides because when this boolit hits the forcing cone it is a smoother transition being the sides of the boolit and the forcing cone are nearly parallel. The Keith boolit can hit the forcing cone and half the front of the boolit can be wiped off by the time the boolit exits the cylinder and it fully in the barrel.

If you plan to hunt, softer alloys and soft lube REALLY work good in Ruger rifling in the big bores. A mix of 50/50+2% (50% clip on wheel weights a.k.a. COWW or WW + 50% pure soft lead, + 2% tin) works great for hunting, good expansion, full penetration in even the largest game in North America, and the boolits stay together quite well. No hollowpoints needed, nor are they recommended.

There are more than just this way to skin the proverbial cat, this is just how *I* like to do it.

Also, I don't know that there is one single "best all around" boolit for this caliber. If I had to pick one that would work in most any firearm and take most any game, it would have to be the trusted old Lyman 454190, a round nosed design with a small meplat to work good in leverguns. Oddly enough, this boolit would be the closest that we have to a modern day equivalent to the original 1873 .45 Colt bullet. Looks like Sam Colt had it right from the git go!

[Outpost75]

Be aware that #454190 does not have a crimp groove, and you must roll crimp over the ogive of the bullet, which may not be adequate to maintain bullet position against compression of the tubular magazine spring, when loading smokeless powder, in which there is no base support for the bullet, as occurs with a compressed charge of black powder.

The Accurate 45-259EB shown in my post above, has a crimp groove, and adequate lube capacity to prevent foulout with Goex powder. I have also found it works very well with full charge loads in smokeless and its larger meplat performs well on game.

Accurate has a several other traditional designs for the .45 Colt which work well in rifles or revolvers, including both plainbase and bevel-based adaptations of #454190 having a crimp groove, which are shown below.

171220171223171221171222

[C. Latch]

If I had to stick to one .45 Colt bullet, excluding game larger or toothier than elk, I'd choose the Mihec 454640 design.

No idea if any commercial caster makes it, but I bet someone makes something very similar.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?207074-MiHec-454640-brass-two-or-four-cavity-cramer-hollow-point-mold

[DougGuy]

Be aware that #454190 does not have a crimp groove.

The Accurate 45-259EB has a crimp groove, and adequate lube capacity to prevent foulout with Goex powder. I have also found this design work well with smokeless and its larger meplat performs well on game. Accurate has a multitude of good designs for the .45 Colt including adaptations of #454190 having a crimp groove added.

You are correct, forgot all about that BECAUSE the 454190 that I have here, has a crimp groove! got them from a member that obviously has an "improved" mold.

[lightload]

The Hornady bullet cited is swaged and not cast. It's very soft. Guys, will casting machine's 225 grain flat point work ok in the .45 Colt? I think I see a crimp groove and the shape should feed in the Henry. It's on this forum in the Swapping and Selling section. Price is right too. If so, I say get it in .453 diameter.

[dubber123]

With adequate case neck tension, I have not had any issues with crimping the 452190 at the top edge of the lube groove, they don't pull when fired with above standard loads in a revolver, and would prevent set back into the case when used in lever guns. I don't like the looks of the loaded ammo when crimped over the ogive, and have always seated to the lube groove.

[35 Whelen]

That's a pretty easy question: Either the Lyman 454424 or RCBS 45-255-SWC. I have both and for whatever reason bullets from the the RCBS shoot much for accurately than those from the Lyman mould.

35W

[Bigslug]

The original Keith was the 255 grain Ideal/Lyman 452424. There's good copies of it out there by NOE and others that are probably closer to the original spec than Lyman's current offering of the same part number

The 270 grain RCBS S.A.A. bullet is, as best I can tell, a stretched version of the 452424, and it is without doubt, a wicked number. The RCBS molds are sweet, but only 2-cavity. Again, very good clones out there from several sources.

The 452423 was Elmer Keith's .45 Auto Rim bullet. 238 grains according to the blueprints, but about 8-10 grains heavier in the versions I have tried. It is not a long range bullet, but it is a knock-the-stuffing-out-of-things bullet with it's .34 caliber meplat. I'm waiting on a new Redhawk and will probably use this as a higher velocity, lower recoil option to the RCBS bullet as a means of black bear/mountain lion defense when deer hunting. With the higher speeds a .45C revolver can generate, it should be potent medicine for things inside the "just shoot it with the .30-06" envelope.

But really, round nose flat points are a better way to go - better for mechanical-feeding guns like your lever; more weight in the nose leaving room for powder in your case; and (some would argue) more accurate due to the gentle taper to full diameter aligning more precisely in the rifling. The SWC's make a cleaner hole in paper if you're after Bullseye match points, but that seems to be their only real edge. I went through my Keith phase out of respect for his efforts, and continue to use them because, hey, I've got the molds, but I tend to think the state of the art has passed him by.

[Lloyd Smale]

heavier has allways done better in all my 45s. I stuggled for years with 250-255s. Yes I found loads that shot well but spent a lot of money on powder and primers doing it. If I was new to this and wanted a good 45 bullet id look at something like a 280lfn from lbt. My preference would be for a gas checked version but many here don't like paying for the bit better accuracy they bring. A bullet like that will outshoot a 255 at a 1000 fps and outshoot it at 1300. Penetrate better and fly better at long range if you like busting rocks way out there like I do.

[35 Whelen]

Although it's my favorite. 45 bullet, I deliberately left the RCBS 45-270SAA mould off the list because at an actual cast weight of 280-285 grs., it's too heavy for an all-around bullet in my opinion.
Last deer season I actually used this bullet in a hollowpoint version on a javelina and a whitetail buck. The platform was a 5.5" Uberti Bisley, velocity at or a little above 1000 fps, range just shy of 50 yds. in both cases and both animals promptly expired.
Alot of people like the WFN's but I just can't see any real advantage. IMHO they break all the rules for long range accuracy with all the weight out in front of the bearing surface and in order to equal the penetration of a Keith SWC the weight of the bullet must be increased to overcome the larger frontal area of the bullet. In other words, there are no free lunches.

35W

[Char-Gar]

Choose your bullet to function in the rifle, and then use the same one in the revolver. The rifle will be your problem child.

[Texantothecore]

The .45 seems to work well as a softer bullet. When you start to cast use pure lead or maybe 2% tin.

You might also try .454 caliper round ball. It works. Also a lot cheaper than bullets and normally an off the shelf item at Bass Pro and other big gunstores.

[Texantothecore]

Round nose flat point seems to be the choice for many shooters. One way to find out what works is to look at the large mold making operations and see which bullets have six cavity molds in their nomal product line. Those bullets perform well and the molds sell consistantly.

[Outpost75]

Choose your bullet to function in the rifle, and then use the same one in the revolver. The rifle will be your problem child.


^^^^^^^^^^^THERE is a man who knows of what he speaks!

[KYCaster]

Lots of conflicting information in the answers here. It can be confusing, but here are a few basics you need to be aware of.


