Savage Mark II accuracy

[molar]

I picked up a used Savage Mark II 22 lr with Leupold M8 4x scope recently. I took it out yesterday for the first time. The only ammo I had was CCI standard velocity.

At 25 yards, you could cover 5 shots with a dime. At 50 yards, I was getting 3/4" groups and 1.5" groups at 100. Is that about average for a mark II? I know the 4x scope is not ideal for work at 100 yards, but I thought it would shoot a little better than it did?

I'm going to try to find some Eley or Wolf ammo and take it back out for further testing.

[Doc Highwall]

Try a better scope first that has parallax correction and can focus down to at least 25 yards, then do a torque test using a inch pound torque wrench. Start the torque at 10 inch lbs and work in 5 inch lb increments up to about 30-35 inch lbs and see what the gun will do using the CCI standard velocity ammo.

[curator]

I have a couple of MkII Savage rifles that were fitted with laminated stocks and glass bedded. The best they will do with CCI standard velocity ammo is about 3/4 inch 10 shot groups. Aguila subsonic 40 grain loads with Eley priming will do 3/8 inch 10 shot groups. My rifles are used by a JrNRA rifle team for 3-position small bore competition so we save the CCI for practice.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Good grief! You're unhappy with 3/4 inch at 100 yds. from a .22 rifle? Your standards must be much higher than mine. I've got a like new Mk II and in no way would I consider it to be a target rifle--just a sporter for hunting small game. 3/4 inches at 100 yds. will nail a ground squirrel just about every time. I'd be doing a :happy dance:.

[tja6435]

My Savage MKII bull barrel will shoot Federal American Eagle .22lr 40gr solid nose ammo into 1 hole at 25y. Easily. My rig will shoot CCI about what you are getting. I went through probably 15 types of .22lr until I found what my rifle wants. The cheap, red box American Eagle---if you can find it. I have maybe 6 bricks that my boys will use once they're old enough to appreciate how laser beam that ammo runs trough that rifle.

[shredder]

Good grief! You're unhappy with 3/4 inch at 100 yds. from a .22 rifle? Your standards must be much higher than mine. I've got a like new Mk II and in no way would I consider it to be a target rifle--just a sporter for hunting small game. 3/4 inches at 100 yds. will nail a ground squirrel just about every time. I'd be doing a :happy dance:.

Yup you are right on there. I have shot a truckolad of .22s that will not do that.

[molar]

Good grief! You're unhappy with 3/4 inch at 100 yds. from a .22 rifle? Your standards must be much higher than mine. I've got a like new Mk II and in no way would I consider it to be a target rifle--just a sporter for hunting small game. 3/4 inches at 100 yds. will nail a ground squirrel just about every time. I'd be doing a :happy dance:.

3/4" at 50 yards
1.5" at 100 yards

[molar]

My Savage MKII bull barrel will shoot Federal American Eagle .22lr 40gr solid nose ammo into 1 hole at 25y. Easily. My rig will shoot CCI about what you are getting. I went through probably 15 types of .22lr until I found what my rifle wants. The cheap, red box American Eagle---if you can find it. I have maybe 6 bricks that my boys will use once they're old enough to appreciate how laser beam that ammo runs trough that rifle.


Cabela's had some Federal Gold Match 40gr target loads for $5 a box, so I picked up a box just to see what they would do.

I'm looking for Wolf 22 made by Lapua, but can't seem to find it anywhere.

[blixen]

Those are darn good groups! that's as good as I get with my CZ and good standard velocity ammo. my CZ will do about 1/2" at 50 with target ammo.

Switch to standard velocity and/or target ammo and see what you get. Also, shoot 10-shoot groups at 50 yards and post the pictures.

At a hundred yards, the wind begins to call the dance.

[molar]

Try a better scope first that has parallax correction and can focus down to at least 25 yards, then do a torque test using a inch pound torque wrench. Start the torque at 10 inch lbs and work in 5 inch lb increments up to about 30-35 inch lbs and see what the gun will do using the CCI standard velocity ammo.

I assume you are talking about trying different torque levels on the action screws?

I was under the impression that parralax was not an issue on scopes below 10x.

[molar]

I have a couple of MkII Savage rifles that were fitted with laminated stocks and glass bedded. The best they will do with CCI standard velocity ammo is about 3/4 inch 10 shot groups. Aguila subsonic 40 grain loads with Eley priming will do 3/8 inch 10 shot groups. My rifles are used by a JrNRA rifle team for 3-position small bore competition so we save the CCI for practice.

Where did you get the stocks?

[molar]

Those are darn good groups! that's as good as I get with my CZ and good standard velocity ammo. my CZ will do about 1/2" at 50 with target ammo.

Switch to standard velocity and/or target ammo and see what you get. Also, shoot 10-shoot groups at 50 yards and post the pictures.

At a hundred yards, the wind begins to call the dance.

