44 mistake

[Jaybird]

Hello, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction here. Until recently I've only loaded 9mm range ammo, but have gotten into revolvers and lever guns lately. Bought a 629 3" deluxe and a Marlin 94, a ton of unique and what I thought were 44 cal 240 grain laser cast boolits. They were actually 200 grain, which I didn't find out until I loaded 40 with 11 grains of unique and decided to weigh one. I'm more worried about pressure than leading, and was wondering if someone could lead me in the right direction. From everything I've found I should be ok with pressure in the 629, but there's a lot of conflicting info on the interwebs. Sorry for the noob question that I've probably put in the wrong place.

[Wayne Smith]

Probably not in the wrong place for an issue like this. Don't rely on the internet for loading data except powder company websites or bullet company websites. Get yourself a couple of loading manuals and learn how to answer your own question. Look up the loads for the 200 grain boolit and check your load against that. I'm not gonna tell you what you will find, go ahead and find it. It's a good exercise and most of us have done it more than once.

[Desertbuck]

Good on you for catching it. But I have to agree with Wayne Smith get yourself a good old fashioned paper reloading manual or two for the data. Even recipes that are shared you should go back to a physical manual and double check the recipe that was given to you before you even think of trying it! And learn to pay close attention to your gut feeling.
Welcome to castboolits :-)

[starnbar]

What they both said the powder and bullet manufacturing companies spend tons of money to make absolutely sure the loads are safe if you follow their recipe get some reloading manuals if you can't afford a new one the used manuals are just as good and most of them have more data on cast bullets anyway.

[HABCAN]

O.M.G.!! Welcome to our bailiwick, but DO get a few manuals for cross-referencing any proposed loads. What the above posters have said is very good advice.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Jaybird,
welcome to the forum.
Before you shoot cast in that Marlin, do some reading about that. I'll give you a hint, the Saami specs are different for 44 pistol and 44 rifle...the Diameter of the boolit needs to be larger, typically .432

Add to that, the main reason a gun gets lead fouling, is a undersized boolit. So you can imagine the Lead fouling a rifle can get with a boolit that .002 to .003 too small. And trust me, it's much more of a pain to clean the lead out of a rifle, than a short barreled pistol.
Good Luck.

[44man]

Every one is correct but thankfully 11 gr of Unique is a safe load for both guns.
Every laser cast I have held in my hands has been under size so it is a consideration in the Marlin.

[GoodOlBoy]

Jaybird. Everybody is giving you good advice. I would say, however, that the undersized bullet problem is not as much of a problem with the laser-cast bullets. I found out years ago that laser-cast are so hard that they rarely lead (kind why they have that guarantee) It ALSO means that accuracy is not as good if the bullet and the bore don't match well, AND that energy transfer in a critter can be.... well I mean you are poking a 44 caliber hole in it, but still. One of the ways to get a reload manual CHEAPLY is to ask about one in S&S, OR go grab the Hodgdon Annual Reloading Manual 2016 (or any year for that matter) for about $10 off of a magazine rack. Heck even my local wal-mart carries them.

Welcome to the addiction, and I reiterate the congratulations on catching the boo boo. Dang site better to catch it before the hammer falls!

God Bless, and One Love

Richard

[DougGuy]

All good advice.

I should add that Unique is a relatively fast burning powder suitable for cowboy loads in the .45 Colt, many use it in bottleneck rifle cartridges for light loads, and in your .44 it will be suitable for less than magnum loads and light boolits. It's burn rate is MUCH too fast to use for magnum level loads in the .44 with heavy boolits, so keep this in mind. Unique in the .45 Colt can be spiky and unpredictable over 10.0 grains, and your .44 magnum case is pretty darn near the same capacity and so the same degree of unpredictability would be something to keep in mind should you want to use heavier boolits.

When you want to stretch that .44 into some heavier boolit weights, up to 300+gr for hunting deer and hogs, this is where that cartridge really shines but please do not look to Unique for these loads. H-110 and W296 are the go to powder for maximum loadings, this is a slow burning magnum powder that works great in heavier loadings but MUST NOT BE downloaded below published starting weights.

Other powders such as 2400, LilGun, AA#9 are great for less than max loadings with 240gr and above boolits.

If you are in question of a load, or don't have a loading manual, you can go to the powder manufacturer's page and find reliable and safe load data for most any given powder. Alliant and Hodgdon have data for all their powders and many of them are listed with cast boolits as well as j-words.

Good luck with your .44s, and yes you may have to do some experimenting with the rifle to find out what it likes. I would start with .432" boolits and would not be surprised to hear that it needs as much as .434" to get it to behave.