To preface this, my sis and I just started reloading and are using the newest version of Lee's loading manual. We do plan to cast but that will have to wait until we buy all the reloading stuff we need. Currently we are set up for .45 Colt and 9mm but it's .45 Colt that I need advice on at the moment. We have two Ruger New Vaquero Bisley's, one large frame Vaquero in .45 Colt and one large frame Blackhawk .45 Colt/.45acp. We also have two Henry Big Boy rifles in .45 Colt.

I'm trying to decide on a bullet that will be good for everything. I'm pretty much set on hard cast and a Keith style or similar bullet design. At the moment we have been loading 255 grain Hornady RNFP hard cast .454" over 6.4 grains of Universal (the manual didn't have info for a 255 grain so we used the minimum limit load for a 250 grain bullet). The accuracy wasn't very good so I'm thinking we should switch to .452" diameter bullets regardless of style.

1) Lee does not develop any reloading data. They copy data from other sources and publish it in their own manual without citing the source. That shouldn't be a problem, but there have been some notable mistakes in transcribing data. I'd rather get data from the bullet and powder manufacturers who actually do the load development.

2) Hornady does not offer cast bullets. All their lead bullets are swaged from very soft lead.

3) .454 diameter bullets are intended for antique guns...1st and 2nd generation Colt's and older clones. I think Uberti was the last to change sometime in the mid '80s. All Rugers and modern Henry rifles have .451 barrels so .452 dia. is the place to start.

4) Some lever action rifles don't play well with SWC bullets. You're more likely to have instant success with the RNFP profile. Either one will work in the revolvers. Any commercial caster who uses Magma casting machines (most of them) should offer a .452-255-RNFP.....pick one. Hi-tek brand bullet coating has become very popular with the commercial casters and it's a bit more forgiving than wax lubes...it should make your load work up a bit easier.

Universal is the only powder we have at the moment and money is too tight to buy different powders with all the dies and stuff we still need to buy. Since we can't cast yet, is there a factory hard cast bullet out there that would be a good choice for all our .45 Colt guns, sticking with Universal powder for now? I'm thinking a 255 grain Keith style hard cast but I don't know if that's the best choice and, if it is, which brand to choose.

Universal is an excellent choice for 45 Colt. Go to the Hodgdon web site, get into the load data center. Their new format sux, but the info is there if you take the time to find it. Choose "pistol"....cartridge = "45 Colt"... bullet weight = "select all".... manufacturer = "Hodgdon".... powder = "Universal".

Good luck. I hope it works well for you.


Jerry

[ReloaderFred]

For shooting paper and steel, I've settled on the 200 gr. RNFP bullet for almost all my .45 Colt firearms, both handguns and rifles. It's an accurate bullet and I get more bullets per pound of alloy. I also use it for a lot of my .45 acp loading, since it functions fine in the 1911's, Witnesses and XD's, as well as the Ruger convertibles.

I size mine .452" for everything and I've yet to find any leading.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Brandi]

Wow, thanks for all the great information, I appreciate the help very much. As for the bullet we are currently using I incorrectly called it a "hard cast" bullet, I'm still learning the different lingo for everything. It is a swaged bullet and I don't know the actual hardness but feels pretty darn hard to me. It takes quite a bit of pressure to even make a mark on it and far harder than any of the other lead bullets I have on hand. We have a friend locally that is retired and has reloaded for several decades that has been helping us and he said they were definitely hard. I dunno, maybe I'm just not experienced enough yet to know how hard a bullet has to be to be considered "hard".

I wouldn't be using this for hunting deer so I don't need a soft bullet or hollow points. If any of these guns are used for shooting at animals it'll be for hog hunting, hog defense, black bear defense...that kind of stuff, which is why I prefer a hard bullet. Mostly they will be used for inanimate targets but I want something that's good for both. I may load XTP's at some point but not in my .45 Colts, with those I want to stay strictly with solid lead (plus any additives of course). I'm in the heavier is better camp when it comes to .45 Colt so I'm ok with something heavier than the 255 grain but not lighter. My sis and I prefer a load with some "power". We both own and shoot magnum revolvers so we plan to settle on a load that is warm enough to be fun but not so hot to be painful. I'm not interested in loading any "Ruger Only" stuff for the large frame guns until we are more experienced reloaders. I think "warm" loads safe for the New Vaquero's is where we will settle until then.

How do the round nose flat point bullets compare with semi wadcutters when used on game animals? Especially "tough" animals that require better penetration than expansion? Also, is there a major point of impact difference between the two bullet designs all other things being equal? Do longer bullets fly better? It would seem but then does it even matter that much within 100 yards? I can't see well enough to shoot open sights past that distance and I'm not putting optics on my lever guns so if something needs shootin' past the 100 yard mark I'll break out a scoped rifle.

Oh, on top of the less then stellar accuracy we got out of our first batch there was a little bit of tan colored powder flakes left in the cases after we unloaded the revolvers. What is the reason for the powder being tan instead of black? What causes that powder from not burning? Is that normal or something that needs to be remedied?

DougGuy, yes, I was on the Ruger forum. I've been on hiatus for several months from the internet for personal reasons so I've not logged in there for quite awhile. I'll be back now that I'm more active.

[jrmartin1964]

Lyman's 454190 has been the "standard" for the .45 Colt cartridge since forever. This design's profile is virtually identical to that of factory ammunition, and most mould producers have something similar - if not outright identical - in their product lines. Stay with something close to this, and your .45s will thank you.
171394

[Messy bear]

OP asked for a recommended bullet as they don't cast yet. Not many answers as to where to go for them. I don't buy any so don't know.
As for molds when they get set up, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Lee 255 RF. Cheap easy to use mold that works both in rifle and revolver. Every time I use them I shake my head at the accuracy of this simple design. Might even get by tumble lubing.

[Bigslug]

Responding to the OP's second post (#20)

If I had to choose one bullet weight range for .45 Colt for all purposes, it would probably be something around 270-290 grains, as lighter just equates to the medium .44's, but with lower BC and SD. That will give you ample opportunity to load soft for fun, or hot for long range, and still be able to penetrate adequately in any critter North America.

Re. shape: Meplat (the leading flat surface of the nose) is what's going to matter as far as tissue damage goes. The meplat will force the tissue aside on entry, and a semi-wadcutter shoulder won't get to have any say in the matter. So as far as effect on game, not really any difference given equal diameters, mass, velocity, etc...

Penetration of a solid (non-hollowpoint) lead bullet will astound you. Nose shape again, more a factor of meplat than SWC shoulder. To put it in perspective, it takes 8-9 gallon milk jugs full of water to stop a 230 grain LBT Long Flat Nose (basically a round, flat nose design with a .32" meplat) .45 ACP fired at GI hardball velocity of 830fps. A .45 Colt can throw heavier, harder. You can also go to a Wide Flat Nose format (about .34" meplat") for more energy transfer (VERY impressive in a hot .45-70!), though you'll give up some distance if you intend to try replicating Elmer Keith's 600 yard handgun shenanigans.

Longer bullets present a better aerodynamic shape - look at target rifle bullets. Longer also "flies" better through meat because there's more units of weight behind each unit of frontal area.

