Lathe followed me home

[cheese1566]

Came across a nice little (I mean little!) Craftsman 109-21270 lathe yesterday off a local Facebook posting. Needs some tlc and a good cleaning. I was surprised how decent a shape its in, considering its early 1950 era. I was very surprised to see the man had small box of "tooling" with it. He opened it to find a mess of change gears! As my research is growing, I found a manual and few websites with helpful info. One is homeshopsupply that is still offering some small tooling and #0 morse tapers for the head and tail stock.

The 3 jaw chuck freely opens and closes and not a touch of significant rust anywhere. I found I have a complete set of change gears (minus only one, but I would only need it for cutting 13tpi threads). It came with a counter shaft unit and non-original motor. I was surprised to find it has a back gear planetary system, reverse gear tumbler for the lead screw for cutting left hand threads, and the threading dial was present.

I know it ain't anything spectacular for precision and size, but my other Grizzly G0602 10x22 suffices for my needs. Might be good for tiny parts or brass case trimming!

At least it will give me a project in cleaning it up and tuning it. That's the fun isn't?
170931

[Old Scribe]

What a great find!

[wonderwolf]

Little ones like that have been on my watch list. Something small and handy for the stuff like cartridge conversions or brass. looks like a hoot!

[Artful]

What a little cutie - I redid the bearings/brass bushings for one that was smaller (jewelry lathe) - but it was amazing what the little buggers can do.

[leebuilder]

Nice find. Only every saw one like that. They are very handy in the shop. I use my small taig lathe all the time, if it could thread it would be the ultimate lathe, reproducing all those tiny threads on sights and such.
Be well

[bangerjim]

I had one of those many years ago. Bought if for $10 at a yard sale.

No power feed or crossfeed. Cannot cut precision threads, but a basic small lathe for general use.

Uses an old style lantern tool post with rocker wedge. You could convert a Little Machine Shop Aloris-style to it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Little ones like that have been on my watch list. Something small and handy for the stuff like cartridge conversions or brass. looks like a hoot!

Yes, and to that I would add screws and pins. People here tell you - rightly in a sense - to go for the biggest you can. But there is a law of diminishing returns, like ten doughnuts not being ten times as good as one doughnut and twenty doughnuts being worse, on the amount of money and space you devote to a lathe. One like this escalates in value with a firm like Home Shop Supply backing you up.

You can live a long lifetime without needing a 13tpi thread, and I don't know what is the missing wheel you need for it. But if it bothers you, try a followed search on eBay. They will notify you by e-mail if one comes up. I have found a lot of long-sought items that way, some of them even useful.

A very useful accessory for screws would be a tailstock die holder. I don't believe these are made in 0MT, but a larger one might be adapted with one of the Home Shop Supply tapers.

[cheese1566]

I just realized that 13tpi is used on 1/2" coarse thread bolts. Unsure if I would ever thread a 1/2" shaft on it. But I have all but that one, so I am that kinda guy who would get it nonetheless. Homeshopsupply had 52's for about $11, not bad considering some gears go for $50-75 each. He also has some other goodies as well.

Power feed on all isnt important to me on this little guy. It does have a lead screw so I guess the main carriage does have a power feed. Same aspect as my bigger Grizzly. The feed for the carriage is on the right end of the lead screw, looks like maybe a pain to reach over and turn, but at least it will be a small reach.

I am already looking at the little import mini quick change tool post sets.

No biggie on lack of graduated dials either, I am thinking of poor man dro's using harbor freight $10 electronic calipers someday.

[lead-1]

I keep looking at those types on the sale sights but being a tight wad, fixed income, I haven't been able to pull the trigger on one yet. And then I try to decide if I do, will I want a new 7x12 Central/Grizzly/Harbor Freight or take a chance on a 101/109 that may be worn out and need rebuilt.
BTW, there is a video well done series on youtube of a guy rebuilding a 101/109 lathe from one end to the other.