This was actually the first time shooting 22lr for accuracy at 50 and 100 yards, so I'm not sure what is standard accuracy.

I guess I'm spoiled by my 223's, 6.5 grendel's, and 6.5 creedmoor, all of which are 1/2 MOA guns

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sorry--my misread. Still, 1 1/2 inches just ain't bad! And Grendels and Creedmoors aren't .22 L.R.s. But the suggestion that you try different brands of ammo is a good one. Don't forget Eley--the expensive one!

[molar]

Sorry--my misread. Still, 1 1/2 inches just ain't bad! And Grendels and Creedmoors aren't .22 L.R.s. But the suggestion that you try different brands of ammo is a good one. Don't forget Eley--the expensive one!

Cabela's has some Eley 22 lr ammo today ranging from $8.49-15 per 50 rounds. Is it really that good?

I've heard that Wolf match rounds were the gold standard.

I have some federal gold medal match to try. How are the CCI mini mags as far as accuracy is concerned?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It's always been my understanding that Eley is the best. I do not know about Wolf. Federal is good. I am not a serious .22 rifle target shooter, just a plinker and small game guy. What it comes down to really is what your individual rifle will prefer, which as you are doing, can only be discovered by trying them out. I like the CCI ammo for my activities, but I doubt if they'll prove as accurate for target accuracy as some of the other brands.

[Doc Highwall]

I assume you are talking about trying different torque levels on the action screws?

Yes I mean torquing the action screws.

I was under the impression that parralax was not an issue on scopes below 10x.

Parallax affects scopes as low as 6X, if you look it up you will find that the scopes for hunter bench rest shooting are limited to 6X, and the scopes like the old Weaver T6 have parallax adjustment.

[Doc Highwall]

I shoot a lot of small-bore prone matches and one of the cheap 22 Lr ammo that really preforms for cheaper money is the Norma TAC-22 that you can buy for about $495 a case of 5000 and with shipping was $532, that works out to .1064 cents a shot for match ammo that will hold better then the 1" X-ring at 100 yards for 10 shots.

[curator]

Molar:
Midway sells laminated stocks to fit the Savage Mk1 & Mk2 rifle. I suspect they come from Boyds but not certain. Midway also sells the metal trigger guard, and longer action screws needed. Total cost: around $100. Stock comes with sling swivel studs and is about 13.5" length of pull. It also makes the gun a bit heavier but also much easier to shoot in small bore competition. These are very accurate rifles fed the right ammo, but the factory stock leaves a lot to be desired.

[molar]

10 rounds @50 yards Federal gold medal HV match

https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7475/27883556815_0e3ebc3846.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JtYvZz)CAM00655 (https://flic.kr/p/JtYvZz) by Adam C (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101576345@N07/), on Flickr

10 rounds @ 50 yards Aguila standard velocity

https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7550/27807227151_2cee071e95.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JneiQT)CAM00656 (https://flic.kr/p/JneiQT) by Adam C (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101576345@N07/), on Flickr

Not great, but not bad. The search continues. Will probably try SK match and Wolf next

[Doc Highwall]

Try some Norma TAC-22 ammo, it shoots real well for the price. Here is a link to a post I made with about shooting TAC-22 at 100 yards.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?309206-New-Shooter

[molar]

Try some Norma TAC-22 ammo, it shoots real well for the price. Here is a link to a post I made with about shooting TAC-22 at 100 yards.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?309206-New-Shooter

Does the Norma match shoot better than the tac-22? I can get Wolf for $62 per 500 shipped. Doesn't seem bad.

[Hooker53]

I have one with Bull Barrel and Lam stock. As far as a off the shelf stock rifle in its price range, I'm very happy with it if not surprised. The trigger on mine is premo. Very lite. I have a Bushnell Sport View on it and it's one of those guns that I'd be hard pressed to sell. I know I could go with a better scope but for what I picked it up for, not gonna do a thing to it but shoot it. I'm running Fed Prem through it and it seems to like those.

[Doc Highwall]

I have seen excellent groups with both TAC-22 and Match, and I mean hold the X ring shooting prone.

Here is a post I did taking a friend of mine shooting his first match using my Remington 40X chambered in 22Lr. shooting Norma TAC-22 and shooting a 399-30X.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?309206-New-Shooter

This last Tuesday Steve shot a 400-30X for his 2nd match, and Gary shooting my gun also off the bench shot a 398-27X out of a possible 400.

[Lloyd Smale]

I just picked up one with the threaded heavy 16 short barrel and it shoots similar to yours.

