30-30 boolits and powder

[edadmartin]

My 30-30 Marlin is 1992,a micro groove. Does that limit me shooting in 1300-1600 fps range without Gc ? What is the difference between Ballard and micro groove and the way you should load for each?
i have some MBC 165gr coated rnfp boolits coming and now need a couple of choices for powders that meter well.ive heard about imr3031 and H 4895.probably go to cabelas,but what other powders work well for my boolits? Thanks

[stubbicatt]

Do as you will, but I find that little booklet you can get that has loading data from all the sources photocopied and contained in it and is cartridge specific for the 30-30 very helpful. Lots of powder options in that book. That said, I really like Unique and IMR 4227.

Since you have purchased commercial bullets, I guess you save yourself some of the work of casting the right size, or running your bullets thru a lube sizer. You are also limited to what the vendor sold you. If it works, great! If not?

The differences between micro groove and ballard style rifling in a Marlin are the number of, depth of, and width of the rifling lands in the barrel. There may also be some dimensional differences between them re: groove depth.

HTH.

[OS OK]

170438170439

Could be you have plenty-O-manuals but I thought I'd offer this info from the 1980 copy. You'll have to translate but here's some powders.

170440

[popper]

I'd start with the H4895 as you can download it a bunch (60%). I've gone down to 20 gr. (RD 165 sans GC), no problem in 30/30. 4227 & 2400 (13gr) work good too. May need to try some dacron filler for powder positioning.

[northmn]

Lyman manuals often made their recommendations for cast bullets at 1600 for MG BUT they also used bullets cast to bore size. Generally conventional wisdom recommends .001 over bore like 309 in a 308. For MG many like at least 310 or maybe 311. Generally purchased bullets are also hard cast whereas Lyman uses a softer #2 alloy standard.
I have used both Winchesters and Marlins in 30-30 and with cast. My Marlins have Ballard rifling and both are pretty easy to load cast. I prefer heavier bullets with cast as I feel you get more grip on the rifling and better downrange performance. I used a 188 grain cast bullet sized to 310 successfully. Generally I seem to have better luck with faster powders like Re 7. 4759 also worked well for reduced loads. Cast bullet shooting requires a bit of experimentation which is part of the enjoyment.

DEP

[runfiverun]

I wouldn't even try anything smaller than 311 in a marlin.

I have that book OSOK shows, no I have 2 of them.
I had 3 but I gave one away, it was getting a bit ratty on the edges.
I like it.
anyway I'd be more inclined to try for around 1200 fps with a plain base boolit.
you might not be able to get it and your sights on the same target [had that problem with my 375]
but the groups were pretty good.
7 grs of anything between bulls-eye and herco would be my targeted load.
I have pretty much everything between bulls-eye and herco [including bulls-eye and herco] so I'd probably try green-dot or amercian select or unique.

[edadmartin]

Great info guys thanks.ya know, on hand I have 700x,800x AA#9 red dot ram shot clays and for my 1911 AA#2. I bought some of these when powder was so very hard to get a couple years ago.id like to use up the 800x seems slow enough for rifle.id like some suggestions for starting loads.my bullet is a 165gr rnfp hi tech 18 bh from MBC.
As suggested, I'm also going to get some 3031 or 4895 too. I have 3 manuals and have gone back and forth,sometimes all that info gets jumbled up and that's why this forum is good,it's sets you straight again with practicical useable real world info,especially if you are a novice as Iam with the 30-30.

ive wondered about using faster powders with poly fill,read a couple good articles too
i have done some casting for my 45s, and have the usual equipment,but thought with the old Marlin a coated hard cast would be a good way to start and also see if I like the coatings and see if it prevents leading as advertised.not to mention that I dislike the greasy 45-45-10 process.

[edadmartin]

Anyone know if there is much difference between H4895 and Imr 4895? There close on the H burn rate charts,I wonder if one meters better than the other?

[OS OK]

Anyone know if there is much difference between H4895 and Imr 4895? There close on the H burn rate charts,I wonder if one meters better than the other?

Can't testify between the two but you can look for yourself at actual pictures and measurements of the grain size here...