Here is a link to the first video of the series, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_vsljuLRq4

[Frank46]

Have one of the craftman sears 6" with 20" long bed. Bought an old 22 rf barrel at a gun show and proceeded to make a heavy barrel for a 10-22 ruger. Gunsmith cut the chamber and did the slot for the locking block. Spray painted it with epoxy paint and it had a parker hale 22rf liner in it. Great for making pins, firing pins for sinle shots, and a bunch of other stuff. Got tired using the old lantern and rocker tool holder so looked through the junk at work. Ended up with a square tool post holder. Cruse but works. Bought it in '67 after I got out of the navy. Don't use it as much as I used to as I have a jet 13x40 gearhead lathe.Frank

[leadman]

I have the exact same lathe. Bought it about 15 years ago or more for $80. My tail stock is worn so this gives me problems but I really don't use it much so it is ok.
E-bay has lots of tooling and chucks for these little lathes. Mine came with a 4 jaw so I bought a 3 jaw Chinese and it is ok.

[smoked turkey]

I also have that exact same lathe. I have owned it for a number of years and have never taken the time to learn how to use it. I was hoping to make some gas check making dies with it if I ever get it going. Unfortunately I know nothing about a metal lathe.

[No_1]

What a wonderful jewel to find. I am sure you will enjoy it.

[KCSO]

I used one for a long time for just making small screws and lock repair. They work great if not pushed. I dumped the funny 3 jaw and went with a good 4 jaw chuck.

[daschnoz]

Nice find. Now, go get lathed.

[cheese1566]

Well, I just picked up a decent proform brand treadmill for a lowly $20. I was researching the last few days on treadmill motor conversions using the dc motors and control boards from treadmills. This unit (hopefully, according to replacement parts listed for it on Internet sights), should have a decent motor and the common mc60 style controller. Seems that controller is popular and info abounds for mods.

I am thinking the little Craftsman may be a prime candidate for a variable speed project. I know, it's not a bought controller, or multi-phase motor and VFD, but I like what I am reading.

See how it goes when I tear into it. I will always have the original pulleys and the countershaft and AC motor to resort to.

[Gliden07]

I have a Atlas 618 that was given to me. Needed a motor and motor pulley that I found on the web. I have no idea how to use it and still have no tooling. But I bought the original manual and have been reading it. Any other books some of you guys could recommend to me would be great.

[cheese1566]

Google search and download a copy of the SouthBend "How to run a lathe." It was recommended to me by the old timers in my local machine shop. It was written in the 1930's or so, but still has good basic info.

I also like to watch Tubal Cain videos on YouTube. Sometimes he also goes my Mr.Pete.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Cheese: You will find that it is pretty easy to make threads with Taps and Dies. No one single points small threads. On a lathe it is much easier to get a tap or a die started strait than it ever was freehand. For the amount of threading you will actually need to do on a Lathe, especially a small lathe like this one, believe me you can live without the threading function.

That was a great find and if I was you I'd already be prepping it for a complete teardown, clean up and paint job!

Randy

[cheese1566]

She is already tore down on the bench for a clean up. I debated repainting, but decided the paint on it now os in pretty good shape. It may be a project down the road someday. At least then, i could use use paint and have all the poeces and new accessories (motor, control box.....) match.

Darn it, now you got me thinking!!

[aspangler]

Check out CDCO machinery on the net. They have stuff for reasonable prices. It's where I get most of my stuff. Just my .02 worth.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Cheese: You will find that it is pretty easy to make threads with Taps and Dies. No one single points small threads. On a lathe it is much easier to get a tap or a die started strait than it ever was freehand. For the amount of threading you will actually need to do on a Lathe, especially a small lathe like this one, believe me you can live without the threading function.

That's true. I've mentioned a tailstock dieholder. You can get sliding ones, to be used under power, but I think it is best, especially where space is limited, to have a solid one, and turn the headstock by hand. You can also get tap holders, some of which have a slipping clutch to prevent tap breakage. Nice theory! But I think you are better off with a pair of 60 degree centres for the tailstock, and a tap wrench, shortened if necessary, to turn the tap by hand. Some taps have a 60 degree hole on the end, and others, especially in small sizes, a 60 degree point. The latter is the difficult one, especially in 0MT, for which things like centres and unfinished Morse taper mandrels are hard to get. But you could do it with an ordinary centre, filed flat and drilled with a centre drill, carbide if you do it in the hardened state.

