Finally found a reason to own a glock.

[blademasterii]

When i'm hanging out at the gunshop and people ask about the glock I am not afraid to give my opinion. They are ugly, grip angle is wrong and made of plastic. They also always go bang, are not expensive, fairly light and I can cut the center out of the target with one. That being said I just don't really like them. I finally found a reason to buy one. Did I mention the triggers are ****? 171091 It mostly hides the ugly.171092 With sights and green laser.

[jmort]

I don't own a glock, but that seems as good as any reason.

[funnyjim014]

I feel the same way about my glock. I don't fit right, too light, sexy as a YUGo, but I hit better and faster. The timer don't lie. I shot a 1911, 92fs, BHP 9mm, still faster with the plastic molded toy. Just my 2cts

[mozeppa]

did i mention that i was planning to date a very ugly girl?

for a fat girl...she don't sweat much!:groner: but makes a great grilled cheese sammich!

[Bzcraig]

did i mention that i was planning to date a very ugly girl?

for a fat girl...she don't sweat much!:groner: but makes a great grilled cheese sammich!

Now that paints a picture!!

[Lloyd Smale]

shoot one enough and the ugly goes away. Its why few people that buy there first glock don't end up buying another.

[rugerdude]

I've shot Glocks a number of times. I can hit with them, but I have to actually think about doing it. For me, the grip is not instinctive and by design shoots low in my hands. I will not own one. I will stick with my 1911 and my revolvers. With the 1911 I can quite literally close me eyes, draw, extend my arms and fire and be on a B27 target at 15 yards.

[daschnoz]

Maybe I'm too old school. Guns should be made of metal; if not steel, then an aluminum alloy, but definitely not plastic.

Plastic is for grips, stocks, and hand guards, not the main stress bearing structural component of a firearm. With that said, Glocks are good, affordable, and reliable guns. Would I own one, no. If it's my only option and I NEED to use it, I would not think twice about it; they go bang every time.

Let's face it, if the polymer that they use wasn't up to the task, Glock wouldn't still be making them, and other gun manufacturers would not have developed polymer pistols of their own.

[Artful]

Good as any reason to buy a Pistol Caliber Carbine - get a suppressor for that thing and it will be a really fun toy.

[garym1a2]

Is this a chassis or do they have longer barrel.

[jmort]

It is a modular carbine "upper" with a Glock "lower"

[Garyshome]

"Good as any reason to buy a Pistol Caliber Carbine " You won't need a tax stamp either.

[baogongmeo]

And you think a Glock is ugly? Wow.

[blademasterii]

Actually it is a chassis. A roni chassis. The Glock is intact and unmodified under all that. That is not a barrel shroud it is my liberty mystic suppressor. This is a two stamp gun. Legally now a sbr or short barreled rifle. There are other uppers that attach to the Glock lower with correct length barrel and oal but this isn't one of them. There is a short angled barrel shroud that I removed to add the suppressor. It has a line wolf threaded barrel and an upgraded trigger. Trigger still sucks but it is a bit lighter than factory.

[Moonie]

My son has a Glock in 357 Sig, I like the way it shoots, bought an XD Subcompact mod.2 in 40 and added a 9mm ported barrel, 357 Sig barrel is next.

[EDK]

Way back when in the revolver only days, 1911 afficionados spoke of its reliability, blablabla. IPSC proved some of those claims BUT the 1911 had usually been to visit a GOOD pistolsmith for some extensive modifications.
GLOCKS don't inspire the pride of ownership like a cosmetically enhanced pistol or revolver, but they work out of the box. I've run 2000+ rounds per month on either 9mm (17 and 34) and more recently 45acp (41 and 30S.) I installed KKM barrels to shoot lead and not damage brass..and got enhanced accuracy as a bonus. The only modifications were OEM "minus connectors" on the guns that didn't have them AND a black sharpie on the sights.
As Joe Friday said, "Just the facts ma'am."

[9.3X62AL]

Now that paints a picture!!

Uh, yeah......one that can never be un-seen.

[junkpile]

Maybe I'm too old school. Guns should be made of metal; if not steel, then an aluminum alloy, but definitely not plastic.

Plastic is for grips, stocks, and hand guards, not the main stress bearing structural component of a firearm. With that said, Glocks are good, affordable, and reliable guns. Would I own one, no. If it's my only option and I NEED to use it, I would not think twice about it; they go bang every time.

Let's face it, if the polymer that they use wasn't up to the task, Glock wouldn't still be making them, and other gun manufacturers would not have developed polymer pistols of their own.

The polymer is not used on any of the main stress bearing components of the firearm. Those parts are steel. I hated them until I forced myself to start using one. They are now the guns I shoot, carry, and abuse endlessly. I don't spend any time admiring them, though.

I do still prefer the fit, appearance, and feel of my 1911. I just trust the Glock more.

[Walkingwolf]

I own three of them, they are OK, but that is it. They work, but my 1911's work. When they have been around as long as my Star Super proof stamped in 1949 and still functioning then I will consider them as competition to a 1911. As stated they are OK, high capacity, light, and popular but not anything more in my eyes.

[mozeppa]

I own three of them, they are OK, but that is it. They work, but my 1911's work. When they have been around as long as my Star Super proof stamped in 1949 and still functioning then I will consider them as competition to a 1911. As stated they are OK, high capacity, light, and popular but not anything more in my eyes.


star model "A" 1922 in 38 acp

[junkpile]

I own three of them, they are OK, but that is it. They work, but my 1911's work. When they have been around as long as my Star Super proof stamped in 1949 and still functioning then I will consider them as competition to a 1911. As stated they are OK, high capacity, light, and popular but not anything more in my eyes.

I think you hit it square on the head with your comments. I don't consider it to be competition for the 1911. It's just way too different. But the bottom line is, it's lighter, has a higher magazine capacity and it just works. I definitely don't think the Glock is as enjoyable to shoot as even my low end 1911, but I still like it.

[Lloyd Smale]

1911s are my first love. Theres just something about them. That said if you think an out of the box 1911 is as reliable as a glock you haven't fired enough rounds out of both of them to even comment. All of my guns get a initial 500 round test. Reloaded cast bullets shot without clean or oiling (other then an initial pull down and oil). Ive yet to have a glock fail the test and its a rare 1911 that does 500 without a bobble of any kind. Now sure some will say that's a severe test. Nobody is going to not clean a gun in 500 rounds that's going to depend on it to protect themselves and yes I will agree. But I can name at least a half a dozen 1911s I owned that didn't even make the first mag or two. Problem a lot of times is the original 1911s were a loose built gun. Made to keep running in harsh enviorments. Most today are just the opposite. Everyone wants a tightly fit gun that's accurate. Most don't understand that you don't find many both accurate and reliable 1911s for under 800 bucks. Do a fair comparison and compare a 500 dollar 1911 to a glock instead of comparing a 1200 dollar gun that costs twice as much. Ill even go so far as to say a glock is JUST as reliable as ANY 1911 at any price. Now its not competition to a 1911. To me both are totally different guns bought for totally different purposes. The 1911s go to the range and are taken to competitions but on my bed stand theres a glock, in my glove box in the truck and jeep theres a a glock. Why? Because no matter how long they sit. No matter how dirty they get and theres no stupid safetys on them. No matter if I drop it in a mud puddle leaving the truck its going to go bang when I pull the trigger.

[WebMonkey]

My glock 26 doesn't get make me ooh and ahh like the other firearms I own. It is, however, the one clipped to my hip every time I head to the rec property.
No deliberation, it goes.
;)
'Monkey

[dualsport]

[QUOTE=WebMonkey;3696910]My glock 26 doesn't get make me ooh and ahh like the other firearms I own. It is, however, the one clipped to my hip every time I head to the rec property.
No deliberation, it goes.
;)
Ditto here. I have some real good guns. My 'down and dirty night time hasta work gun' is a used Glock 22 police trade in. Reliable as it gets.

[osteodoc08]

While I'd like a SBR with suppressor, I still wouldn't buy a glock.

Now a nice Sig, sure, I'm game.

[FergusonTO35]

Don't worry, you too will join the collective at some point.

171457

[jmort]

"Don't worry, you too will join the collective at some point."

No, for sure not. But I am happy for those who can tolerate/love their Glocks.

[therealhitman]

shoot one enough and the ugly goes away.

And I hear the grilled cheese even gets better!




Wait...what?

[osteodoc08]

Don't worry, you too will join the collective at some point.

171457


Let me rephrase. I wouldn't buy a glock to have a lower for that conversion, I find others more attractive.

I currently own a few glocks, notably a model 20
and 31. I will eventually add a 19, but find my M&P line a bit better and have them in 9, 40, 45 as well as a shield in 9mm.

[Lloyd Smale]

you can find just lowers for sale on gun broker or guns america

[6bg6ga]

Some would say that once you buy a Glock you will buy another one. I can say that about my 1911's as a own a bunch of them or maybe I should say they own me. I was bullied into buying a Glock 23 by my son. I got tired of hearing him tell me about the increased capacity of the glock over my 1911 officers model and finally threw in the towel and bought it. I hate the damn triggers on them. You pull and you pull and finally you hit a point where resistance is felt and then another 1/2 inch or so and it finally goes bang. Can't say that about my 1911's with their almost 3lb trigger pulls I should have said their CRISP trigger pulls. My son always told me that someday I might have to use the gun I carry and I should have something that holds over 6 or 7 rounds and my answer has always been that if I happened to run out of ammunition I would simply throw the 1911 at the person and run like hell. My thought has always been that if I ran out of ammo without taking the attacker down I wasn't much of a shot and I shouldn't be carrying in the first place.About that increased capacity of the Glock..... I have been used to shooting a clip in my 1911's and then ejecting the clip and popping in a new clip a fairly easy thing to do especially when one has been doing it for years, right? Shooting the Glock and well i've passed 7 rounds and when in the hell is the clip going to be empty so I can eject it? Still firing and soon it should be empty, right? Still firing and now I'm too the end and I can finally eject that clip and put in another. Its simply not as much fun to shoot and shoot and shoot and wait! I've still got rounds left in the clip. Its just not right it just doesn't feel right to have more than 7 or eight rounds in a clip.

[dragon813gt]

I only own one Glock but it doesn't take "clips". Either does my 1911. Do you have some special models ;)

I have a G20 for woods carry. No one else offers a 10mm like it. Recently bought a 357 Sig barrel for it "just because". I own a Remington R1 because it's a loose gun. But it did not like cast bullets until I reamed the barrel throat. Neither of these platforms call to me. They are just tools at the end of day. Now my CZ 75s.....they are tools as well. But they call to me :)

[Walkingwolf]

Glocks are a factor in the pray and spray mentality.

[6bg6ga]

I stand corrected...magazines not clips......sorry

[dragon813gt]

Glocks are a factor in the pray and spray mentality.

The person pulling the trigger is the main factor in the spray and pray mentality.

[FergusonTO35]

I think that the spray and pray phenomenon is created by the collusion of gunmakers, so called experts, pop culture depictions of gunfights, and reports both documented and anecdotal of perps not stopped by rounds from six shot .38 revolvers. Add to all this the current tacticool fad that is sweeping both LE and gun culture and you have lots of folks who are likely to participate in a gunfight with lots of poorly aimed shots.

I usually carry my Glock 42, 6 shots of .380.

[Handloader109]

But it ain't worth the hassle of getting a $200 tax stamp for one. Got a friend that has one, shot it and it is fun, but not cheap even if you did not have to have a stamp and the wait.

[6bg6ga]

In moment of weakness I purchased a Glock 20 used. It was very accurate but generally it killed the brass. No stove pipes but it ejected so hard that it dented the brass. Dispite all that I had heard about the recoil of a 10mm I found that it was fun to shoot and easy to control. Probably should of kept that one as I 'm not fond of my model 23. I find that you have to grip it with the idea that you don't want it to torque to the right and it will shoot dead center 100% of the time.As someone mentioned in a earlier post is the glocks always fire when you pull the trigger.

[Lloyd Smale]

ill give that an amen. I know some real idiot shooters that have high dollar guns that I could throw rocks at a target at 15 yards and make more hits. I also know very knowlegable shooters who own high dollar 1911s and when they leave there house its a glock they have in there holster.
The person pulling the trigger is the main factor in the spray and pray mentality.

[Tackleberry41]

I got rid of the glocks I had, just didnt like them compared to all my other pistols, that grip angle. I kept one frame to put a mechtech upper on. Have considered buying the 80% frame being offered as it seems to solve all the 'glock ' issues.