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=382

OS OK

[runfiverun]

the IMR type is slower.
I use it.
I have a lot of it, I only have 2 lbs of the H-type.

try 8.5-9.0 grs of the 800-x [12-1300fps]
it don't meter worth beans but it does shoot well once you get it in the case.
it's good in the 44 mag too, and makes good shot shell loads.

[northmn]

Poly fills as in the fluff used to hold the powder against the primer in large capacity cases have had some controversy. Some probably did not use enough of it. Powders like AA 5744? or something like that do not need fillers. Also many using Unique claim they don't need fillers. Low velocity plinking loads can be made up with a variety of pistol type powders. Full performance loads take a little more ingenuity.

DP

[bangerjim]

Lyman #3 has lots of great info no anywhere else!

I got mine from a reprint house.

http://www.cornellpubs.com/index.php


Good people.

banger

[retiredPO]

AA-5744 was the ans for my marlin..... with cast... and I tried a ton.... but got horrible grouping, my gun groups and shoots great with
jacketed, but it was a beast with cast..... 5744 was a god sent.......

[44man]

I have measured slugs from Ballard and MG Marlins and found little difference. Both had rifling the same depth of .003". Bores were the same too. Still needed larger boolits.
Maybe they are not all the same gun to gun but that is what I found. I think the more lands and grooves of the MG is better then what they called "ballard."

[Griff]

Have you done any reading at all? The answers to your questions are all on the internet... and you don't even have to sort thru the chaff, for there are many manufacturer's that give you bona fide, reliable data. But, like others here, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and the few things I've gleaned from my mentors, 40 years of reloading experience, thousands of hours of research & load development time, thousands of rounds downrange 35 years of casting experience, and thousands of hours sitting in front of a pot, thousands of those boolits downrange... all in an effort to keep you and the other folks around you SAFE... answers in red, (disclaimer, some of this is my opinion, YMMV, as might others)
My 30-30 Marlin is 1992,a micro groove. Does that limit me shooting in 1300-1600 fps range without Gc? There's a question, the correct answer is: It Depends. On several factors, chief among them are: How hard is the bullet, normally referred to as Bhn; what is the bullet diameter; and, what is your groove diameter?
What is the difference between Ballard and micro groove and the way you should load for each? I'll do the hard part for you... click on this link: Differences between Ballard & Microgroove Rifling. (https://www.google.com/search?q=differences+between+ballard+%26+microgroo ve+rifling&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gfe_rd=ssl&ei=SvZnV678D4io-wWLuJSQCA) That'll give you some reading, with mostly very good information.
i have some MBC 165gr coated rnfp boolits coming and now need a couple of choices for powders that meter well. Coated with what? Molybdenum, powder coated, or ??? Powder metering can depend on what type of meter you're using. But, generally, ball powders meter the best, then flake, then extruded. But, there's always the exception to that.
ive heard about imr3031 and H 4895.probably go to cabelas,but what other powders work well for my boolits? Personally, in the .30-30 I'm very partial to RE7, but have used IMR4320, BL(c)2, AA5744, besides IMR3031. While you're at Cabela's buy at least the current Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (4th ed.), in fact, before buying any powder, the first thing you should pick up is a reloading manual... Since you've ordered cast bullets, the Lyman Cast Handbook with give you really relevant data. But, picking up others by various bullet manufacturers and powder manufacturers will ALWAYS be helpful. Thanks


