What velocity needed to get a 125 grain rnfp to 100 yards?

[mcav8tr]

Hi! New member here. Just bought a Rossi 92 in .357 and am looking into the hobby of reloading. In my research so far, it seems like the 125 grain bullet is a good pair with the Rossi's 1-30 twist 20" barrel. Not knowing much about reloading, I was wondering how much velocity you need to shoot accurately (reasonably) out to 100 yards? The Lyman reloading manual says that "best accuracy" for a 125 gr JHP is up around 2200 fps. But do I really need that much velocity to get to 100 yards? Seems like a lot to me. Oh, and I am target shooting only - paper targets, clay pigeons, gongs, etc. A second question I have is about gas checks and plated bullets. Do you need them? For example, Berry's Bullets lists a 125 grain, plated flat nose that can withstand up to 1250 fps velocity. Can I get to 100 yards reasonably with a 1000 - 1200 velocity load? I'm sure some of you guys will be cracking up at these questions but I'm completely new to this. I purchased a Lee Challenger press kit and some RCBS .357 dies and can't wait to start into the hobby of making my own rounds. Thanks!

[dtknowles]

For target shooting at known distances velocity will not be really important since you can adjust your sights to accommodate the drop.

At 1000 to 1200 fps, if the bullets are the proper size for you chamber and bore you will not need plating or gas checks.

Tim

[OS OK]

The best thing you can do is find a seasoned loader/caster in the vicinity of where you live and get some hands on first…a thousand of your questions will be answered in that manner.
It's hard to help you fellas who sign up and don't show all the info about yourself and are so vague in that respect…someone from your area might be inclined to chime in and guide you.
Get some .38 special cartridges and shoot them at 100 yards, that will tell you all about lower velocities right off the start.

[fecmech]

The Lee 125 RNFP bullet is an excellent one for the Rossi. I use 4.5 Bullseye or 5.3/231 for 1220fps and 3 moa accuracy@100yds. It works in both my Rossi's and also a friends gun. If you want a little more speed 6-6.5 Power Pistol will get you into the 1350-1400 fps range, beyond that accuracy starts going south for me. These are loaded in mag cases but .38 spl cases will work ok at a slightly lower accuracy level. I'm sure other powders can give similar results but I buy Bullseye by the keg so it's my goto powder. I think if you stay in the 1200-1400 fps range you will do just fine.

[williamwaco]

Oh my!

You are SERIOUSLY over thinking this thing.

Load up some ammo with a recommended starting load and have some Fun!

[mcav8tr]

Oh my!

You are SERIOUSLY over thinking this thing.

Load up some ammo with a recommended starting load and have some Fun!


I happen to enjoy thinking! And am having a great time lerning about reloading. Why would you think that I'm not having fun?

[Scharfschuetze]

I shoot a lot of 357 rounds in a Marlin 1894 rifle. I've always found the 180 grain cast boolits (no gas check) to be the best for long range shooting from 100 to past 200 yards when propelled to about 1,700 out of the muzzle. The trajectory is flatter after 100 yards and they are less wind sensitive.

I note that your rifle has a 1 in 30" twist, so 180s may not stabilize in your rifle. Given that, if you don't want to cast 'em right off, there are commercial versions of the 180 gainers at vendors such as Oregon Trail.

[shoot-n-lead]

I load them in .357 brass...6.5grs of Bullseye...they shoot like a dream...my 92 will drill them. I shoot more of these in the Rossi, than any load. Although, I shoot a lot of the Lee 158gr RF, too.

[Hick]

I don't have a .357-- but I do have experience with Berry's plated bullets. I use the 110 grain Berry plated in my 30-30 for 100 yard target shooting and find it to be very accurate at velocities below their limit. I also shoot cast with plain base at those lower velocities with plenty of success. Go play with it and have some fun, and somewhere in there you will discover what load your .357 likes the most.

[mcav8tr]

Thanks for all the good info! Sounds like I don't need to shoot at 2200 fps in order to accurately hit targets out to 100 yards. Also, don't need to worry about gas checks if I keep things in the sub 1200 fps range. Now I can look up appropriate load data to stay within those parameters and/or use some of the suggested Bullseye recipes.

