3F vs. 4F

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I've always used FFFFg powder for priming, but today forgot to bring any. So, I primed with FFFg, which is what I use for my main charges. To my delight, I believe it fires the rifle faster! Maybe it's because the larger granules offer more surface area for the sparks to catch. Anyway, I won't bother with FFFFg priming powder anymore.

Take care, Tom

[rancher1913]

I think it has a lot to do with the gun. I have a flinter that will give me fits unless I use 4f and another that does not seem to care whether its 4f or 3f

[Tatume]

Hi Rancher,

You may have something there. They're all individuals, aren't they?

Take care, Tom

[rfd]

i gave up 4f years ago and only load swiss 3f down the tube and in the pan for flintlock muzzleloaders that run from .32 to .58 calibers (and now i'm adding in a .62 smoothie). one horn does it all. 300 or so years ago the typical bp granulation was at best 2f, but mostly closer to 1f, and yer forced to learn real quick how to make yer firelock work reliably or you starve or die. a lot hasta do with flintlock geometry but by far for me it's how clean the pan, hammer steel and cock are, and with getting a good and proper spark, then it's how ya prep and load for the burn. this kinda also goes hand in foot with the idea that loading needs to require a whole buncha tools to hammer the prb down the barrel. ain't at all needed.

here's a really good hi-def video (with waksupi in it, too), a custom .54 flinter, 65 grains of 3f for tube (and pan), .530 ball with no ball starter needed, spit lube, no wiping needed 'tween shots ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArm7ObVs5c

[Standing Bear]

I am moving the other way. Just had a pound of 7F given to me. That stuff is SUDDEN!!!
TC

[Tatume]

Thanks for the video; that was fun. There's a couple of really nice rifles in there.

[rfd]

love the head gear, too. :grin:

[waksupi]

I have shot enough cases of powder, I can tell you that 4ffff is faster ignition, although 3fff will work fine.

[OverMax]

Hey Thomas: I think how fast a powders ignitions is depends largely on the shower of spark it receives. My rifle at one time had a horrible cast harden frizzen. I was lucky to see 3 successful touch off's in a row. Even with the use of 4-FFFFG. Changed the frizzen & too the brand or flint I was using. The rifles spark shower now has so improved I think my rifle it could ignite any of the 3 common B/powders used.
You Tom apparently have a good spark'er there.

[Good Cheer]

Just been using Jacks Battle in the flinters.
But the fast twist .52 flinter, now that one is gonna have FFg down the barrel.

[KCSO]

Back when we couldn't get 4 F we just used a wooden mortar to crush up some 2F. IIRR Ed Yard did some tests on this back in the early 70's and had actual numbers on the difference. 4F was quickest at 55 thousands of a second. That said I use whatever I got and for a quick load and shoot I don't bother with a priming horn.

[rodwha]

I need a flintlock!

[bedbugbilly]

I think a lot has to do with the individual rifle/smoothbore - how well the lock is tuned - touch hole placement, etc. i.e. every rifle/smoothbore is different.

I custom built a Virginia style rifle one time in .36 with a Durs Egg lock. As much as I played with it, the only thing that I found would do a good job was 4F as far as fast touch off.

I have a .62 Fusil de Chasse that all I use in it is 2F - both down the bore and in the pan. Doesn't really seem to make a difference whether its 2F or 4F in the pan, I get good quick ignition. But, the lock is well tuned and I get the fourth of July when that flint hits the frizzed. Perhaps lock size may come in to play, I don't know.

rfd - great video! And, I agree with you as far as keeping things to a minimum. I sometimes just have to smile when I see someone carrying everything but the kitchen sink in their hunting pouch. I do carry a short starter but I don't always use it - a spit patch between shots works fine in my Fusil and other cap guns. I've never been one to feel the need to have to "hammer" anything down the bore. Been doing things the same way for 50 + years and plenty accurate for my needs.

rfd - as a side note - haven't shot the Lyman GPR that I bought from you yet. Been too busy with trying to get things ready to sell our house - hopefully can initiate it in the next week or so!

[rfd]

bbb -

it can be almost like a game to see how little stuff one can carry afield and yet get the flinter to fire reliably. i started using heavily gato feo lubed patching around the ball and a milk carton wad over the powder and that seems to really keep the fouling down a huge bunch.

enjoy that gpr hawken, i think i need me another! ack! :)