[dudel]

Load data is what you need. From various sources helps you judge better. Loadbooks is a compilation of load data from bullet makers and powder makers. Lots of load data in one place

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/410373/loadbooks-usa-44-remington-magnum-reloading-manual

Or if you are doing 44 Spl
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/177901/loadbooks-usa-44-special-reloading-manual

[1bluehorse]

I will second (or third) what has been said before. Your 11gr Unique load under a 200gr cast bullet in 44mag is a safe load according to my manuals. But please reread what DougGuy wrote. I personally don't like using more than 9gr. of Unique in anything (I know, a lot of folks load it higher, but not me). If a 9gr Unique load, won't fit the bullet and weight in the caliber I'm loading for I look for a different powder. I have used that 9gr. load under a 215gr cast bullet(as cast from my mold) in my SBH and it has performed very well. That is a start load in my old Lyman 44th manual. I believe the 48th I have shows 11gr as start for a 200gr cast bullet (but check that info) but as I said 9gr. is my limit for Unique. For heavier bullets, 240 and up, cast or Jacketed, I look to A2400 or H4227. Either of those will get you to pretty much top level in the 44mag and will compare closely to H110/W296, which (to me) are a bit "touchy"....I will use them (mostly just H110) but I'm da*&ed careful with it, and 95% of that would be for my max. loads in 357mag. It works well there.

[mdi]

The fellers above are correct; get some loading manuals (most manuals are a lot more than just load data with good "how to" sections) and if you choose to shoot lead, get a Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (whether you cast or not). Basic Reloading safety 101; Look up a load for a particular bullet in your manual, then buy components (many fewer headaches that way). Assemble components on your bench (when you get your bullets, cast or jacketed, measure them with micrometers). Write a note with the load data and tape it to your equipment (I stick a note with load data on my powder measure). Check every component ("Right powder? Check." "Right bullets? Check", primers, brass, etc.), and now is the time to double check the load data. Assemble mebbe 10-12 rounds (so you won't have to pull a bunch of rounds when you screw up), take 'em out and shoot 'em and record the results. When you find a safe load that does what you want it to, then load a bunch...

Reloading is a fairly easy task, but you must pay attention to what you are doing with what components!

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun (and stay safe)...

[runfiverun]

11grs? wow.
in the old days we would have started low and worked up to that much powder.
have fun.

[gwpercle]

Jaybird,
The Lyman Manual , 44 magnum w/ 215 grain cast and Unique shows:
starting load - 10.0 grains

maximum load - 13.2 grains

Your load is 1 grain over starting with a boolit that is 15 grains lighter....it is safe but don't take my word for it , Lyman Reloading Handbook and Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook will be your friends when it comes to reloading , get both . Speer and Hornandy also publish good manuals.
Gary

[44man]

Best info yet is to not load too many because you might have noise makers a few times. It is always wise to work loads and even though I don't find a lot of change with Unique as I change loads, your gun might not like some loads. Actually if you ever want heavier and hotter with H110/296, the S&W comes in with 250 to a max of 265 gr boolits. The guns do not do kindly with heavier because of recoil inertia of some parts. Lighter boolits should be OK with faster powders.
When I load a 245 gr boolit in the .44 I found 7 gr of Unique does just fine. It is tin can accurate to 50 yards or a little more.
Unique is a great plinking powder but when I hunt I use 296 and heavy boolits in Ruger's.
2400 can spike if over loaded a little as can Unique. 4227 in a .44? Never again, want a heat sensitive powder that changes with gun heat? I found as long as you never under load H110/296 it will not spike even if you go over a little. Might be the safest powders for heavy loads. Just never reduce below starting loads.

[roysha]

Well lets see. Unique, hmm, an Alliant product. Perhaps if one were to go to the Alliant website and see what they say all this alarmist yammer would be a bit moot. Yes, it is necessary, to a certain degree, to have a couple copies of one's choice of loading manuals, and while I agree taking some random data from some random post on some random site on the internet is not a real good idea, certainly going to the manufacturer's site for data is a reasonable procedure. According to what I found there, Alliant doesn't have data for the 200 grain cast but does have for a 225 grain cast bullet with a recommended charge of 11 grains of Unique. I believe that would indicate that the same charge under a 25 grain lighter bullet would be safe.

I'm not going to comment on your bullet brand since I have never used them and quite probably never will.

I have shot 10s of thousands of 44 MAG rounds through my 629s using 10 grains of Unique, WLP primer, virtually every brand of case that has ever been available, and the Keith bullet cast from, practically speaking, straight WW and weigh an ave. 253 grains, sized .430 and lubed with at one time or another, ALOX, Thompson (both Blue and Red Angel), Micro lube, Carnuba Red and at one point some homemade stuff that was more of a PITA than it was worth even though it did it's job and was dirt cheap.

[MT Chambers]

Melt 'em down, cut the mix with lots of pure lead, get a mold that drops .432", size to match your bore (slug bore), and yer good to go.

[Jaybird]

Thanks for the great advise, but I do have a few manuals, even the laser-cast manual( which the box had 240 grain on it so I used that data, 11 was in the middle). And for my Marlin, it was made in December 2015 and the barrel slugged at .4295, the boolits seem to all be between .4305 and .4315, so using the .001 over rule I figured I would be ok with them. When going through my manuals and powder website data the difference between lead and jacketed seems pretty wide with unique, and from my research the laser cast is somewhere in between. I also loaded some at 9 and some at 10, so I'll just start with those and watch for pressure signs. Also, I'm making ingots this week while waiting on my lee pot, any suggestions for 44 mag molds to start with?