[Gliden07]

Google search and download a copy of the SouthBend "How to run a lathe." It was recommended to me by the old timers in my local machine shop. It was written in the 1930's or so, but still has good basic info.

I also like to watch Tubal Cain videos on YouTube. Sometimes he also goes my Mr.Pete.

Thank you for the recommendation. I watch Tubal Cain/Mr. Pete too! Sometimes he's a little longwinded though! But defiantly a wealth of knowledge!

[Mk42gunner]

One thing to keep in mind with that little lathe is that the tailstock isn't a true 0MT, it is shortened. I am not sure if a normal 0MT would work if it was cut to length or not.

I also have one of those in the garage, but I haven't used it yet. The weather hasn't cooperated since I bought it; either unbearably hot, or raining way to much to string electrical cords.

Robert

[Ballistics in Scotland]

One thing to keep in mind with that little lathe is that the tailstock isn't a true 0MT, it is shortened. I am not sure if a normal 0MT would work if it was cut to length or not.

I also have one of those in the garage, but I haven't used it yet. The weather hasn't cooperated since I bought it; either unbearably hot, or raining way to much to string electrical cords.

Robert

Ah thanks, I didn't realize that. There is a very little used series of stub Morse tapers, half the usual length. All I know is that the Wikipedia article on machine tapers says "There are standards for these, which among other things are sometimes used in lathe head stocks to preserve a larger spindle through-hole."

That sounds like they correspond to the larger half of the ordinary Morse taper, and the ordinary tooling would fit if there actually was a hole, which I would guess some lathes have and others not. (I used to have a little Myford ML10 lathe with the great benefit of a hole all the way through the tailstock, although for that you gave up on tool ejection and tools secured by a Morse taper with a tongue.)

But part of my white elephant collection is a Dihart Komet reamer with a male taper corresponding to the small end of 0MT. It has both a drawbar thread and studs to fit a crosswise slot. So something must use that fitting, even if it is only dihart's own reamer holder.

[cheese1566]

Homeshopsupply has a nice article and info on the differences of the craftsman mt0 and the industry standard mt0. He explains the difference and shows pics. If i didnt have two dead centers and a chuck adapter for the tailstock, i would consider converting. I wonder if someone made a new spindle on this lathe as it doesnt have a morse taper or any hole for that matter; just the 1/2-20 thread for the chuck. I read they are easy to bend if not careful and over burden the little gal.

[Mk42gunner]

Cheese1566,

You have probably read all the same articles and webpages I have read about the little Craftsman lathe. The way I understand it the original headstock had a ½-20 thread, with some replacements having a 9/16-?? thread. None of the ones I have read about had a hole through the headstock.

From what I have read, it is very easy to bend the headstock when removing it for belt replacement. If the one on my operational lathe ever needs replacing, I am going to find one of the link types so I don't have to mess with taking it all apart.

I did pick up one of these lathes years ago that had sat out in the rain long enough to basically ruin it, but it had a four jaw chuck. I am hoping it will fit on the good one I gave $100 for.

Anyway, I am hoping I can at least learn how to do some basic turning before I spend money on a real lathe.

Robert

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Cheese1566,

You have probably read all the same articles and webpages I have read about the little Craftsman lathe. The way I understand it the original headstock had a ½-20 thread, with some replacements having a 9/16-?? thread. None of the ones I have read about had a hole through the headstock.


Ah, now that is a liability for working on screws, firing pins etc. It could be drilled, probably even if
it is hardened with straight-fluted carbide drills. I've done that to insert pilots in reamers and end mills. It is best to alternate between two sizes of drill, a little depth at a time, since steel will very easily grip and break carbide if it gets to expand and contract.

A sixteenth of an inch doesn't sound much, but I would much prefer 9/16in. for doing this. It must be quite a belt changing operation to bend a headstock, but no doubt the design requires it. Or there might be suitable size of round polyurethane which you can join by heat, as with my even smaller Unimat. I grafted a piece of sheet copper into the bit of a cheap electric soldering iron for that job.

