Are drawings or CAD available for dies

[bpost1958]

Are there drawings or CAD data available for the dies used to;
(1) make RF cases into .224dia bullet jackets
(2) the core seating die
(3) the point forming die

I have the RCBS A4 press and would like to swage .224 dia bullets again.

Thanks!

[waydownsouth]

put me down for a copy of them too.

[cubflyer75]

I've been looking for this very thing. I'd love some prints as well. Mike

[jcunclejoe]

Hello gentlemen, it seems I have what you are looking for. I took a set of Sport Flight Manufacturing 22RF swaging dies and improved the design based on 6 years of experience as a Nosler tooling engineer and using readily available materials from sources like McMaster-Carr. The set is designed to be used on a Rock Chucker press (the real Rock Chucker,, NOT the supreme). The dies and punches can be made on a lathe with perhaps only minor grinding or mill work. I have carbide die inserts called out but tool steel can certainly be substituted. I can provide the full set of prints in paper form or in AutoCad 2004. I am asking $50 per set, only because I have many many hours invested in the design. I love to trade too if cash is a problem.
Please let me know if you are interested.
Thanks
Joe
jcunclejoe@aol.com

[waydownsouth]

i have drawn up a set of plans for the first die and will post them here as soon as i can work out how to get them from paper to here.

[bpost1958]

i have drawn up a set of plans for the first die and will post them here as soon as i can work out how to get them from paper to here.


Thank you sir!

[cris]

Hi everybody,

I am new to this forum. I am not the most experienced swager but have a lot of fun creating my own bullet designs. I am not a skilled machinist either, nor own a machine shop or have plenty of time to spend on machines but have found some interesting ways to ease the production of part of the equipment.
If you are interested I might be helpful to some extend.

The die for derimming spent .22RF cases for example.

How I did it…. Al measures in mm. Sorry, but I am European. And apologize for any mistakes in English….

The punch that fits inside the case is 5mm thick.
I am using a RCBS Rock Chucker press.
The punch: is seated, forced or screwed into a “shellholder”. You have to turn a base for the punch with the dimensions of a standard shellholder that fits to your press. Do not mill the recesses needed for the case. Leave the surface plain but make some arrangement for the punch pin (the hardened and ground 5mm pin). This is done by simply drilling a hole where you can press fit the pin and glue/solder it, or tap the hole and screw the pin in . The pin must be hardened, otherwise it will wear very fast due to the priming residues of the case that wont be washed out completely during cleaning. I use 5mm pins I buy at a shop that sells items for machine shops (don’t know how it is called in English). One pin costs the horrible sum of 0,80 euros, is hardened, ground, has round endings (very important if you do not want to punch through the case) and the shop has a choice in 0,1mm increments available. I don’t think that there is a cheaper solution for this.
This part fits into the shellholder and is where the clean empty and lubed case in placed upon to be pressed into the die.
I forgot… the punch is 38mm long, my shellhoder base is 12,8mm high. I have annealed one end of the pin with a torch to soften it and have cut a thread. My pin is actually screwed into the base.


To be continued…

[Wicky]

Cris, interesting stuff keep it coming. Thanks

[cris]

The die body of the derimming die:

It is made of 3 parts.
The fist part, is what I call the “working part”. It is a small hardened cylinder with a calibrated hole in it. This hole is the one where the punch with the case enters and the rim is removed. The hole is 5,5mm in diameter and polished. A .224 bullet is 5,56mm. The hole is smaller than the finished bullet. The case is stretched into a jacket of a smaller diameter than the finished bullet (I think that everybody swaging already knows this). Seating the core will expand the jacket.
My “working part” has an outside diameter of 15,83 mm and is 14,60mm high. The hole diameter is 5,5mm only for half of its length. This part of the hole is polished. Then it widens slightly for a length of 7mm to a diameter of aprox. 7,5mm. This part has a smooth surface, but has not the finish of the 5,5mm hole. And at the end of this part I have a chamfer 2mm deep that widens to 9,5mm diameter. A good and cheap idea for avoiding the hardening process is to use “drilling bushings??” I don’t know how they are called. These are used to center drill bits, are made of hardened steel, HRc around 61, and are polished inside. I found them in two heights at my store. I took the higher one without the collar. The only problem is that a lead has to be ground into one end of this bushing. The piece is hardened at it takes some time. I paid 2 euro for this and spent half an hour smoothing it out with a dremel tool. It works perfectly. People with a steady hand and a solid rest will be able to achieve a smoother surface in the lead area than I did…

The second part
The “working part” part has to fit inside a “tube”, The outside of this “tube” gets the 7/8x 14 thread needed to screw it into the press. My “tube” is 45mm high, threaded almost completely with a small part knurled. The bottom of this “tube” has a hole of 9,5mm diameter. Actually this piece did not start as a tube, but as a bar. The 9,5mm hole was drilled and then widened on a lathe to almost 16mm for the entire length except for the last 2mm, where the “working part” comes to stop, once it is dropped inside the tube. The 9,5mm diameter was chosen because it is the same width of the “entrance” of the “working part” described above. The 16mm where chosen because it is slightly wider than the outside diameter of the “working part” (which is 15,8mm wide) and because M16 is a standard metric thread. If you find “drilling bushing” with a smaller outside diameter just turn a smaller hole, of the proper size to fit your bushing. This “tube” is threaded on the inside too. M 16 for about 25mm deep.
I will explain why: The “working part” is dropped into this “tube” (with the chamfered face looking down) and must be held down into the tube in some way, otherwise it will be lifted by the case trying to enter the “working part”. This is achieved screwing a plug (which is the third part of the complete die).