[nagantguy]

Some would say that once you buy a Glock you will buy another one. I can say that about my 1911's as a own a bunch of them or maybe I should say they own me. I was bullied into buying a Glock 23 by my son. I got tired of hearing him tell me about the increased capacity of the glock over my 1911 officers model and finally threw in the towel and bought it. I hate the damn triggers on them. You pull and you pull and finally you hit a point where resistance is felt and then another 1/2 inch or so and it finally goes bang. Can't say that about my 1911's with their almost 3lb trigger pulls I should have said their CRISP trigger pulls. My son always told me that someday I might have to use the gun I carry and I should have something that holds over 6 or 7 rounds and my answer has always been that if I happened to run out of ammunition I would simply throw the 1911 at the person and run like hell. My thought has always been that if I ran out of ammo without taking the attacker down I wasn't much of a shot and I shouldn't be carrying in the first place.About that increased capacity of the Glock..... I have been used to shooting a clip in my 1911's and then ejecting the clip and popping in a new clip a fairly easy thing to do especially when one has been doing it for years, right? Shooting the Glock and well i've passed 7 rounds and when in the hell is the clip going to be empty so I can eject it? Still firing and soon it should be empty, right? Still firing and now I'm too the end and I can finally eject that clip and put in another. Its simply not as much fun to shoot and shoot and shoot and wait! I've still got rounds left in the clip. Its just not right it just doesn't feel right to have more than 7 or eight rounds in a clip.

your pistols.take clips, like the high capacity amunition magazine clips the fellows.on the news talk.about, aren't those bad and just kill people all the time by themselves for no reason at all?

[WebMonkey]

clips are the coolest. I read that in a magazine.
:)
'monkey

[tygar]

When i'm hanging out at the gunshop and people ask about the glock I am not afraid to give my opinion. They are ugly, grip angle is wrong and made of plastic. They also always go bang, are not expensive, fairly light and I can cut the center out of the target with one. That being said I just don't really like them. I finally found a reason to buy one. .

Not enough reason for me!

[modified5]

I have a Glock 23. Got a decent enough deal on it that I just had to have it.
It is admitantly one of my most accurate hand guns. Not counting my Contender of course. :-)
If I just draw and shoot my first shots are always high due to the grip angle.
As soon as I remember to rotate my wrist down its deadly.
In a defensive situation I would need to at least remember to shoot a little low for the first couple.
Because of that I quit carrying it. My muscle memory is all 1911 grip angle. If it doesn't have that I won't carry it.
I've thought about selling it but my hoarder tendencies just won't let me. :-)

[6bg6ga]

nagantguy, I have the high capacity magazines. Anything is possible with one of those. They have been known to automatically insert themselves into a Glock all by themselves cock the semiautomatic transferring it immediately to full automatic with tendencies to automatically select targets at random. This is the reason they wish to ban all high capacity magagines as they don't have this problem when a mag under 10 rounds is employed.

[6bg6ga]

modified5, I wish I could say my 23 was the most accurate hand gun that I own. Unfortunately I have a number of 1911's that are extremely accurate have a much better trigger pull and are more fun to shoot. My 20 was accurate my 23 isn't. Even with a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel in it a source of embarrasment.

[Lloyd Smale]

I sure wouldn't list any of my glocks past or present as the most accurate handgun ive owned or even in the top 20. That's not what there made for. Yes I know some shoot them in competition but you can drag race a pinto too with enough work. there made for combat and are plenty combat accurate right out of the box.

[bruce drake]

https://robarguns.com/custom-weapons/handguns/custom-glocks/

This company offers backstraps to change the grip angle of the Glock to match the 1911A1...Might even get me to consider adding a plastic gun to my collection.

Bruce

[FergusonTO35]

I think it is more appropriate to compare a factory stock configuration Glock to another factory stock configuration combat pistol in it's price range. This would include the S&W M&P, Ruger SR and American, Springfield XD, and the cheaper offerings from Sig Sauer. Against these the Glock is very competitive, ultimately the user should pick what works best for them.

Yes, a 1911 set up by someone who knows what they are doing will crush a Glock or any of the aforementioned pistols on the target range. The same thing will happen when you enter a Cat D11 in a demolition derby. What is the point, exactly?

[pmer]

I think Glock could be more consistent with their triggers in how they break. I bet if a guy could shoot 5 of any model 2 or 3 of them would print like you were shooting 12 ga. buck shot. I won't buy another it's too much of a gamble.

[Potsy]

I've never shot a Glock that didn't hit reasonably well for me. Some VERY well.
I've almost bought one several times and still think about it.
Then I pick up my Kimber (even with it's crappy MIM parts and external extractor) and think "What's a Glock?"

The ergos and the trigger just don't do it for me. I've never noted that a Glock was any more reliable than an equally maintained 1911. Outside of their .380's, they tend to be "big" (lay a compact Glock on top of a Govt. 1911 and you'll see what I mean) and, frankly, I fail to sense any "cool factor" coming off a Glock. It's like a really nice hammer. It's still just a hammer.

Like big gals or skinny chicks, whatever dings your bell...........

[Lloyd Smale]

same could be said about weight but the other way. A fully loaded 23 weights about the same as a fully loaded 1911 but the glock has twice the ammo in it. Then in comparison with a glock and a 1911 good enough to REALLY claim its just as reliable you need to do one more thing. Sit two glocks down on the table one for you and one for your wife because you no doubt paid at least a grand for that flawless 1911 and you can buy two glocks for that kind of money.

I have allways loved 1911s and allways will but will be the first to tell someone if all they have to spend is 500 bucks or even a 100 bucks more don't waste your money on a 1911. Buy a glock or an m&p or something similar. For your 500 bucks your at least buying a gun that goes bang everytime instead one your swapping parts out and filing on parts trying to get it to run. Now I'm sure someone here is going to jump right in and say there Philippine or Chinese 600 dollar 1911 runs perfect. But by 5 of them and see if all 5 run perfect. Buy 20 glocks and I can about bet my home that they will all run just fine.

I love 1911s, I cant say that enough! But if your not a gunsmith, don't have at least 800 bucks or cant score a steel on a lightly used gun your money is better spent on black. Even at that price range theres compromise. Ive probably owned a dozen 1911s in that range and either you get a reliable (slightly loose) gun or your get a accurate (tight) gun but seldom both and if you find one its like the holy grail. Funny thing is anymore for the most part my 1911s stay home and the black guns go to the range. I guess I kind of look at it like why beat the **** out of a nice gun when I can have just as much fun with a gun that costs half as much money to replace and is less likely to break in the first place.

I guess the nicest thing about them to me is I'm retired now and have a limited budget. The days of having two custom 6 gun projects in the works at the same time are OVER! Its a lot easier for me to come up with 500 buck then it is to come up with a grand. So they allow me the fun of getting a new gun (that's a good gun) and playing having fun with it. It also allowed me to buy my two daughters and wife a gun for there purse and that sue wouldn't have happened if they were 800 bucks a piece.

That brings me to this point. SMALL GUNS. You can make an arugment that your full sized 1911 is reliable and maybe a good one is just as reliable as a glock or m&P or sig. You might not get an argument out of me on that. But when you talk about something like a officers model compared to a 43 glock or an M&P shield and claim your officers gun you paid 600 bucks for is just as reliable I'm going to laugh in your face. Ive been there and done that. Ive even had one good officers sized gun. A cdp Kimber. But your looking at 1200 bucks to put one in your holster or purse. I can buy a ruger lc9 for less then 400 bucks that will run right along side ANY officers or even commander sized 1911 that cost 3 times as much. Yup it doesn't have the cool factor and is ugly but ive yet to see a competition with handguns that judges looks!! I learned one thing that took years to beat into my head. When it comes to wives and guns low maintenance trumps high maintenance lookers every time and cost you a lot less in the long run.

[FergusonTO35]

+1, Lloyd. I'm one of those weirdos who actually likes the Glock grip angle. In my hands it feels similar to the muzzle up hold of an S&W revolver and counteracts my natural urge to flinch.

BTW, the Pinto was a very successful drag racer back in the day, heavily modded of course.

[Potsy]

Perhaps I was being a bit harsh......

I'd not feel undergunned with a Glock. I've shot some that I shoot nearly as well as my Kimber (bear in mind, this is me doing the shooting) and my Brother In Law's full size .357 Sig (don't remember the model) is a laser. I don't doubt that a Glock is at least as reliable as a 1911, possibly more so when compared to lower end 1911's that haven't broken in yet, but I've seen Glocks jam too (I've got a couple bud's that nearly refuse to oil theirs' occasionally).

I will confess, that if I were EXTREMELY hard on my gear, a Glock in a plastic holster would be the way I'd go, not so much out of reliability, but I'd have conscience being that rough on a nice 1911 and good leather. It's not the Glock's ability to go bang and put a bullet where it needs to be that I have any kind of issue with, my gun money is my play money, and I have a tough time justifying spending it on something that doesn't fill the need while satisfying my sense of aesthetics and ergonomics, which, are always very personal.

All that said, I'd not be surprised if someday, I didn't own a 43 and MAYBE a 30 (even though it's "big").

The one thing I forgot to mention in my above post, is I did fondle one of the Glock chassis/carbines last week. They are Glock ugly, but they do have a bit of "cool factor" about them.....:-)

[6bg6ga]

A 1911 for $800? I don't have a one. Mine are in the $1600.00 range. My Officers 1911 in stainless that I purchased back in the 80's is the cheapest 1911 I own and while it function less than flawlessly when I purchased it new I did make it into something reliable that I could carry. The thing is to feel really safe I need a second magazine. Accuracy wise it will smoke my model 23 and its trigger is top notch. I will start carrying it again instead of the Glock 23.

[Lloyd Smale]

I had a officers sized cdp Kimber and a pro cdp that is a officers grip frame with a commander barrel. Both of those were good guns. Were they as reliable as a glock? Well probably not but they were none the less reliable enough I trusted them as carry guns. those two guns would shoot right along side my gold cup colt and my gold match kimbers. Especially the little officers sized one. It shot so well that the guy I sold it to used it in ppc matches and did real well. Either of those guns shot groups half the size of my best shooting glock loads. But do you really need one inch 25 yard groups in a carry gun? Reliability trumps everything in a carry gun. It trumps accuracy and it trumps power and it trumps mag capacity. Id rather have a 9mm that shot 4 inch 25 yard groups groups with a 3 shot mag that went bang EVERY time then a 20 shot 45 that shot 1/2 inch groups but failed every 50 rounds.

That's were I find beauty in a glock, M&P, sig or H&K. Every time I pull the trigger theres a hole in the target and a new round waiting in the chamber. I especially like them when they have NO SAFETY. Just pick them up or draw them from a holster and pull the trigger and feel confident what I point it at will have a hole in it. Confident that if I take it to camp and shoot 3 or 4 hundred rounds out of it I can still stick it in my holster without cleaning it and be confident its still going to go bang if I need it on the way home. Confident I can throw it in the console of my truck or jeep and let it sit for 2 years and pull it out and it still will go bang and feed the next round even after the lube has dried up long ago and the dust and dirt have had there way with it. Confident that if it got banged around and scratched up in that console I wouldn't be crying because my 1500 dollar beautiful 1911 is dinged up. If anything those scratches would give the glock some character.

[FergusonTO35]

One of the biggest things I like about my Glocks is that they are identical save for physical dimensions and caliber. The same grip and shooting habits work equally well on all three. I can't stand how some gunmakers feel the need to completely reinvent a gun just to add some updates or a new size or caliber. If Glock had taken Ruger's approach, the 42 and 43 would be double action only with a totally different grip angle and mechanical design than the others. The generation 4 pistols would have been a completely different product than generations 1-3, not even able to share magazines.

[Walkingwolf]

I paid $130 for my Star Super A, it has never failed to fire or eject, and it shoots 2 inch groups off hand at 10 yards. I have about $300 dollars in my Essex 1911 built with mil spec parts, including a STOCK military barrel, it also has never failed to eject, or feed. I have owned numerous 1911's over the years with outstanding reliability, and accuracy including surplus Colts from South America.

The only reason that some 1911's have feeding problems is that the shooter paid too much for the 1911, it was never intended to be a target gun. It was intended to be a handgun for the US Calvary. Built as it should be, slightly loose(just like the Glock) it will be reliable. And because of the design of the link, and bushing accurate as well. I never had any 1911 shoot offhand over 3 inch groups at 10 yards. Cannot say the same for my Glocks, they are an embarrassment compared to my 67 year old Star. Both the Essex, and the Star will shoot below 2 inch groups from a rest at 25 yards. The Star is my wife's absolute favorite because of the accuracy, feel, and grip.

Even my PA-63 is wayyyy more accurate than a Glock, and also never has had a feed or eject problem. But I did have a frame rail break on a brand new Glock 22 I bought for the wife after only 10 factory rounds. Most likely a fluke, but a fluke I have never had happen with a 1911.

