How Much Leading Is Too Much...

[ArrowJ]

I had a bad mould (Lee 356-125 2R). Lee replaced the mould, and the new one works much better. Unfortunately it drops around .355" and even after powder coating some of them are just not large enough.

I am using the same alloy and temp as before and saw nothing but a tiny tiny bit of lead coloration at the muzzle which wiped right off when using the old mould. It dropped .357, but I had to push every bullet out with my thumb.

I am now getting lead at the muzzle. How much (if any) is an acceptable amount of leading before you are unwilling to use a particular bullet?

I got almost all of it off just using Hoppes #9 and a little soaking. I am confident another product would make it even easier.

There was no visible buildup in the rifling.

Would you look into a different mould?

The problem is that my barrel is tight at .354". If I drop a .358 bullet and add up to .002" with powder coat I will have to size down .004" which seems excessive.

Thoughts?

[OS OK]

If I understand you correctly, it sounds like your barrel is tight at the forcing cone/entrance to lands and grooves and not the same at the muzzle end where I would imagine it is larger. Thats where you would get blow by if there is a restriction on the other end.
Can you get a slug in and out from the muzzle and compare it to one driven all the way through to the forcing cone?
I have not experienced this with any revolvers/rifles but I followed a thread where they said that a barrel can be screwed in so tight that it can be squeezed down a bit at the threaded end.

[ArrowJ]

It is a 3" pistol barrel. I did slug it, but not from both ends. Let us assume that it is tighter at the breech. What then?

At present I am loading another test batch using a different powder, but I have low hopes as I used both powders with the other bullets as well.

[mdi]

For some folks no leading is acceptable, but if you're getting good accuracy and the fouling is easy to remove, it would be OK with me. 9mm I figger? "Normally" leading at the muzzle indicates a lube problem, either "running out", or poor performance, but with PCing you should get no leading, just like a jacketed bullet. Perhaps the fouling is something other than lead?

If I figgered my mold was "too small" it would be very easy to lap a few thousandths out of each cavity. Lapping may also solve your sticking problem...

FWIW, when working with guns/ammo, I assume nothing, I measure. If you watch, you can tell if the slug slides through the barrel smoothly or if there are tight spots or loose spots...

[ArrowJ]

The bullets in this mould are falling out with a few taps. I am just not comfortable lapping my mould. Maybe I can find someone that will do it for me. I am sure it is simple, but I know my limitations. It sure would be my preference as I like the style of bullet. If it dropped at .357 I think it would be ideal. Maybe I will try it, but if I do I can see a new mould in my future for sure :)

It did not feel like there were loose or tight spots, but it is only three inches and it was out about the time it went in :)

[OS OK]

You know I have had that 'lead looking smear', light grey smooth looking color at the end of my 1911 and in the last 6 inches of a .45ACP carbine. That was uncured PC smear from my oven being off 75 Degrees low. Went through heck trying to verify actual temp. until someone, I think Dragonheart mentioned using boiling water to verify the thermometers, also recommended a different style of thermometer for the ovens, even my Dillon casting thermometer was off by 30 Degrees.
On the other thought If the barrel is the problem a gunsmith would be my first answer since I've not dealt with that. I'm sure someone will come along in a few minutes and get you squared away though.


170935

[Del-Ray]

You could buy some aluminum tape, and use that to open your mould up a tad. Just put a piece on either side of your cavities and see if that fixes your leading issue. How are you loobing these, Alox, 45/45/10, or wax?

[ArrowJ]

You know I have had that 'lead looking smear', light grey smooth looking color at the end of my 1911 and in the last 6 inches of a .45ACP carbine. That was uncured PC smear from my oven being off 75 Degrees low. Went through heck trying to verify actual temp. until someone, I think Dragonheart mentioned using boiling water to verify the thermometers, also recommended a different style of thermometer for the ovens, even my Dillon casting thermometer was off by 30 Degrees.
On the other thought If the barrel is the problem a gunsmith would be my first answer since I've not dealt with that. I'm sure someone will come along in a few minutes and get you squared away though.


170935

That is interesting indeed! I will be investigating that. Thanks!

[ArrowJ]

You could buy some aluminum tape, and use that to open your mould up a tad. Just put a piece on either side of your cavities and see if that fixes your leading issue. How are you loobing these, Alox, 45/45/10, or wax?

