Forming 8x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer

[Cheshire Dave]

Picking up a Mannlicher Schoenaur model 1950 in 8x56 MS caliber tomorrow and it comes with dies but no brass. What case is best to start with and what have you had the best success with as far as method. Some info on web has mentioned the dimension just in front of rim is smaller at .465 then 06 based brass. Have 30-06 brass but could get 8mm and expand to 35 cal. then back to 8mm to get shoulder location correct. Thanks for your help.
Really want to shoot this classic old gun. Comes with German 4x in claw scope mounts.

[paul edward]

Try making a couple of cases from 30/06 brass to see if they will chamber. Resize, trim and anneal. Use a good case lube as the shoulder needs to be moved back quite a bit and the 8x56 has more taper than the 30/06. Omit the expander for the first pass through the resizing die. You will not need to expand to 35. Rough trim with a tubing cutter. After trimming, reinstall the expander and make a final pass through the resizer die.

The info on the web about a .465 base is not nearly as important as the chamber dimensions of your rifle.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, it comes down to the chamber size. The MS case may be a little smaller in head diameter than either the .30-06 o the 8x57, but you may find them fitting the chamber. A friend was able to load for his 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer with dies alone. If not, just size until the solid web prevents further sizing, even when considerable force is applied on a powerful press. Then it is within safe limits to reduce the remaining 3/16in. or so of case body. All sorts of methods up to engineer's lathe are available, but you could do it by hand with fine files or abrasive paper glued to wood. or you could make a mandrel to turn them in an electric screwdriver. (Drills, which are never perfectly balanced, vibrate and bounce, and are liable to turn it oval.)

The necks may have to be reamed or turned, but that is hard to predict. It may depend on how much of the thickening due to reducing the diameter is turned into lengthening instead. The measurements in my Load from a Disk computer programme, which may or may not be typical, are:

8x56 MS
Head .463in.
Neck thickness 0.0125in.
Thickness at a datum just behind the 1.811in. beginning of the shoulder 0.014in.
Thickness at a datum just in front of the solid web 0.028in.

8x57 Mauser
Head .472in.
Neck thickness 0.013in.
Thickness at a datum just behind the 1.827in. beginning of the shoulder 0.014in.
Thickness at a datum just in front of the solid web 0.029in.

.30-06
Head .470in.
Neck thickness 0.01505in.
Thickness at a datum just behind the 1.948in. beginning of the shoulder 0.017in.
Thickness at a datum just in front of the solid web 0.035in.

It looks as if both would be possible, but the 857 would be easier and less likely to require load adjustment for reduced capacity.

[Cheshire Dave]

Thanks for the info. I've had to chuck some 5.6x52's formed from 30-30 in drill press and take a few thou off before. Hopefully the gun has a generous chamber.

[bullet maker 57]

You could try Aim Surplus and see if they have any Privi Pratzin ammo. If they do, it is reloadable.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Powder Valley has Prvi 8x56 in stock

[Cheshire Dave]

I believe that is the rimmed 8x56r Mannlicher and not the same cartridge.

[PB234]

I have looked for brass now and then. If you watch GunBroker ammo sometimes turns up. Might be able to pull the bullet, inspect brass and be good to go. Years ago someone who sold their 1908 sold me some brass, converted brass and the making of converted brass along with dies ad some commercial cast bullets for it. If you want PM me and I'll be able to tell you where he commerial cast came from. I think it was Hawk bullets. Or get on this waiting list: http://www.buffaloarms.com/8X56_Mannlicher_Schoenauer_Ammunition_it-158136.aspx?CAT=4452

Mannlichers, a thing of romance and beauty. Wait till you see a 1903 and fall in love.

Maybe just get in line for this: http://www.buffaloarms.com/8X56_Mannlicher_Schoenauer_Ammunition_it-158136.aspx?CAT=4452

There was an article in Rifle about this round/rifle years ago and I recall finding it on the web. Try to get to handle a Mannlicher 1903. Probably going to be love at first sight.

[Vopie]

I have formed and loaded for two 1908 M.S.'s, neither gave any problems chambering brass formed from 8x57 brass. Trim, size in 8x56M.S. f.l. die and load. Had no issues with head, or extractor grove dia. maybe I was lucky, but forming, loading was straight forward.

[EDG]

Try a new or FL sized 8X57 in your chamber.
There is some chance it will fit.

I have formed hundreds of 8X57 from 30-06 brass. Since the 30-06 shoulder to head length is longer than the 8X56 there is no reason to expand it over 8mm.

For what it is worth I have a RCBS 9X56 MS trim die and it is .005 smaller at the base than the RCBS 8X57 trim die.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez (in case you haven't already) be SURE to get some authentic
(not some guys reloads) 8x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer ammo for reference.

Remember, micrometer for diameters, caliper OK for lengths.

[EDG]

VeEry few of us resort to factory loaded "reference" ammo. First if you have no pressure measuring equipment all you can do is look at primers or measure case heads. If you reload with a different brand of brass, primer, powder and bullet you have little in common with the factory load except the possibility of measuring case head expansion.
And if I decide to use reference ammo that has not been manufactured in 70 years is it still reference ammo or just some old junk that may or may not go off?



GONRA sez (in case you haven't already) be SURE to get some authentic
(not some guys reloads) 8x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer ammo for reference.

Remember, micrometer for diameters, caliper OK for lengths.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez its reference ammo for MEASUREMENTS , not SHOOTIN'.

[EDG]

The functional dimensions are the rifle chamber.
Check CIP for the delta L problem. Some ammo can match the drawings yet not fit the rifle chamber that matches the chamber drawing.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_L_problem


Quote.
Firearms users that have to rely on their weapon under adverse conditions, such as big five and other dangerous game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_game) hunters, obviously have to check the correct functioning of the firearm and ammunition they intend to use before exposing themselves to potentially dangerous situations.

Unless you are able to modify or manufacture your own dies you will usually be limited by the quality of the reloading dies and the dimensions of the rifle chamber.
It is easy enough to check a chamber cast against the dimensions of a handload.



GONRA sez its reference ammo for MEASUREMENTS , not SHOOTN'.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Steyr held pretty closely to their standard dimensions in chambering rifles, and so do reputable die manufacturers. An advantage of the 8x56MS that it was scarcely ever chambered by anyone else. The real issue here is how much trouble head diameter and neck thickness present, and I think it won't be much.

Load with the dies, compare it with a fired case, and I think you will find you have a reference cartridge as to dimensions.

[EDG]

RCBS dies are held to closer tolerances than production rifle chambers and rifle head space. I have measured about 100 FL dies of all brands.
The Steyrs that I own have head space variations so I load each rifle as an individual even though they are all chambered for the 6.5X53R Mannlicher.
Total variation in head space is .012 for 4 rifles that have all matching parts.
I don't have any 8X56 dies but the 9X56 MS die that I have is .005 smaller at the base than 8X57 or 9X57 FL dies.

One reason for better precision in your dies is the ease of discarding scrap. Screw up a die body and it is maybe a $1 into the trash can or maybe it is just set aside and re-reamed to another caliber with basically no loss except a little machine time.
When you screw up a rifle chamber in a high production line the entire rifled blank is a loss.


Steyr held pretty closely to their standard dimensions in chambering rifles, and so do reputable die manufacturers. An advantage of the 8x56MS that it was scarcely ever chambered by anyone else. The real issue here is how much trouble head diameter and neck thickness present, and I think it won't be much.

Load with the dies, compare it with a fired case, and I think you will find you have a reference cartridge as to dimensions.