[dragon813gt]

I'm sort of laughing at the "Glocks aren't accurate" comments. Is it the pistol or the shooter? I'd be willing to bet it's the shooter in almost all circumstances. Put one in the hand of someone who's never shot a 1911 and they will learn to shoot it well. Muscle memory is most likely the cause of poor accuracy. I am not saying a Glock is a target pistol. But they aren't inherently inaccurate either.

[Walkingwolf]

I'm sort of laughing at the "Glocks aren't accurate" comments. Is it the pistol or the shooter? I'd be willing to bet it's the shooter in almost all circumstances. Put one in the hand of someone who's never shot a 1911 and they will learn to shoot it well. Muscle memory is most likely the cause of poor accuracy. I am not saying a Glock is a target pistol. But they aren't inherently inaccurate either.

It is not that it is not accurate, just that it is not bullseye accurate. Due to it's design, and lack of bushing it never will be. If a shooter like my wife can punch out bullseyes all day with a 67 year old gun, and Glock will not do it from a ransom rest, I would say it is the Glock. Acceptable accuracy depends on the shooter. If a police officer has to shoot a kidnapper who is holding a hostage and shoots the hostage that is NOT acceptable accuracy. BTW that did happen, the officer shot the young lady in the head while aiming at the perp, he was using a Glock.

[dragon813gt]

So it's the Glocks fault that he didn't shoot properly? I understand that what happened is a tragedy. But you can't blame that on the pistol. It's the person aiming and pulling the trigger that's to blame.

They are not and never will be a bullseye gun. So there is no point comparing them to one. I guess that's what's bothering me.

I don't really like Glocks. And I don't like 1911s either. I think they are both over hyped. I shoot CZ75 variants a lot better than either one. So I have no dog in this fight. I just don't understand why people insist on comparing them to a completely different platform.

[Walkingwolf]

If you only have a 1 inch window to save a life, and the equipment is only capable of a 3 inch window, and the cop has been told that his gun is accurate. YES it is Glock's fault.

This falsehood on accuracy of an inaccurate gun for certain tasks is stupid, and dangerous. All officers using this type of gun should be trained that the gun is inaccurate for extreme accuracy tasks. Instead Glock, and departments push the falsehood that Glocks are accurate. If you only need to hit a paper plate they are, if you need to hit a playing card they clearly are not.

I would never carry a Glock while with a loved one, it is the only time that situation could happen for me. Hopefully it never does, I doubt I would take that shot for someone I did not know. So a Glock is OK for the rest of carry needs.

[dragon813gt]

The Glock did not pull it's own trigger. I understand your point. But at the end of day it's not the Glocks fault.

[Walkingwolf]

The Glock did not pull it's own trigger. I understand your point. But at the end of day it's not the Glocks fault.
Glock advertises their guns as perfect, as well as accurate. They leave the false impression the gun is capable of more than it is. Yes it is their fault IMO. The officer was attempting to save a life with faulty equipment for the task.

[zubrato]

I have one glock 19, and it is my first and probably last glock.

The trigger one mine has been broken in through many many thousands of rounds, mostly cast.
It sits in my holster while sweat trickles in on hot summer days, and has never once shown any hint of rust, unlike my 442.
I've thrown it in mud, let it freeze in snow, and it has never hiccuped let alone malfunctioned.
A glock is a glock is a glock, and mine is so darn good for what it's purpose I can't even imagine an alternate universe where I would choose to carry anything other than my glock 19 when situation permits.
I feel the same way about my AR15 for home defense.
No nonsense tools. They're not the beautiful target pistol people want to make it to be, so if you hate it for that, you are the one who is wrong.
First and foremost it is a tool, and it works exactly as intended.

I don't need more glocks because one serves my purposes so perfectly, I can only imagine another if this one is destroyed beyond recognition.

I see buying multiple glocks the same way as owning 4-5 microwaves. My revolvers and bolt actions are the best range toys I could ask for, my glock is the best carry pistol I could ask for.

[jmort]

"I just don't understand why people insist on comparing them to a completely different platform."

Correct in all regards. Different brands, different guns, get what you want. I get the whole Glock/1911 thing, but I don't get arguing or proselytizing a particular brand/model. Most people really like their CZ 75s but I never/rarely see them arguing that you must get one and that they are better than other guns. If you like your Glock/1911, you can keep your Glock/1911. Glad you are happy.

[dragon813gt]

Glock advertises their guns as perfect, as well as accurate. They leave the false impression the gun is capable of more than it is. Yes it is their fault IMO. The officer was attempting to save a life with faulty equipment for the task.

Perfection is a tag line for advertising purposes. It's the same as Ram's slogan of "longest lasting pickup". Accuracy is a fairly vague term and everyone is going to have a different definition. Every manufacturer touts their products as being accurate. Who isn't going to do this? To claim anything else would be a foolish move on the manufacturer's part.

The Glock was not faulty. The officer pulled the trigger and a bullet came out the barrel at high speed. Nothing was faulty w/ the pistol. The officer should have known what the pistol was capable of in his hands. He took the shot so he was apparently confident in his abilities w/ the pistol.

Blaming the pistol is exactly what the antis do. I won't deny that it's a horrible tragedy. But I won't let a tool be blamed for someone's actions. Doesn't matter whose name is on the side of it. The person pulling the trigger is to blame.

[Lloyd Smale]

difference is Glocks work and sell and ruger for years has been trying to come up with a way to make them cheaper and still work as well and for the most part have a ways to go yet. I will say the lc9 is about there best attempt at it though.
One of the biggest things I like about my Glocks is that they are identical save for physical dimensions and caliber. The same grip and shooting habits work equally well on all three. I can't stand how some gunmakers feel the need to completely reinvent a gun just to add some updates or a new size or caliber. If Glock had taken Ruger's approach, the 42 and 43 would be double action only with a totally different grip angle and mechanical design than the others. The generation 4 pistols would have been a completely different product than generations 1-3, not even able to share magazines.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess to the accuracy ill say this. Ive had a number of 1911s that would out of the box shoot one inch 25 yard groups. The best ive ever seen out of glock is twice that size and even at 2 inch 25 yards its a rare out of the box glock that will shoot like that. Most I have and have had are 3 inch guns with loads they like. So just like me saying that you will never convince me across the board 1911s are as reliable as glocks youll also never convince me that glocks are as accurate as 1911s.

[Potsy]

Given the adrenaline, movement and emotion involved in the whole "human shield/hostage/kidnapper" scenario, I'd make the statement that there are VERY few people (cop or not) who could successfully pull off a head shot, with any weapon, even at close range.
I wouldn't want anyone that would take a gunmaker's word that their gun is accurate to mean that they will be accurate with that gun, to take that shot if I'm the hostage. Of course, I've talked myself out of a couple tight spots............:mrgreen:

[tygar]

Given the adrenaline, movement and emotion involved in the whole "human shield/hostage/kidnapper" scenario, I'd make the statement that there are VERY few people (cop or not) who could successfully pull off a head shot, with any weapon, even at close range.

I usually don't get involved in these type of discussions...but; most of the people I hang with can easily put one in the melon at 25yds, & a lot could put it between the mustache & eyebrows. Hell, even my wife could do it back when she was shooting.

Where things get sticky is when the bad guy is hiding behind the hostage & only a small portion of the head & one eye are showing. That is where you sure better be carrying your accuracy carry gun. Yet even that shot is doable at 30'.

All this is predicated on you carrying a firearm that is capable of the accuracy needed at whatever range the tough shot is at.

The big thing that Potsy is intimating is the "good guy" being mentally able to make the shot. Most of us that have been shot at & have handled combat go on auto pilot & don't get shakes etc until its over. It takes one of these guys, with the right skill set & weapon to do this, but my point is there are lots of us out there, but not necessarily where the problem arises or with the right equipment, at the right time & place.

If its like now, summer & i'm in shorts with a pocket LC9 or S&W airweight, it would be a very iffy thing, but if carrying any of my normal carry 45s, not that hard. (well at 70 I can't see the sights so good, so if not wearing shooting bi-focals I can't do it now)

Lots of variables but mainly, we, the sheepdogs, are not usually there when this type thing happens.

We used to practice barricade shooting with pistols/revolvers/ARs at various distances etc & found most could make good head shots consistently out to 10yds even with movement & position shooting. With obstructed head shots it drops off. The ARs were better but there were guys who could compete fairly evenly out to 25yds against the ARs (iron sites only), optics changes everything.

Point is, there are lots of guys, & with Iraq & Afgan, young guys, that can do it, but unfortunately we usually arn't there.

[Outpost75]

I'm still waiting for them to bring out a Webley-Fosbery semi-automatic revolver-carbine with interchangeable cylinders to accept either .38-40 or .40 S&W with full-moon clips, with 6" barrel, light rail, built in laser, folding bayonet and holster-stock.

If I wear my Darth Vader helmet, full suit of leathers, gloves and motorcycle boots it will incapacitate the BLMers with laughter and give me the advantage to sneak up on 'em becuz as long as I keep my Honky mouth shut, I can step out of my Blues Brothers Tactical Cadillac and they will mistake me for a homey!

[pmer]

I've kinda wondered about the stories of people swearing off of Glocks because they have troubles with accuracy, grip angle, sights and trigger etc. Brass to the face and so on. I still have a G19 and a G30 and shooting those two I could not figure out why there is a constant and steady roar about any combination of issues from Glocks. Because these two work good and shoot decent. But after I had a gen 4 G40 come and go I'm glad to say I'm off the Glock bus.

Long slide Glocks aren't cheap compared to a gen 3 G30 and I had certain expectations for hunting and woods carry but the break was bad, stayed bad and never got better after break in. I could have dumped money into it but got I rid of it for a Ruger Alaskan and almost doubled my effective range. I'd rather have 6 confident shots than the alternative. For CCW I haven't carried a Glock for long a time. I'd rather have a J frame or my hammer fired Bodygaurd.

I'm not trying to sell anyone off Glocks but there are shorter paths to successful shooting in my opinion. The difference in trigger break from my G19 to that G40 was not a lot but enough to make me think that with manufacturing tolerances that either one would pass factory inspection and it became easier for me to understand the complaints from people. I use the JM stance, I know about natural point of aim and calling shots and a mutt is a mutt. The Glocks I've shot get fussy past 20 yards and a 1911 is still going strong well past that distance too.

[Lloyd Smale]

The Glocks I've shot get fussy past 20 yards and a 1911 is still going strong well past that distance too. You probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening as a civilian then needing to shoot someone out past 20 yards. Chances are pretty good that if you do shoot someone that far away your going to be in court yourself. I also have to ask if the da trigger pull on a tiny little 2 inch da revolver is any easier to control then the 7-8lb trigger on a glock. I will also say that standing on my two feet and shooting at a 25 yard target I cant match a 1911 using one of my glocks but I sure can shoot better then I do with a da snubby.

[Walkingwolf]

A snubby is capable of the same accuracy of a 8 inch revolver if the shooter is capable. A glock is not capable of matching even the snubby.

Most people would never be in the tight spot to take high precision shots to save lives. Police officers are, and the Glock is inadequate for those tasks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

[Lloyd Smale]

sure it is possible to hit with a snubby at long range. In Bob mundens hands. The rest of us normal shooters not so much. He can shoot a dime out of the air too, I CANT! By the way. I'm a fair shooter. Just not a fantasic shooter like him, few are. For the most part I don't ever remember getting beat in any shooting comp ive entered by a police officer shooting the match. Been beat by other civilians though. Most police officers are far from competent enough to stand calmly in the heat of a gun fight and put precise shots down range. Most ive seen aren't even competent enough to do it at a local pin shoot or ppc shoot.

For an example our local sherrifs dept has just enough ammo for the crew to qualify once a year. that's about 50 rounds per man per year. I shoot that off my back porch in a week. Id have to ask if there is some superiority with a snub nosed revolver over a glock in combat why our police force carrys guns like glocks. Why doesn't our army arm our soldiers with snubbys? Because they don't hold a candle to a glock or sig in ANY firefight. They are a backup last ditch gun.

I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice for a ccw gun. It does fair for that. But it surely is not any better then something like a 43 glock or a smith shield. Both are just as reliable, just as real world accurate and hold more rounds.

Theres a reason police forces don't use revolvers anymore. Same reason they don't use galaxy 500s and Plymouth furys for police cars. There more modern better choices. But I'm sure Jimmy Johnson could wax my but in one of them with me driving my vette. What does that prove.

Ill also add that id bet my house bob went through MANY snub nosed smiths to find the ones he uses in those shooting demonstrations. He also probably did a lot of load development to find loads and bullets that would stay stable out that far. IF you doubt that's a challenge take your very accurate model 15 smith and shoot it at 25 yards then out at just a 100 and see how many of your loads stay stable.

[Walkingwolf]

The AF did arm pilots with snubbys, and many many police depts issued snubbys. Not all police officers are poor shooters, there are many legends that wore a badge such Bill Jordan, and Tom Threepersons who both did their job with~wait for it~ revolvers.

