45-70 Lite loads

[GRUMPA]

I just thought I would say thanks to all you folks in CB land that post load data. And of course Willy for adding that search feature to make it much simpler to hunt things down.

I got so much load data for lite loads it isn't funny, and for the most part proven loads. I only have some of the powders listed here and there but I do have some Unique. So I tried 11gr of Unique along with a PC'd LEE 405gr HB and was somewhat taken by the mild recoil. At 200yds the drop is around 18" but the recoil was about the same as a factory loaded 44mag in my lever gun. Talk about taming a beast of a round, that 11gr of Unique was impressive to say the least. Normally I can handle a 42gr charge of 3031 with ease, but using that Unique was sure nice.

[TXGunNut]

That's what I like about the 45-70, seems it's one of those cartridges that's happy with mild, wild and anywhere in between and it can be loaded to good results with well over a dozen powders and dozens of boolits and even more than a few bullets. And even propelled by 11 grs of Unique it's still a 45-70 when it gets where you sent it with plenty of honest smack-down power.
I've never felt I was recoil sensitive but I will admit to enjoying the more sedate loads these days, lol.

[Scharfschuetze]

Yep, most of the loads that I fire in several 45/70s all mimic the US Cavalry load of a 405 grain cast boolit at 1,100 fps. With sights capable of long range work, it holds quite well way out yonder on whatever is the target du jour.

[MT Chambers]

If you want light loads in a 45/70 you need to get you a "collar button mold"

[swamp]

+1 on the collar button. It is a lot of fun in my sxs. And the rifle seems to like it. Can shoot it all afternoon.
swamp

[therealhitman]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I've been wanting to try a light load with 700X based on these charts...

[ohiomadman]

My lite load is a 405gr boolit over 4gr of Trail Boss. I call it my pop gun load. Drops like a rock past 50 Yards.

[TenTea]

My Trapdoor load data came from studying here also, and that 11 grains of Unique is a good one with a 375 grain Saeco (#023) SP. Unique worked well with the 405 Lee HB too, although I despised casting with that mould.
I have yet to get started with further ladder testing and load development with the Saeco bullet, although have tried some Reloader 7 with decent results too, but I don't remember the powder charge.
I do recall seeing some unburnt Reloader 7 powder at those low pressures, though.
The Unique loads burned as clean as it gets.

[smokinfeathers]

I plink with 300gr over 10gr of unique shoots like a popgun quiet n no recoil

[No_1]

I like the light loads in certian applications. In an 16" Contender a 405 LRNFP in front of 11 Grs Unique produced: Ave Velocity - 913 FPS, SD 4 FPS, spread 11 FPS. All rounds assembled one at a time with all charges weighed. Good stuff!

[big bore 99]

Been having lots of fun in my rural backyard with very light charges of Unique and a crimped in .457 round ball. I tumble them in alox and paste wax. Minute of tin can at 30 yds. Right thru both sides.

[Intel6]

As others have said, a collar button mould makes for great lite loads.

NOE moulds did their version http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42_147&products_id=1807 and it makes a great bullet for plinking in my 45-70 lever gun.

I coat mine with Hi-Tek coating and push them out at just under 1,000 fps with 10 grs. of Unique. In the pic below you can see the loaded and unloaded bullet.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Bronze_500.jpg

[GRUMPA]

With Unique so hard to get I wonder how well BE-86 would do in the 45-70. The 2 are rather close on the rate chart, just curious if anyone has tried it yet.

[725]

Lately I've been throwing 215 boolits in the .45-70 with 10.2 gr. of Unique. Ben's Red & LL, of course, too. I like it almost as much as my go to 9.0 unique and a .457 round ball in the .45-70.

[John Taylor]

Be careful with light loads in a large case. I have a trap door that is in pieces because someone tried to use a light load of RX7. Something called detonation can happen and all that's left is pieces. Unique does not seem to have this problem and I have used the 11 grain load for years.

[El Gato]

If you can't find Unique...try Vectan BA9. Grafs and Sons has some. Same burn rate as Unique.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/28770

[tdoyka]

i used a bunch of 405gr fbfn with a load of trail boss. at 50 yards i would say that is quite good(around 1 1/2" with open sights). i'm not a 45-70 fan(fan of 444 marlin) but with light loads it can be fun. i use a handi-rifle at trapdoor loads, although a few tell me i can use ruger loads(OUCH!!!!) for it. i use the 405gr fbfn and 35.0gr of h4198 to shoot deer with. its not a lite load but recoil is on par with a 30-30, meaning it don't bother me much.

[lightload]

I see that the lever gun link has 45-70 loads for Red Dot and Green Dot, both fairly plentiful powders. I remain amazed at the versatility of this old case.