Smoke's powder coat

[44man]

Lead should not build up, any should shoot out with the next shot with the right lube.
If your coated boolits are too large, the coating might strip off. Time to recover some boolits to inspect.

[ArrowJ]

Guess what? Whatever it was stopped when I switched from Bullseye to Silhouette.

I did just that a few minutes ago. Unfortunately it is from the berm and they are pretty torn up, but I can see that the bottom PC is intact but stripped off where the rifling or lands are...not sure which. They passed the hammer test. Maybe I need to check my temp.

[DougGuy]

What do your cylinder throats measure? It matters nought what boolit diameters you -start- with if the throats are smaller than the boolit then the boolits are coming out of the front of the cylinder at throat diameter. Might as well say the cylinder is a 6 port sizing die at that point.

If you can slug your bore from the muzzle, then use a short wooden dowel to coerce the slug back out the muzzle, this will give you the barrel's dimensions without pushing it through the threaded portion. Take this slug and see if it will go into your cylinder throats from the front. It should. That would tell you that the throats are at least groove diameter. If the slug won't go into the throats, there is a major part of the issue right there.

What gun is this?

[44man]

Doug, i am confused, he said pistol barrel. So is it a revolver or semi? He has found coating gone but we don't know the gun either.

[GWM]

Unfortunately it drops around .355" and even after powder coating some of them are just not large enough.

The problem is that my barrel is tight at .354"

If the barrel is .354 and the boolit is .355 plus coating it shouldn't be a problem?
As long as it is a pistol, not a revolver.

[ArrowJ]

Springfield Armory XD Mod2. The issue went away when I switched powder. Do you think I may have been pushing them too hard for my alloy? Either way, as long as they keep shooting straight and not leaving lead (or powder coat) I guess it is good to go.

[Hickok]

ArrowJ, I agree with your thinking. If they are doing good now, "you're walking in high cotton!":guntootsmiley:

[ArrowJ]

ArrowJ, I agree with your thinking. If they are doing good now, "you're walking in high cotton!":guntootsmiley:

In high cotton...have not heard that in years :)

[Walter Laich]

back to original question: I aim for no leading

[runfiverun]

I'd bet that the damage was being done in the throat and you were seeing lead at the muzzle.
the XD pistols don't have much of a throat if any, and the common cure is to size a bit smaller to avoid damaging the oversized boolit as it enters the rifling at the end of the chamber.

anyway the launch is important in getting the boolit in the barrel then accelerating it in a rifle and sometimes makes a huge difference in a pistol too.

pistol = semi auto.
revolver = revolver.

[DougGuy]

Doug, i am confused, he said pistol barrel. So is it a revolver or semi? He has found coating gone but we don't know the gun either.


What gun is this?

My bad I guess, I should have figured it was an auto with .354" groove diameter.

[44man]

My bad I guess, I should have figured it was an auto with .354" groove diameter.
No harm but to answer his question about a powder change and yes, an easier start will prevent slump. Many that powder coat use a softer lead and it is OK if the boolit can take rapid pressure rises.
If I ever go to it I think I would still use my WD, WW boolits. I see no need now because I get such good results and am too lazy to work on more.
Once I find what works I record only that and might have only one, two or three loads for each gun. I do not have a note book full of everything ever shot, I have one page with dimensions, velocities and maybe one load only. You would laugh at my record keeping, must be 500 blank pages in my little book.
Same as molds, I have hundreds, Lee, Lyman, RCBS and my home made ones. Every one does exactly the same and I have not a single note on any mold. I am baffled when a guy says this mold needs 2° more or less and keeps notes on every mold.

[Freightman]

No harm but to answer his question about a powder change and yes, an easier start will prevent slump. Many that powder coat use a softer lead and it is OK if the boolit can take rapid pressure rises.
If I ever go to it I think I would still use my WD, WW boolits. I see no need now because I get such good results and am too lazy to work on more.
Once I find what works I record only that and might have only one, two or three loads for each gun. I do not have a note book full of everything ever shot, I have one page with dimensions, velocities and maybe one load only. You would laugh at my record keeping, must be 500 blank pages in my little book.
Same as molds, I have hundreds, Lee, Lyman, RCBS and my home made ones. Every one does exactly the same and I have not a single note on any mold. I am baffled when a guy says this mold needs 2° more or less and keeps notes on every mold.
Finally someone who don't over complicate the processes. Thanks