Police depts have substituted accuracy training for a gun that is easy to shoot and holds a lot of ammo. It encourages sloppy marksmanship. There is something about having six, or five rounds to get the job done that changes attitudes. As far as Bob Munden, that shot would have been impossible with a Glock. Glock is good for easy to shoot, holding a lot of ammo, but it is woefully inaccurate. Sorry if that hurts the fanboys feelings.

[Plate plinker]

A snubby is capable of the same accuracy of a 8 inch revolver if the shooter is capable. A glock is not capable of matching even the snubby.

Most people would never be in the tight spot to take high precision shots to save lives. Police officers are, and the Glock is inadequate for those tasks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

Hogwash what nonsense.

Nothing has ever been killed with a Glock everybody knows that!

I once had a 23 i didn't like that much, now I own 6 Glocks. Wake up to reality they do shoot and do so reliably.

[Walkingwolf]

Hogwash what nonsense.

Nothing has ever been killed with a Glock everybody knows that!

I once had a 23 i didn't like that much, now I own 6 Glocks. Wake up to reality they do shoot and do so reliably.

And so does many other platforms, and they do it better than Glock. Stop drinking the Glock kool-aid. Service 1911's, Sigs, among many other designs are reliable, and more accurate than a Glock. If Brown Bess accuracy is OK for Glock owners I have no problem with that. But stop putting down other platforms, and making claims that are not true. Glocks fail, just like any other handgun.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup sigs might (MIGHT) be a bit more accurate but there no more reliable and cost twice as much. Same goes for a H&K at 3 or times as much. Take a look at pin shooting these days or IPSA competition and see how many glocks are on the line. About the only thing you have to do to cut accuracy in half is put a 75 dollar trigger kit in one. Compare an out of the box 700 dollar 1911 with a 500 dollar glock for accuracy when they both have 2.5 lb triggers and youll find the gap closes very fast. If your getting brown bess accuracy with a glock then you need a bit more range time.

AF and police issued snubbys to guys that they new would carry them all the time and rarely pull them out. To this day nothing is lighter or easier to conseal then an alloy snubby. Doesn't make them a good combat gun by a long shot. The AF no longer issues them and I don't know of a police force that still issues snubbys to anyone. Again were talking back in the day of Plymouth satellite pursuit cars.

In one breath your claiming that not all police officers are bad shooters and then turn around and say they teach spray and hope to there troops. Ill have to agree with the first statement because even not all fireman, teachers or lineman are bad shooters. The second statement ill say your blowing smoke. If anything they teach more DONT shoot at all anymore. They sure don't teach them to empty there mag at someone! The poor marksmanship comes from there budgets that have been reduced so much that they cant afford practice ammo. Just like they cant afford to provide back up guns. Its so bad here that our local sheriff comes to my house to pick up practice ammo for his guys so they can get out every two or three months instead of once a year. Heck the state troopers were there sidearm on the left side and there tazer where there gun should be.

Ill add this because its one of the departments I know everyone personally. Our local sheriffs dept will issue 40sw sigs and gives them the option of buying there own gun if the sheriff approves of it and all of the except two uses a glock 22. The two exceptions are a lady trooper who carry's one of the originally 9mm sigs they still had and the under sheriff that carry's a 357 sig glock. Now I don't know why as in my opinion the sig is just as good and they can get them for free but it was there choice and that's what they choose. I know some chose to buy there own because there was less chance of pay or manning cuts if they dept didn't have to buy firearms to shoot there one box of shells that's issued for there qualifications. My nephew works in the city police at a town nearby and buying his gun was mandatory when he got hired.

[garym1a2]

Sigs are merely overrated. While reliable, accurate and expensive they also have a high bore axis and most cant shoot them fast and accurate. Having shot 3gun and USPA with Glocks for the last 5 years I can tell you they are fast and accurate enough. I have no problem getting a high Alpha count with either my Glock22 or 35. for many years the Glock 34 ruled action shooting sports. Only recently being upended by the CX75 shadow. For a carry gun my Gen3 G19 is very good and is also easy to shoot. For a bedside gun my G21SF does the job, 13 Rounds of 45 ACP.

[jmort]

"Sigs are greatly overrated"

Don't own a Sig, but "greatly overrated" seems to be a ill-conceived statement. Is it possible they are merely "overrated" ????? From what I have seen, a lot of "operators" do not share your opinion, and in fact feel the exact opposite. But what would they know? They just do things us mere mortals can only dream of. They like Glocks too.

[zubrato]

Lol hold on is this argument seriously drifting towards the need for a pistol to make 50 yard head shots on a head obscured by the hostages head...?

Back to reality, this is why police departments have snipers for exactly this situation, because they can better observe with good glass, and can make that CNS hit when necessary and coordinated with the rest of the officers.

If you're bench resting firearms and checking accuracy at 50 and 75 yards, OK it's a cute figure and we agree some designs are more accurate than others.

Establishing carry pistol criteria to include 50 yard hostage obscured head shots is also missing a vampire/werewolf contingency plan.

[pmer]

I didn't mean mix and match woods carry with average CCW distances. Most of us will never have to deploy their CCW anyways, I hope I never have to and will try to avoid it even if it gets that close.

[Walkingwolf]

It's amazing how a fanboy will always make an excuse for lack of accuracy. "Ohhh you will never need an accurate gun" or "A Glock is accurate enough"

But it is not accurate enough for me for a carry gun, I expect excellence, not faux claims of perfection. If Glock is going to advertise perfection, then it damn well better be perfect. Next we will hear that using a Glock will make you grow wings. IMO Glocks are the bell bottom pants of the sixties.

[Plate plinker]

Well I agree with some of the above post about the numbers used in matches. I used to compete in a lot of IPSC/USPSA and right there you will see what can run reliable and accurate. Sigs are accurate I suppose but we would see plenty of malfunctions. Maybe the shooter was at fault or bad ammo? Glocks just plain run very few stops with the Glock shooters. Just an observation that made me reevaluate the platform. Try shooting on the Michigan dune sand with most guns and its one stop after another while the Glock just keeps running. Bet your life on it yes you bet.

[garym1a2]

I fixed my post.
QUOTE=jmort;3704639]"Sigs are greatly overrated"

Don't own a Sig, but "greatly overrated" seems to be a ill-conceived statement. Is it possible they are merely "overrated" ????? From what I have seen, a lot of "operators" do not share your opinion, and in fact feel the exact opposite. But what would they know? They just do things us mere mortals can only dream of. They like Glocks too.[/QUOTE]

[DerekP Houston]

It's amazing how a fanboy will always make an excuse for lack of accuracy. "Ohhh you will never need an accurate gun" or "A Glock is accurate enough"

But it is not accurate enough for me for a carry gun, I expect excellence, not faux claims of perfection. If Glock is going to advertise perfection, then it damn well better be perfect. Next we will hear that using a Glock will make you grow wings. IMO Glocks are the bell bottom pants of the sixties.

I've never heard that glocks are the "most accurate", but I have heard the reliability claim quite often. As long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger, and I can conceal it, works for CCW for me. I have more issues with all the fancy tacticool and idiotic stuff jammed on with a lawyer safety and trigger pull.

Don't own a glock myself, but my good friend has one that has literally never been cleaned. Still goes bang every time at the range. I can't attribute any accuracy on his part as he rarely goes to the range, but it does what it is intended to do. If the price is right and I feel the urge, I'll scratch the itch and buy one. If not, 'taint no skin off my nose. Kinda like which flavor koolaid do you want, in a pinch anything is better than nasty houston tap water.

[Walkingwolf]

We have great tasting ole fashion well water. Can't beat what has always worked, and worked well.

[Lloyd Smale]

ill give that one an amen!
Lol hold on is this argument seriously drifting towards the need for a pistol to make 50 yard head shots on a head obscured by the hostages head...?

Back to reality, this is why police departments have snipers for exactly this situation, because they can better observe with good glass, and can make that CNS hit when necessary and coordinated with the rest of the officers.

If you're bench resting firearms and checking accuracy at 50 and 75 yards, OK it's a cute figure and we agree some designs are more accurate than others.

Establishing carry pistol criteria to include 50 yard hostage obscured head shots is also missing a vampire/werewolf contingency plan.

[Lloyd Smale]

no one here claimed they were the most accurate or even the best gun made. those are references you used.
But it is not accurate enough for me for a carry gun, I expect excellence, not faux claims of perfection.
You must be an amazing marksman and have some awfully high dollar 1911s. Glocks are not accurate enough for you to make a decent ccw gun but a snubby 38 special is just fine. Amazing all right. :rolleyes:

[Walkingwolf]

no one here claimed they were the most accurate or even the best gun made. those are references you used.
You must be an amazing marksman and have some awfully high dollar 1911s. Glocks are not accurate enough for you to make a decent ccw gun but a snubby 38 special is just fine. Amazing all right. :rolleyes:

I should be bothered, and feel sorry for your bruised feelings, but I am not. I carry most times a 67 year old Star Super capable of pinpoint accuracy. Glocks are fun to shoot, but that ends it for me, after the frame rail broke on a NEW Glock I do not even trust them for belly shooting defense. The one SD shooting I was in a S&W model 67 put two 38 spl in the heart of the armed robber, that was all that was needed. He dropped like a sack of potatoes. Yes I am a very good shot, I was able in my teens to hit a rabbit with a cap and ball revolver. And even that revolver is more accurate than a Glock. I have no problems with those who love Glocks, it is YOUR choice, but not mine.

Just don't try to blow smoke up my butt...

[Lloyd Smale]

The only reason that some 1911's have feeding problems is that the shooter paid too much for the 1911, it was never intended to be a target gun. It was intended to be a handgun for the US Calvary. Built as it should be, slightly loose(just like the Glock) it will be reliable. And because of the design of the link, and bushing accurate as well. I never had any 1911 shoot offhand over 3 inch groups at 10 yards. Cannot say the same for my Glocks, they are an embarrassment compared to my 67 year old Star. Both the Essex, and the Star will shoot below 2 inch groups from a rest at 25 yards. The Star is my wife's absolute favorite because of the accuracy, feel, and grip. and here your telling us that your accuracy standard is 3 inches at 10 yards. I can throw rocks that well. A star, an Essex and a rossi snubby is what ive gleamed you shoot. If this post was about wine youd be bragging on ripple. Give me a break. Bottom line is pal I can shoot ANY GLOCK ive ever owned at 10 yards and shoot 3 inch groups with any load I stick in it. If you cant you might want to practice a bit instead of bashing a gun you cant shoot. I don't shoot glocks for groups at 25 yards. Its shows me nothing for the way I use one. With one exception and that's my 20. Ive shot deer at 75 yards with it and it will shoot loads it likes into 2 inches at 25 yards all day. All that was done to it was drop in trigger parts that cost me 60 bucks. I had a wolf barrel in it for a while but the factory barrel shot cast better then the wolf. Ive owned over a dozen 1911s through the years and out of the box only a couple shot better then that glock and the ones that did were factory target guns like my gold cup and my Kimber gold match that cost north of a grand to buy. I'm done with this argument. Its like arguing with the wall. No need to blow smoke up your but its already coming out of your ears and the bs is coming out that hole. Now wheres my shovel

[Walkingwolf]

and here your telling us that your accuracy standard is 3 inches at 10 yards. I can throw rocks that well. A star, an Essex and a rossi snubby is what ive gleamed you shoot. Give me a break. Bottom line is pal I can shoot ANY GLOCK ive ever owned at 10 yards and shoot 3 inch groups with any load I stick in it. If you cant you might want to practice a bit instead of bashing a gun you cant shoot. I don't shoot glocks for groups at 25 yards. Its shows me nothing for the way I use one. With one exception and that's my 20. Ive shot deer at 75 yards with it and it will shoot loads it likes into 2 inches at 25 yards all day. All that was done to it was drop in trigger parts that cost me 60 bucks. I had a wolf barrel in it for a while but the factory barrel shot cast better then the wolf. Ive owned over a dozen 1911s through the years and out of the box only a couple shot better then that glock and the ones that did were factory target guns like my gold cup and my Kimber gold match that cost north of a grand to buy. I'm done with this argument. Its like arguing with the wall.

I expect better than 3 inch groups at that distance. A glock is good enough for you, but not I. Glad you are done, because what I carry is not up to you. BTW I hated bell bottom pants in the sixties, and did not wear them even though the weak minded loved them.

[pmer]

Just think how much striker fired lead and DAO lead flew by that cop killer in Dallas. I can't help but wonder if LE had firearms with better medium range capability even like the military DA/SA Berretta's if more of those police would have went home that night.