Your best distance bullet will be shaped something like the space shuttle's main fuel tank(can't shoot those in a tube magazine!). Your best terminal effect bullet will be proportioned about like a Campbell's soup can. Your best bullet for game at distance will be some blending between the two.

[KYCaster]

Very low pressure is probably the cause of the unburned powder.

Jerry

[scattershot]

To Answer your first post, That Hornady bullet is a swaged bullet, and as such is pretty soft. I have had good luck with it, and in fact it's one of my favorites. I'd stick with the RNFP design or something similar, since you'll be shooting them in a rifle, too.

Most companies that cast bullets for sale cast them pretty hard. You might try Missouri Bullet Company and Beartooth Bullets, for starters. Good luck!

[Minerat]

Penn Bullets has a number of 45 cal cast bullets. http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html (http://rimrockbullets.net/top-shelf-bullets/cowboy-cast-lead-bullets/cb-45-lc-250-gr-rnfp-per-500.html)

Rimrock Has them too http://rimrockbullets.net/top-shelf-bullets/cowboy-cast-lead-bullets/cb-45-lc-250-gr-rnfp-per-500.html

This link will get you to a list of many cast bullet sources. http://www.reloadammo.com/relbul3.htm

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum.

(http://rimrockbullets.net/top-shelf-bullets/cowboy-cast-lead-bullets/cb-45-lc-250-gr-rnfp-per-500.html)

[Outpost75]

Very low pressure is probably the cause of the unburned powder. Jerry

More correctly, it is using a powder which is too slow burning for the velocity level attempted.

Unique or Universal are fine for "full charge" loads in the .45 Colt approximating 900 fps with 250-260-grain bullets, but below 800 fps ballistic uniformity with these powders will be poor.

For low velocity cowboy loads faster burning powders such as Bullseye, Red Dot or Trail Boss are more appropriate.

Bullseye was used for assembling arsenal service loads for the .45 M1909 revolver cartridge and .45 ACP as well as commercial .45 Colts for over 100 years. It is still an excellent choice and can be used for "full charge" loads approximating the original black powder ballistics with smokeless powder. Bullseye tolerates the free airspace in the case well and gives very uniform velocity and excellent accuracy with full charges.

A charge of 6.5 grains of Bullseye with 255-260 grain lead bullets approximates factory velocity and with lighter 230-250 grain bullets 7.2 grains of Bullseye is a full charge load well within SAAMI pressure limits.

[bigted]

OP asked for a recommended bullet as they don't cast yet. Not many answers as to where to go for them. I don't buy any so don't know.
As for molds when they get set up, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Lee 255 RF. Cheap easy to use mold that works both in rifle and revolver. Every time I use them I shake my head at the accuracy of this simple design. Might even get by tumble lubing.

YES i totally agree with this choice and for a mold that will cast two at a time ... 30 dollars is a bargain. the LEE pot is also a great bargain and i have taken to using the bottom pour with its downfalls easily contended with. these are a great 45 Colt boolit and do great in my Colt revolvers. Lee is a nice cheap way to forge into casting without breaking the bank. a ladle pot is even cheaper and still quality to spare. the Lee 255 grain round/flat nose is the shizzz nitzzz for me.

nother thing is a must if all available accuracy is to be gained. slugging the bore ... AND ... measuring the fired case mouth from the firearm you are gathering the info on. these measurements will get the diameter of boolit size you will want to get the best accuracy you can get out of your firearms.

contrary to popular belief is the notion that only OLDER revolvers or rifles will have the .454 inch requirement diameter. i have a third gen Colt SAA that requires the .454 inch diameter and a new Winchester "92" that the chamber is an unbelievable .4565 inch with a .454 inch bore. my Ruger New Vaquero is a .452 gun and a 1860 conversion is also a .452 inch gun.

so always measure your guns for what they need for boolit diameter so there will not be any over pressure problems. ALSO i would bet that the task is going to be daunting to find a load that will function and shoot in all 45 Colt chambered weapons. in fact i would bet on the outcome IF i were a betting man.

AND WELCOME TO THE FORUM also welcome to handling the greatest revolver cartridge in the world {my opinion anyhew}

[35 Whelen]

The Lee pots are OK, but you'll be money ahead to take the $30 a Lee mould costs and put it in a better quality mould. RCBS moulds are $76 less a $10 rebate. The iron moulds will last literally forever and will always have resale value. The last Lee mould I bought was the 45-255 RF. The alignment pins weren't fully seated so I had to correct that, then by the time had cast close to 300 bullets one of the pins would fall out when the mould got hot. I finally gave up, threw it away and bought a used RCBS 45-255 which casts a very, very accurate bullet.

http://www.mattsbullets.com casts and sells many designs of .45 caliber bullets including more traditional ones.

35W

[Bohica793]

It surprises me that no one has mentioned NOE's fine molds. I cast and use the particular round in both my Win 94 and Ruger Blackhawk. Mild load - 5.5 grains of Trail Boss. Thumper load - 12g Blue Dot.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_454_255Gr._RF_PB_257_gr_Sketc h.Jpg
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41_161&products_id=750

[Texantothecore]

Almost everyone starts with a Lee mold. The .452-255-rnfp would be a good starting point. It is one of the bullet molds that are available in six holers because it is a good shooter.

I'm very pleased with mine.

[flyingmonkey35]

I'd buy. From http://xtremebullets.com/ they sell hardcast or platted. And are normally 20 dollars cheaper per 500 then anyone else.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[pmer]

http://accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/45-300G-D.png

For when you get into casting, here is the Accurate Molds 45-300G. It fed good in a Rossi .45 Colt lever action I used to have (because of its .360 nose length). It has worked great for hunting in pistol, rifle and saboted for muzzle loader. But if you're into cowboy action shooting I'd find the lightest boolit that your equipment can shoot good.

[9.3X62AL]

Brandi and Sis--

There is a lot of good info in this thread. Distilling it into a generic recommendation of "where to go next".......your current powder is a fine choice for 45 Colt in the standard-pressure or slightly-warm realms. Like you, I favor heavy-for-diameter choices for most of my calibers. I remember when I cast my first Lyman #454424 (SWC) and #454190 (RNFP) bullets--my subjective impression at that time was that they were kind of short and squatty in aspect. I also think the RNFP design will be far less trouble to adapt to multi-tasking (revolver and levergun cross-over). The term "hard cast" is utterly imprecise as used in most sales literature and a lot of commentary. The bullets need to fit in order to achieve the best accuracy and to avoid excessive bore leading. Fit is king--metallurgy is queen (with the fidelity of Guinivere), and lube qualities are the 4th-born son of uncertain legitimacy who spends his allowance on strong drink and wenching.

The standard blackpowder loadings of the 1870s in 45 Colt were VERY useful ballistics. a 255-260 grain bullet at close to 1000 FPS was and is a devastating harvester of beast or bad guy. I had deep envy for a nearby agency (Anaheim PD) who authorized S&W Model 25-5 revolvers in 45 Colt for officers who wanted to furnish their own sidearm. This was in the late 1970s, but the caliber has lost no luster in the years that have gone by. It is a GREAT CHAMBERING.

[sghart3578]

I like simple and affordable.