The third part
Is this “plug”. Mine is 40mm high, and started out of a 19mm thick steel rod. This plug has a hole of 6,5mm diameter through it. This hole is where the newly born jackets are pushed through to leave the “working part” and finally the die. One end of the plug has been turned down to 15,4 mm for a length of 12mm. This end of the plug does not touch the inside of the “tube” and comes to rest on the “working part” once the “plug” is screwed into the “tube”. Above this smaller end of the “plug” is the M16 thread, 16mm high. Then a relief cut and finally the knurled end, 19mm wide and 6,4mm high.

The “working part” fits into the “tube” and comes to rest on the bottom of this “tube”. The “plug” is screwed in and holds the “working part” down. When processing the cases after 3 cases I have jacket coming out of the die every time I insert a new case.

[KYRick]

Pictures of this would be great.

[cris]

as you like

the "punch"
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6966/22rfdiejacketmaker001wu3.jpg

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7752/22rfdiejacketmaker003bw7.jpg

the pins, these are new with a flat end, my punch, as you can see, has a rounded end and is quite "used" :mrgreen:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9438/22rfdiejacketmaker004og1.jpg

[cris]

the "working part" two versions...

selfmade, sent to harden it...

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7489/22rfdiejacketmaker005hj4.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1084/22rfdiejacketmaker006gq4.jpg

the "drill bushing" version (this is with collar), worked in a hardened state

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1451/22rfdiejacketmaker009ye9.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6089/22rfdiejacketmaker011yb5.jpg

[cris]

the "plug"

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2347/22rfdiejacketmaker012sr3.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7596/22rfdiejacketmaker013qg4.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/20/22rfdiejacketmaker014zy9.jpg

[cris]

the "body"

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9430/22rfdiejacketmaker016rb5.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4013/22rfdiejacketmaker017gy9.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6590/22rfdiejacketmaker018ju3.jpg

[cris]

hope this will help

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6259/22rfdiejacketmaker021kz0.jpg

cris

[Salmon-boy]

Excellent!! Drill bushings!! I shouldahadaV8!!

Those little buggers are easy to get ahold of and are hardened!

[KYRick]

Thanks Cris, this is very helpful.

[blysmelter]

I am jusy waiting for the rest of the story from Chris. The only thing stopping me from buying a AR15 is the cost of feeding it,and this migth be a soltion.

[cris]

I am jusy waiting for the rest of the story from Chris. The only thing stopping me from buying a AR15 is the cost of feeding it,and this migth be a soltion.

I am working on an article concerning how to build a swaging die set for .224 bullets. It will take some time, but when it will be finished I will translate it and post it.

[Maven]

Excellent essay & workmanship Cris!

[Antietamgw]

Cris, thanks for the time and willingness to share your ideas. I look forward to your article. This is a project I've had in mind for some time. Very nice work!

[blysmelter]

I am working on an article concerning how to build a swaging die set for .224 bullets. It will take some time, but when it will be finished I will translate it and post it.


Exellent news:-) Tell us wich magazine and I will buy one!

[hapi]

tag for update on the magazine and info for making dies. thanks :-D

[cris]

Seems that the issue is to technical. I was asked to remove any explanations on how to make the dies, because it is “of no interest for a gun magazine”. I have been asked to prepare just an article on what swaging is.
Maybe I will do it some day, but I think that anyone on this forum already knows what bullet swaging is.
Thus I prefer to discuss directly my approach to swaging here on the web.

I use L. Blackmon, D. Corbin H-type and Niemi dies.
I now make my own punches, core swaging and core seating dies. I still buy the point form dies from the cited producers, but I am looking for an alternative source here in Europe. I have an idea on how the dies should look, but don’t have the machines and the necessary skills (and time) to make the point form die.

To be honest, I don’t make the first two dies by myself anymore. I have found an easier way, and since I make dies only for my personal use, once I have a good set I don’t bother anymore with making a second one.

My first trials where copies of the commercial dies and punches. The hard part is making the holes truly round, smooth and of the correct diameter.
This requires good skills, more than some exotic machines. A good lathe is useless If you can’t work with a precision of 0,01mm or less. I am not always that good, so I found a different approach.

I made adapters for my presses and buy the punches and dies form Misumi. A useful punch costs me less than 10 Euros and a die costs something around 40 Euros. You just have to know what you need.

[deltaenterprizes]

Try submiting your article to Village Press for publication in "the Home Shop Machinist" or "Machinist Workshop"!

[TAWILDCATT]

SPEER started by making 22s using fired cases during WW2 and selling them.so it has been done on a large scall at one time.
Vickerys book shows how to make a press and dies.:coffeecom[smilie=1:

[ntodawind]

Chris,
This very inovative, Could you take pictures of this in action or each step, start to finish as to see what does what for the forming process and pressing the lead into the newly formed case and the forming of the pionted end of the projectile.
Thanks,
Tim

[pelallito]

Cris,
I am new to the forum and found your post very informative. Thanks for posting it.
Some of the pictures don't open up. I would love to see them.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Fred