[Shooter6br]

12.5 Unique or Universal. 350g Ranchdog

[McLintock]

I used a Browning '86 rifle, with 26" barrel, in Long Range Big bore Lever Gun matches in Cowboy Action Shooting for over ten years and settled on a load of 22.5 to 24.0 grs of 5744 and a 405 gr bullet for it. Didn't seem to make much difference in that range, but if you went over, the groups started to open up, and at the recommened load of 28 grs they were way bigger. Very accurate, consistent and low recoil, so was very fast to shoot; won the Winter Range National Championship title in 2007 in 21.5 sec with ten hits at 150 yards and in club monthly matches usually was under 25 sec at 180 yards with that load. It also shot very well in several different Browning 1885's we tried it in. I chron'd it and it was around 1150 to 1200 fps if I remember right.
McLintock

[JSnover]

If you can't find Unique...try Vectan BA9. Grafs and Sons has some. Same burn rate as Unique.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/28770
How about the bulk? I haven't tried BA9 yet, would you say equal charges by weight would take up about the same amount of space in the case?
Looking for a suitable sub, since I can't find Unique lately.

[1Hawkeye]

What's a good collar button load using unique I tried 6 grs but had a couple that just barely cleared the barrel the other 18 shot pretty good at 25 yards. The average fps was around 860 if I remember right but the exterime spread was horrible and we won't even mention the standard deviation.

[swamp]

9.5gr. Unique has been working for me.
swamp

[GRUMPA]

Now that I have a NOE collar button mould coming in I'll need some lite load data for those.

Something other than Unique since even finding it can be unique all in itself.

[osteodoc08]

Now that I have a NOE collar button mould coming in I'll need some lite load data for those.

Something other than Unique since even finding it can be unique all in itself.
I've been using it with 23gr IMR 4227. I use it for cans up close and plinking. Never put it to paper for accuracy.

[17nut]

12grains of Tinstar (Vv equivalent of TrailBoss) under a 185gr NOE:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Marlin/45-70%20collar%20buttonjpg_zpsbeyddwu4.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Marlin/45-70%20collar%20buttonjpg_zpsbeyddwu4.jpg.html)

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=42_147&osCsid=h75di4isn0rdef8iemur257o00

Pure fun and zero recoil.
From a 26" barrel we're talking 10kpsi and @1340fps

[osteodoc08]

12grains of Tinstar (Vv equivalent of TrailBoss) under a 185gr NOE:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Marlin/45-70%20collar%20buttonjpg_zpsbeyddwu4.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Marlin/45-70%20collar%20buttonjpg_zpsbeyddwu4.jpg.html)

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=42_147&osCsid=h75di4isn0rdef8iemur257o00

Pure fun and zero recoil.
From a 26" barrel we're talking 10kpsi and @1340fps


I've been wanting to get my hands on skem
TinStar. How do you like it?

[GRUMPA]

He would have to mention what powder he uses....from another country. Like that does us over here much good.

[osteodoc08]

He would have to mention what powder he uses....from another country. Like that does us over here much good.

We have Tin Star here. I've passed it up before in favor of my Trail Boss. I would still like to try it.

[TXGunNut]

VV powder is available here and there. My limited experience with it has been quite good, haven't seen Tinstar yet but it sounds promising.

[Irascible]

My "light" load is 10gr of 2400, then fill the case with shot buffer (ground up plastic) and seat the 300gr bullet letting it compress the filler and hold the powder against the primer. It's accurate past 100 yds.

[GRUMPA]

I received my collar button NOE 186gr mould in today and cast up a few. Now for you folks that have used these types of bullets here's a question. With the not-so blunt tip on them, would it be safe to load the tube or do you folks just go 1 in the chamber and 1 in the tube?

I have no clue just yet how much recoil those have using gallery load data. I have them sized but I'll PC them tomorrow and let them age for a week because of the alloy I'm using..

[swamp]

I think that if I were going to use them in a lever, I would use a flat nose punch when sizing to flatten the nose a bit. I have the NEI mould. I use it mostly in my single shots.

Or just use as a two shot, like you said.
swamp

[Irascible]

Collar buttons are for light loads, There is plenty of flat nose for that. Don't forget people have been shooting the 500gr RN for many years and those suckers kick hard

[Irascible]

Actually if you read through http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm Red Dot can be used but not recommended but Green Dot seems to be highly recommended. Seems that his basic premise is to use any double based flake or disc powder, with some slightly better than others.
Loaded some of NOE's collar button bullets over 12gr of green dot. A pretty fair load, but I'll search for better accuracy first by trying less Green Dot and then some other powders. Round feeding issues cropped up in my 1895 Cowboy model, I don't know how someone seated the complete bullet inside the case and still had it feed? Mine was crimped, lightly, just at the top of the grease groove, just enough to keep the bullet from being pushed in by the magazine spring. This may become a bullet only for offhand practice with my 1885, unless I find a way around the feeding problem.