I shoot the Lee 452-255-RF as cast and tumble lubed in my original Vaquero and my Rossi 92. I load them over 9 gr of Unique and they work very, very well.

I have ordered a new Blackhawk in 45 Colt that should be here in two weeks. I'm hoping this combo shoots well in it also.

Best of luck,


Steve in N CA

[9.3X62AL]

Sghart's 9.0 grains of Unique and a 250-260 grain-class bullet is hard to fault. I used like/similar loads in a Uberti Cattleman SAA clone (4-3/4" barrel) for many years of great shooting. Should NOT have sold it when the Built-Backwards BisHawk replaced it.

[runfiverun]

okay i'll simplify things.

buy a 225 or 255 rnfp boolit.
452 might not be just right for a couple of your guns. [try for 453 or 454]
your powder is fine.
just load for the lowest pressure gun you have and go with it for the rest.
I use 8.5-9.3grs of unique as my generic load with either my 225gr rnfp [magma engineering mold same as most commercial casters use] I also use a ton of this boolit in my 45 acp, and 45 AR cases.
or I use my 255 gr rnfp by lyman [452664]
I sold about 4 tons of these to cowboy shooters back in the day, and I use it for hunting and just about everything else.

if I had to make a choice I'd go with the 225gr rnfp as I know it will feed in every lever gun out there and do well in the revolvers too.
especially if I were buying them.

[waco]

I have an "Evil Roy" 1873 Peacemaker in .45 Colt

My go to load in the RCBS 45-270 SAA sized to .452" lubed with BAC

and seated over 8.0gr of Universal. Mild recoil and shoots well for me in my gun.

[salvadore]

Wow, I'm gonna change my name to Marylou next time I need some opinions.

[Drm50]

I have found that SWC type bullets in Win & Marlin lever guns can be a problem. Even the hyper
22s with truncated cone bullet wants to shave in 39 Marlin. I shoot a lot of 45colt in S&W and
Colt pistols and Marlin rifles. As others have already posted the best bullet I have found is the
original pattern 255gr RnFp. I have no experience with Henry and SWC bullets, but Wins & Marlins have to be "double clutched" to avoid shaving bullet.

[DougGuy]

Wow, thanks for all the great information, I appreciate the help very much.

DougGuy, yes, I was on the Ruger forum. I've been on hiatus for several months from the internet for personal reasons so I've not logged in there for quite awhile. I'll be back now that I'm more active.

You will find a multitude of help and suggestions here. Everything from casting to crimping and all things in between. This is the best forum on the net in a LOT of ways..

I will send you a PM about the other forum..

[Bigslug]

Fit is king--metallurgy is queen (with the fidelity of Guinivere), and lube qualities are the 4th-born son of uncertain legitimacy who spends his allowance on strong drink and wenching.

ROFLMAO!

Anybody else have a flash of Ben dressed in a black cape standing over a broken Lyman 4500 saying "Lube. . .I am your father!", or is that just me?
:bigsmyl2:

[Brandi]

Lot's of great information, thanks! It'll take me a bit to go through it all and mentally digest it lol. I knew that getting into reloading would have a learning curve so I was ready for that but the sheer amount of information out there for just one caliber is brain stretching lol. Hopefully we'll have our chronograph sometime before next month and we'll be able to start really seeing what our test loads are doing speedwise. I got a great book on loading for the Springfield Trapdoor for my birthday a couple weeks ago and I've been doing a lot of reading about loading the best .45-70's for these old beauties. (Yes, I do have one :) ) It's an 1873 Model carbine that started life as a rifle and was cut down (as many were) at some point. Some folks who know these guns pretty well have inspected it and said it was likely cut down in the late 1800's by someone who was extremely skilled because it was done very well. The bore is in excellent condition and the gun itself is in very good condition. I really wanted a "from the arsenal" carbine but couldn't afford one at the time and this one showed up at the right time and right price so I bought it. I LOVE these guns :) I got off track of the .45 Colt but reading this thread reminded me that my new book talks about loading the .45 Colt also which made me think of .45-70 and here we are lol. Anywho, thanks for all the help so far everyone!!

[ironhead7544]

I would say pick one of the many commercial caster's 250 gr RNFP. They are made to feed in leverguns. Levers can be fussy about what they will feed. You will have to test a bit to find a load that works with rifle and revolver.

The Accurate 45-2450 looks about right for a hunting and target all around bullet.

[Outpost75]

...The Accurate 45-2450 looks about right for a hunting and target all around bullet.

Just to clarify the Accurate mold designator, the last is a letter "O" as in Oscar, not a figure "zero."

A wonderful revolver game bullet which feeds well in rifles.

However, at ranges beyond 100 yards in rifles I have found the 45-259EB to be a better long range performer, if that is important for you and is cast in soft 1:40 tin-lead alloy also a good game bullet with full charges.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

All good advise here. The 454190 is not recommended for tubular magazines because the meplat is small enough that it could theoretically detonate a large primer under recoil. I'm not familiar with any detonation in a tubular magazine ever actually occurring, but even frontier era guns had flat noses for tubular magazines.

[needausername]

I load 45 colt for a 5.5" revolver, 16" carbine and 20" rifle with scope. I've settled on 2 bullets for use. First is the commercially made Magma 45-250 which I buy in bulk from Missouri Bullet Co as the #1. The other is the Lee 452-255 that drops and lubes at 260gr +/- 1. Both are rnfp. For me, powder selection is the key. I load with 8gr Unique for 925fps out of the revolver and 1120fps out of the carbine. That charge slows down out of the 20" barrel so I use 16gr of 2400 over the Lee for it. Slightly better velocities and will cut clovers at 40 yards if I do my part.

Unique is a fine old powder, but I don't think it's best in the 250gr and above range. It's a medium powder that does a little of everything ok, but not great. Fine for the revolver and carbine at steel plates, but it does better in the Schofield case with 180 to 225gr bullets and shorter case.

That said, both of those bullets seat deaper than some. The #1 seats in the groove at an OAL of 1.575" and doesn't require anywhere near the published load data to get the velocity. Same with the Lee as it seats to right about 1.555" for me.

For reference, here's my last chrono session for Unique and the #1 Missouri Bullet at 1.575" OAL . Arrows indicate whether the muzzle was pointed up and brought down to target or the opposite.



Bullet

Charge

5.5” Bisley 1

5.5” Bisley 2

SPR

16” Rossi 1

16” Rossi 2

SPR



250 LRNFP

6.5 Unique

↑ 800

↓ 706

94

↑ 967

↓ 871

96



250 LRNFP

7.0 Unique

↑ 855

↓ 795

65

↑ 993

↓ 930

63



250 LRNFP

7.5 Unique

↑ 883

↓ Err



↑ 1058

↓ 988

70



250 LRNFP

8.0 Unique

↑ 905

↓ 863

42

↑ 1115

↓ 1072

43



250 LRNFP

8.5 Unique

↑ 994

↓ 874

120

↑ 1160

↓ 1099

61



250 LRNFP

9.0 Unique

↑ Err

↓ 947



↑ 1199

↓ 1160

39



250 LRNFP

9.5 Unique

↑ 1080

↓ 991

89

↑ 1238

↓ 1210

28



250 LRNFP

10.0 Unique

↑ 1145

↓ Err



↑ 1274

↓ 1256

18




Welcome to the sport.

