Swedish Rolling Block

[The Ozzman]

Hey guys.

It's been a while, I have not gotten much done on my springfield trapdoor, hence no posting in that topic. Have been making some arrangements for a chamber iron for it, so that will be good.

My current question relates to the strength and quality of the Swedish Rolling Block rifles, particularly in 8x56R Danish.

I have opportunity to get one of these, it would go nicely in my Old West theme, though it's not actually made in the US of course. My understanding is that these were made under licence from Remington in local calibres.

My searching indicates the 8x56R has similar ballistics to a 30-30...though I am not 100% sure. I also found that some regard the Swedish Rolling Blocks as some of the best ever made.

So, if you know anything or even better, own one, I would love to hear from you. Or if you know anything about the round (8x56R) I would also be grateful to hear from you. Will it take holy black? I imagine so.

Would you chose one of these over a Martini Henry in 577-450? One of those is for sale too, listed as good, dark bore but still defined rifling. The Swede is listed as very good.

Cheerio

Ozz

[marlinman93]

The Swede Rolling Blocks are a very well made smokeless action when found in the 8x56R caliber. The cartridge is much more potent than the .30-30, although I'm not sure I'd fire some of the factory loaded ammo in a Rolling Block, as it can be fairly hot in some loads. It's closer to a .30-40 Krag in velocity, and the Krag makes an acceptable donor brass to reform and use in the Danish Roller. Slightly smaller rim size, but they usually extract fine if you don't have any case sticking issues.
It will make a great cast bullet gun, once you get the right bullet around 200 grains, and proper diameter for your bore.

[Boz330]

Bought one for the action used in the pics. Shot it in the original configuration for a couple years before rebarreling & restocking to 40-65.
It shot very well with smokeless and cast. I tried BP but fouling was horrendous. My brass was from Buffalo Arms made from 45-70 and with BP it held a tremendous amount of powder. The boolit I used was the LEE special 32 cal Maximum, I believe. It was a custom mold and dropped around 329 and I resized to 325.
Depending on price I sure wouldn't shy away from one. BTW the Martini Henry rifles are fun as well.

Bob

[waarp8nt]

I bought two of the Swede Rifles and they were in 8x58R Danish. From my understanding the 8x56R Hungarian can be used as a parent case to form the 8x58R Danish. I am currently in the reading up stage of the process and have yet to reload for it. Maybe some were chambered in 8x56R too, but the centerfire Swede Rolling Blocks I have seen were 8x58R Danish or 12.7x44.

I plan to use the Maximum mold from Midsouth Shooters Supply and the 8x56R Hungarian brass from Graf and Sons as a parent case to form the 8x58R Danish. CH4D sells dies that are less costly than RCBS, plus CH4D will make any extra "M" style expander die for use with cast boolits for a minimal cost.

Again...I have yet to reload, but this is what some internet searching has lead me to believe and its they way I want to go, unless someone smarter than me chimes in with some words of wisdom.

[The Ozzman]

Thanks guys-just a quick post I am heading out shortly.

Pleased to hear info on the gun and cartridge.

The one I am looking at is $795, bear in mind things in Australia are generally more expensive than the US, across the board not just guns.

Here is a picture:
170187

According to seller the Swedish military cut the fore stocks around 1900 so as to sell them as sporters, seller tells me barrel approx 32 inches (or maybe 34 he said). I would be keen to get an original fore end. He tells me they have not fired much if at all.

[waarp8nt]

Here in the U.S. the selling price for the sporters in 75% to 90% condition range from $300 to $400 dollars and those that still have the military forearm are $400 to $500 in similar condition. Near perfect rifles can go higher depending on condition and how complete. Barrels are typically 30 to 33 inches, but can vary length a little longer or shorter.

Here are two of the better sites on the rifles. They explore loads, case forming and more. This forum has a wealth of knowledge on the subject, I have spend a few rainy afternoons searching it.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/rb.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?22807-Fun-with-the-8x58R-in-a-Swedish-RB

[texasnative46]

Boz330,

Now that is a downright PURTY stock. That's got about as many stripes as an average tiger.

yours, tex

[enfield]

I get by fine with 8x56 Hungarian brass, 4759 powder ( 17 - 19 grains is a nice shooting load ) and the Lee .329 mould (for cheap ) or a nice NOE .326 215 gr PB mould . A set of decent sites and your all set.

[Boz330]

I get by fine with 8x56 Hungarian brass, 4759 powder ( 17 - 19 grains is a nice shooting load ) and the Lee .329 mould (for cheap ) or a nice NOE .326 215 gr PB mould . A set of decent sites and your all set.
That is the powder that gave me the best results, 18 gr would give 2 minute groups all day and pleasant to shoot as well. I don't remember the velocity though.


Bob

[Boz330]

Boz330,

Now that is a downright PURTY stock. That's got about as many stripes as an average tiger.

yours, tex


That came from Treebone and the guy really took care of me on that one. I was very pleased!.

Bob

[marlinman93]

That came from Treebone and the guy really took care of me on that one. I was very pleased!.

Bob

George loves Rolling Blocks, and seems to keep his best wood for RB projects.