[tygar]

You probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening as a civilian then needing to shoot someone out past 20 yards. Chances are pretty good that if you do shoot someone that far away your going to be in court yourself. I also have to ask if the da trigger pull on a tiny little 2 inch da revolver is any easier to control then the 7-8lb trigger on a glock. I will also say that standing on my two feet and shooting at a 25 yard target I cant match a 1911 using one of my glocks but I sure can shoot better then I do with a da snubby.

Again, sorry, but I still have a 15-2 that will easily do it at 25 & my previous 19 & 66 2" would also. Site radius makes alignment more critical, but they can be very accurate.

[zubrato]

I'm done with this argument. Its like arguing with the wall. No need to blow smoke up your but its already coming out of your ears and the bs is coming out that hole. Now wheres my shovel


I'm out of this convo, Lloyd covered it perfectly.

One poster wants to create an echo chamber for his poor marksmanship with a popular semi auto pistol of modern production.

( 3" at 10 yards? At that range my G19 prints cloverleafs, and I regularly shoot credit card sized headshot groups at 25 for practice. Git gud, scrub.)

No one here is a fanboy, we all like different pistols, for fun or carry.

The final word is, you better be able to dance with whatever shoes you got on, and I don't care one bit what you think of mine.

Best wishes for you, and I sincerely hope whatever you think improves your aim actually does.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and a long 8-10lb da trigger pull makes sight alignment with a 2 in barrel pretty tough. I'm sure shooting off a bench using single action and a lot of consentration a snubby can print decent groups. But were talking standing on your own to feet in the stress of a combat situation. If you think your going to make consistent head shots with ANY handgun under those circumstances your down right amazing. My point in all of this is I could care less if my ccw gun shoots one inch 25 yard groups. I'm not going to shoot someone in the head at 25 yards and if you think you will then maybe you should change your name to walter mitty because your living in a dream world. What 99.9 percent of a civilians encounters that require using your gun are going to encompass will have distances measured in feet not yards.

It is not important what type of gun you have. Whats important is that when your really need it it goes bang period. I choose a deer hunting gun and load by shooting groups. Chances are it will be used out to a 100 yards and deer last I saw didn't shoot back. If someone is over 25 yards away chances are your going to be able to get out of dodge and that should allways be your first choice. If you think your going to stand right up and cock your revolver and concentrate on your sight picture and your trigger control while someone is dumping a mag at you your smoking crack! Your going to draw your weapon and if (ONLY IF) you put thousands of rounds down range, going to rely on muscle memory and instinct. I look at what military special forces and police depts with swat teams use. these people actually use there sidearms in close combat. there not range toys, or decorations they wear. Bottom line is a revolver of any kind is a rarity anymore other then MAYBE a last ditch backup gun. Sure is a pile of them wearing glocks and sigs and trust there lives to them and there opinion means more to me the someone who pots rabbits with a cap and ball revolver.
Again, sorry, but I still have a 15-2 that will easily do it at 25 & my previous 19 & 66 2" would also. Site radius makes alignment more critical, but they can be very accurate.

[jrayborn]

I enjoy the 1911 platform like no other. It has history, power and accuracy. Especially the history, to me that has always made it attractive and I own several. I also enjoy taking classes related to employing the handgun, carbine and shotgun. I like to learn and see what works for people. One thing I have learned through actual experience (both hands-on and visual observation) is that the "new-style" polymer pistols of most any make are as accurate and powerful as the 1911 style regardless of caliber or brand. The polymers have the advantage in capacity, weight, and reliability, by a large margin.

This is not a bash against any 1911, I just spent top dollar recently on a Dan Wesson, however it is heavy and has less capacity than similar sized polymer handguns. So far in my hands it is no more accurate than my glock in my hand but I am still in love with the 1911 platform. As a self defense handgun, there are better designs with better attributes. To deny this is folly, and may cost someone their life.

With all that, if you are comfortable with a 1911, and it works for you, then you are still well armed for sure. There is no denial that a 1911 is VERY capable, and completely adequate for self defense. I feel the same way about my Ruger LCR that I have on me, but there is better. It's very difficult not to let our emotions rule our opinions, as humans we are emotional people.

If you want to learn about handguns in a practical employment situation, consider taking some good training that actually teaches how to effectively employ a handgun where you are required to shoot 4-500 rounds (or more) over several days. I feel anyone who carries a handgun should do this. You will learn so much (even more perhaps if you bring an open mind) about how to use your handgun, and if you watch everyone else, you just may learn what works better than something else. Real world stuff...

[jmort]

"So far in my hands it is no more accurate than my glock..."

Stick the guns in the Ransom Rest and the difference is apparent. Put the guns in the hands of good/great shooters, and the difference is obvious. I don't own a Glock or 1911 but have seen the test results so there is no dispute here. Me personally, I probably could not shoot well enough to notice the difference, but many can.

[jrayborn]

Well it's kinda like carrying a cop... I don't carry a ransom rest either... I was only speaking for what you (or in reality I) can do with what we actually carry. I have good and bad days, but there is little practical accuracy difference when it counts.

[FergusonTO35]

Police depts have substituted accuracy training for a gun that is easy to shoot and holds a lot of ammo. It encourages sloppy marksmanship. There is something about having six, or five rounds to get the job done that changes attitudes. As far as Bob Munden, that shot would have been impossible with a Glock. Glock is good for easy to shoot, holding a lot of ammo, but it is woefully inaccurate. Sorry if that hurts the fanboys feelings.

On top of that, most agencies give the coppers no choice about their guns. The agency I worked for, nothing was allowed other than .40 and .45 caliber Glocks. The only backup gun authorized was the hard kicking little 27. If I was a cop I would take a S&W 10 loaded with wadcutters over anything .40 or .45 because I know I can at least put the somnolent wadcutters where they need to go.

[Frank V]

Heh, that's the nice thing about America (at least so far) we can choose to carry whatever we like except for Police. Often they are mandated such or such a gun. Been there didn't like the Glock at first, but came around when I found out how easy to get hits with it was & how reliable it is.
That's ok everyone don't use them, if you don't want but please forgive those of us who have found they are a great gun when you have to trust one for your life!:Fire:

[FergusonTO35]

I shoot a Glock as well as any other pistol and they always go bang. I usually am carrying my 26 or 42. All the arguments about other guns being more accurate are probably true. For me, they are also totally irrelevant. My fine motor skills and focus are not good enough to take advantage of them.

[Lloyd Smale]

quit being honest. God forbid it caught on here:bigsmyl2:
"So far in my hands it is no more accurate than my glock..."

Stick the guns in the Ransom Rest and the difference is apparent. Put the guns in the hands of good/great shooters, and the difference is obvious. I don't own a Glock or 1911 but have seen the test results so there is no dispute here. Me personally, I probably could not shoot well enough to notice the difference, but many can.

[tygar]

yup and a long 8-10lb da trigger pull makes sight alignment with a 2 in barrel pretty tough. I'm sure shooting off a bench using single action and a lot of consentration a snubby can print decent groups. But were talking standing on your own to feet in the stress of a combat situation. If you think your going to make consistent head shots with ANY handgun under those circumstances your down right amazing. My point in all of this is I could care less if my ccw gun shoots one inch 25 yard groups. I'm not going to shoot someone in the head at 25 yards and if you think you will then maybe you should change your name to walter mitty because your living in a dream world. What 99.9 percent of a civilians encounters that require using your gun are going to encompass will have distances measured in feet not yards.

It is not important what type of gun you have. Whats important is that when your really need it it goes bang period. I choose a deer hunting gun and load by shooting groups. Chances are it will be used out to a 100 yards and deer last I saw didn't shoot back. If someone is over 25 yards away chances are your going to be able to get out of dodge and that should allways be your first choice. If you think your going to stand right up and cock your revolver and concentrate on your sight picture and your trigger control while someone is dumping a mag at you your smoking crack! Your going to draw your weapon and if (ONLY IF) you put thousands of rounds down range, going to rely on muscle memory and instinct. I look at what military special forces and police depts with swat teams use. these people actually use there sidearms in close combat. there not range toys, or decorations they wear. Bottom line is a revolver of any kind is a rarity anymore other then MAYBE a last ditch backup gun. Sure is a pile of them wearing glocks and sigs and trust there lives to them and there opinion means more to me the someone who pots rabbits with a cap and ball revolver.

I am getting tired of your *** hole know it all BS! I wasn't disrespectful to you.

AND I'm really tired of AHs that have obviously never been in a gun fight telling us all about it.

YOU said snubbies were inaccurate - THEY ARE NOT! & I nicely noted that some are quite accurate, just like others. Maybe in your hands they arn't but they can have excellent accuracy. None of mine have anywhere near 8-10# pull, my Smiths are stoned & polished & have butter smooth triggers & ANY S&W no matter what the pull is better than that *** Glock trigger.

You also obviously never had to make a head shot, I have, more than once. Not with a hand gun, except once in VN, just to keep it real.

Most if not almost all hostage head shots are from a rest, either a car, tree, barricade, wall etc. & if it's your head sticking up at 25yds without a hostage hiding most of it, I'll pop your melon every time, with a revolver or pistol. Also, revolvers will be shot single action by anyone taking that shot & most good ones are as accurate as the best autos.

AND as far as head shots in a gun fight, at usual combat range, 2-7 yds, hell yes I can do it, & ALL my running mates can do it, I have, (as noted above) & that includes fire & maneuver. 2 in the heart & one in the head is my standard unless I'm on multiples & then it's usually head on the first guy then whatever needs to be done on subsequent.

The main/only thing that counts is the guy who can keep it in the kill while bullets are flying. That is all in the head. If you get too nervous, so sorry, so sad, too bad. Guys who have done it, get nervous after, sometimes before, but firefights usually happen without much warning.

You may think your Glock is great, good for you. I never denigrated you or your glock. I will now since I think it's a *** - but that's TOO ME!

I carry 45 autos most of the time, even a 9mm for a pocket gun, but I also carry a 45 revolver 325PD that is great & for civilian combat ranges is as good as the auto, & with full moon clips I can load my 6 just as fast as any auto.

Oh, and to your "reliability" of combat guns, be hard to find anyone that says revolvers arn't more reliable than autos.

Guess my name is "Walter Mitty" - just like a lot of other combat vets out there, & I'm nothing special as far as, the Marine combat vets I served with, just one of the guys who came back. At least I'm not Elmer Fudd, "Elmer".

[Lloyd Smale]

more walter mitty ****. Your going to look cool running through Walmart head shooting bad guys. Funny thing is in this whole thread theres guys bashing glocks. A gun that is chosen buy police forces a 1000 to one over any revolver. My I own revolvers. Probably more then you do. As a matter of fact id bet on it. Been shooting them as long as you too. I never once said a revolver wasn't accurate or a decent ccw gun. Ive carried them myself ALOT! My argument is against the idiots who come to every one of these glock posts and bash glocks because somehow they think that because they bash them it makes them look like they know what there talking about. Its about the same when people come to rem model 700 posts or leupold scope posts. You always get someone who cant afford a 700 or leupold or already bought a tasco or rossi single shot and trys to say there better to justify it. I chuckle at you guys who bash glocks. Most have never even owned one.

Funny thing is 20 years ago I didn't have any use for them either. Not because I couldn't afford one but because I could afford not to buy one. I could and did buy top shelf guns and custom guns. Well my buddy who forgot more then anyone else ive ever met about guns (and that includes me) had a couple glocks and always bragged on them. So I picked up a 23 to see what it was all about. After 10s of thousands of trouble free rounds I decided I get a hell of a lot more gun for my money with a glock then I do ANY 1911.

Sure theres 1911s that are dammed good guns but theres the sticker shock that comes with them. So you keep your prejudices. Keep telling everyone your so experienced and so smart that your opinion means more then the 95 percent of the law enforcement, military and civilians that buy these black guns. Tell me that being in the marine corp makes you some kind of a handgun expert. I don't know of a single police force or US military service that buys ANY revolvers anymore and the 1911s used by the military today are ONLY used in special forces applications where the operator is 10 times more apt to care for and clean his gun. Even at that its getting less common all the time. So bottom line pal is just about all of America agrees with me on this. Either your so brilliant that you figured out something the rest of the world missed or your wrong. You can have this thread now. Its you and a couple others that are posting know it all bs. Me I'm posting what just about everyone here knows is fact. So bring it on. Ill be the one chuckling in the background.

[garym1a2]

Even the FBI just changed to Glocks,

ww.ammoland.com/2016/07/fbi-picks-glock/#axzz4EC73BvsB

[DerekP Houston]

Even the FBI just changed to Glocks,

ww.ammoland.com/2016/07/fbi-picks-glock/#axzz4EC73BvsB

Goes both ways...

http://www.businessinsider.com/marines-reissue-1911-colt-45-because-the-9-mm-has-no-balls-2012-8

Carry whatever makes you comfortable. I'm a heck of a lot more accurate with a revolver than I am with semi auto, but of course that is in single action mode. LC9s makes an easy conceal for me and shoots to point of aim easily enough, just a smaller sight radius.