[quail4jake]

300 gr. RNFP and 16 gr Trail boss, great @ 100 yds. really fun rainbow trajectory and delayed clang @ 400 yds. Works great in '74 Sharps and Remington rolling block!

[GRUMPA]

Tried the 14gr of Unique this morning, it was OK I guess but I want something even lighter. Went in my room and loaded 2 with 10gr of Unique and used them, now that's what I'm looking for. Accuracy I have no clue yet, right now I'm after recoil, but accuracy will be tried next. Now I need to find a substitute for Unique, I don't have much left of that.

EDIT: This is using the NOE .460-186-CB AKA a Collar Button boolit

[Greg S]

I'm following along as I have the same mold coming. I've got both Unique and 2400 and some new brass.

[GRUMPA]

2400 around here is like me showing you my hens teeth collection. I'm limited as to what I can work with and data for those super-duper lite loads is dang hard to find.

[Irascible]

I shot some more with the Williams sighted 1885 and the collar button loads. 12 gr of Green Dot in 7 shots gave an average velocity of 1533 fps with a standard deviation of 11. Very light kick and all 7 went into a center to center group 3/4"wide by 7/8" high at 50yds. Very clean burning and no leading.
I only used a bag of plastic pellets from a bean bag chair, perched on top of a cement block as a front rest. I'd bet if I put the scope back on and used my good rests this combo will shoot less than an inch at 100. I say that, but I really don't know how this bullet will stabilize at further distances. We'll see.

[Gunslinger1911]

I also use the "normal" 405g for regular loads.
I'm starting to experiment with a 45SAA mould (290g) and an NOE 240g swc , double powder coat to bump up diam, some Trail Boss, FUN !
pb gas check if I want to run hard.
And yes, I tried the aluminum tape on the mould first - wasn't happy with it.

[Intel6]

I have shot a few hundred of the NOE collar button bullets with 10 grs of Unique through my 1895 with no issues. If there was going to be a problem with the bullet not having a flat enough tip I think Al at NOE would have made it flatter.

[GRUMPA]

I have shot a few hundred of the NOE collar button bullets with 10 grs of Unique through my 1895 with no issues. If there was going to be a problem with the bullet not having a flat enough tip I think Al at NOE would have made it flatter.

When I tried them I had them in the tube, worked like a champ, no issues at all. I'm very pleased with that 10gr of unique, talk about a fun round to use.

[Irascible]

Has anybody seen a collar button bullet for the 40-65?

[smokeywolf]

10 grains of Unique under just about anything is magic in 45-70. Was using 10 grains of Unique under a very soft 405 grn. boolit, fired out of a Trapdoor about 45 years ago. It was one of the first cartridges I loaded on my own, unsupervised.
You could shoot it for hours at a time. On crossed sticks with original sights, out to 200 yds. (with 17 year-old eyes) you could, with boring regularity, keep it in a 2-1/2 ft. circle.

[FredBuddy]

Matt:

As Gunslinger said in post 41, you can powdercoat 45ACP and 45Colt boolits up to size for 45-70 lite loads. Paper patching is a hoot too. But they are short range propositions. Knowing where you live, you don't have to worry about bouncing 400 gr hunks of lead into the next pasture like I do. But giving an inexperienced shooter the pleasure of shooting a "buffalo" gun without the trauma has its merits.

(from one of your satisfied customers)

[GRUMPA]

I thought about coating a 45 projectile but I wanted something even lighter than what I have a mould for. Then a few weeks back when NOE had there whopper of a sale going on...low and behold....someone had a collar button mould in the S&S section at a good price. Well.....something slapped me in the face and told me to get the mould, and I did.

[NavyVet1959]

With Unique so hard to get I wonder how well BE-86 would do in the 45-70. The 2 are rather close on the rate chart, just curious if anyone has tried it yet.

Over at gibrass.com, there is currently a powder called BR-5 that is supposedly like Unique. It is going for $100 for a 6-lb jug. I bought some of it and some of the IMR7383 recently from him, but I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

[pietro]

Been having lots of fun in my rural backyard with very light charges of Unique and a crimped in .457 round ball.
I tumble them in alox and paste wax.
Minute of tin can at 30 yds.
Right thru both sides.




I've long used a small charge of black powder under the same .457" plain lead ball, and over some kapok, to make very inexpensive "cat sneeze" loads for plinking, small game &, vermin in my .45-70's


.