Great info guys thanks.ya know, on hand I have 700x,800x AA#9 red dot ram shot clays and for my 1911 AA#2. I bought some of these when powder was so very hard to get a couple years ago.id like to use up the 800x seems slow enough for rifle.id like some suggestions for starting loads. I'm inclined to advise NOT using pistol powders until you're comfortable with reloading in general, and then ONLY in reduced loads for plinking. As other commenters have stated. See previous comment about buying reloading manuals. Note, no offense to anyone, but getting your load data from a forum is not the best of ideas, TYOPs do occur.
my bullet is a 165gr rnfp hi tech 18 bh from MBC. Oh, there it is. In which case, I'd say that you can probably push this bullet faster'n you might expect leading with a soft, lead bullet. But, it's still dependent on bullet/groove fit.
As suggested, I'm also going to get some 3031 or 4895 too. I have 3 manuals and have gone back and forth,sometimes all that info gets jumbled up and that's why this forum is good,it's sets you straight again with practicical useable real world info,especially if you are a novice as Iam with the 30-30. See previous comment about forum formulas... Not that most folks don't try hard to give accurate info, but... again... typos happen. Don't get all tangled up in trying to keep all the various data in mind... when comparing loads in various manuals, keep in mind to compare those loads listed for lead bullets to like listings... unless you're shooting VERY hard cast, or GC'd bullets, keep out of the jacketed data.
ive wondered about using faster powders with poly fill,read a couple good articles too Me too, and I'll keep wondering about it. As, everything I've read seems to indicate that fast powders are only for reduced loads, fillers are fraught with potential hazards and I've never seen the point of a "plinking" round. YMMV.
i have done some casting for my 45s, and have the usual equipment,but thought with the old Marlin a coated hard cast would be a good way to start and also see if I like the coatings and see if it prevents leading as advertised.not to mention that I dislike the greasy 45-45-10 process. If you end up liking those store-boughts, you might just like trying real cast bullets and really rollin' your own. In which case you'll end up with a new hobby, more equipment, and less time for plinking, but more ammo readily available without waiting for some UPS guy! ... person! And with a lubri-sizer, I don't find any greasy mess...


Anyone know if there is much difference between H4895 and Imr 4895? There close on the H burn rate charts,I wonder if one meters better than the other?Yep, refer back to those three manuals. Also, Hodgdon, as the distributor for Hodgdon, IMR & Winchester powders has a GREAT website for reloaders. They wouldn't list different load quantities if there wasn't a difference.

One other piece of unsolicited advice, each firearm is a rule unto itself. While my loads are "safe" in various Winch. mdl 94s I happen to own, they might not be in some other rifle. Even someone else's mdl 94 Winch. Data in the manuals is also, likewise safe in their test firearm or barrel, it might not yield similar results in your Marlin 336. Always begin YOUR load development well below the max load listed in whatever manual you're referring to. You'll hear and read different ideas of how much below is 'reasonable'... This is an excellent opportunity to exercise what I refer to as "uncommon good sense."

[OS OK]

Depend on a fellow 'Texican' to give to ya straight! Best reply I've read in a while...'hairballing and spitwadding' in this hobby will get you by the 'shorthairs' pretty dang quick.

[edadmartin]

Griff,got to thank you for the straight answers, hard to get most forums. I'm surrounded by manuals and Internet articles and your comments so I wont ask more questions without sounding lazy or stupid ,which I'm not.
thanks for taking the time to help another newbe Marlin owner out.

[Griff]

Griff,got to thank you for the straight answers, hard to get most forums. I'm surrounded by manuals and Internet articles and your comments so I wont ask more questions without sounding lazy or stupid ,which I'm not.
thanks for taking the time to help another newbe Marlin owner out.No problem, but remember this: the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. (That you shoulda)! There's a guy on another forum who's kinda known for tellin' newbies they don't know enough to ask an intelligent question. Unfortunately, he can do it rudely. I try not to be rude... 'cause while he's right, it ain't any call for rude behavior, God love 'im, he's probably forgotten more about reloading than I'll ever know, but, I know where to look to find out! And that's how I'll answer most questions, as that's how my mentor taught me. And I didn't get him until I'd been reloading for over 10 years! I'd been shown how to reload for my .30-30s & 45 Colts, ONCE! And then my B-I-L disappeared... something about the cops... So I took myself over to the sportin' goods store and bought what I remembered him having... and a Speer manual. And studied the how-to section. Went back & bought some more stuff! Along with a Sierra manual, and learned that there's more'n one way to do this. Pretty much the same, but you can alter the order of some of the steps and you'll still produce good ammo. Then I read about how bench-rest shooters prepare their ammo, and applied some of their anal-retentiveness to my hunting ammo. Which made highly impressive ammo at the range when sightin' in w/my buddies, but in the "real" world, deer or coyotes don't give damn!

So, brother, ask your questions.... before ya know it, you'll be answering some newbie's question!