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Tatume
06-16-2016, 06:35 PM
Sometimes people talk about building a flintlock rifle with fast twist to shoot elongated bullets, but I personally have never seen one. Of course, the traditionalist wouldn't be interested, because the elongated bullet wasn't used in this type of gun. But I've also heard practical objections, the foremost being that the vented barrel is not suitable to the higher pressures associated with shooting an elongated bullet.

Do any of you know the definitive answer? Is it practical, or not?

pietro
06-16-2016, 07:19 PM
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Very practical................

FWIW, once upon a time, I had two (2) flintlock Austin & Halleck .50 Mountain Rifle's - one had a 1:60" twist (for RB's), the other a 1:28" twist (for conical's), each barrel so marked (respectively).

I used the RB rifle for range time & targets; the conical rifle for deer hunting (using T/C Maxi-Hunter conicals).

The accuracy for both rifles was good, and also fairly equal to each other - most likely because those particular rifle's both had a very fast locktime/ignition, with FFFg Holy Black main charges + a 1/4-1/3 panful (just a small splash, really) of the same FFFg for priming.

I dropped several deer with the conical rifle; and killed many a black bulls(eye) with the RB gun. ;)


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Good Cheer
06-16-2016, 08:06 PM
tatume,
Just how accurate I can be with a fast twist flinter is something I'm working towards finding out. Had two barrels rebored to .52 for paper patching off the shelf .50 rifle molds.
38" long percussion and a 26" flinter.
Picking up a pistol scope to use for working up loads.
Wouldn't a .577 flinter to shoot minies could be fun to check out!

Maven
06-16-2016, 08:07 PM
It seemed to work for Thompson Center, their "Firestorm" for example.

rodwha
06-16-2016, 08:28 PM
Lyman has a .50 cal Great Plains Hunter in flintlock.

Plastikosmd
06-17-2016, 07:07 AM
In regards to pressure. I have seen a flintlock slug gun. These operate with very heavy loads

I don't remember what his load data was but my smallest slug gun shoots a nearly 700 gr projectile

charlie b
06-21-2016, 11:41 AM
I had kinda the same question.

Since percussion rifles for heavy bullets and long range have problems with nipples being destroyed by escaping gasses at high pressure...is anything special done to a flintlocks vent hole to keep it from eroding? Could a vent hole be bored and relined if it did erode?

I guess it boils down to how heavy a load is used. If 100gr or less of powder and a less than 400gr bullet then maybe the problem is not as bad?

I've been eyeing that Lyman too.

daschnoz
06-21-2016, 11:54 AM
But I've also heard practical objections, the foremost being that the vented barrel is not suitable to the higher pressures associated with shooting an elongated bullet.

Pressure as caused by the heavier projectile? Ask that person to please explain how it is suitable in a flint lock shotgun with a 1oz (437.5gr by weight) shot load.
https://mymiddlenameissarcasm.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/ed28b-confused-smiley.png?w=273&h=273

I've run 320gr Lee R.E.A.L. boolits through my flint lock (50 cal, using the same charge I use for PRB, 70gr of 3F) with no issues.

Good Cheer
06-21-2016, 02:01 PM
For .58 caliber I've looked at how fast the twist would be made to use an adjustable length plug to make plain base paper patched boolits with the various Lyman minie molds. All the while gazing upon the Pedersoli 1816 and thinking about a replacement .588 bore drop-in barrel with an adjustable rear sight.
Perhaps some day!

Maven
06-21-2016, 03:37 PM
"Pressure as caused by the heavier projectile? Ask that person to please explain how it is suitable in a flint lock shotgun with a 1oz (437.5gr by weight) shot load." ...daschnoz

Excellent observation, daschnoz!

Motor
06-21-2016, 05:08 PM
It seemed to work for Thompson Center, their "Firestorm" for example.

Well before the Firestorm. The Renegade(s) have a 1in48 twist and shoot conical bullets very well. I currently use power belts in both of my flintlock Renegade's for deer hunting. I have shot many different conical bullets from them including some sabots and they all shoot accurately.