[Tar Heel]

Be careful with light loads in a large case. I have a trap door that is in pieces because someone tried to use a light load of RX7. Something called detonation can happen and all that's left is pieces. Unique does not seem to have this problem and I have used the 11 grain load for years.

Although this phenomenon (detonation) has not been duplicated in a laboratory, it has been acknowledged by ballistic engineers as "likely." The 45-70 seems particularly prone to it for whatever reason.

[JSnover]

Although this phenomenon (detonation) has not been duplicated in a laboratory, it has been acknowledged by ballistic engineers as "likely." The 45-70 seems particularly prone to it for whatever reason.
Light loads in a case of that size leave an awful lot of empty space. I've done it but only with powders and charge weights that are known safe.
I haven't seen a can of Unique in forever but my stash of SR4759 hasn't run out yet.

[bigted]

i REALLY like the trail boss powder for my lite loads but i stopped using it in 45-70 when the rambunctious allegations of pressure came up concerning this powder. i have a couple vintage 45-70's and DO NOT want to accidently load a heavy pressure round in either one for fear of ruination of a piece of history as well as me and whomever stands beside me.

anybody have added info for this great powder. i love it in my 45 Colt revolvers and have messed with 38-55 with it as well but the argument still rings in my noggin so i am fairly careful to stay on the safe side of things.

thanks for the notes of safe loading in such a cavernous case. i like it too but want to remain safe for me ... my firearms ... and bystanders.

[webfoot10]

When shooting light loads of any kind of pistol powder, fill the case with rice crispies cereal.
When you seat the bullet it will crush the cereal and fill the empty space and keep the powder
on the primer. It will smell like your baking cookies when shot. I only use this filler in straight
wall cases. Safe and may increase accuracy of your load.
webfoot10

[NavyVet1959]

I seem to remember reading a post awhile back (don't remember which site) where someone was wanting to reduce the case capacity of a .45-70 and one idea that was suggested was filling the cases partway with lead or zinc and then drilling a primer hole all the way through the newly poured base.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm fortunate enough to still have 2 pounds of SR4759 on hand and a 1970's 1895. Any suggestions for this powder and the Lee 457-340 or ubiquitous commercial 300 grain RNFP? Looking for an easy to shoot load that is effective on deer out to 100 yards.

[rfd]

12 to 3 grains of trail boss and a light bullet like the lee 457-340-f makes for almost no recoil in a 10# .45-70 sharps rifle. great for getting the grandkids shooting!

[FergusonTO35]

Yesterday I took the Marlin out for some exercise, loads were 10 grains Unique/.458 300 grain Laser Cast LFP and 31 grains H4198/Lee 340 grain unsized with coating of LLA. The 10 grain Unique load was great, very mild recoil and could bullseye it at 50 yards if I did my part. The latter load was not good at all. Recoil was surprisingly harsh and there was significant vertical stringing, I think this boolit may be undersize for my rifle. I still have a good supply of the Laser Cast slugs but those loads used the last of my Unique, which hasn't been seen around here in years. What would be a good starting point with SR4759 and a 300 grain boolit?

[FergusonTO35]

Today I rolled up some loads with 25 grains 4759 and 300 grain Laser Cast slugs. Hopefully I can try them out in the next couple of days. One thing I discovered: this powder works way better in my Uniflow by setting the measure to throw 12.5 grains and then drop twice. Went from very inconsistent to about as good as a coarse, bulky powder can be. Don't worry, I weighed each charge before seating the boolit.

[map55b]

I build a Siamese Mauser in 45-70 and I use a Lee 457-340-F, which drops the boolits at about 350gr loaded over 12gr of Unique. Its a great round for killing tin cans at 50 yards and easy on the shoulder. ;-)

[bigted]

loaded some 14 grain trail boss loads under my 350 grain "accurate molds" boolit ... cast out of pure lead at .460 inch ... the other day after reading this posting and ran em thru my ruger #1 with a Leopold scope on top for sighting. very easy shooters along with absolutely no signs of pressure. i was shooting at 25 yards and can install small 7/8th inch holes as long as i can set there on the bags. very good load and i will load more to try at 50 and 100 yds to see where they group at there.

glad i stumbled onto this posting ... again thanks for starting it.

[JSnover]

Today I rolled up some loads with 25 grains 4759 and 300 grain Laser Cast slugs.

You should do pretty well with that load. I've shot 29 grains of 4759 under a 350 grain jacketed flat point with no problems.

[TCLouis]

I use 10.5 Unique (OLD Bartlet version, not the Russian) with Lee 340 and Ranch Dog 350 (378 gr in my alloy)

gives me 1100 fps and great accuracy at 50, have not shot it any further out.