[historicfirearms]

Wow, I'm gonna change my name to Marylou next time I need some opinions.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.😂
Good things to think about here. Just try not to get overwhelmed, it's easy to do with all the enthusiastic helpers here. Stick to simple at first. The 45 Colt is forgiving to reload and lots of fun to experiment with.

[Tar Heel]

The 454190 or its clone from Accurate Molds.

173164

[Cornbread]

It surprises me that no one has mentioned NOE's fine molds. I cast and use the particular round in both my Win 94 and Ruger Blackhawk. Mild load - 5.5 grains of Trail Boss. Thumper load - 12g Blue Dot.


http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41_161&products_id=750


The bullet you showed is my all time favorite plane base bullet for 45 Colt. I literally shoot thousands of them a year. They work great from hard cast to soft cast and they work in my lever actions and they work in my handguns. I have shot everything from deer and bear with them all the way down to ground squirrels. I shot my black bear last year with this bullet out of a revolver and I have shot multiple deer with them as well. Can't say enough good things about that mold.

[High Desert Hunter]

Two bullets I have had exceptional luck with at velocities from 800 to 100 FPS are the Lee 250gr RNFP and the best is the RCBS 45-270SAA which drop at 284 grains from my mold with wheel weights. Both will do most anything I ask a 45 Colt to do, and I shoot them in everything from a S&W 25-13 to a Freedom Arms 454 Casull. They are exceptionally accurate in my Ruger Flattop 45.

[DougGuy]

Ok Brandi, In looking over the responses I think it's a safe bet to say that the RF or RNFP style is most favored. It is here too.

I use the Lee C452-300-RF which gains very high remarks among shooters and hunters. There was a group buy last year for an "improved" version of this boolit that had better and more pronounced crimp grooves, the gas check shank was larger and a more snug fit than the Lee, and it could be ordered .452" or .454" which is much better than the hit or miss sizing of the Lee mold. Some Lee molds dropped small and some dropped large enough to size to .452" and this should cover just about any need for a heavy for caliber boolit.

There are several different producers of the 255gr RF boolit. The NOE design was mentioned a few posts up from this one and it is also an improved version of the Lee C452-255-RF for a more standard weight boolit for .45 Colt.

So I will say that my vote for the best all around boolit for .45 Colt would have to go to the 255gr RF style with the widest meplat I could find. I would also choose one with one lube groove as opposed to several shallow grooves like a TL would have, and I would choose one with a well defined crimp groove. I guess I am describing the NOE mold perfectly now..

Edit: I just remembered two samples sent to me by a member for testing in my .45 Schofield project that deserve honorable mention here too. Fitting the above description to the TEE, are two LBT 250gr WFN boolits, one with plain base and one gas check. These are from Montana Bullet Works (which is apparently open again). The .350" meplat is HUGE, and I particularly like the sides of this boolit as there is quite a long bearing surface. I haven't fired any of these but they should be an excellent performer on targets or game. The PB weighs 246gr the GC weighs 253gr.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/LBT250WFN_zpsboj28obo.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/LBT250WFN_zpsboj28obo.jpg.html)

Links:

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-250gr-wfn-gc/

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-250gr-wfn-pb/

Montana Bullet Works also offers the 260gr LBT Ogival Wadcutter if you fancy a near soup can which would offer a devastating wound channel at supersonic velocities for hunting.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-250gr-owc-pb/

[leveraction 45 colt]

well let me say this I own two pistols and two leveraction rifles in 45 colt and I use and old lyman single cavity mold in 454190 its a mold they don't make it anymore but only in a double cavity mold in that part number! so heres my load I cast out of this single cavity mold and it has no crimp groove but I use a lee collet crimping die part# 90302 it will make a crimp on that bullet! and I have no problem in both of my rossi 92 leveraction rifles with bullet setback! and I also use a lee sizer die in .457 and I get zero leading in any of my guns chambered for this bigger bullet! but I use 6.8gr greendot powder with this bullet and this shoots super accurate in all four of my guns and I have zero leading!!! and I lube with lee alox as I coat the bullets before sizing and then I recoat after sizing and let dry both times work very well! :)

[Texantothecore]

Most of the Noe moulds drop rfswc bullets at .454. I will be getting a mold later this year.

The rf is not part of the mould designation but it is definitely a part of of the design.

[Texantothecore]

The .45 long colt is a fundamently sound chambering. It'll shoot aerosol Cheese Whiz accurately.

[Brandi]

The .45 long colt is a fundamently sound chambering. It'll shoot aerosol Cheese Whiz accurately.

Hmmm....I do like Cheese Whiz......

[Brandi]

Still haven't decided on a factory bullet to load our .45 Colts yet.... We got a little side tracked by trying to pick a bullet and powder for 9mm since we just got those dies. We've amassed dies for .45 Colt, .45acp, 9mm, .357 mag and .223/5.56 to date and we needed 9mm more at the moment but I'm still trying to figure out a .45 Colt bullet.

A RNFP seems to be as good a choice as any of the SWC types so I just need to find an affordable place to get some hard lead bullets in the 255 grain range. Unfortunately I'm limited to "affordable" choices at the moment with the other calibers coming online and needing bullets and powder for them too.

[Outpost75]

You really don't need "hard" bullets in the .45 Colt. Original factory loads were soft, nearly pure lead. I use 1:30 tin-lead in my revolver loads up to 1000 fps and for plain based rifle loads to 1400 fps. using either smokeless or black powder.

Matt's Bullets is a good place to try a few http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=279

[Brandi]

You really don't need "hard" bullets in the .45 Colt. Original factory loads were soft, nearly pure lead. I use 1:30 tin-lead in my revolver loads up to 1000 fps and for plain based rifle loads to 1400 fps. using either smokeless or black powder.

Matt's Bullets is a good place to try a few http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=279

I'm not opposed to common soft bullets but I want to stick with something that will drill holes through big gnarly hogs, mountain lions, alligators, black bears, sasquatches, yeti's and rhinosauruses that might jump out and try to sell me discount vacation time shares. Soft bullets don't work as well for the tougher critters.

[Outpost75]

I'm not opposed to common soft bullets but I want to stick with something that will drill holes through big gnarly hogs, mountain lions, alligators, black bears, sasquatches, yeti's and rhinosauruses that might jump out and try to sell me discount vacation time shares. Soft bullets don't work as well for the tougher critters.

If you are significantly exceeding black powder velocities, as in the "Ruger-Only" loads, I concur and agree.

But where I live there are no predators big enough to eat'cha, and I feel such loads unnecessary.

The classic black powder equivalent 255-grains, 1000 fps as obtained with black powder from a 7-1/2" barrel is entirely adequate for nearly all purposes you would attempt with a handgun.

Truth be told, the great majority of my .44 Magnum loads do not exceed that payload and energy level.

