Brand Preference for Taper Crimp Die?

[PBSmith]

This is for .38 Special. Will avoid Lee after reading their taper crimper squashes over-size lead bullets. Or is that a hazard with other brands as well? Don't want the profile crimp, just the standard taper crimp. Thanks.

[3 gun Gus]

Reading taper crimp.

[flashhole]

Redding Taper Crimp

[Weaponologist]

I've not had any issues with my RCBS, That's just what I have now for my 38/357 Taper crimp.. When I started loading them Midway had them on sale so I ordered them. Been working great so far.. I will say Redding has always been my Favorite when I can afford them..

[BK7saum]

If you shoot oversize boolits you might avoid the redding profile crimp die. I had to return 3 of them in three calibers as my 0.002-0.003" oversize boolits were too large and were being sized down. These were 44, 41, and 357 magnum I believe. I was just looking for a crimp only die, but that particular die from redding didn't work for me. Nothing against redding as I have and use many of their dies.

Brad

Just reread the opening post more closely. Why the taper crimp instead of a roll crimp in a rimmed cartridge?

[DougGuy]

Why are you using a taper crimp on a rimmed straight walled cartridge? Taper crimp is for autos that headspace on the case mouth, rimmed straight walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim should use a roll crimp.

Taper crimp doesn't "squash" oversize lead boolits unless you really crank down on it. You are thinking of the factory crimp die with the carbide ring in the bottom.

[r1kk1]

Why are you using a taper crimp on a rimmed straight walled cartridge? Taper crimp is for autos that headspace on the case mouth, rimmed straight walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim should use a roll crimp.


I taper crimp 500 linebaugh for my revolver. Works very well. No bullet jump or cylinder lockup. The same for my 44 Magnum and the wife's 454.

Take care

r1kk1

[flashhole]

I taper crimp for my 45-70. Does an excellent job.

[dudel]

Why are you using a taper crimp on a rimmed straight walled cartridge? Taper crimp is for autos that headspace on the case mouth, rimmed straight walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim should use a roll crimp.

Taper crimp doesn't "squash" oversize lead boolits unless you really crank down on it. You are thinking of the factory crimp die with the carbide ring in the bottom.

Generally that's true (roll crimp for 38Spl); but if your boolit doesn't have a crimp groove or canalure, what do you crimp into? I generally use a projectile style that allows a roll crimp on rimmed straight wall rounds; but not everyone does.

The FCD works just fine, if you aren't using oversized Boolits.

[lightman]

Theres really no wrong answer when shopping for dies. I've only had a couple of sets of dies that did not work correctly and these were not any of the big names. With that said, I've been happy with RCBS and Dillon.

[str8wal]

All I use is RCBS. Never a problem.

[PBSmith]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

The question of, "Why taper crimp?" is answered in the excellent article by John Zemanek, "Effects of Crimping Handgun Ammo," that appeared in Handloader magazine, May-June 1991. The author of that article conducted an extensive series of tests in which he tried different crimp styles and degree of crimp with various loads for the .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and 9mm Luger.

The results of his work burst a few bubbles on the popular misconceptions about best crimps for handgun ammo. Some of those misconceptions still linger around today. Anyone seriously interested in accuracy shooting will want to read the article.

[r1kk1]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

The question of, "Why taper crimp?" is answered in the excellent article by John Zemanek, "Effects of Crimping Handgun Ammo," that appeared in Handloader magazine, May-June 1991. The author of that article conducted an extensive series of tests in which he tried different crimp styles and degree of crimp with various loads for the .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and 9mm Luger.

The results of his work burst a few bubbles on the popular misconceptions about best crimps for handgun ammo. Some of those misconceptions still linger around today. Anyone seriously interested in accuracy shooting will want to read the article.

Dave at CH4D is the one who pointed me towards taper crimping 44 mag. I bought a modified 30 carbine taper crimp die to use on the 327 Federal. It will, if adjusted so, taper crimp down the length of a seated bullet. I'm slowly moving towards tc other rounds.

Does someone have a reprint of the article?

take care

r1kk1

[Maven]

Hornady taper crimp die for the .38Spl. and Redding for the .44Mag. Btw, I see no differences in accuracy when taper crimping v. roll crimping with mild loads in either cartridge. "Mild" means 4.4gr. Unique with either the RCBS PB Keith or Lee SWC-TL in the .38Spl. and 8.0gr. Unique + Ly. PB Keith, RCBS copy of it, or the Lee SWC-TL. Btw, I taper crimp because it eliminates the problem of roll crimping with slightly varying case lengths, especially with the aforementioned Lee TL CB's.

[Char-Gar]

I have RCBS taper crimp dies in several calibers (including 38/357) and they work just fine for me.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

The question of, "Why taper crimp?" is answered in the excellent article by John Zemanek, "Effects of Crimping Handgun Ammo," that appeared in Handloader magazine, May-June 1991. The author of that article conducted an extensive series of tests in which he tried different crimp styles and degree of crimp with various loads for the .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and 9mm Luger.