[Mk42gunner]

My first recommendation is for you to buy a loading manual.

Before I started casting, I ran a lot of commercial cast 158 RNFP through a 16" Winchester 1894AE in .357 Mag. I used .38 Special brass and W231 powder. My only problems where occasionally the shorter rounds would pop out the top while loading. It was plenty accurate for plinking in the desert. No idea of group size on paper or actual velocity (other than it wasn't a hot load).

Robert

[mcav8tr]

There were several recommendations to use 5 - 6.5 grains of Bullseye behind a 125 grain rnfp lead bullet in a .357 case. I went to Sportsman's Warehouse after work today only to find they don't have any Bullseye in stock. They have IMR 700X which is pretty close on the burn rate comparison charts to Bullseye - slightly slower burning than Bullseye. Anyone have any experience with 700X?

[M-Tecs]

The Lyman reloading manual says that "best accuracy" for a 125 gr JHP is up around 2200 fps.

I really wish the manuals would leave out the accuracy load. It is virtually meaningless. The only thing that is tells you is what worked best in their test setup. Do the development with three different rifles chances are you will have three different accuracy loads.


The 2200 fps is the high end for pressure and velocity. For your listed usage 1,000 to 1,200 will work fine.

[shoot-n-lead]

I really wish the manuals would leave out the accuracy load. It is virtually meaningless.


Also, the Rossi 92 is not a bench rifle...while it will shoot very well, it will never be one-hole accurate...especially given the dismal sights that it comes equipped with.

[shoot-n-lead]

There were several recommendations to use 5 - 6.5 grains of Bullseye behind a 125 grain rnfp lead bullet in a .357 case. I went to Sportsman's Warehouse after work today only to find they don't have any Bullseye in stock. They have IMR 700X which is pretty close on the burn rate comparison charts to Bullseye - slightly slower burning than Bullseye. Anyone have any experience with 700X?

My Lee manual has a starting load of 700X at 4.0grs at 1059fps and a max of 5.5grs at 1299.

[TXGunNut]

There were several recommendations to use 5 - 6.5 grains of Bullseye behind a 125 grain rnfp lead bullet in a .357 case. I went to Sportsman's Warehouse after work today only to find they don't have any Bullseye in stock. They have IMR 700X which is pretty close on the burn rate comparison charts to Bullseye - slightly slower burning than Bullseye. Anyone have any experience with 700X?

Welcome to the forum!
Did they have any WW231? 3.5grs of that is an awesome target load under a 158gr swc in a revolver and seems to be a nice enough plinker load in a rifle.
And again, buy a manual or two. You'll learn more with one manual than you could seating three or four of us around a loading bench for a day.
Be smart, be safe, have fun!

[mcav8tr]

Yes, I have two manuals - Lyman's and Lee. There is a huge void in all the manuals for loading .357 magnum cases with lightweight, lead bullets. In rifle you find lots of 1500+ velocity and in handgun you find 1000+ velocities which will result in much higher values when shot through the 20" barrel of the rifle. TXGunNut, yes, I think I saw a 1lb container of Winchester 231. Might go pick it up tomorrow.

[shoot-n-lead]

Yes, I have two manuals - Lyman's and Lee. There is a huge void in all the manuals for loading .357 magnum cases with lightweight, lead bullets. In rifle you find lots of 1500+ velocity and in handgun you find 1000+ velocities which will result in much higher values when shot through the 20" barrel of the rifle. TXGunNut, yes, I think I saw a 1lb container of Winchester 231. Might go pick it up tomorrow.

Go get that 231...it is close to the burn rate of Bullseye and will serve you well in these rounds for the Rossi. Can't remember the last time that I saw 231 on a shelf.

I would not worry too much about the fps...find the load that shoots the best and the fps will take care of itself.

[fecmech]

My experience with rifle vs pistol velocities is as follows. The faster powders such as Bullseye,231 and Unique gain 200-250 fps in the rifle. The slower powders like 2400, 296,AA9 are more like 350-450 fps over pistol velocities in max loads. I would also second 231 if you can get it.