[Char-Gar]

It is my opinion, humble or otherwise, that most handloaders load for their fantasies and not their realities. Fantasy is harmless enough, up to the point we can't distinguish it from reality.

[DougGuy]

Brandi, the boolit Outpost75 linked to would be a good one to at least try out. 100 are affordable and if you don't like them you don't have much invested. Matt's says these are around BHN11 and the lube is Caranuba Red, which is a soft lube, just hard enough for shipping. This alloy and lube would be great in Ruger's rifling and twist rate.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=279

That said, I am no big fan of the bevel base, and I had REAL GOOD accuracy and velocity out of the Montana Bullet Works 250gr WFN-PB which is slightly harder at BHN14-15 or thereabouts, and they lube with Veral's proprietary lube which is good stuff. I like the wider meplat for hunting and it was quite accurate in my experience. Slightly longer bearing surfaces on the sides IMO add to stability. This would be a hog's worst nightmare in front of a hefty load of H110.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-250gr-wfn-pb/

[Brandi]

It is my opinion, humble or otherwise, that most handloaders load for their fantasies and not their realities. Fantasy is harmless enough, up to the point we can't distinguish it from reality.

You are definitely right about that. It is mostly fantasy but when you have to choose between one or the other it's just more fun to load to the fantasy side and after all, this whole process is just for fun anyway.

[Brandi]

Brandi, the boolit Outpost75 linked to would be a good one to at least try out. 100 are affordable and if you don't like them you don't have much invested. Matt's says these are around BHN11 and the lube is Caranuba Red, which is a soft lube, just hard enough for shipping. This alloy and lube would be great in Ruger's rifling and twist rate.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=279

That said, I am no big fan of the bevel base, and I had REAL GOOD accuracy and velocity out of the Montana Bullet Works 250gr WFN-PB which is slightly harder at BHN14-15 or thereabouts, and they lube with Veral's proprietary lube which is good stuff. I like the wider meplat for hunting and it was quite accurate in my experience. Slightly longer bearing surfaces on the sides IMO add to stability. This would be a hog's worst nightmare in front of a hefty load of H110.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-250gr-wfn-pb/

I like that Montana bullet. I've just been a fan of heavier bullets with 255 being my minimum and no heavier than around 270. Why? Just because heavier lead FP bullets work better when piercing heavier critters it seems. Is that relevant to my reality? No but as I said in my post above it's all about the fun. However, at the moment cost is probably going to be the deciding factor.

[Drm50]

I shoot a lot of 45 Colt. Have S&W m25s and Colt NS. I shoot two bullets the old original 255
RNFP and a Full Wadcutter 242gr. Both bullets cast soft in old Ideal molds. MV approx 750 fps
on WC and 850fps on RNFP. I have several SWC molds, but the RNFP seems to outshoot them.
Like some body already said hard bullet is not necessary. The only bullet that I would not recommend is the Speer lead swaged bullets, they lead bad no matter what they are shot out
of, even at 750 FPS.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I've found my 454424 cast 4 parts Linotype 6 parts wheel weights shoot just as well my 454190's cast out of pure wheel weights.

Load data collected down through the years on a variety of powders has me settled on Unique.

Scovill's RCBS 45 270 has printed the tightest groups I've ever seen my half dozen Colt's SAA do.

Sized .454" lubed with Alox from 3rd Gen Colt's.

[tdoyka]

an old guy, that was my good friend, had a ruger blackhawk with a 5.5" barrel in a 45 colt. all he ever used was a rcbs 270gr saa. he shot a black bear that went over 450lbs at 45+/- yards, he said it went thru the onside shoulder, tore up both lungs and the top of its heart and then it went out the other side. his best guessimate was it went thru around 24"+ and kept on going. i don't remember what kind of powder he used but it was 900+fps. i think? it could have been unique, but i'm not sure.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I friend of mine shot a black bear at 100 yards with his Colt's 5 1/2" using a boolit cast from my RCBS 44-250-K and a healthy dolap of Unique. The boolit severed the Bears spine. He is a phenomenal shot. It was a one shot stop.

[9.3X62AL]

Both the 44 Magnum and the 45 Colt are first-rate predator-stoppers......whether said predator travels on two or four feet. I envied a nearby local agency that authorized use of S&W Model 25-5 revolvers in 45 Colt c. 1980 or thereabouts.

I admit a strong fondness for Mr. Keith's #454424 in 45 Colt, and in my several past and present 45 Colts this bullet has shot about as well as the old stand-by #454190......once the present BisHawk's throats got religion from .448" to .453". Even with the backwards throating, the revolver shot an odd SWC that looks a bit Thompson-esque (#454490) very well.

Another tweak I intro'ed to the 45 Colt reloading that has paid off well in terms of brass life and improved consistency downrange was to DO AWAY with the RCBS tungsten-carbide sizer die and go Old School--back to steel sizing dies with a bit of lube. Reasoning here is that the RCBS TC sizer reduced case diameter to .469". The steel die reduces diameter to .476"-.477", depending on case make. I use a .452" expander for my .454" castings, and all of the brass-working being done in the past gave me a case life of about 4-5 firings before neck and body splits started occurring--regardless of load intensity. Most of my 45 Colt loads are 250 grain-class bullets at 850-1000 FPS, so they weren't getting over-stressed by firing--just by tool dimensioning. Much mo bettah now. I am doing the same regimen with 44 Magnum as well, for the same reasons.

[Bigslug]

174716 Well, I'm happy to say that I'll be heavily invested in helping you find out!

My new 4.2" .45C/ACP Redhawk is presently in 10-day Purgatory. I took my pin gauges to the shop when I heard it was in - throats all at .451" and bore at muzzle .443"

Gonna be trying the NOE/Ranch Dog ACP/Auto Rim in both 234 grain solid and 220 grain HP - - at least once the group buy runs and I get my copies:
174718 This has the dual advantages of reduced production time and probably more than enough thump for the critters I'm likely to run into

Gonna also try the NOE clone of Elmer's 452423:
174719 I like to say that Elmer Keith was probably pissed off at the world when he designed this one, little wrecking ball that it is. Originally followed in Char-Gar's footsteps using it in the ACP. Fair/mixed results in automatics - been eager to try it in revolvers.

My dad has an original 2-cavity RCBS 270 grainer mold:
174720 I like the bullet design a lot, but being a two-holer, it'll have to give me something really special for me to put up with the slow casting rate . . . especially since we've got one of these coming:

174721 Accurate Molds 45-275D. Ordered for another gun, but should work fine in this one. Has the meplat of the Keith and the weight of the RCBS. I'm thinking that this has a good chance of being The One, but as I'm trying to balance impact with recoil comfort, only time and research will tell if I want to be chucking something that heavy.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

9.3X62AL You are very correct that carbide sizer dies fail to resize the .45 Colt with the proper taper, however I recently purchased a brand new RCBS steel sizer die and it also fails to resize with the proper .45 Colt taper. The new RCBS steel sizer die resizes to a straight wall shape with no taper. I have been neck resizing for years with the carbide die without much difficultly. I have intending to write to RCBS to ask them to make me a proper .45 Colt die for some time now but haven't done that yet.