The results of his work burst a few bubbles on the popular misconceptions about best crimps for handgun ammo. Some of those misconceptions still linger around today. Anyone seriously interested in accuracy shooting will want to read the article.

I have been around the serious handgun loading scene for many years. I have read many such articles in pulp gun magazines based on extensive testing and they do not agree. It makes a fellow wonder when you get different results when different people write articles. The bottom line is do not dismiss conventional wisdom in the matter of crimping based on one such article. Folks have been reloading millions and millions of round for the various handgun rounds for a century or more and they have not all be idiots duped by others.

There is a place for taper crimping in handgun loading, but it is not some magic secret that produces the nee plus ultra in accuracy. Take these pulp gun rag stuff with a grain of salt, as much of it is written just to sell what somebody writes and much of it is some level of nonsense.

[Outpost75]

This is for .38 Special. Will avoid Lee after reading their taper crimper squashes over-size lead bullets. Or is that a hazard with other brands as well? Don't want the profile crimp, just the standard taper crimp. Thanks.

Are you loading HBWC bullets for a semiauto match pistol? If so then the taper crimp is correct.

In light target loads for revolvers approximating factory wadcutter ammunition up to old style standard pressure 158-grain
lead "service loads" (NOT +P) it will also be highly satisfactory.

BUT for +P loads with bullets heavier than 125 grains it probably will not be adequate to prevent inertial dislodgement of the bullet in the revolver cylinder from recoil, and may cause excessive velocity variations to to changes in seating depth and loading density caused by the dislodgement, based upon firing sequence of rounds in the cylinder.

The only place I can see for taper crimping of revolver ammunition is if you must make-do when loading bullets which lack a crimping cannelure. Roll crimping has worked best in my experience for +P and magnum ammunition to resist inertial dislodgement and to provide sufficient shot-start resistance to ensure ignition of slower powders, to prevent the bullet from being dislodged by the primer blast, reducing load density during initial powder ignition.

When using the faster suitable powders like Bullseye, 231, TiteGroup in the .38 Special, this is not a factor and with 148-grain wadcutter bullets no crimp is necessary at all, other than to remove mouth flare and to provide a slight mouth radius to aid semi-auto feeding in match pistols.

[Char-Gar]

Hornady taper crimp die for the .38Spl. and Redding for the .44Mag. Btw, I see no differences in accuracy when taper crimping v. roll crimping with mild loads in either cartridge. "Mild" means 4.4gr. Unique with either the RCBS PB Keith or Lee SWC-TL in the .38Spl. and 8.0gr. Unique + Ly. PB Keith, RCBS copy of it, or the Lee SWC-TL. Btw, I taper crimp because it eliminates the problem of roll crimping with slightly varying case lengths, especially with the aforementioned Lee TL CB's.

Straight up truth! To produce accurate handgun ammo with a roll crimp or a profile crimp requires cases of uniform length with square mouths. That is why I am a case trimming fan. If you are not going to take the time to trim cases, a taper crimp is a way around the issue, within pressure limitations of course.

[DerekP Houston]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

The question of, "Why taper crimp?" is answered in the excellent article by John Zemanek, "Effects of Crimping Handgun Ammo," that appeared in Handloader magazine, May-June 1991. The author of that article conducted an extensive series of tests in which he tried different crimp styles and degree of crimp with various loads for the .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and 9mm Luger.

The results of his work burst a few bubbles on the popular misconceptions about best crimps for handgun ammo. Some of those misconceptions still linger around today. Anyone seriously interested in accuracy shooting will want to read the article.

Thank you for sharing the info behind your decision, I'd like to read the article myself now! I am fairly new to reloading still so I just go by what my manual says or what I can figure out on here.

[Char-Gar]

Are you loading HBWC bullets for a semiauto match pistol? If so then the taper crimp is correct.

In light target loads for revolvers approximating factory wadcutter ammunition up to old style standard pressure 158-grain
lead "service loads" (NOT +P) it will also be highly satisfactory.

BUT for +P loads with bullets heavier than 125 grains it probably will not be adequate to prevent inertial dislodgement of the bullet in the revolver cylinder from recoil, and may cause excessive velocity variations to to changes in seating depth and loading density caused by the dislodgement, based upon firing sequence of rounds in the cylinder.

The only place I can see for taper crimping of revolver ammunition is if you must make-do when loading bullets which lack a crimping cannelure. Roll crimping has worked best in my experience for +P and magnum ammunition to resist inertial dislodgement and to provide sufficient shot-start resistance to ensure ignition of slower powders, to prevent the bullet from being dislodged by the primer blast, reducing load density during initial powder ignition.

When using the faster suitable powders like Bullseye, 231, TiteGroup in the .38 Special, this is not a factor and with 148-grain wadcutter bullets no crimp is necessary at all, other than to remove mouth flare and to provide a slight mouth radius to aid semi-auto feeding in match pistols.

More straight up truth!