[LeadPoisonTX]

I can completely understand (and relate to) your type of questions, since I also asked similar ones when I started reloading. I can tell you that in addition to a couple of manuals (I have 20+ now), I learned a ton from Handloader Magazine from Wolf Publishing, as well as from the good folks here. I now can proudly admit to being a Loader/Caster junkie for life :smile:. If you are not casting your own boolits (since you mentioned Berry's), you have many sources/choices for getting these. If you happen to see HP-38, get it since it is the same as W231. Welcome to the forum.

[mcav8tr]

My experience with rifle vs pistol velocities is as follows. The faster powders such as Bullseye,231 and Unique gain 200-250 fps in the rifle. The slower powders like 2400, 296,AA9 are more like 350-450 fps over pistol velocities in max loads. I would also second 231 if you can get it.

This is really valuable! Thanks.

[mcav8tr]

I talked to a knowledgeable reloader at Sportsman's Warehouse and of course the WW231 that I had seen was now gone. However, he highly recommended Allient's new BE-86. Said it was very similar to Unique but a bit slower - falls between Unique and Power Pistol. He said he's been having great success with it.

Here's some info I found on it:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/performance-of-alliants-new-be-86-pistol-powder/

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=125&shellid=26&bulletid=319

[clum553946]

Powder Valley has 231, for 100 yard shots, 1100fps is a good starting point imo.

[fecmech]

Since you have BE86 here is some of my data for it.
1. 5.4/BE86/Lee 125 rnfp/6" S&W K38=935 FPS(.38 spl case for all)
2. Same load 20" Rossi Carbine=1240 fps
3. Same load Lee 158 TLSWC/6"=935 fps
4. 158 in 20" carbine=1153 fps
5. Accurate 165E (5.4/BE86)6"=965 fps
6. Same in 20" carbine=1164fps

Accuracy with 125 and 158 equal to BE and 231 in my Rossi's.

[mcav8tr]

Since you have BE86 here is some of my data for it.
1. 5.4/BE86/Lee 125 rnfp/6" S&W K38=935 FPS(.38 spl case for all)
2. Same load 20" Rossi Carbine=1240 fps
3. Same load Lee 158 TLSWC/6"=935 fps
4. 158 in 20" carbine=1153 fps
5. Accurate 165E (5.4/BE86)6"=965 fps
6. Same in 20" carbine=1164fps

Accuracy with 125 and 158 equal to BE and 231 in my Rossi's.

Thanks, fecmech. Do you ever load into .357 cases? The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of it. Walmart has been selling Perfecta .357 158 grain FP for $16.99/50. It's a good price for factory ammo - even less than what I can buy 38 Special for. The Perfecta is made by Fiocci and the brass is nice. Gonna go pick up a pound of the BE-86.

[fecmech]

Do you ever load into .357 cases?
All the time and particularly when I want max accuracy in my rifles and .357 mag pistol. When I chrono'd those loads they just happened to be in .38 cases. Velocities in mag cases will be very very close.

[John Boy]

Here's some loading data to consider ...
125 grain Lead RNFP (.358")
Unique 6.9 gr. ~ ~ light load
Universal 4.8 gr. 1,046 Hodgdon start
Universal 6.8 gr. 1,401 Hodgdon max
HP-38 & W231 4.6 gr. 1,052 start
HP-38 & W231 5.5 gr. 1,185 max
Trail Boss 3.5 gr. 874 start
Trail Boss 5.3 gr. 1,035 max
Titegroup 4.0 gr. 1,055 start
Titegroup 5.4 gr. 1,274 max
Clays 3.5 gr. 984 start
Clays 5.3 gr. 1,260 max
Autocomp 6.5 gr. 1,311 start
Autocomp 7.5 gr. 1,456 max

[Geezer in NH]

I happen to enjoy thinking! And am having a great time lerning about reloading. Why would you think that I'm not having fun?Buy a few loading manuals, Lyman's both regular and cast bullet ones read them you will be entertained and educated.

Welcome to reloading and Cast Boolits.