Hornady makes a .45 Colt die which advertises 2 different sized carbide rings, a larger one at the base and a tighter one for the neck however I have not tried it yet.

[9.3X62AL]

I hear ya, Jack. I was a little put-off when I first got the steel sizer.......that it wasn't "true" to SAAMI orthodoxy. But I can live with the better finished dimensions and longer case life I now get. No more "Coke-bottling" of cartridges.

[DougGuy]

Taper for .45 Colt? This is a straight walled cartridge. There is no taper in the original SAAMI specs for the cartridge itself, only for the chamber which *is* tapered. Same with .44 Magnum.

[Char-Gar]

9.3X62AL You are very correct that carbide sizer dies fail to resize the .45 Colt with the proper taper, however I recently purchased a brand new RCBS steel sizer die and it also fails to resize with the proper .45 Colt taper. The new RCBS steel sizer die resizes to a straight wall shape with no taper. I have been neck resizing for years with the carbide die without much difficultly. I have intending to write to RCBS to ask them to make me a proper .45 Colt die for some time now but haven't done that yet.

Hornady makes a .45 Colt die which advertises 2 different sized carbide rings, a larger one at the base and a tighter one for the neck however I have not tried it yet.

I don't know about current production RCBS steel sizers in 45 Colt, but the ones from the 50's, 60's and 70's did produce a tapered case that fit the cylinder charge holes better and reduced brass sizing and hence better case life.

Here is what you need;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331939189764?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

When I looked at this, I noted there was just a short time left to bid, so I put in a bid with a sniper program. I don't need this die, as I have three of them already. Should I win the bid, I will check it out, polish the insides and pass it along, for what I have in it, plus postage, to anybody that wants it on this board.

[Char-Gar]

Taper for .45 Colt? This is a straight walled cartridge. There is no taper in the original SAAMI specs for the cartridge itself, only for the chamber which *is* tapered. Same with .44 Magnum.

Factory 45 Colt ammo does have a taper. I suppose this came about to help with extraction. I have measured it many time, the last factory 45 Colt ammo I had was some Buffalo Bore about 15 years ago and it had a taper.

At any rate older steel dies does produce sized cases with a measurable taper and produces ammo that mimics factory ammo. The brass is worked less and therefore gives greater life and there is less slop in the charge hole giving better alignment to the throats.

A carbide die can be adjusted up to just neck size the case and do about the same thing, but often rounds thus loaded won't interchange in other handguns.

This topic comes up from time to time and all I can say is stop looking at charts, grab some factory ammo and a micrometer and see what you find. You will find a round that look straight, but indeed is tapered. Now size a case with a carbide die and see what you get.

I have old RCBS 45 Colt sizing dies from the 50s, 60s and 70s, plus a couple of old Lyman Shell Resizer hand dies from the 50's. They all produced tapered cases that mimic factory ammo.

I jumped on the carbide bandwagon when Lyman first produced one that was affordable in 38/357 about 1964 or thereabouts. I kept buying them as they came out in other revolver calibers. Boy, no more case lube, what a deal. It took me almost 30 to realize they were over sizing the brass and went back to older steel sizers. The only carbide sizer I use is 45 ACP/AR as there is no dimensional difference between cases sized with carbide and steel.

[DougGuy]

At any rate older steel dies does produce sized cases with a measurable taper and produces ammo that mimics factory ammo. The brass is worked less and therefore gives greater life and there is less slop in the charge hole giving better alignment to the throats.

They likely tapered the die to ease extracting the resized case. Never measured any factory ammo LOL never owned any!

If no one else wants that RCBS die Char-Gar posted the link to, I'd like to have it just to see what it sizes to since I haven't ever had anything but Lee sizing dies and yes they do coke bottle a case pretty good.

The Uberti I posted the pic of has .4565" throats and I size to .456" for it, I already had to make a custom expander plug for the powder die which works pretty good but having a sizing die that worked the case less makes sense.

PM sent to Char-Gar

[Outpost75]

I measured some old Western Lubaloy .45 Colt rounds from lot 57PN12, having an original price of $5.95 penciled onto the red, yellow and blue box. Cartridges have round, nickle plated primer with red laquer seal, headstamped WESTERN .45 COLT.

Base diameter ahead of rim head turn is .478", diameter below cannelure under bullet base is .476", and diameter over bullet behind crimp is also .476".

Modern Winchester Super-X .45 Colt 255-grain lead with unplated bullet and flat cupped brass colored primer with no visible lacquer, in silver, black and white box, measures .477 diameter at base, .475 under case cannelure and .473" behind case mouth over bullet.

My cast bullet handloads assembled in twice-fired Starline brass, using Lee dies, measure .475" diameter at the base, .470 at the approximate midpoint of the body, below the base of seated .452 bullet and .475" again at the mouth over the seated bullet, behind the roll crimp.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The Colt's chambers have a slight taper, no doubt to ease extraction in the heat and dust of battle in the black powder era. New 3rd Gen Colt's shot with full length resized cases will result in cases split among the longitude of the cases. Neck resizing solves the longitudinal splits. Ruger .45 Colt chambers are tighter and won't chamber neck resized cases fire from Colt's SAA's. Nothing's perfect to spec in the 45 Colt.

[Char-Gar]

For fun, I gabbed some loaded 45 Colt ammo on my bench. It is old REM-UMC balloon head case. I also took a fired case and sized it in an old Lyman Shell Resizer using the arbor press. This brass has been loaded by me 5X and I have no idea if it was reloaded or not before it fell into my disreputable hands.

The base on both cases measured .478
The mid-case on both measured .475
The sized case mouth was .472 and the loaded case mouth was .474 with a .452 bullet.

Still have ammo in my stash loaded with RCBS carbide die. It measures .476 at the base, .470 at mid-case and .474 at the case mouth over the same .452 bullet. 2X Starline brass.

[Char-Gar]

You are definitely right about that. It is mostly fantasy but when you have to choose between one or the other it's just more fun to load to the fantasy side and after all, this whole process is just for fun anyway.

Well, it all for fun UNTIL you damage your shooting hand and elbow shooting bear stomp loads, when all you needed was something 500 fps slower. A well known handgun writer, whose name will be known to anybody, has had multiple surgery on his hand and elbow and only shoots mild loads for fun. When he is testing bear stomp loads for an article, he uses several braces on his hand and arm and only shoots enough rounds for the article.

But this is stuff, younger shooters "blow off" until it to late. "Too soon old and to late smart."

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Char-Gar, what should be done is I should take a casting of one of my Colt's chambers and send that into RCBS or I should send one of my .45 Colt's cylinders into RCBS and ask them to make me a steel die with proper dimensions.

Funny how the older RCBS dies from the 50's, 60's and 70's had a taper consistent with the dimensions of the Colt, I remember the die manufactures seater plugs were all off dimensions back then and we had to have them turned down.

[tdoyka]

Well, it all for fun UNTIL you damage your shooting hand and elbow shooting bear stomp loads, when all you needed was something 500 fps slower. A well known handgun writer, whose name will be known to anybody, has had multiple surgery on his hand and elbow and only shoots mild loads for fun. When he is testing bear stomp loads for an article, he uses several braces on his hand and arm and only shoots enough rounds for the article.