[Char-Gar]

Re: Redding Profile Crimp dies

When these above referenced dies came on the scene, they received rave reviews by several popular gun writer, so naturally I bought a full set in all handgun calibers available. These dies product a hybrid taper and roll crimp.

I still have them and have not found them to be of much use and certainly not superior to traditional roll and taper crimp dies. I have found them to be superior in only one case. I have been loading the short 45 Cowboy Special cases with 452423 (242 grain SWC) for use in 45 ACP cylinders in several single action revolvers. These are fairly stout loads (4.5 to 4.8 BE) and to keep the bullet from jumping the crimp, a pretty serious crimp is required. A serious roll crimp will keep the rounds from chambering freely in the tight charge holes. A profile crimp will allow the rounds to drop in freely and still keep the bullets where they belong. Under these circumstances, the profile crimp is the right tool for the job, but otherwise, I have not found them superior in any way.

In case you don't know it, there is a symbiotic relationship between gun gizmo makers, gun rag publishers, and gun rag writers. Truth often gets lost in the mix.

[dudel]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

The question of, "Why taper crimp?" is answered in the excellent article by John Zemanek, "Effects of Crimping Handgun Ammo," that appeared in Handloader magazine, May-June 1991. The author of that article conducted an extensive series of tests in which he tried different crimp styles and degree of crimp with various loads for the .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and 9mm Luger.

The results of his work burst a few bubbles on the popular misconceptions about best crimps for handgun ammo. Some of those misconceptions still linger around today. Anyone seriously interested in accuracy shooting will want to read the article.

That's interesting, though I'm not sure what the 9mm Luger is doing in the list. I haven't see it ever roll crimped since it headspaces on the case mouth.

It's going to be fun to test. I'm loading up some mid range 357Mag with 2400. I normally give them a good crimp. I'll load up 10 with a taper crimp (Hornady) and see how they do at the range this afternoon. Hopefully I'll remember to bring the chronograph. I've got two guns where I think this can be done safely and without the fear of lockup or setback (a Contender and a Handi Rifle).

I like Zemanek as an author AND I like Handloader magazine; but I've found (like CG) too often contradictory articles (depending on what the author is trying to prove or disprove).

One tip from Handloader that has worked for me is using SPP primers in 22Hornet (vs SRP).

We will see.

[PBSmith]

I suspect my original post and mention of Mr. Zemanek's article in Handloader might have been interpreted by some to mean that the taper crimp is best, period. That's not what I said, and that's not what Mr. Zemanek wrote.

Quite to the contrary, his conclusion is that finding the best crimp for any given load is a "c . . pshoot" (his word, not mine). What I gleaned from the article is that if you want to know what crimp is going to give best results for any one load, try them all because you might be surprised.

The Zemanek article is available online at:

www.riflemagazine.com/backissues/index.cfm (http://www.riflemagazine.com/backissues/index.cfm)

Select the right magazine (Handloader), scroll down to June 1991, ignore "available only on CD-ROM," click on "sample issue download pdf."

[Rockzilla]

Dave at CH4D is the one who pointed me towards taper crimping 44 mag. I bought a modified 30 carbine taper crimp die to use on the 327 Federal. It will, if adjusted so, taper crimp down the length of a seated bullet. I'm slowly moving towards tc other rounds.

Does someone have a reprint of the article?

take care

r1kk1

That was one of the dies I was about to mention, have a bunch of his taper crimp dies, no problems, no issues.
Even have taper crimp dies in .223 from Dave.

Now with taper crimped "stout" .44mag loads with 2400, some times, no all
the time, the bullets start to come out, with those loads I roll crimp, but
as mentioned I make sure all cases are of the same length.

-Rock

[fecmech]

I have owned a CH taper crimp die for a long time and use it exclusively for all my .38spl thru max .357 mag loading. I don't have any problems with bullet pull in mag loads or uniform ballistics. My primary mag loads are 358429 and 15grs./296,13.5/2400 or max loads of AA9. I believe ballistics are determined by bullet pull and crimp is meaningless. In the past I shot identical loads over the chrono using 2400 and 296 using taper and roll crimps to see for myself. Velocities and extreme spreads were pretty much the same with both crimps. I don't trim cases so it makes life easier for me. I don't know if taper crimp would work in the heavy bullet .45 Colts, .44 mags or the 13oz. titanium .357 mag bullet pullers!

[r1kk1]

I guess you guys didn't see the post where I taper crimp 500 Linebaugh rounds with no cylinder lockup or bullets pulling loose. I believe the recoil is a tad more than the 44 mag. i taper crimp a 44 load with 255 grain lead pills and no problems, even exiting the barrel at 1570 fps. So the Linebaugh pushing 350 grain bullets at 1450 fps doesn't present a problem.

Take care

r1kk1

[W.R.Buchanan]

Dave at CH4D is the one who pointed me towards taper crimping 44 mag.


Me too, and I have used it successfully on my .44's and the C&H die does a perfect taper crimp right into the crimp groove of the boolits. At that point it is nearly the same as a Roll Crimp, just a slightly different shape.

Randy