[FergusonTO35]

My 1894C really likes the Lee 125 at .360 with Tac-X in both grooves over 6 grains SR-4756. Sad that they discontinued that powder.

[quilbilly]

I have a Contender carbine and use that boolit exclusively in one of my barrels. At an MV of 1200 fps, it is easily minute of cottontail rabbit out to 125 yards and has plenty of power to level a coyote (it does make a satisfying "thwack" at that range where the velocity is still about 900 fps). My powder is Unique.

[quilbilly]

My T/C carbine in 9mm has a 358 bore and I use that 125 gr. RNFP exclusively in it. At an MV of 1200 it gets better than adequate accuracy (minute of cottontail or pop can) out at 125 yards. It is my favorite "walking around rifle" and it does make a satisfying whack when hitting a coyote at 100+ yards. I have never asked pinpoint accuracy of it, however. The powder is 4.6 gr of Unique which makes it even more economical and the boolits that drop from my mold average about 134 gr. which I consider just fine.

[Griff]

IMHO, get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Ed. Lots more cast bullet specific info in there. And if they don't have W231, look around for HP-38, (shhh... same stuff... big secret, don't tell anyone)!

There are two types of reloaders; those that reload to shoot, and those that shoot to reload!

[Wayne Smith]

Welcome to Cast Boolits - and to literally answer your labled question somewhat irreverently -
I load 32 S&W with 1gr Bullseye and a roundball (buckshot). I'm pretty sure, if I held the revolver at the right angle, the ball would make it to 100 yds! You really don't need much to accomplish that. Accuracy, now that's another ball game!

[dogmower]

my pet load for my rossi 92 carbine is the lee 125 grainer, sized .358, either tumble lube design or regular grease groove (forget the mold numbers), both powder coated over unique or accurate no 7.
middling loads (will be plenty fast out of the rifle), just consult any reloading manual. I've had problems getting the heavier 158 grain (keith) style boolit to feed - the large meplat (the nose of the bullet) hangs up in feeding, but they shoot well if fed one at a time.
here in Tucson, my range's closest steel gongs are at 50 yds, and they are easy to hit with the rifle. I shoot this same load out to 200 meters on a regulation ram, and it will hit every time if I do my part.
Enjoy!

[dh2]

Yes you are over thinking this I would just find a powder giving one of the fastest bullet speed and load it

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[flint45]

You wont have any problem at all hitting at100 I do it all the time with a four inch Smith&Wesson m-28 with a 4 inch barrel. load 3.5 gr. bullseye and a 130 gr. kramer swc. tried it the other day I thougt I was just goin to waste ammo but to my surprise Ihit it pretty good metal gong 110 yards targeget size 10x18inch.

[John Boy]

Here's some loading data for you ... http://reloadammo.com/357loads.htm

[ironhead7544]

No telling how a particular load will shoot in any rifle. You will have to test and your rifle will tell you what it likes.

I would try Trail Boss. With a lead bullet, my 44 Magnum rifle and revolver are very accurate with cast bullets. Modest velocity and no leading.

Unique is also good. Use the start load and work up. I have found Unique will have a "Sweet" spot.

I would also slug the barrel to see what diameter you need. Lots of good info here on getting good accuracy with cast boolits.

[charlie b]

I have not purchased a loading manual in many years. Why? Cause the powder mfgs post loading data for free. Also, if you buy a set of Lee dies they have loading data for your cartridge. You can use the same loads that pistols use to start. Then tweak it to see what works best for your rifle. You may need to use a bit slower powder in the longer barrel. Just remember that every gun has a load/velocity that they like the best, and it will probably not be the max load from the manual. It will take a while to find that sweet spot.

But, I would go get a Lyman manual, especially the cast bullet manual. I got mine at a used bookstore.

More recent manuals also reflect better pressure data as mfgs started using better methods of measuring pressure data in testing.

Last, start low. As others stated, your bullet will reach 100yd with the lightest load listed. I will usually buy the types of bullets I will want to use and fire them. That will give you an idea if it is a combination that is worth tweaking.

For casting I'd just start out with wheel weights. They are good enough for a start.