But this is stuff, younger shooters "blow off" until it to late. "Too soon old and to late smart."

i'm 43 y.o. and all i can use is mild loads using unique:bigsmyl2:. do i qualify for "too soon old and to late smart"?:kidding:

i used to load my 44 mag like the bats out of h*** and then some. if hornady or speer would say x powder using y grains of powder in a 240gr bullet will give you a max. velocity of 1500 fps. that is where i would start at and i would go to zz gr of powder and velocity would go alot high than 1500fps. of course, split cases are common and pressure, well we won't go into that! i was young and dumb and i thought that i knew it all. i'll give bill ruger his dues, he sure knew how to build them.

anyway, i've had a stroke a couple of years ago and since then i have been handi-capable. i've had to sell off my srh with a 7.5" barrel for the sbh with a 4 5/8" barrel. i've stayed with the 44 mag, but i've recently fell in luv with the 44 sp and unique. i've been thinking alot about buying another blackhawk in 45 colt. although i don't have it, i do enjoy the discussions about what boolit is best.

[Butchman205]

Lyman's 454190 has been the "standard" for the .45 Colt cartridge since forever. This design's profile is virtually identical to that of factory ammunition, and most mould producers have something similar - if not outright identical - in their product lines. Stay with something close to this, and your .45s will thank you.
171394

Plus they look really cool when they're pink!
I blended some of Smoke's white and red powder for shake-n-bake powder coated boolits. I purposely made them a color that I wouldn't easily get mixed up with any others...and that's what I use on my "Ruger Only" hot loads with H110 powder. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160831/13d411a214ecc6d16ede03170082360b.jpg


-Butchman

[jonp]

For shooting paper and steel, I've settled on the 200 gr. RNFP bullet for almost all my .45 Colt firearms, both handguns and rifles. It's an accurate bullet and I get more bullets per pound of alloy. I also use it for a lot of my .45 acp loading, since it functions fine in the 1911's, Witnesses and XD's, as well as the Ruger convertibles.

I size mine .452" for everything and I've yet to find any leading.

Hope this helps.

Fred
Thats what I use for target over Promo or unique

[Brandi]

Plus they look really cool when they're pink!
I blended some of Smoke's white and red powder for shake-n-bake powder coated boolits. I purposely made them a color that I wouldn't easily get mixed up with any others...and that's what I use on my "Ruger Only" hot loads with H110 powder. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160831/13d411a214ecc6d16ede03170082360b.jpg


-Butchman

That is down be-yooo-T-ful!!

[Brandi]

Been a bit since I checked in last so thought I'd update what's new. First thing is not much! Things on the reloading front have been at a crawl for awhile with most of the free money going into car repairs and home repairs. My sisters car is up on jacks and has been for months now while she moves forward fixing it a little at a time as money allows. We had a water line freeze in the ceiling in December. It broke and by the time it was discovered it had flooded the ceiling above the kitchen/hall before the weight of the water finally caused the ceiling to fall in several places dumping all that water all over the cabinets, counters, appliances and floor. It was especially bad because we had spent everything we had 5 years earlier having the whole house remodelled. Now the kitchen and hallway ceilings look like a slum because the insurance deductible was a few thousand dollars! Word to the wise...know your deductibles!

Anywho, we've since obtained a chronograph which is proving to be invaluable. We are still working on developing a "warm" New Vaquero load. We are using commercial 255 grain SWC and Universal (for now) to see if we can get around 1000fps with it. Our last test loads used 7.8 grains of Universal and averaged 850 fps from 4.63" and 5.5" barrels. I've read it's safe to up the powder so the next batch will probably be 8.0 grains. Hopefully we get closer.

Two good things have happened since my last visit here. We've (well my sis did, couldn't afford both of us) joined the local gun club giving us (me as a guest) access to everything from archery ranges to skeet/trap/sporting clays to cowboy action to long range (600 max for now) and everything in between. It was a pricey membership but it's way cheaper than paying to shoot at public ranges and has far more shooting possibilities. Second good thing was I finally scored one of the guns I've wanted for years. It's a stainless 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk Bisley Convertible .45 Colt/.45acp. It's near new condition, previous owner said he shot less than two 20 round boxes of .45 Colt through it and probably less than that in .45acp. Came with a leather flap style holster and around 20 rounds of factory shot shells (snake shot). Unfortunately he didn't have the original case but still a great deal at $600. Means I have to sell my blued 5.5" Blackhawk Convertible .45 Colt/.45acp but I'm OK with that. It's a beautiful gun but I definitely prefer the stainless Bisley version.

Anywho, I'll be back soon and eager to learn some more :-).

[Ithaca Gunner]

Here's something I'm surprised I haven't seen in this thread yet, why not post in the commercial forum, (swappi'n and selli'n-wanted to buy) bullets for .45 Colt in say, 100 boolit of a particular type. What you'll get will be far better than commercial cast, and probably a lot cheaper to boot in "try em out" quanitys. You can then plan on the purchase of the mold that best works in all your guns. My guess would be the Lyman 454190, or a style very similar. I've never owned a long gun in .45Colt, but I've read posts from members here stating they use it with no problems.

Being on a tight budget sucks. My first casting was in the early 70's, Lyman 575213NS Minie boolits for N-SSA competition. I had a cast iron pot on a Coleman stove, a heavy push through sizing die that clamped in a vice, home made bee's wax/Crisco lube mix, and that was about it. It worked well enough that I never changed my method of casting those big Minies other than getting a Rapine 20lb. dipping style electric furnace similar to the one LEE currently offers. I now cast .30 rifle and up to .45/70 as well as all my handgun needs with a more modern method, except .45Colt and .45/70 black powder cartridges where I use the old black powder lube, I just stand the boolits in a pan, pour the melted lube around them and "kut" them out, loading them unsized, (.45Colt .456" like original black powder factory ammo, and .460-.461 for .45-70). Yes, 125 year old factory .45Colt ammo used boolits that big, (both my .45Colts are late black powder era revolvers, I cast large and soft for em). I have and use a modern lubrasizer for most applications, but nothing wrong with pan lubing and if you have a press, you have a sizer, LEE sells affordable push through sizers that mount right on a press and work well.


When I got my first .45Colt revolver, I simply used a LEE 225gr. rn mold for the .45ACP, (again, not concerning myself with a rifle) and they worked well enough with 30gr. of FFFG. black powder for the "cavalry" load. Elmer Keith stated back in the 50's that if he were limited to factory ammo in a revolver, it would be the .45Colt, (back then the only factory loads used 250/255gr. LRN swaged bullets at about 850fps.). I've used bee's wax and Crisco as lube for light smokeless loads in the .45Colt with no issues or leading, same as Lyman "Orange Magic" which is intended for smokeless loads.

Again, I would suggest you post in the commercial forum, "Wanted to try-boolits for .45Colt-revolver and rifle". Ask for what you think you will need for a load development in your modern guns. I think you'll be way ahead in the game.