[dragon813gt]

Even the FBI just changed to Glocks,

Not trying to start an argument. But just because the FBI is changing to them doesn't mean a thing to me. It's about what you are comfortable and accurate w/. There are a lot of Berettas and Glocks in use by military/LEO. Go overseas and you can add CZ to that list. Only you can decide what's right for you.

[jmort]

Most agency decisions are based on price and dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Glock does a lot to subsidize agency purchases. At the highest level of the food chain in special forces, operators who get to pick, will choose Sig or 1911 or Glock or HK or whatever. At the high end it is not all Glock. At the low end, things get dumbed-down. As obama says, if you like your Glock, you can keep your Glock. I am happy that Glock owners like/love their Glocks.

[mastertack1]

Everybody makes their version of a . Glock . Why not own the original?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[mastertack1]

There even are metal glock style lowers.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[jmort]

^^^ That was your third post in 10 years and all you can come up with is that? Edit: Now you hit four, and that is more constructive.

[tygar]

more walter mitty ****. Your going to look cool running through Walmart head shooting bad guys. Funny thing is in this whole thread theres guys bashing glocks. A gun that is chosen buy police forces a 1000 to one over any revolver. My I own revolvers. Probably more then you do. As a matter of fact id bet on it. Been shooting them as long as you too. I never once said a revolver wasn't accurate or a decent ccw gun. Ive carried them myself ALOT! My argument is against the idiots who come to every one of these glock posts and bash glocks because somehow they think that because they bash them it makes them look like they know what there talking about. Its about the same when people come to rem model 700 posts or leupold scope posts. You always get someone who cant afford a 700 or leupold or already bought a tasco or rossi single shot and trys to say there better to justify it. I chuckle at you guys who bash glocks. Most have never even owned one.

Funny thing is 20 years ago I didn't have any use for them either. Not because I couldn't afford one but because I could afford not to buy one. I could and did buy top shelf guns and custom guns. Well my buddy who forgot more then anyone else ive ever met about guns (and that includes me) had a couple glocks and always bragged on them. So I picked up a 23 to see what it was all about. After 10s of thousands of trouble free rounds I decided I get a hell of a lot more gun for my money with a glock then I do ANY 1911.

Sure theres 1911s that are dammed good guns but theres the sticker shock that comes with them. So you keep your prejudices. Keep telling everyone your so experienced and so smart that your opinion means more then the 95 percent of the law enforcement, military and civilians that buy these black guns. Tell me that being in the marine corp makes you some kind of a handgun expert. I don't know of a single police force or US military service that buys ANY revolvers anymore and the 1911s used by the military today are ONLY used in special forces applications where the operator is 10 times more apt to care for and clean his gun. Even at that its getting less common all the time. So bottom line pal is just about all of America agrees with me on this. Either your so brilliant that you figured out something the rest of the world missed or your wrong. You can have this thread now. Its you and a couple others that are posting know it all bs. Me I'm posting what just about everyone here knows is fact. So bring it on. Ill be the one chuckling in the background.

You are such a dumaz idiot. Tired of you just like most on here. HEAD SHOTS were being talked about in hostage situations, remember!

Just shut your wanabe badaz mouth shut until you've done it.

As someone said above, they dumb down to the lowest idiot & buy that guy. Not cause it's best but because fools like u can actually use it to some minimal degree.

Done with you - ah your blocked

Friggin know it all moron.

[Walkingwolf]

You are such a dumaz idiot. Tired of you just like most on here. HEAD SHOTS were being talked about in hostage situations, remember!

Just shut your wanabe badaz mouth shut until you've done it.

As someone said above, they dumb down to the lowest idiot & buy that guy. Not cause it's best but because fools like u can actually use it to some minimal degree.

Done with you - ah your blocked

Friggin know it all moron.

I gave up many posts ago, while I prefer revolvers, and 1911's to carrying a Glock they work for some people. The real problem with Glocks is not the gun, but the insane fanboys.

[zubrato]

Respect to everyone's experience and skill level in the thread, let's bring it back to reality and say if we met in real life we'd have a grand time shooting, and after eat bbq ribs and drink beer as god intended.

Now to kick the hornets nest in a different direction..
I'll start by saying I carry my 442 air weight as much as I carry my glock, because it's a different tool with a different application for me. It's one of my favorite guns to carry due to the low profile, low weight, and the trigger is superb after I passed a stone over it (thank you Jerry miculek)

However, while it has never failed me, I've had many more failures with revolvers than my glock, and I've put north of 10k rounds through my 19 easily, all +p and some of those rounds with generous helpings of dirt, ice, snow, sand, and water. Something I could never do to my revolvers, because that's not what they are to me.


I'm not bashing, just sharing my experience.

Failures ranging from unburned powder/carbon under the extractor, powder fouling/lube preventing closure of yoke/crane, difficult insertion/extraction of cases (firing 38's then firing full power 357's), extractor rod loosening up (range gun), loose strain screw causing light primer strikes, bullets jumping crimp to freeze up the action. (Last one hasn't happened to me, but I have seen it in light guns with hot loads.)

Now, don't get it twisted I'm not saying they aren't reliable. A great day at the range for me is shooting a ton of wadcutters and 357's loaded hot enough to see the backstrap on my palm, and pop water jugs into insane bits.
It's been a long time since I've ever had a problem with a revolver, but it's because I also make sure I don't.

I'm not posting to bash revolvers, although I'm sure I'll catch some heat for it anyway.

These are just some things the newer guys getting into revolvers
might not know. It's a mix of training and firearm preventative maintenance that many shooters are not used to given the predominance of autoloaders and the revolvers invincible reputation. Not to mention most people who buy a revolver for its legendary reliability rarely or will never use it other than a magic talisman.

Without goal posts, a discussion of design merit is laughable.
You wouldn't drive brad nails with a 20lb sledgehammer, and wouldn't nail 2x4's with a jewelers hammer.

[FergusonTO35]

Why can't we all just carry what we like and are confident with? Why give each other a hard time about it? If you have a gun, any gun, you are already more prepared than 99.9999% of other people on planet Earth.

[jmort]

^^^ Ironically, that is the whole point of the push back against the Glock Drones. I doubt anyone cares if you carry a Glock, or not. As was well stated in post #116:
"The real problem with Glocks is not the gun, but the insane fanboys."

[zubrato]

I'd say any platform has its fanboys and apologists, to include anyone who ever spends money on anything and invests their ego. AK, AR, 1911, glock, Colts, HK etc all have some mystical legendary power once someone invests their ego.
To be honest the most vitriol I ever received was bringing up how revolvers go down.

I honestly find it a point of pride to have so much time behind the trigger of a design to experience those failure modes. Diagnosing, repairing, and preventing a failure mode is the difference between cleaning and maintenance of a firearm.

[DerekP Houston]

I'd say any platform has its fanboys and apologists, to include anyone who ever spends money on anything and invests their ego. AK, AR, 1911, glock, Colts, HK etc all have some mystical legendary power once someone invests their ego.
To be honest the most vitriol I ever received was bringing up how revolvers go down.

I honestly find it a point of pride to have so much time behind the trigger of a design to experience those failure modes. Diagnosing, repairing, and preventing a failure mode is the difference between cleaning and maintenance of a firearm.

Indeed, all mechanical tools need cleaning and maintenance and can have failures. I just like what I like! Don't have a better reason for it than that. The newer style guns have benefited from discovery of previous issues unknown and been improved. Classics will always be classics to me though. Well stated Zubrato.

[tdoyka]

i remember from my army days it was "one shot, one kill." now its like 30( or 16, 15,...etc) shots, MAYBE 1 kill. semi's have their place, lots of people use and carry them around. i like, but don't have, a springfield 1911 range officer in 45acp. i myself have never liked/care to like a glock. thats just me. i shot a few before, but i really didn't like them.

i'm a revolver guy. i have a rossi 38spl that fits in my pocket, waistband, shoulder holster and the like. i've never had to use it, but its there. the little snub nose hits a target about as wide as my head at 15 feet. thats good enough for me. i used to have a ruger srh with a 7.5" barrel in 44 mag. this one i took hunting. i could have sniped someone head off at 100 yards using a rest.

soon a ruger sbh with a 4 5/8" barrel in 44 mag will be my carry/hunting one. if people like wyatt earp, doc holiday, buffalo bill, john harding and the sundance kid to name a few, can shoot a single action, then i can too. maybe not as good(i'll settle for average) as them.

if you like a glock, then have one. if you don't like a glock, have something else. just have something that can save your life.

[Lloyd Smale]

Lloyd Smale
E8088 Jinglebell ln
Munising MI 49862. Its about 5 hours north of Detroit and an hour and a half above the bridge. Bring your best jarhead. :takinWiz: please don't call me names anymore it hurts my feelings![smilie=s:
You are such a dumaz idiot. Tired of you just like most on here. HEAD SHOTS were being talked about in hostage situations, remember!

Just shut your wanabe badaz mouth shut until you've done it.

As someone said above, they dumb down to the lowest idiot & buy that guy. Not cause it's best but because fools like u can actually use it to some minimal degree.

Done with you - ah your blocked

Friggin know it all moron.

[dragon813gt]

Who is a fanboy in this thread? Just wondering because I haven't seen any. Go on over to Glock Talk if you want to see a real one.

[jrayborn]

I'm a fan-boi! I love all of them! But I am aware that some are better than others. I DO try to keep my emotions in check. I like the 1911 best, but there are handguns that are simply better. Oh well.... :)

[DerekP Houston]

I'm a fan-boi! I love all of them! But I am aware that some are better than others. I DO try to keep my emotions in check. I like the 1911 best, but there are handguns that are simply better. Oh well.... :)

Let's all agree we'd rather have a carbine than a handgun :kidding:

[Frank V]

I'm a fan of Glock, they fit me, go bang every time, are accurate, easy to get repeat hits with, don't weigh a ton, & are just a good carry gun. Others don't like them & that's ok everyone should carry what they shoot the best.
Enjoy.

[jrayborn]

Let's all agree we'd rather have a carbine than a handgun :kidding:


Ha! Yes! But only an M-1 Carbine because it is superior to all others!! Ha ha hahahah!!

[pmer]

Hopefully someday the Glock fan can eat a meal with a 1911 (or other non descript gun of lesser quality) fan and not fight like gophers in a bucket.

[6bg6ga]

i remember from my army days it was "one shot, one kill." now its like 30( or 16, 15,...etc) shots, MAYBE 1 kill. semi's have their place, lots of people use and carry them around. i like, but don't have, a springfield 1911 range officer in 45acp. i myself have never liked/care to like a glock. thats just me. i shot a few before, but i really didn't like them.

i'm a revolver guy. i have a rossi 38spl that fits in my pocket, waistband, shoulder holster and the like. i've never had to use it, but its there. the little snub nose hits a target about as wide as my head at 15 feet. thats good enough for me. i used to have a ruger srh with a 7.5" barrel in 44 mag. this one i took hunting. i could have sniped someone head off at 100 yards using a rest.

soon a ruger sbh with a 4 5/8" barrel in 44 mag will be my carry/hunting one. if people like wyatt earp, doc holiday, buffalo bill, john harding and the sundance kid to name a few, can shoot a single action, then i can too. maybe not as good(i'll settle for average) as them.

if you like a glock, then have one. if you don't like a glock, have something else. just have something that can save your life.

Dude, I've never read anymore disrespectful posts than the ones you have managed on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when the personal attacks on fellow members start maybe its time to back away from the screen and take a deep breath. I don't like Glocks and I have owned two of them a model 20 and a model 23. The model 20 will literally make one large hole in the target...mission done all shots in the 9 and 10 ring at 20 yards. The model 23 I own has some trigger parts which made the trigger pull almost manageable and the accuracy is probably in line with most middle cost plastic guns. My love is the 1911's which I own a few. Most cost more than three Glocks, have great 3lb to under 3lb triggers and are extremely accurate in my non Marine hands. While Lloyd can drive a point home if you knew him you would know that he can back up his so called opinionated remarks with actual experience. His experience has been relied upon by a number of us here. He is factual and doesn't give a rats butt about what someone might think about what he has to say. He calls it true and to the point. While Lloyd has a more friendly opinion of the Glock than I do I will have to admit as much as I don't want to that he is spot on. The Glocks while I don't like the fit and feel and trigger pull can be relied upon to keep on ticking. Like it has been pointed out that everyone has an opinion I will mention I wouldn't own a Rossi as I own only S&W since they don't seem to break nearly as often as the cheaper handguns do. As for carrying one for personal defense to each his own but I will have something on me that will SAVE my life with more than enough rounds to get me out of any situation that might arise and if that means carrying my Glock 23 then I will do it. As pointed out by Lloyd and checked by me the fully loaded Glock 23 will weigh as much as my 1911. Logic would dictate that I would carry the Glock 23 since I need to carry something that can save my life. One more thing...please do post when your going to make that 100 yard shot with that Rossi because I would really like to see that one shot one kill on a three foot target.