[cheese1566]

Found a treadmill for $20 that has a 1.25hp motor (whatever that actually means) and it had an older MC40 controller. I temp hooked it up using the original potentialmeter and choke. I turned the armature on my bigger lathe to a 1/2" shaft and incorporated the original triple motor pulley.
I like it!
But wow, there is too much grease in the planetary gears as it is slinging grease all over at higher speed. I think i may have put too muck oil in the bearing cups as well. Its a slinger!! Wow.

Just a test run as i have more work to do and get the elect in a box. I have a cheap tach coming from ebay to indicate speeds.

[bangerjim]

It is extremely easy to use a tread mill DC motor and it's controller board in it to adapt to a lathe. I did that to my 14" Delta wood lathe. Excellent speed and torque. Perfect control for a wood lathe! Probably would work on that little metal lathe.

Soft start and stop! Most tread mills have all that built into the main motor control board.

The motor I have from the tread mill is a 2HP. All I did is trace the wiring, write the color vs. termiations down, and build into a nice metal box.

Older tread mills are a great source of variable speed controlled motors. The DC feedback circuits keeps the RPM and torque constant at any speed setting. Almost as good as a VFD.

Have fun!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Just cleaning the paint with a serious cleaner like Costco Oil Eator and then soaking it with WD40 will bring it back. The key is to get all the old oil and rust stains out of the paint before re-oiling with WD40.

The thing is since you've already got it apart, now is the time to paint it. It is hard to justify taking it apart again later to paint it.

I would highly recommend using a single stage Automotive Paint with Hardener like DuPont Single Stage Centari which should be available to you at any Auto Parts Store that also does Body Shop Supply. They will mix any color you want and a quart will do it and several other projects as well.

This paint is super easy to spray with a $12 Harbor Freight Touch Up Gun and goes on and lays down nicely.

When you are done you will have something that you can really be proud of, and will also increase the resale value a lot.

If you didn't live 1500 miles away I'd shoot it for you.

Randy

[KCSO]

Au Contrair... since I work on a lot of old stuff I am always single pointing the odd threads the old guns have. I also like to single point in the starting threads on even common sizes just to make sure they are dead straight. especially for lock parts. Try and buy a die for say 12-48. That's why I keep an old lathe around set up for threading. My current OLD one is a craftsman after I foolishly sold my old South Bend.

[Chill Wills]

Got rid of the South Bend!?

Well. ....I've sold guns I regret too!

On Craigs and Ebay I see what might be good South Bends for OK prices but they are all on the wrong side of the Mississippi. In fact - Way far east of the wrong side Mississippi!

There aren't many days that I don't use my lathe for some little thing.

[cheese1566]

Well here it is so far!

I cleaned it up and made some new basic hand wheels and spinners from alum stock. Added a larger hand wheel to the end of the lead screw to replace the stock wheel. All of the gears are present and in good shape, except for a #52 that only is needed for 13tpi threads. I'm found an old Craftsman 1/2-20 drill chuck I can thread on the head stock spindle instead of using the 3 jaw chuck.

It has variable speed from treadmill parts and digital tach from eBay. I retained the original back gear pulley system in the headstock so I can maintain torque at low speeds if needed. I can run it from around 75-1600+ rpm on the test run in regular mode and not engaging the back gears.That is using the smallest pulley on the motor and the largest on the spindle. But, it won't ever get run that high by me, since it factory tops at 1200 and it only has oiled bronze/brass bearings.

174931

[W.R.Buchanan]

That looks good! Now soak the paint with WD40 and let it sit for a day or so and then wipe off the excess. It will bring the paint back to life and look like new.

You've got a very cool little machine. The Vari-Speed Drive is a nice touch. As far as the High Speeds on Bronze Bushings is concerned, it won't matter as long as the bearings have oil in them, they are designed to take high speeds as the machine is designed for small parts. With really small parts you have to run the machine fast or you will end up taking cuts that are too big for the small sizes.

The Amsoil 20-50 Racing Oil works really well on Bronze Bushings and stays on the job better than anything I've found in 35 years of doing this for a living. Mobil Vactra Oil was the good stuff,,, now the Amsoil is the good stuff.

Randy