[The Ozzman]

Thanks again guys for the helpful tips, sounds like reloading is well within the reach of the average loader.

Quick question, based on the photo I posted, would you pick the top one or bottom one? I'm thinking top due to all screws present, sling swivel and ladder sight.

Thanks
Ozz

[leadman]

I would pick the one with the best bore. I have one and Boz set me up with his brass and mold. I have reformed a few 45-70 just to do it also and it works fine but is a little short in the neck. 45-90 would be better but the price is high on the brass. Buffalo Arms usually has reformed brass and dies ready to go. I reform the brass with the full length die.
I use 12grs of Unique with the Lyman 160gr Loverin RN GC and it is very accurate for a plinking load. I use 22grs of SR4759 with the Lee Maximum at 235grs for a hunting load and it groups about 2" to 3" at 100yards and about the same at 200 yards. I do have a tang sight on it.
If you look on the right side of the barrel just in front of the action you might see the date the conversion from black powder rimfire of about 43 caliber to the 8mm Danish. From what I have read the action was heat treated and the blocks were replaced.
Be aware of the differences in the 8X58RD for the Krag and the RB. Dutchman's page has good info on this. If you find and Article by Bob Shell DO NOT load like he did! He ended up having the action sidewalls bowing out on him.
If the action of the blocks let loose they tend to end up in a place that is very bad for the shooter.
Mine is one of the guns I really like to shoot, even took it for antelope but did not get a shot. May try it for elk also this year.

[marlinman93]

I would agree with "leadman" on picking the best bore. The sling swivel doesn't matter to me, and the screw is easy to replace. If the bores are equal, and prices equal, then choose the best condition.

[Drm50]

Some time ago I bought several guns off a estate. There was a Rolling Block carbine in 8mm?
Was not Remington made, reciever was nickeled with Anchor & Rope stamping. One guy said
it was a Naval Cadet rifle from Norway.??? Brought a good buck at auction, never had ammo
for it.

[flint45]

Ione but bought it for the action. it was supposed to be action only but when it got here it had the barrel still on it. Thougt about using it but bore was very bad action was great made it into a .50-70 great rifle lots of fun.

[Dutchman]

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/GB8x58RD.html

[Tom Herman]

Thanks for listing the link, Dutchman! That was GOOD information!

-Tom

[MRGoodwin]

171659
My Swedish roller in 50-70 Govt

[enfield]

Did somebody say Sweden 171686

[enfield]

woops , somehow I got some non Swedes in the pic.

[texasnative46]

enfield,

That's OK.

I cannot even FIND a Swede. - Instead, I have recently purchased a NYS Naval Militia musket in .50-70 & a Danish musket in 11.7x56R.
(Swedish military R-M are scarcer than hen's teeth in this area.)

yours, tex

[Eamonn]

I would really like one of these but in a more versatile cartridge like 7x57r or 8x57r. They look really slick and you can't get more user friendly.

Here's a page with a bit of information about mostly swedish military arms. It's the english version so they might have articles that are not translated but there is always google translate:
http://www.gotavapen.se/index_english.htm

The specific article about the rolling blocks is here:
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/remington/remington.htm

[17nut]

enfield,

That's OK.

I cannot even FIND a Swede. - Instead, I have recently purchased a NYS Naval Militia musket in .50-70 & a Danish musket in 11.7x56R.
(Swedish military R-M are scarcer than hen's teeth in this area.)

yours, tex

Only it is'nt!

Fewer than 200 were made in the 1880's and they are scarcer than rocking horse poop here in Denmark.


Here is a resume i wrote some time ago to adress the confusion about chamber length:




Danish Rolling Blocks and chamber length confusion

The original Danish RB round was 11.4x41.5R rimfire. Load was 52grains in 1867 and changed to 60 grains of BP behind a 385 grains boolit.
Denmark ordered 20000 rifles from Remington to be delivered within 6 months. That backfired for Remington because Sheffield could not deliver enough barrels.
The Danes got to make their own RB’s without paying royalty as a result.
5 production lines was set up and each of them had a master gunsmith which was in charge of quality. Each smith had to manufacture his own set of Go-No Go gauges and have them certified by the factories master controller. This becomes important later!
All is well and from 1867 to 1878 @78500 RB’s are manufactured.
In 1884 the Danes start to develop a replacement for the RB and at the same time they start to ponder a way to modernise the RB’s. In 1896 they were officially converted to: Smokeless, centerfire and jacketed bullets.
And now comes problems in heaps falling on the arsenal, Because of the 5 different Go-No Go tools it is clear that bores range from 11.25mm~.443” to 11.75mm~.463”. You can’t design a standard round with jacketed and smokeless that will work within those ranges with any kind of accuracy and without huge variations in pressure. So a LARGE long throat is devised to size the bullets for the smaller bores.
That is why some Danes will chamber a 45-90 without problems and why the 11.4x56R thought exists.

In the development of the final cartridge choices in smokeless was dismal and experiments led to the 56mm cartridge. But that meant grinding down the hammer for chamber access and that was dismissed along with slower reloading of the rifle. Only @200 rifles were ever converted and they can be easily identified by the ground down hammer.