[wmitty]

You might want to try the Lee 240 gr SWC tumble lube mould; it's pretty easy to cast with and since you didn't mention a lubrisizer, it might be a cheap way of getting started casting and shooting quickly and using Ben's liquid lube (easily made at home) will allow the slug's to be tumbled and dried quickly. Welcome to the site!

[Jaybird]

I was looking at that one, as I like the powdercoat that some on YouTube are doing and have all that equipment already. And a lubricizer is next in my list, can't decide between Lyman or rcbs tho.

[Mk42gunner]

Go with the RCBS. It is the same type of luber, i.e. you have to handle the boolit twice, both in and out, but it is built stronger than the Lyman.

It will use most Lyman dies, which are usually cheaper to buy new.

Robert

[Wayne Smith]

Between the two RCBS hands down, both because the threads on the lock nut are larger and because of the way RCBS handles warranty issues.

[mdi]

A website will never replace a published/printed manual (perhaps in 50 years when all books will be in museums, but not now). I can open a couple manuals, place them on my bench and compare loads quite easily. I can jump from the load data to the powder section of my manual to check powder characteristics and back. Even though I could take my lap top to the shop, I prefer to read and honest-to-God book whose batteries never die, and my manuals have never "crashed" nor been out of range for wi-fi.

The "alarmist yammer" is merely years of safe reloading experience being shared with an inexperienced reloader.

[flint45]

I agree with evary one that says get a good manual I say get at least three and those lazer cast will more then likley be to small for the marlin mine needs .433 DIA.

[76 WARLOCK]

I have a 629 and a Ruger Red hawk both need a .432 to shoot well.

[GWM]

I would say get a semi-custom mold that will throw .432-.433 at about 240-250 grains with a gas check. You can size it down if you need to. But usually it would do best at .432 or so.

Check out accuratemolds.com, noebulletmolds.com and mountainmolds.com , they are all great and you won't regret it.

[1bluehorse]

. 4227 in a .44? Never again, want a heat sensitive powder that changes with gun heat? I found as long as you never under load H110/296 it will not spike even if you go over a little. Might be the safest powders for heavy loads. Just never reduce below starting loads.

I've read this from you before, and do not doubt you had issues, but I have not. Hodgdon advertises H2227 as not temperature sensitive. Were you using IMR4227?

[DougGuy]

The "alarmist yammer" is merely years of safe reloading experience being shared with an inexperienced reloader.

^^^^ This, is exactly what it is because with building ammo the most valuable information and the least publicized, is what NOT to do. They don't put that in ANY manual last I checked!

[44man]

I've read this from you before, and do not doubt you had issues, but I have not. Hodgdon advertises H2227 as not temperature sensitive. Were you using IMR4227?
I tried both back in the 80's so I don't know if the formulation was changed since. Seemed to be only in the .44, worked great in the .357 max. As soon as the gun warmed, pressure and velocity would increase.
I used it because everyone on the IHMSA line used it but I wondered why there was so much cussing, then I found out. Going to 296 stopped the problem.
It was so bad my 200 meter sight setting would get to 16 clicks over normal and I still hit the ground 50 meters short. I would center the first shot and had to keep adding clicks for all the rest. I actually turned my gun over to see what was bending! You could see the progression of primer flattening in the box.

[44man]

IHMSA sent me into a world I didn't know existed with revolvers. I found decent tension is needed but most important was every piece of brass has to have the same hold on the bullet/boolit.
I tested endlessly to find even the primer was so important that it led me to the Fed 150 in the .44. I tested from blazing heat to -20°.
I tested H110 against 296 to find only the standard RH liked H110 but today they might come from the same batches, I still only buy 296. Back then Hodgdon got a different burn rate then WW. Every batch is tested and any out of canister powder specs went to ammo makers with their own test equipment. There really was a difference. Working loads did not help even though there seemed to be 1/2 gr slower for H110.
But as I said, you need to be in the 1/2" group area at 50 meters to see. I could read the alloy and even tell you the primer you used if I shot your loads. I got in a lot of trouble and banned a lot with my findings, even got into it with Taffin and Baker.
Did my first shooting yesterday since eye surgery, neighbors came to shoot--YEAH AR but I took my .500 JRH down. I gave it to a neighbor boy and he blew a bottle of water off hand at 50, first shot. I gave him a new bottle but we did not see where he set it and he set the shot one back up. We took turns from the bench and could not knock it down. Went down to find the center was shot out but it had no water in it. The big boolit does not even shake a plastic bottle. Amazing caliber, shot pop cans at 100 and it does not move them. Makes you think you missed. Who would think a 440 gr boolit won't knock a can down?