Using .38 s&w resize die for .38 spl resizing

[lightload]

On this site I learned that seating cast bullets may size down the boolits if certain conditions exist. When seating the full length wadcutter boolits, the possibility for this sizing down may occur deeper or lower down the case since the expander button may not hit this area. So I wonder then if using the larger diameter .38 S&W resize die might prevent this event especially when seating .359(or larger)diameter boolits? Of course I'm assuming that this die would resize the case enough to start with.

This problem very well not exist. If it does, then I suspect that carbide dies cause it.

[runfiverun]

you could just back off a tapered steel die.
the carbide ring sizes to one size.
the larger 38 S&W die might work it'd just depend on the brass thickness and the dies diameter.

BTW I neck size my 358 win cases with a steel 38 special die.
it's all about the size of the hole in the steel and the diameter of the case etc..

[Outpost75]

Your observation is correct with modern dies, because carbide inserts reduce cases to hold jacketed bullets tightly, and expander plugs are also undersized.

Generally the expander plug should be no smaller than 0.002" under bullet diameter for autopistols in which bullets are taper crimped, and 0.0015" for revolver cartridges which will be roll crimped.

Sizing dies reduce case diameter to hold the MINIMUM sized bullet, and expander plugs are also based on being able to achieve adequate bullet pull with the minimum sized bullet. Therefore if using soft lead bullets of larger diameter, they will likely be deformed in the seating process. RCBS Cowboy dies are dimensioned for lead bullets and don't size the cases quite as much.

Using .38 S&W dies will work if you are using fired brass from the same gun, but won't reduce the case body diameter close to the head, so could cause chambering problems if brass fired in a sloppy chamber and tried in a gun with a tighter one.

[JWFilips]

Factory Dies Size for Jacketed bullets: Yes I size my 38 Spec in 38 S&W dies... I size my 38 S&W in 9 Mak dies.
I shoot cast boolits not Jacketed FWIW
Jim

[lightload]

JW, what seater die do you use for .38 spl?

[Char-Gar]

38 Special dies vary in how much they resize cases. I will try and give you a comparison, although columns seldom work here. These are the same lot of Lake City 80 brass.

RCBS Carbide (1986) - mouth .371 Mid case 371 base .377 Mouth ID .351
RCBS Steel (1957) - mouth .371 Mid case .3765 base .3775 Mouth ID .351
Lyman 310 FL - mouth .376 Mid case .377 base .379 Mouth ID .3565

So you can see, there is quite a variance in how much the sizing dies reduce the fired cases.

The Lyman 310 FL is for the Tru-Line Jr. tool as the 310 tong tool does not have enough leverage to full length resize the case. As you can see by the numbers, it reduces the case less than any other, but it still will chamber in all of my 38/357 handguns which number about 12 now. I use it for most of my 38 Special sizing and it produces cases that fit the cylinders well and requires less expanding to seat the bullets. I also have a couple of old Lyman Shell Resizers for the 38 Special which produces sized cases just slightly smaller. These are hand dies and I use an arbor press to size and remove the cases.

The modern carbide dies truly suck as they over size the cases making for a sloppy fit in the cylinder charge holes.

[Char-Gar]

Expanding dies are a kettle of fish and they too vary quite a bit. The older RCBS expanders measured .357. The current ones are smaller for jacketed bullets.

I mostly use Lyman 310 expanders which comes in .357 or .358. I have modified an older RCBS or a deeper reach for seating solid base wadcutters. I also have a special, but no longer available special expander that measures .3585 for the hollow base wadcutter which is longer, but if you use this expander in anything but wadcutter brass it will expand the case so it won't chamber.

Here is a two pics that shows the different.

Pic 1 is RCBS expanders and left to right they are;

Old .357
New .355
Old .357 modified for deep reach for solid base wadcutters.
Special .3585 long for hollow base wadcutters.

Pic 2 is Lyman expanders and left to right they are;

310 expander .357
310 expander .358
M expander .356

[Char-Gar]

There are two other ways around the issue you describe.

1. The lyman 310 MR (Muzzle resizer) die just sizes the case neck and then you can expand it to any size you wish.

2. The Wilson push in/push out shell holder for their trimmer reduces the neck and gives an ID of .357 for most cases. The cases can then be belled and reloaded with .358 to .359 bullets.

Of course with the two above, the body of the cases won't be sized and their use will be confined to the cylinder in which they were fired the first time.

I have some 38 S&W sizing dies but have not wanted to use them for 38 Special, feeling the sloppy fit of the die to the case body, might induce misalignment. It may or may not do that, but there are so many other ways to get around the issue, I have not felt it necessary to try it.

When it comes to seating dies, I have lyman 310, Lyman All American and RCBS dies. I have no particular preference, although the bullet seating chamber in the RCBS is a little smaller, which in theory makes for better alignment in bullet seating.

I do most of my 38 Special loading on a Lyman Tru-Line Jr set up for 38 Special. I love it. I keep a Redding turret set up just for 7/8 X 14 38 Special dies and I also have a variety of Ideal, Lyman and Belding an Mull hand tools that I use for loading 38 Special. You might say I am something of a 38 Special nut.

I shoot nothing but cast bullets in the 38 Special round.

[lightload]

Thank you everyone for the informative replies. Char, I never thought that there would be so much variation among the same type dies. I do appreciate your time and effort in preparing the charts. It sounds as if RCBS Cowboy dies may be worth the extra money. I now see the value in buying used, older die sets to take advantage of variation that exists.

[Char-Gar]

Thank you everyone for the informative replies. Char, I never thought that there would be so much variation among the same type dies. I do appreciate your time and effort in preparing the charts. It sounds as if RCBS Cowboy dies may be worth the extra money. I now see the value in buying used, older die sets to take advantage of variation that exists.

RCBS older steel dies are common on Ebay and usually bring about $20 to $25 a set. RCBS Cowboys dies will cost double or more. 40 years ago, everybody used cast bullets in revolver cartridges and all dies were made to reload for them. The Cowboy dies are just a throw back to an earlier time.

I use these old RCBS steel dies to reload all revolver rounds, 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt. With the short 9mm and 45 ACP auto pistol rounds the steel and carbide produce the same sized dimensions.

[Char-Gar]

Each RCBS die is marked on the top with the year of manufacture. RCBS used a letter code starting with A in 1949 though L in 1960. From 1961 onward, RCBS used two digit numbers, 61 for 1961 and so on.

[JWFilips]

JW, what seater die do you use for .38 spl?

I use the 38 Spec seater Also I use custom made expanders which fit my Lee expander die bodies
I do it because I feel it works the cases less then dies that are set up for jacketed bullets