[Forrest r]

10 rounds @50 yards Federal gold medal HV match

https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7475/27883556815_0e3ebc3846.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JtYvZz)CAM00655 (https://flic.kr/p/JtYvZz) by Adam C (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101576345@N07/), on Flickr

10 rounds @ 50 yards Aguila standard velocity

https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7550/27807227151_2cee071e95.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JneiQT)CAM00656 (https://flic.kr/p/JneiQT) by Adam C (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101576345@N07/), on Flickr

Not great, but not bad. The search continues. Will probably try SK match and Wolf next

FWIW:
Any time I get a rimfire I dial it in mechanically 1st. Using a chronograph, a know lot of ammo and a known rifle that has been tuned as a benchmark, Ill start out @ 25yds and tune/test the new firearm.

Chronograph, it will tell me if I'm getting consistent ignition/good fp hits.
Known lot of ammo, I buy test lots of ammo by the case. Accuracy is secondary, it has to have a low sd.
Known rifle, I'll shoot both the new rifle and the known rifle the same day, same testing.

What I'm looking for is consistent ignition. If 8 different rifles have the same (within a couple fps) for a 20 shot string and the new firearm a sd that's higher. I know I'm not getting consistent ignition with leads to fliers.

After I get a consistent ignition with the new firearm I will start testing for accuracy. Normally I'll test @ 25yds, that allows me to use lesser grades of ammo, take some of the operator error out of it and cuts down on the affects of the wind. While clover leafs are ok, you want bugholes.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/123107skplus.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/123107skplus.jpg.html)


Testing a new scope on a kimber.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/13108skplus.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/13108skplus.jpg.html)

When testing for accuracy @25yds it will not only sharpen the shooters skills, it will also allow the shooter to fine tune their rifles. More specifically the torques on the action screws. If the groups are horizontal like the op's the action screws are too loose. If the groups are vertical like the ones in the picture below. The action screws are too tight. Getting my 1959 anschutz full stock ready for late cold weather squirrel season/adjusting the action screws after it sat out in the cold for a couple hours.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/20308skplus.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/20308skplus.jpg.html)

Anyway you might consider testing/tuning your rifle @25yds. When you get to where your shooting bugholes you'll know the you and your rifle are ready to stretch your legs out to longer distances.

A cheap 10-22 that I set the bbl back and re-cut the chamber in a used $20 bbl. Worked on the bolt re-shaping the fp and polished the bolt to get consistent ignition. The end result.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/12808skplus-1.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/12808skplus-1.jpg.html)

Stepped out to 50yds with a little better grade match ammo.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/38102283008_zps22b1e2b8.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/38102283008_zps22b1e2b8.jpg.html)

Same thing with a old (1996) cz lux. Worked on the bolt & reshaped the firing pin, the 25yd groups got cut in 1/2. So I stepped it out to 50yds with a little better ammo.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/czlux13mm.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/czlux13mm.jpg.html)

Another thing to try/test for. If you don't get positive results from loosening/tightening your action screws. Put either a piece of 1/4" wide by 1/8" thick rubber band or cut up pieces of a business card in the tip of the forend of your stock & tighten your action screws. You're trying to put tension/upward pressure on the bbl. Doing this will lock the bbl in place. Try different torques on the action screws until you get the tightest/smallest groups. If your rifles shoots tighter groups with the upward pressure on the bbl that's telling you you need to bed or stiffen the stock.

Just something to think about:
I own 15/16 different rimfire rifles and I've done this to every one of them & they all shoot bugholes. I have not tried to salt the pot with any fancy or high end firearms. My examples were a beater 10-22 that I picked up for $100 (it was beat up bad/ a rescue) and put a used $20 bbl on it that had to have the chamber re-cut. There's nothing special about a cz luz, the cz's and the savages go head to head over on rimfire central all the time. They both give each other all they can handle and the cz lux doesn't have a bull bbl. It has a skinny pencil bbl/ sporter bbl. As far as the anschuz goes, it's nothing more than a hunting rifle from 1959 that I switch between 2 different weaver scopes. A 3x post retiticle in the fall/leaves and a 3x target dot after all the leaves are gone/winter. The anschutz that I adjusted the torques on the action screws to dial it in.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/fsscoped.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/fsscoped.jpg.html)

With a bull bbl and good glass you should be able to walk circles around all of the firearms I used for examples on how to tune/test/dial in a rimfire rifle. I used a rifle with a bull bbl and 1 hold down screw, a pencil bbl'd sporter and a hunting rifle.

The kimber on the other hand is a bull barreled 82g. As you can see extremely consistent, bull bbl's/heavy rifles with wide flat foreended target stocks tend to ride the bags better. Not bad for 21* out and 10+mph cold winter winds.

The 10-22 wears a boyd's thumbhole silhouette stock
The cz lux has a hogs back butt with a thin schnabel forend.
The anschutz as you can see is a thin full stock, the bbl isn't free floating (hint: that upward pressure thing).

Good luck

[Lloyd Smale]

my savage like the standard velocity sk stuff and its just slow enough to keep in subsonic so its quiet with a suppressor. It likes blazers too but there a bit to fast.