[Lloyd Smale]

I wish I had the ability to talk without being blunt but its just me. Only thing I can add to your post is that NOBODY ive ever met that's ACTUALLY taken a life in combat or in the line of duty would ever come to a place like this and brag about it to win an argument. Somethings amiss there. I know what my guess would be and id guess the letters B and S are involved.


You also obviously never had to make a head shot, I have, more than once. Not with a hand gun, except once in VN, just to keep it real.

who would post something like this


I'll pop your melon every time, with a revolver or pistol

[jrayborn]

NOBODY ive ever met that's ACTUALLY taken a life in combat or in the line of duty would ever come to a place like this and brag about it to win an argument. Somethings amiss there. I know what my guess would be and id guess the letters B and S are involved.


Ditto.

[paraord]

Woah.....this thread turned into a

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz154/paraord1911/trainwreck_zps0pjqhhuy.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/paraord1911/media/trainwreck_zps0pjqhhuy.jpg.html)

[Walkingwolf]

http://www.gunblast.com/SBHunter.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SBHunter/Mvc-015f-small.jpg

I have not heard anybody foolish enough to accuse Jeff of bragging, or BS. Unless they are a fool...

[tdoyka]

Dude, I've never read anymore disrespectful posts than the ones you have managed on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when the personal attacks on fellow members start maybe its time to back away from the screen and take a deep breath. I don't like Glocks and I have owned two of them a model 20 and a model 23. The model 20 will literally make one large hole in the target...mission done all shots in the 9 and 10 ring at 20 yards. The model 23 I own has some trigger parts which made the trigger pull almost manageable and the accuracy is probably in line with most middle cost plastic guns. My love is the 1911's which I own a few. Most cost more than three Glocks, have great 3lb to under 3lb triggers and are extremely accurate in my non Marine hands. While Lloyd can drive a point home if you knew him you would know that he can back up his so called opinionated remarks with actual experience. His experience has been relied upon by a number of us here. He is factual and doesn't give a rats butt about what someone might think about what he has to say. He calls it true and to the point. While Lloyd has a more friendly opinion of the Glock than I do I will have to admit as much as I don't want to that he is spot on. The Glocks while I don't like the fit and feel and trigger pull can be relied upon to keep on ticking. Like it has been pointed out that everyone has an opinion I will mention I wouldn't own a Rossi as I own only S&W since they don't seem to break nearly as often as the cheaper handguns do. As for carrying one for personal defense to each his own but I will have something on me that will SAVE my life with more than enough rounds to get me out of any situation that might arise and if that means carrying my Glock 23 then I will do it. As pointed out by Lloyd and checked by me the fully loaded Glock 23 will weigh as much as my 1911. Logic would dictate that I would carry the Glock 23 since I need to carry something that can save my life. One more thing...please do post when your going to make that 100 yard shot with that Rossi because I would really like to see that one shot one kill on a three foot target.

i too would love to see a snub nose 38sp take out something the size of my head at 100 yards.:razz: i've never shot my rossi at 100 yards, more like 15 feet(5 yards). i have HAD a ruger super redhawk with a 7.5" barrel in 44 mag, and i could have sniped off a head at 100 yards with a rest(1 1/4 - 1 3/4" groups).

i have said if you like a glock, then carry a glock. if you DON'T like a glock, carry something else it seems like i said this before? like quote #122). i just don't like a glock. i have shot them before(from friends), but i do like a 1911. weight don't bother me much, neither does how many rounds. i am a revolver guy. i have yet to shoot a revolver( around 10,000 rounds) that hasn't failed. i do however, have a couple of semi's that have failed(various 1911s and glocks). it was usually something that could be fixed on the gun range(magazine has the #1 spot on failures).

if you read #122, you will find out that i don't like a glock, but others do. glocks just ain't for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

I know Jeff personaly and have shot with him and will attest to his character and ability with a handgun but don't see anything on there about glocks or 1911s or snubbys. The link is a test of a single action ruger. Ive withnessed super redhawks with scopes shoot one inch 100 yard groups but that sure doesn't apply to this either
http://www.gunblast.com/SBHunter.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SBHunter/Mvc-015f-small.jpg

I have not heard anybody foolish enough to accuse Jeff of bragging, or BS. Unless they are a fool...

[Walkingwolf]

I know Jeff personaly and have shot with him and will attest to his character and ability with a handgun but don't see anything on there about glocks or 1911s or snubbys. The link is a test of a single action ruger. Ive withnessed super redhawks with scopes shoot one inch 100 yard groups but that sure doesn't apply to this either

You don't know much about revolvers do you? You appear to change your story as you are showered with facts. A revolver only needs enough barrel to stabilize the bullet, any revolver. Mechanical accuracy has nothing to do with sight radius, it is possible for any firearm with a high level of mechanical accuracy to shoot very small groups, as long as the shooter has the ability. Glock does not have the same capability as a revolver in good functioning condition, 2 inch, or 12 inch barrel. 1911's have a bushing under spring tension that brings the barrel closer to revolver tolerances. Glock has no bushing, and the barrel is loose compared to a 1911.

But what it boils down to is, you have your choice and others have theirs. It is not your call, no matter how many tantrums you throw, it just makes your outbursts more pathetic.

BTW I think your claims of meeting Jeff are B and S. See how that works.

[Walkingwolf]

i too would love to see a snub nose 38sp take out something the size of my head at 100 yards.:razz: i've never shot my rossi at 100 yards, more like 15 feet(5 yards). i have HAD a ruger super redhawk with a 7.5" barrel in 44 mag, and i could have sniped off a head at 100 yards with a rest(1 1/4 - 1 3/4" groups).

i have said if you like a glock, then carry a glock. if you DON'T like a glock, carry something else it seems like i said this before? like quote #122). i just don't like a glock. i have shot them before(from friends), but i do like a 1911. weight don't bother me much, neither does how many rounds. i am a revolver guy. i have yet to shoot a revolver( around 10,000 rounds) that hasn't failed. i do however, have a couple of semi's that have failed(various 1911s and glocks). it was usually something that could be fixed on the gun range(magazine has the #1 spot on failures).

if you read #122, you will find out that i don't like a glock, but others do. glocks just ain't for me.

The reference was not Rossi and 100 yard shot, it was by another member about 7.5 inch SBH. I said my Rossi is more accurate than any Glock I have, and it is. I also posted a video of Bob Munden long range snubby shooting, didn't say it was a Rossi, probably a Colt, or a Smith. The poster(name unmentioned) was dishonest, very dishonest by trying to twist posts to say something they did not. But this does not surprise me, I see the same thing from fanatics on just about any topic from religion to cars.

Others, as well as I, have made it clear we do not care what another person carries we just do not prefer Glocks. That drives some Glock owners(fanboys) up a wall.

[Lloyd Smale]

why don't you ask Jeff pal. Him and his brother boge are very close friends with my best friend and come up here every year to visit. You might be surprised as to the other big names in the handgun game I know personaly. Ive probably owned more custom revolvers then you've owned guns. Right now I have them by linebaugh (both dustin and john) bowen, clements, gallagher and harton and those are just my customs. Freedom arms? ive owned 5 now. Ive got j,k,l,and n frame smiths and many rugers both single and double action. You want to shoot a snubby?? I had a nice 454 Alaskan that was cut for moon clips if your up to it. Or maybe youd like to shoot my 4 inch vaquero in 500 linebaugh. By the way ive owned 4 500 linebaughs and 3 475s through the years. 1911s? well ill just say MANY. As you can see my gun collection isn't all glock. As a matter of fact its a very small part of it. But I have enough gun sense to know something good when I see it or shoot it. IF you think any of this is bs then ask anyone here that's been around this place for more then a couple years. You see one thing anyone here that knows me will tell you is I tell it like it is, no bs EVER. It sometimes upsets the posers but oh well. they tend to not stick around long anyway. Bottom line is ive probably forgot more about revolvers then you will ever know. If you haven't figured it out by now that your over your head then you a even slower then I thought. Now take your rossi and your star or highpoint or whatever it was and cast you some bullets and play catch up. Maybe by next month you can head shoot chimpmunks at a 100 yards and dig up some more of your ??? war storys while your at it. Might be some sicko on here that really wants to here them.
You don't know much about revolvers do you? You appear to change your story as you are showered with facts. A revolver only needs enough barrel to stabilize the bullet, any revolver. Mechanical accuracy has nothing to do with sight radius, it is possible for any firearm with a high level of mechanical accuracy to shoot very small groups, as long as the shooter has the ability. Glock does not have the same capability as a revolver in good functioning condition, 2 inch, or 12 inch barrel. 1911's have a bushing under spring tension that brings the barrel closer to revolver tolerances. Glock has no bushing, and the barrel is loose compared to a 1911.

But what it boils down to is, you have your choice and others have theirs. It is not your call, no matter how many tantrums you throw, it just makes your outbursts more pathetic.

BTW I think your claims of meeting Jeff are B and S. See how that works.

[Walkingwolf]

You have Jeff's personal phone number? I will give him a call, but I think you are full of it. You just keep digging yourself deeper.

Here you have been complaining about braggers, and you brag more than anybody has. Your credibility is dropping fast.

[dverna]

Lloyd is no ******* and he has articulated the merits of the Glock platform very well

I can afford to carry any gun I wish. I carry a Glock for the reasons stated. I have owned Clarks, and Kimbers, but I stake my life on the plastic gun.

In the end, carry the gun you have confidence in.

[pmer]

:razz: If the Glock and the 1911 could argue

[Lloyd Smale]

my credibility has been proven over and over here. Its you that insists on digging his self in a deep hole. Ive been around on this fourm since its inception and I think if I had a credibility problem it would have been shown by now. The last thing on earth id do is give a nut case like you a personal number. You sir have a definite personality disorder of some kind. Lets see over 13000 posts and your the first that's called me a liar. Doesn't that kind of make a light bulb go off in that empty cavity. Thank you though. You had my wife laughing her but off a few minutes ago when I showed her this whole thread. She said you must have some awfully nervous neighbors[smilie=l:
You have Jeff's personal phone number? I will give him a call, but I think you are full of it. You just keep digging yourself deeper.

Here you have been complaining about braggers, and you brag more than anybody has. Your credibility is dropping fast.

[Walkingwolf]

my credibility has been proven over and over here. Its you that insists on digging his self in a deep hole. Ive been around on this fourm since its inception and I think if I had a credibility problem it would have been shown by now. The last thing on earth id do is give a nut case like you a personal number. You sir have a definite personality disorder of some kind. Lets see over 13000 posts and your the first that's called me a liar. Doesn't that kind of make a light bulb go off in that empty cavity. Thank you though. You had my wife laughing her but off a few minutes ago when I showed her this whole thread. She said you must have some awfully nervous neighbors[smilie=l:

All you have to do is acknowledge that the firearm a person carries is their choice for their reason, and stop with the pushy fanboy attitude. It is my choice to not trust Glock for my reasons. It is your choice to put your faith in them for YOUR reasons. This has been expressed by several members, and you continue with the hatred for anything but Glock. I don't hate Glock, I hate annoying Glock fanboys. Which you have proven yourself one, don't want to be treated like Richard, then stop being a Richard and respect others people's choice in firearms.

[Lloyd Smale]

are you really that dense. Where in any of this have you heard me post hatred of any kind for any type of handgun. I shoot handguns daily and maybe once every week I shoot one of my glocks. If anything I was late to the glock thing and had blind prejudices just like you. I thought the sun rose and set on 1911s myself. I learned and admitted I was wrong. Its you and only you here in this thread that is close minded. Bottom line is I could care less what your opinion is. It means nothing to me. You are far from knowledgeable enough to even make me amused let alone enough to make me respect your opinion. Your strongest attribute is fodder for the anti gun people. Anyone that brags about men hes killed is prime ammo for the liberal anti gun people and gives us NORMAL gun owners a terrible name. Bottom line is maybe you should consider shutting up and letting this die and even maybe going away for a short time and coming back with a new forum name.

I stand a 100 percent behind ANYTHING I SAY ON HERE. Its the reason I use my own real name when I log on here. I don't hide behind made up nicknames so I can be a keyboard commando like some. I'm willing to stand up here or stand up in person for any comments I made or will make in the future. Ive know many Marines in my life and some of them are good friends. What ive found is most of them have a bit more character then the average guy. It was instilled in them while they served and carried into there life afterward. Maybe you should draw on that character you were taught in your future posts on here.

[Walkingwolf]

This whole back and forth is you getting upset over others preference for handguns other than Glock. OR you would have shut up a long time ago when several, including myself, told you it was personal preference. That was not enough for you.

[paraord]

172324

[Preacher Jim]

i find it hard to understand why anybodies personal oppinion carries more merit. you like oat meal and he likes cheerios, it is your choice. this name calling and personal attacks will stop or there will be vacations. defend your love affair. accept that someone else likes theirs, it is a personal choice! act like the men i know you are.
Br. Jim

[dragon813gt]

I like Honey Nut Cheerios. Get it right :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[DerekP Houston]

I like Honey Nut Cheerios. Get it right :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Everyone knows frosted cheerios are the way to go these days, get with the times old man!

[zubrato]

I like Honey Nut Cheerios. Get it right :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

This. I made this mistake once, never again.

At least we can unilaterally agree that milk goes over cereal?
I don't know what kind of monster would pour milk before cereal, and at this point I'm afraid to ask

[Walkingwolf]

Grits with one over easy egg and Texas Pete. Not much of a cold cereal fan.

[tdoyka]

real men[smilie=1: like bacon, eggs, sausage gravy over biscuit and coffee.:razz:






unfortunatly, i have only coffee.:sad:

[Walkingwolf]

real men[smilie=1: like bacon, eggs, sausage gravy over biscuit and coffee.:razz:














unfortunatly, i have only coffee.:sad:

Ohhh I like bacon, but my cardiologist says it is a no no. I still eat low fat sausage though. I shouldn't eat eggs but I won't give those up.

[1_Ogre]

I think Rev. Jim hit the nail on the head. Everyone has their "PERSONAL" preferences, so lets be tolerant of others likes or dislikes, OK? Personally I have nothing against Glocks with the exception that they just don't fit my hand and for that reason I won't own one. That is a personal opinion as well as a functionality problem. A 1911 fits my hand fine, but a Glock doesn't. Doesn't mean a Glock is a bad firearm, it just doesn't fit my hands properly. In the future, lets all think before we put our words into print. Rev. Jim has a very good point, and if the slinging continues, vacations will be given out.

[runfiverun]

WOO-HOO
I like vacations.
not as much as the wife [who thinks vacation means 'spend more money on useless stuff' in another language]
but I still enjoy them.

[No_1]

Grits with one over easy egg and Texas Pete. Not much of a cold cereal fan.

One of my favorites.

[WebMonkey]

i liked pmer's pic

here's my contribution:
172347
g:whatup dude g.i:hello young un, welcome to the range
172348
g:man u is smooth! g.i.:well thanks, i've learned a few things to stay current. you ok sonny?
172349
g:so you wanna hang out sometime? g.i.:ahh, excuse me youngster, i've got an appointment somewhere. goodbye.

:)

[Lloyd Smale]

Me I love bacon but would rather have sausage for breakfast. Make mine sausage and eggs with sausage gravy and biscuits on the side and you can even add some gritts covered in bacon grease.
One of my favorites.

[DerekP Houston]

Me I love bacon but would rather have sausage for breakfast. Make mine sausage and eggs with sausage gravy and biscuits on the side and you can even add some gritts covered in bacon grease.

How do you make the sausage gravy without bacon fat :) that's my favorite part, though I cheat on making biscuits from scratch. Might have to try some grits, don't think my son has had those yet.

[lightload]

Like others here I'm no spring chicken and have an accumulation of tools in various tool boxes, and the unvarnished truth is this: I have more tools than I need and some that I have used only once. I like tools. Also I have a very large gun safe holding a few queens, some princesses, and quite a few ugly ducklings. I love them all. The truth is that I have more handguns than I need. Over the years I could have got by nicely with my Ruger .22 semi auto, the Smith Model 60 two inch, my four inch Model 10, the Colt 1911 .45, and my Smith Model 57 41 mag. However, I have dozens more that I own but do not need. In the mix are Glocks 19 and 26. They're reliable handguns with fair trigger pulls, and they shoot to the point of aim. The Glocks have no soul and instill zero pride of ownership. If they smelled as bad as they look, I wouldn't own them. For some reason, I shoot the 26 as well as any other handgun. Loaded with Federal +P+ 115 jhp from yesteryear, I can ring the gong at 100 yards. Why? How? I don't know, but I can. Maybe Glock screwed this one up and made it too accurate. My Glocks are tools which I sometimes use. They're ok. Are they good? Yeah. Are they great? Maybe. Are they better than everything else? I doubt it, but the truth is I don't know.

[6bg6ga]

Never had sausage gravy in my life and don't plan on trying it. Was forced to try grits when I was young and I don't like them either. Give me a pound of thin sliced bacon or 1/2 lb of spiced sausage and 4 eggs with a piece of toast and you have breakfast. To hell with what my cardiologist says. Forgot the home made fried potatoes with onion and green pepper.

[6bg6ga]

You can run over a Glock with a truck pick it up and shoot it. That would be hell on one of my 1911's. You can scratch the hell out of a Glock and then put a durakote or cerakote finish on it and it looks almost good again.

[garym1a2]

The Glock19/26 just are good shooters for their size.

Like others here I'm no spring chicken and have an accumulation of tools in various tool boxes, and the unvarnished truth is this: I have more tools than I need and some that I have used only once. I like tools. Also I have a very large gun safe holding a few queens, some princesses, and quite a few ugly ducklings. I love them all. The truth is that I have more handguns than I need. Over the years I could have got by nicely with my Ruger .22 semi auto, the Smith Model 60 two inch, my four inch Model 10, the Colt 1911 .45, and my Smith Model 57 41 mag. However, I have dozens more that I own but do not need. In the mix are Glocks 19 and 26. They're reliable handguns with fair trigger pulls, and they shoot to the point of aim. The Glocks have no soul and instill zero pride of ownership. If they smelled as bad as they look, I wouldn't own them. For some reason, I shoot the 26 as well as any other handgun. Loaded with Federal +P+ 115 jhp from yesteryear, I can ring the gong at 100 yards. Why? How? I don't know, but I can. Maybe Glock screwed this one up and made it too accurate. My Glocks are tools which I sometimes use. They're ok. Are they good? Yeah. Are they great? Maybe. Are they better than everything else? I doubt it, but the truth is I don't know.

[WebMonkey]

How do you make the sausage gravy without bacon fat :) that's my favorite part, though I cheat on making biscuits from scratch. Might have to try some grits, don't think my son has had those yet.
Sausage drippin's of course.
;)
U guys are gonna kill my diet!

[garym1a2]

Try sausage gravy over fried potatoes and fried onions.
QUOTE=6bg6ga;3711957]Never had sausage gravy in my life and don't plan on trying it. Was forced to try grits when I was young and I don't like them either. Give me a pound of thin sliced bacon or 1/2 lb of spiced sausage and 4 eggs with a piece of toast and you have breakfast. To hell with what my cardiologist says. Forgot the home made fried potatoes with onion and green pepper.[/QUOTE]

[lightload]

Did somebody forget about syrup and biscuits while describing the dead man diets? [smilie=s:

[tygar]

17240017238917239017239117239217239317239417239517 2396Enough said?

I don't really keep attaboys so some stuff is missing but just comms & achievement & been theres. Ribbons are decades old stashed in a box. As anyone can see, been there/done that. Cong arn't human, just vermin to destroy & it didn't bother me a lick nor most of my runnin mates. Like I said, nothing special, just a guy that came back.

My name is not ever promulgated since, as you can see from just the 45s, I have a few toys.

There are a couple 45s missing, a Para P15 comp, at GS & at least another Officers.

These are my 45s, including revolvers, not including 454s.172399

On top S&Ws the 2 on the left are TSWs which I carry on occasion. The others 4506 etc target/house guns.

Next on left P13, P14. Next to them on the right are 6 hardball/match guns. Top down, 70 Gold Cup, 80 GC, next 2 are match HB guns, then 1991 Bomar semi match, bottom is the Dan Wesson tricked out something gun.

To the left of them are 6 Cdrs of various configurations. Top Ser 70 that I bought new in early 70 & carried for 20yrs, then 3 of them are tricked out combat guns & the bottom is a comp gun that is match accurate.

Next to them are 4 45 revolvers, the top one a 325PD that I carry a lot.

On bottom 3 Officers that I carry, the Kimber mostly.

NO PLASTIC!

Like "The Donald", I never attack, unless, attacked first. Much prefer to keep it friendly, but as a wise man once said, don't confuse my mildness for unwillingness.

One should always know who & what they are willing to challenge - it could be a grave mistake.

Meet Tygar, never met a person he didn't want to say hi to, his way.

[Lloyd Smale]

I make sausage gravy in large batches and freeze it. To much work to make sunday morning.
How do you make the sausage gravy without bacon fat :) that's my favorite part, though I cheat on making biscuits from scratch. Might have to try some grits, don't think my son has had those yet.

[6bg6ga]

Might just dip the Glock into some gravy and give it a taste. Glock is getting a little make over this weekend as the slide was showing some holster wear and has a nice new cerakote finish on it now. Picture to follow when I pick it up from the son.

[DerekP Houston]

I make sausage gravy in large batches and freeze it. To much work to make sunday morning.

I recycle bacon fat a lot (used to save it by the gallon at work). If the pork sausage is too lean or I want more gravy then meat. A splash of bacon fat and a bit more roux fixes that in a jiffy. In more more ambitious days I would render beef fat and chicken fat as well. Mmmm home fries made it chicken fat is divine but very unhealthy I'm sure.

My biggest complaint about leaving the professional kitchen is my lacking a good flap top for cooking on and a burner with more btus than my home insurance will allow. I make do using giant cast iron skillets.

[garym1a2]

I just use Kyrlon, Glocks not worth making pretty.

Might just dip the Glock into some gravy and give it a taste. Glock is getting a little make over this weekend as the slide was showing some holster wear and has a nice new cerakote finish on it now. Picture to follow when I pick it up from the son.

[Piedmont]

You guys have the wrong idea about cardiologists. They LOVE guys like you. So do oncologists and general practitioners. Doctor's kids need shoes and college educations. Condo, luxury car and airplane payments must be met. Mistresses are expensive and so are trophy wives. Keep being what you think is a macho, rugged individualist. They laugh all the way to the bank.

[DerekP Houston]

You guys have the wrong idea about cardiologists. They LOVE guys like you. So do oncologists and general practitioners. Doctor's kids need shoes and college educations. Condo, luxury car and airplane payments must be met. Mistresses are expensive and so are trophy wives. Keep being what you think is a macho, rugged individualist. They laugh all the way to the bank.

no doubt, all things in moderation though ;). my bp and cholesterol just got checked last week.

[Piedmont]

no doubt, all things in moderation though ;). my bp and cholesterol just got checked last week.

Yeah!! You have it figured out. Just eat a "moderate" amount of carcinogens! I hope you are not offended if I don't put you in charge of finances or anything else that is important.

[DerekP Houston]

Yeah!! You have it figured out. Just eat a "moderate" amount of carcinogens! I hope you are not offended if I don't put you in charge of finances or anything else that is important.

Lmao whatever floats your boat. Good luck avoiding everything in life.

I see from your history you drink whisky.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/471040

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19790808&id=CGsaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3CoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6642,4479985&hl=en

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup and some day we will all die no matter if we eat bacon or eat lettuce. Maybe it will buy you 5 more years to eat healthy (maybe) but I'm not eating lettuce for 50 years (other then on a blt) to live a few extra months. Bottom line is lots of health food jogging yuppies go and visit onocologists and cardiologists too.
You guys have the wrong idea about cardiologists. They LOVE guys like you. So do oncologists and general practitioners. Doctor's kids need shoes and college educations. Condo, luxury car and airplane payments must be met. Mistresses are expensive and so are trophy wives. Keep being what you think is a macho, rugged individualist. They laugh all the way to the bank.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup one of my favorite meals is chicken fried venison tenderloin and fried taters with lots of onions with sausage gravy poured over the whole mess. Its a meal fit for a king!
Try sausage gravy over fried potatoes and fried onions.
QUOTE=6bg6ga;3711957]Never had sausage gravy in my life and don't plan on trying it. Was forced to try grits when I was young and I don't like them either. Give me a pound of thin sliced bacon or 1/2 lb of spiced sausage and 4 eggs with a piece of toast and you have breakfast. To hell with what my cardiologist says. Forgot the home made fried potatoes with onion and green pepper.[/QUOTE]

[pmer]

i liked pmer's pic

here's my contribution:
172347
g:whatup dude g.i:hello young un, welcome to the range
172348
g:man u is smooth! g.i.:well thanks, i've learned a few things to stay current. you ok sonny?
172349
g:so you wanna hang out sometime? g.i.:ahh, excuse me youngster, i've got an appointment somewhere. goodbye.

:)


Well this thread pretty much went in all directions LOL. Even phallic, I don't have much to show there he he.

How about the continental breakfast with fruit, cheese and boiled egg? And a good brunch can get me all the way to super with out too much grumbling.