Pure lead bullets

[Zombie1978]

Can you shoot and hunt with pure lead bullets out of a 30/30? It will have a gas check and pushed to maybe to about 1650fps.

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[Crash_Corrigan]

I would make sure that the boolit is at least .001 or more bigger than the bore. An undersized pure lead boolit will deposit tons of crud in the barrel. The lube you use in the load is important. Alox will not suffice at that velocity. Lars45 makes a very good and inexpensive line of lubes. I think his company is White Lube on this website. Then I would make up a few rounds and try them out to see if they are accurate for your needs and they feed well particularly in a lever action tube fed magazine. Once you are satisfied with the loading and the performance please write down the loading and safeguard it cuz you spent time and money to get there.

I have lost loading info previously on well performing rounds because my records were spotty. It is a PITA to have to reinvent the wheel.

[Hickory]

Can you shoot and hunt with pure lead bullets out of a 30/30? It will have a gas check and pushed to maybe to about 1650fps.

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You can make a cake with just flour & water too.

[triggerhappy243]

it would taste like blugh if you did

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Can you shoot and hunt with pure lead bullets out of a 30/30? It will have a gas check and pushed to maybe to about 1650fps.

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Unlike the flour-paste cake, it will work rather well when it hits the spot. I don't see that very precise bullet diameter is much of an issue either, because it will expand to groove diameter on the first impulse of the powder gases, if a reasonable powder for this application is chosen. Lube needs to be carefully chosen, and you need grooves which have room for quite a lot of it. It may produce some leading of the bore anyway, but there are forms of hunting in which you can have a good day firing a shot or two.

Deer hunting? Well, I don't suppose 1650 ft./sec. is out of the question. I have seen people on the boards getting quite hot under the collar about the virtues of what amounts to the 7.63mm. Mauser pistol round in a rifle, and you have a very dependable bullet when it hits. A lot of deer hunting is at short range. But even more than with other applications, it begs the question why not take the simple route of an alloy bullet - just about any kind, even pure wheel-weights if you want to keep it simple - and a little more velocity.

[richhodg66]

Pure lead will mushroom like all get out at a lot less velocity than you're talking about. If I were to try it, I'd slow things down and do some expansion/weight retention testing first. Guys kill deer all the time with pure lead round balls in .45 caliber muzzle loaders, I suppose you could so it with a .30 given the better sectional density, but discipline yourself as a hunter to take nothing but close, very sure shots.

[Digital Dan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg.html)

Fella can do a lot with pure if he does his homework. Package above works at 1600 fps out of a .44 mag rifle, pretty much a max load. Groove is .429", bullet .422" with two wraps of 9# onionskin take it up to .430 and a card wad finishes it off.

Boom.

[44man]

Might get over expansion or total break up at 30-30 velocities.
I love pure lead but confine it to BP.

[quilbilly]

I did a terminal ballistics test a few years back on a 30/30 load that had an MV of 1550 fps. The distance was 40 yards into soaked compressed phone books. it was a RNGC boolit of moderately soft alloy. The penetration was 17+ inches and the boolit started tumbling at 9 inches in causing an absolutely vicious wound channel in the media. I hunt with a muzzleloader and pure lead PRB but were I to consider a modern firearm I wouldn't hesitate to use that easy-going 30/30 load at ranges under 100 yards. FYI - my 45 cal PRB's only get about 8-1/2" of penetration in the same media and at 40 yards but still have put a lot of venison in the freezer with most DRT.

[Motor]

It seems like mixed reviews. The thing that makes me say no is the combination of desired velocity of 1600+fps and the twist rate of the 30-30.

Pure lead works fine in muzzleloaders with slow twist rates and slow twist rates in pistol caliber guns like the 44 mag mentioned above.

I think at 1600+fps that the gas check will not be enough to keep the soft allow from breaking loose from the rifling and simply shooting through the bore.

Testing will be simple. Try a few. If you end up with a smooth bore because it's full of lead you'll have your answer. :)

Motor

[Zombie1978]

Could I add shotshell shot to the lead to harden it? How much would I have to add? What else could I add to harden the lead?

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[1bluehorse]

Considering that's about all that was used for about 100 years or so out of a multitude of rifles and pistols that killed all manner of critter I'd say it will probably work just fine. Sometimes people want to "over think" things and have a tendency to forget what took place before they learned "better"...

[Motor]

Could I add shotshell shot to the lead to harden it? How much would I have to add? What else could I add to harden the lead?

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The fact is "pure lead" is not always pure. Can we state a bhn instead?

I can tell you this. I am currently using 12bhn alloy with Harbor Freight red powder coat on a 168gr gas checked 30 caliber boolit and getting excellent results up near 1900fps. I used to use 15bhn with lube. I got only trace leading with the lubed boolit. The powder coated boolits shoot as clean as J-word.

The softest boolits I have ever cast myself were 8bhn (I think pure is supposed to be around 6bhn?) and shot these with light loads from a 38spl. without gas check and only lubed.

If you have no way of testing your alloy hardness you really have to just go by trial and error.

I believe if your lead is actually pure that you can raise its hardness some by adding shot. Of course the shot has to not be pure lead. ;)

Motor

[DerekP Houston]

Could I add shotshell shot to the lead to harden it? How much would I have to add? What else could I add to harden the lead?

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Eh, if it were me I'd just add 1-2% of tin/pewter and see how it shoots.

[runfiverun]

I'm with Derek.
a little tin would go a long way here.
40-1 or so would make quite a difference.

[quilbilly]

Could I add shotshell shot to the lead to harden it? How much would I have to add? What else could I add to harden the lead?

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The alloy I am currently using is 65% pure lead and 35% hard chilled shot with just a little extra tin added. I am using it in both pistol and rifle loads. Not much expansion in pistol velocities but excellent expansion when the MV is above 1600 fps. I have multiple bottleneck rifle calibers that are MOA or better with this alloy. I am a firm believer in the old adage - If it ain't broke, don't fix it" - so if you rifle likes whatever alloy you are using, don't change it. On the other hand, if you are on this board, you may be a pathological tinkerer with good results. Half the fun of boolit casting is messing with success.

[barrabruce]

I haven't paper patched pure lead in the 30-30 but about everything else.
I had no fun casting and getting a good bullets till I add some tin or ww.
Soft finger nail lead will shoot fine up to about 17-1800 fps in a 12 inch twist.
I use bh of roughly 12 for higher velocity stuff thou.
Do a search for pencil hardness tester and I recommend the Stadealer lithograph set.

With something like 15.7 grns adi 2205 and a 150 or so gn PP 30-30 I get guessing 1600 fps and 1 1/2 inch groups easily at 100 yrds and a lot better than that if I do all the work consistency. and sort bullets somewhat.

It is my yet to be proven 100 yrd pig load.

It takes quite a few shots to heat the barrel ...is mild enough to shoot all day..and easy recovery into getting the sight on the target again.

Hey me gun barrel ain't real flash but its good enough I think.

[JeffinNZ]

I am shooting 40-1 in my .30-30 and getting great accuracy at 1750fps PROVIDING I use a commercial gas check or one made from Cu or brass. 1600fps with pure lead I would think is doable. Think I would favour a slower powder however.

[petroid]

Do your own testing and find out for yourself. I shoot the lee 170 gr FN at 1550fps from the 300 AAC and killed three deer this past season. It penetrated three gallon jugs and stopped in the fourth after expanding to almost .6". It was cast of 50/50 coww/pb so it was a little harder than pure. Try your load and find out