Motor

charlie b
06-22-2016, 12:12 AM
"Pressure as caused by the heavier projectile? Ask that person to please explain how it is suitable in a flint lock shotgun with a 1oz (437.5gr by weight) shot load." ...daschnoz

Excellent observation, daschnoz!

Compared to a 500gr bullet with 100-120gn powder?

Good Cheer
06-22-2016, 12:17 PM
And how much windage do you have to crank in for the lateral thrust on the breech?
:Bright idea:

pietro
06-22-2016, 02:37 PM
Could a vent hole be bored and relined if it did erode?




It's common practice - TOTW, for one, sells a variety of vent liners that can be replaced as they erode.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/960/1


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charlie b
06-22-2016, 02:56 PM
I thought I had read about that but had never looked it up, duh. And stainless to boot! Thanks.

Lonegun1894
06-23-2016, 05:33 AM
Pressure as caused by the heavier projectile? Ask that person to please explain how it is suitable in a flint lock shotgun with a 1oz (437.5gr by weight) shot load.
https://mymiddlenameissarcasm.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/ed28b-confused-smiley.png?w=273&h=273

I've run 320gr Lee R.E.A.L. boolits through my flint lock (50 cal, using the same charge I use for PRB, 70gr of 3F) with no issues.

In the interest of trying to help this conversation, and not picking sides...

As per the Lyman Black Powder Handbook, on page 156 it lists a 12ga load of 1oz (437grs) with 3 1/4 drams (89.0grs) powder developing a chamber pressure of 4.580 LUP. Compare that to page 113, where it lists a .50 caliber rifle loaded with 90grs of powder (close enough to 89grs for the 12ga) pushing a 370gr conical (sorry, only conical they list so couldn't match the 1oz goal) which you would think by the above logic should develop less pressure since it is a lighter projectile, but it is listed as developing 11,520 LUP.

I don't remember the formula to figure it out from physics class years ago, but there is a principle that says that the same pressure applied to two different diameter projectiles will be more efficient in the larger projectile. If I am explaining it correctly. So the same powder charge used in a .50 and a .54, to push the same weight projectiles in each, will develop lower pressure in the larger bore. I know this is an oversimplified explanation, but a better brain than mine will have to step up if any of you want details. I just remember the basic theory now that it's just past 0430.

smokinfeathers
06-23-2016, 02:19 PM
Yes the larger the bore the lower the pressure, n heavier the bullet the higher the pressure which is why reloading cartridge rifles u use less powder with heavier bullets. Would also think that a smooth bore would have less pressure than a rifle due to rifling causing more resistance

Good Cheer
06-24-2016, 05:41 AM
Thinking on the flintlock long boolit gun, got to thinking on what bore diameter and boolit weight would provide the furthest useful target shooting or hunting. Don't know that the useful range would necessarily be substantially shorter than the same barrel set up as percussion. But it's something that had caught my interest and gave me a head scratching session.

OverMax
06-24-2016, 08:03 AM
Of course, the traditionalist wouldn't be interested, because the elongated bullet wasn't used in this type of gun. Oh really. You can bet if we today shooter have thoughts of doing those old ancestors of everyone thought about doing long before you or I did. That's the wonderment of owning and liking B/P weaponry. "There always capable."

Lonegun1894
06-24-2016, 09:53 AM
Thinking on the flintlock long boolit gun, got to thinking on what bore diameter and boolit weight would provide the furthest useful target shooting or hunting. Don't know that the useful range would necessarily be substantially shorter than the same barrel set up as percussion. But it's something that had caught my interest and gave me a head scratching session.

I'd say look into the development of the old target rifles. And don't be surprized if you end up with something similar to the (caplock) Whitworth in .451", except in flint in this case.

Good Cheer
06-24-2016, 07:35 PM
Same thoughts here. Only proviso is that I suspect that a little bigger bore is gonna give better results in a flinter.
And yeah, experience may prove the opposite to be true.

Good Cheer
06-24-2016, 07:38 PM
So, anybody putting together a flinter to use those .476 pistol molds?
:drinks: