My Ruger "Single Eight" in ".25ACP+" vs "Handloader" .250 Magnum Auto.

[Chev. William]

Back in November 2015 I had some "disposable funds" so I Started a Ruger "Single six" custom conversion from .22CAL to CF, 8 shot, 10-5/8" long barreled Revolver chambered for ".25ACP/6.35 Browning" and longer wildcats of the Same diameters.

I now have the revolver and the Second outing went Very Well.

The first Cylinder started out as a replacement .22WMR 8 shot cylinder that was reamed and chambered for .25ACP cartridges.

I am still getting used to the revolver and my grip is still 'weak' as it still feels 'muzzle heavy'.

The Following Loads are NOT Recommended for "Blow-Back" type actions but work well in my Ruger Revolver.

- A 63 grain Lead FN "hunters Supply" bullet Tumble Lubed and sized .251" over 3.0 Grains of BE-86 Propellant in PPU .25ACP brass. Muzzle rise is about 1-1/2 target height and muzzle noise is about .22WRF or weak .22WMR. Seems to shoot to same point of aim as Factory .25ACP loads at about 7 yards.

- A 52 grain Lead RFN "Ranch Dog" .25ACP Bullet Tumble Lubed and sized .251" over 3.1 grains of BE-86 Propellant. Muzzle rise about 1 target height and muzzle noise similar to above load. Also seems to shoot to the same point of aim as above.

- Factory Fiocchi "6,35 Browning/25 Auto" 50 grain FMJ loads pattern about 3 to 4 inch circle about half bull to left of point of aim. Sights need further adjustments.

I am sure target performance will improve with Practice, Practice, Practice.

I am Very Pleased with this revolver so far, and my gunsmith is chambering the Second cylinder to ".250ALRM/6.35x32mmSR Stewart".

the third and fourth cylinders are awaiting their reamers (also from PT&G like the other two).

I will Post Photos later.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Tatume]

Hi Chev,

Sounds like a very interesting project. What brand of barrel blank did you use?

Take care, Tom

[nagantguy]

Let's see some pics, this sounds so cool! What a great little working gun.

[FergusonTO35]

A custom single action in .25 Auto. Pure awesomeness, can't wait for pics!!:mrgreen:

[Chev. William]

Hi Chev,

Sounds like a very interesting project. What brand of barrel blank did you use?

Take care, Tom

My Barrel started life as a "Lothar Walther .25ACP/6.35 browning Cr-Mo Alloy Steel Pistol Barrel blank" of about 1:9.4 to 1:9.8 twist, 6 groove, .243" bore/.250"groove diameters and roughly 1.1 inch diameter by 23.4" length.
It was Turned, fitted, and finish set up by Willie Clark of "American Gun Works"(AGW), Glendale California.
The Bluing was done by an outside shop contracted by AGW. they sent my barrel out as part of a Lot of items so the Price for the bluing was very reasonable.
Willie tapered the Blank to take Ruger unloading rod and housing and the Ruger front sight from the Original barrel that came on the Used Ruger New Model Convertible Single Six Revolver I bought as a 'donor' from AGW (a consignment sale from a Glendale LEO I was told).

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/2694e883-5221-43da-b4de-771154be62b8_zpsf2vz59at.jpg
Under Construction At gunsmiths. Left Side.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/1a3435ff-67f6-463f-9765-ae99149c3bd9_zpsgyzaogdy.jpg
Under Construction At Gunsmiths, Right Side.
nagantguy (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?29001-nagantguy) and FergusonTO35 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?23987-FergusonTO35) : Here are Some Photos.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/c10bec5b-4ebc-4fa1-93ea-b198de0e1eb7_zpsh7wguln4.jpg
Left Side finished and Assembled.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/a007a007-e395-4538-b79a-5f6182d57649_zpsgjh4flaf.jpg
Right Side With Cylinder out and showing Cartridges.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/Ruger2025Cal20CF20Conv20Mod20Cyl20Marking_original _zpsg2dggaqx.jpg
Close up of side of cylinder, still marked "22-MAG" but chambered for ".25ACP".

My testing of the Revolver so far is limited to .25ACP cases but NOT .25ACP Traditional Loads!
I started with Factory .25ACP to get a baseline of operation.
Then Started "playing' with Hand loads.
BE-86 Shows promise in this case. I have fired loads up to 3.1 grains (behind 52 grain Lead Bullets) and 3.0 grains (behind 63 grain Lead bullets) to date.
Heavier bullets seem to give useful performance even in this tiny case.
And there is the Future Cylinder, presently at my Gunsmith being chambered for a 1.250" Case length '25ACP' design called both .250ALRM and 6.35x32mmSR, using my PT&G made ".250ALRM Finish Chamber Reamer".

[FergusonTO35]

:guntootsmiley:

You da man!! Now go show that to all the single action snobs on the Ruger Forum.

[Earlwb]

That is looking great. Nice job. I think it is a great idea to make a revolver that can fire .25 ACP rounds too.

[Mk42gunner]

I think this will be a very useful modification and cartridge, especially given how hard it has been to find any of the rimfire cartridges for the past four years. I realize the long barrel will be an advantage for velocity, but I would rather have a shorter one, something about 6½" or so.

I have no experience with it; but Elmer Keith lobbied for the Single Six to be chambered for the .25 Stevens rimfire, stating it would be a better small game cartridge that any .22 LR or WMR from a revolver.

Robert

[Chev. William]

There are Three Listed CF replacements for the .25 Stevens RF cartridge.
the first one I found is the ".25-10 Halsted" which is made from .22 Hornet parent brass and required reboring the rifles to accept .257" diameter bullets. I found it can also be loaded with.251" bullets and so could use the original bore/Groove dimensions ,which it shares with the .25ACP and alternative cartridge that fits the .25 Stevens Chambers but due to the LONG distance from cartridge mouth to rifling seems to be a little poorer in accuracy department.

The third cartridge is "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS" pair of designs. The two share case dimensions in general but differ in the Parent brass from which they are Made.

Case length for the Halsted, the Stewart, and the .250ALS is 1.125" nominal; diameter is .276" for the body; rims vary from .302" to .348" diameter; Rim thickness is limited to about .050 nominal (.043" min to .053" max; overall length varies depending upon bullet and intended use. 1.400" max for my Ruger Revolver due to cylinder length and up to about 2.03" for a Single shot STRONG Action Rifle with a 120 grain Plastic tip Boat tail bullet and loaded to 50,000psi MAP. I just bought two more LW Blanks for Barrels and they currently are just over 1" diameter and about 23.8" long. Mr. Woodward, of LW in America, tells me the current barrel blanks may be made into accurate barrels with only loosing about .050" of each end for a maximum barrel length of 23.7" possible. Twist Rate for the Latest barrel blanks is stated as 1 turn in 9.8" RH.

Willie Clark told me he turned my barrel between centers, and let it cool between cuts to retain its innate accuracy. I have the Cut off section from my LW Blank that he used, it measures 12-3/4" long.

Other Case lengths I will be getting cylinders cut for are:
"6.35x26mmSR Stewart/.25MACP (Magnum Auto Colt Pistol)" at 1.056" maximum and 1.024" nominal Case length (the 1.055" is the Same as .22WMR case length).
"6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS (Auto Long Stevens)" at 1.126" maximum and 1.125" Nominal Trim case length (same as .25 Stevens (Long) RF cases).

In my Ruger all of the Cartridges are limited to a loaded length of less than 1.405"; hence the practical limit of 1.400" and less.

Now If I can find some Manufacturer to make double ended wadcutters of about 60 to 70 grains that size to .251"-.252" or Hollow ones in the same weight range (hollow on one end so they could be loaded either Hollow Point or Hollow Base) . . . . .

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I think this will be a very useful modification and cartridge, especially given how hard it has been to find any of the rimfire cartridges for the past four years. I realize the long barrel will be an advantage for velocity, but I would rather have a shorter one, something about 6½" or so.

I have no experience with it; but Elmer Keith lobbied for the Single Six to be chambered for the .25 Stevens rimfire, stating it would be a better small game cartridge that any .22 LR or WMR from a revolver.

Robert

I have some Experience with .25 Stevens (Long) Rf from my experiments trying ot develop a RF Adapter case for it and a VERY Few original Cartridges I fired (they were purchased at low 'collector prices' of about $1.00 each at the time). Out to 100 yard limit of the range I was using, and given the rifle used was a Stevens 1894 Favorite with a Stevens '.25 Stevens' barrel that was a bit pitted in the bore, they held to about 6" circle 'Standing Off Hand' and about a 4" circle Sitting at a Bench.
Writers of the Era (1890s) said the rifle and cartridge was of Target Accuracy out to 200 yards but had a 'high trajectory', which was understandable from the RFN nose on the 67 grain bullet and 10 to 11 grain BP loading reportedly yielding 1100 fps.

Best Regards,
Chev. Willaim

[Chev. William]

:guntootsmiley:

You da man!! Now go show that to all the single action snobs on the Ruger Forum.

Which Ruger Forum?
:swagemine: Cases, that is!:bigsmyl2: Best Regards,


Chev. William

[Chev. William]

That is looking great. Nice job. I think it is a great idea to make a revolver that can fire .25 ACP rounds too.

Interestingly, the .25ACP is similar in length to the .25 Stevens Short, may be fired in .25 Stevens chambers (if the Firearm is converted to CF). and is within pressure limits of the Cartridge.

As such it makes a Very good 'plinking' and possibly small Varmint/small Predator control round IF fired in a Barrel long enough to get the Velocity up and the Noise down.
In my Opinion the .25ACP was relegated to short Barrels and range by Manufacturers who did not pursue longer barrel uses. Admittedly, the short barrel pistols WERE effective at their Intended Ranges and Targets. Since John Browning Invented it very little development has gone into it as a testament to John's abilities. He wanted a Better feeding round that mimicked the .22LR cartridge in performance out of a Pocket pistol and he got it.

"Ballistics By The Inch" did some testing on factory .25ACP in a TC single shot pistol starting with an 18" barrel and shortening it progressively to 2" while chronographing velocities along the way. they found Velocity increased with Barrel length up to about 16" for Factory Loads developed in 2" Test barrels.
17,400psi CIP rating isn't even the level of .22LR (23,000psi) or .22WMR (24,000psi).
Current SAAMI rating is 25,000psi MAP (Piezo) so there IS room for Improvement.

The typical 'Blow-Back' Action semi-automatic Pocket Pistol are not designed nor tuned to handle higher pressures than the CIP ratings. A better Action is needed for higher pressures and Manufacturers are 'loathe' to chance a "+P" or "++P" loading in the case due to the Large number of weak design Semi-auto pistols in existence.

Hand Loading for a STRONG Action is possible and I am doing it.
I have fired 3.1 grains of BE-86 behind a 52 grain bullet out of my Ruger but would not do that out my 1894 Stevens CF converted Favorite action, which I limit to 'sonic' velocity loads.

Best Regards,
Chev. Willaim

[Chev. William]

Range Time Today. Shot 100 PPU Factory 50 gr .25ACP at 7 yards working on my 'Hold' and tweaking The Rear sight to center the "pattern". At least the "pattern" is basically round now so I may have improved slightly. 7 yard "pattern is about the Diameter of a 25 yard Target Black area. I was using a 6 O'clock Sight Picture and elbows resting on the Bench with two hands on the Grip.

After the Range Session I took my Ruger to my gunsmith so he can complete fitting of the Second Cylinder to the Frame. This cylinder is chambered for my ".250ALRM" and will also take my '6.35x32mmSR" if OAL on both is limited to 1.400 inches. The nominal 1.250" case lengths will limit the Exposed bullet nose of 0.150 inch to stay within limits.
For alternate Cartridges, such as ".250ALS" and "6.35x28.6mmSR" with a nominal 1.125 inch Case the Nose Exposure can be up to 0.275". For further alternates: the .25 Magnum Auto and 6.35x26mmSR at 1.055" case length would allow up to 0.348" nose exposure.

Now That sounds like an interesting thought.

A Spire point bullet of 74 grains or 85 grains with a Charge of suitable propellant, a small bore 'Whisperer' perhaps?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Drm50]

Last fall at a small local show a guy had a neat little German semi-auto carbine in 6.35mm. His
story was a relative brought it home from WW2. Had it been in better condition I might have
bought it. Think maker was Dryse, had lots of parts, that's what put me off. He wanted $500
and didn't know if it was serviceable. That is the only rifle I have ever seen for 25acp.

[Chev. William]

I found a couple of posts that confirm 'Dryse' and 'Tinex(sp?)' about WW1 era made and sold in Europe some Carbines in .25ACP. Very Rare now.
Chev. William.
A CF converted Stevens '.25 Stevens' or '.25 Stevens short' rifle could be made into a .25ACP rifle.
A Marlin Levermatic could be converted to CF and re-barreled to shoot .25ACP. (Marlin Did Make a CF Version of their Levermatic: the Model 62, in .30 Carbine and .256 Magnum.)
.25ACP cartridges currently are loaded to CIP limit of 17,400psi MAP equivalent.
Hand Loading .25ACP to SAAMI MAP of 25,000psi can add some more Interest to such a rifle.
Using a heavier bullet is also a possibility in a Rifle, or a Strong None Blow-Back Action Hand gun.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Lloyd Smale]

I remember years ago bowen did a 4 inch j frame in 25acp with moon clips. I thought that would make a great plinker.

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith finished reaming the other 7 chambers in my Second Eight shot cylinder for my Ruger Single Eight in .25ACP. This cylinder is chambered using my ".250ALRM" finishing reamer (made by PT&G) to accept Cartridges of 1.400" OAL and case lengths up to 1.260".
The ".250ALRM" is similar to "6.35x32mmSR Stewart" but Derived from new .22 Hornet PPU Brass by Swageing it down to .276" body diameter all the way to the top of the Rim, and then machining the rim to thickness (.050") and diameter (.304"-.312").
The "Metric" designation is related to my having based it upon "5.7x28mm" Brass, also Swaged down to .276" body diameter.

Best Regards,
Chev. Willaim

[Jtarm]

Too cool!

When .22 lr ammo got impossible to find, started thinking it was too bad we don't have a rimmed .25 revolver round that could be reloaded with cast boolits for less than .22s.

[Chev. William]

Find a Used Ruger Convertible Single Six and you have The Donor for a .25ACP Revolver that can handle Stronger Hand loads in the .25ACP case.

In the conversion use a Barrel longer than 6 inches to get better propellant efficiency out of your Hand Loads. My 10-5/8 inch long barrel may be a little muzzle heavy for a Hunting Revolver.

A good gunsmith can convert an RF Ruger to CF at reasonable cost.
Converting to Eight Shot is more Time consuming.

Just remember Your custom Ruger will not be Repaired by Ruger in the future without conversion back to original 'as Manufactured' configuration, so keep the Parts you Change out.

Best regards,
Chev. William

[NoZombies]

Could you post your barrel source?

I've got a rook rifle that could use a new barrel, and a .25acp would be about perfect for it.

[Chev. William]

From Post #5 on this thread:
"My Barrel started life as a "Lothar Walther .25ACP/6.35 browning Cr-Mo Alloy Steel Pistol Barrel blank" of about 1:9.4 to 1:9.8 twist, 6 groove, .243" bore/.250"groove diameters and roughly 1.1 inch diameter by 23.4" length.
It was Turned, fitted, and finish set up by Willie Clark of "American Gun Works"(AGW), Glendale California.
The Bluing was done by an outside shop contracted by AGW. they sent my barrel out as part of a Lot of items so the Price for the bluing was very reasonable.
Willie tapered the Blank to take Ruger unloading rod and housing and the Ruger front sight from the Original barrel tha tcame on the Used Ruger New Model Convertible Single Six Revolver I bought as a 'donor' from AGW (a consignment sale from a Glendale LEO I was told)."

Lothar Walther Precision tools, Inc. Web site:
http://www.lothar-walther.com/310.php

Their Address and contact info from the web site:
Lothar Walther Precision Tools, Inc.
3425 Hutchinson Rd. - Cumming, GA 30040 Phone: 770-889-9998
Fax: 770-889-4919
E-Mail: lotharwalther@mindspring.com (http://www.lothar-walther.de/310.php?step=2)
Internet: www.lothar-walther.com

Look in "Pistol Barrel Products, Barrel Blanks, then either

Chrome-Moly Steel (http://www.lothar-walther.com/384.php)
Chrome-Moly Steel (Polygon Profile) (http://www.lothar-walther.com/386.php)
Stainless Steel (http://www.lothar-walther.com/385.php)
Stainless Steel (Polygon Profile) (http://www.lothar-walther.com/387.php)


As is your Preference.

I chose "Chrome-Moly Steel" as I wanted a blued barrel to match the Frame. It also seems to be of Lower Price than the Stainless Steel Barrel Blanks.

The first entry in the 'Cr-Mo' Blanks list is the 6.35mm/.25ACP one I bought.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

A Pair of Photos of my Ruger .25ACP Single Eight:

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/d188c16b-a324-4982-a3a8-9e5006fbfc6b_zpsgzw6diji.jpg
Cylinder on Left is .25ACP chambered. Cylinder on Right is .250ALRM chambered.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/74761463-0a98-4752-ac7e-167975407455_zpstr9njjmw.jpg
Side View of cylinders with Cartridges partially inserted.
The .25ACP has a .905" OAL. The other Cartridge is a .25ALS of .1.125" case length and 1.350" OAL. The cylinders have a Length at the Chambers of 1.415".
A .250ALRM of !.250" case length needs to be loaded to a Maximum OAL of 1.405" to Function in the revolver.

The .25ALRM and .25ALS are made from Hornet Brass Swaged down to .276" Body Diameter and the rims Trimmed to .050" thick by about .308" Diameter to fit the chambers.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

Chev. I never cease to be amazed by your project and execution... You seem to be having a heck of a good time. I think you're great!

[Chev. William]

Patience and Perseverance seem to Serve with a Restricted Budget to get The Projects done eventually.
I am Presently 73 years plus months old and my retirement is basically a Fixed Annuity with rising Taxes, Utility costs, and other Items growing in costs.
My Hope is to get the Projects done into a shoot-able condition while I still have Some 'Discretionary Spending Funds' left in my Budget.
Thank you for your Kind comments.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: I have fired this revolver with a 3.0 grain charge of BE-86 under a 63 grain FP lead Bullet and a 3.1 Grain charge of BE-86 under a 50 grain FMJ-RN in PPU .25ACP cases; case length .612"; 63 Gr. Bullet seating depth of .242"; OAL of .905". The 50 gr. had a Bullet seating depth of .168" for the same .905" OAL. Both Charges seem to be lightly compressed. Also a .3cc Lee Dipper seems to hold 3.0 grains of BE-86 level full.

WARNING: This pair of recipes are NOT SUITABLE for Semi-Auto Pistols or other short Barrel firearms of dubious Strength! DO NOT USE in Such Firearms!

In my Ruger they both had more "kick' and 'Report' than Factory .25ACP loads but seemed to shoot to the same Point of Aim/Impact.
I do not have velocity data for them yet.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This July has been 'Famine' followed by a short 'Feast' with the Month ending in 6 week days of Work at 9 to 11 hours A day, in Spite of The Hot weather. The Bad part - No time to work with, or on, My 'home Projects'. The Good part - Two Paychecks will be a help with my Finances. And I have a possible third Paycheck due as I am to be working the Same Job the 1st of August.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Earlwb]

You (and your gunsmith too) did a great job on that conversion. It turned out really nice too. I like it. Congratulations.

[Chev. William]

I am currently waiting for "Discretionary Spending Funds" so I can get some more range time with the Ruger Single Eight. I did have my gunsmith open the cylinder throats out so they don't shave Lead. as originally Made the throats were sized for .250" FMJ bullets and my Lead bullets are sized .25!" and kept building "lead rings" at the front of the Chambers, necessitating running a Brush and a couple of patches through the Chambers after a Few Shots.

I now have The 'revised Cylinders back in hand ($20 for the Work). Also Drooled over another Used Ruger Convertible Single Six they have for sale. it has its original case and paper work with it and Both .22LR and .22WMR cylinders are Present.

I am thinking of using my Tax Refunds to buy it if it is not sold sooner.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Tuesday, September 6th, I returned to my LGS with money but the .22 Cal. 'Convertible Single Six was gone. Sigh.
So I looked Again and saw a Ruger .32 H&R Magnum Single Six! I ended up buying that one and am now waiting for the California Mandated "Waiting Period to run out before Taking Possession. It is a Used firearm, on a consignment sale with a Holster included in the Package.

Discussions with the Gunsmith and his trying a '.22LR' cylinder in the frame leads us to believe it will be reasonably easy to make a .22WMR 6 shot Cylinder into a .32 Long Colt Cylinder to fit the frame.
This will be Intended to fire Long colt diameter Cases of .930" Length with 'Accurate Mold' 311090A Heeled inside Lube groove Bullets of 90 grain weight. I have a Mold with "Matt's Bullets" to cast the Bullets for me.

So, eventually I will have a revolver that can handle .32 S&W Shorts, .32 S&W Longs, .32 S&W Specials, .32 H&R Magnums, .32 Long Colt, and .32 Short Colt cartridges. All with a 5-5/8 inch barrel.

More Range fun to come.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

9-11-2001 15th Anniversary has been 'Quiet around here' with dogs and I mostly Staying inside out of the 'Warm' weather.

I received a second "6,35 x 28.6mm SR Stewart" Fixed Pilot Chamber Reamer from PT&G so I now have a spare. It was on "Clearance Sale" so was about half the cost of the first one. Now I need to 'conserve my Money' for the rest for the Month.

Have A SAFE Remembrance of the Day and its History.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[lar45]

Hi Chev, what a great project!
What kind of performance are you getting from the longer cases? 250 ALRM?

Keep up the good work. :)

[Piedmont]

I was under the impression that the Single Six .32 Magnums had a slightly larger cylinder than the .22 versions. If that is the case, it nixes the rechambering a .22 Magnum cylinder idea.

This is an interesting project.

[Chev. William]

Hi Chev, what a great project!
What kind of performance are you getting from the longer cases? 250 ALRM?

Keep up the good work. :)


So far No Chronograph results on the Longer cases from my experiments; but another Poster, "Gar" has done some Tested firings of "6.35x28mmSR" in his CF converted Stevens Favorite rifles.
As He and I both desire tho keep these little Favorites shooting for a Long Time we try to limit the charges so they stay around 1100fps or below.
I believe Gar posted his results, or I copied and posted them, in Threads on this Forum earlier this year.
In general, if I remember correctly, he found a charge of around 2 grains of Bullseye behind a 65 grain Lyman .257420 sized to .251" gave him the desired Velocity.

My future trips to the Commercial Range may yield more and higher velocity information out of my Ruger Single Eight now that I have replacements for the "Shot Away" Sky screens for my chronograph that resulted from the Last Session at the range.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: You might check the following Thread on this Forum for some chronograph Data reports:
".250/.257 Cartridges to .25ACP/.25 Stevens Diameters from 5.7x28mm once fired brass."
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I was under the impression that the Single Six .32 Magnums had a slightly larger cylinder than the .22 versions. If that is the case, it nixes the rechambering a .22 Magnum cylinder idea.

This is an interesting project.

According to Measurements taken, and fit trials done, at the Local Gun Shop when I purchased The .32 H&R Mag. Ruger Single Six the Cylinders are close to the overall same size, just machined slightly differently.
The .22 Mag. cylinder has the rims surrounded by Steel via 'rebated' Chambers and the rear cylinder face sits Closer to the Recoil face as a result.
The .32 H&R Mag. has Exposed Rims so the Rear of the cylinder is machined further from the recoil plate and the Front is closer to the Front of the Frame cutout.
It appears the Cylinder overall Lengths and Diameters are the Same according to Dial Caliper Measurements.
Where the Chamber Portion is in that overall length is slightly different, which means that Both cylinders would need modifications to be interchangeable in the same frame. Also the Barrel and forcing cone may need Modifications to enhance interchange.
There is Enough "meat" in both cylinders to allow the machining that appears to be needed, and I won't be planning to modify this revolver to take .327 Fed. Mag. Cartridges anyway.
My DESIRED mods is to get it suitable to fire the old ".32 Long Colt" Size and Type cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Too cool!

When .22 lr ammo got impossible to find, started thinking it was too bad we don't have a rimmed .25 revolver round that could be reloaded with cast boolits for less than .22s.

I should have Mentioned at the time tht the .25ACP is a "Semi-Rimmed" design and is head spaced upon the RIM. My 'Metric named' cartridge designs also have "Semi-Rimmed" Designs as the rim diameter is the same as the parent 5.7x28mm of about .314" diameter or smaller.
Chev. William

[Piedmont]

Chev. William, Looking this over again there is something I don't understand. You posted you converted an eight shot .22 Mag cylinder. I thought all these .22 Single Sixes were six shot or ten in the new Single Ten Ruger introduced not long ago. Obviously I have a knowledge gap on these. When did Ruger make 8 shot .22 Single Sixes?

I love the way the Single Sixes balance. They make Blackhawks feel like oversized bricks. You have me thinking. A .32 Long Single Six might be a perfect toy/small game revolver, though your .25 is likely just as good.

[Chev. William]

Chev. William, Looking this over again there is something I don't understand. You posted you converted an eight shot .22 Mag cylinder. I thought all these .22 Single Sixes were six shot or ten in the new Single Ten Ruger introduced not long ago. Obviously I have a knowledge gap on these. When did Ruger make 8 shot .22 Single Sixes?

I love the way the Single Sixes balance. They make Blackhawks feel like oversized bricks. You have me thinking. A .32 Long Single Six might be a perfect toy/small game revolver, though your .25 is likely just as good.


As to When Ruger Started making .22LR and .22 Mag 8 Shot cylinders; I honestly do not know.
I bought my 'replacement 8 Shot cylinders' from Numerich Arms (gunpartscorp.com) and have found some for sale on Ebay also. I believe Ruger has Developed 'Single Six' versions in 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 shot with the latter limited in space to enlarge the chambers.

The 8 Shot versions have "good meat" left for the increase to .25 Caliber and can be opened, I believe, to accept rim diameters up to .350" without breaking out the wall between rim counterbores.

due to the Larger cartridge in the .32 Version, my gunsmith and I will be modifying 6 shot cylinders originally in .22RF/.22MAG. size. The other consideration is the wall thickness between the chamber and the Cylinder Lock Feature. Perhaps a cylinder with 7 chambers would be better suited for rework to .327 Federal magnum Cartridges as the Locking Feature is NOT in line with the chamber wall, making a thin spot there as in even numbered chamber cylinders.

Re: your thinking of a ".32 Long" Single Six. It IS doable WITHOUT changing the Firing Pin Position in a .22 RF convertible Single Six by using .22 Cal. Blanks, inserted in concentric .32 Long (.78 to .93" case length), or .32 extra Long (1.15" case length), Adapter Cases, as Primers to ignite Propellant charges. Obviously cartridge Overall Length is limited to about 1.400" by the Single Six (.22 Cal) Cylinder length. Barrel Still needs changing though (a Take off Ruger .32 H&R Magnum barrel Perhaps).
Information on the converter adapters is included in the Thread on reloading .32 rimfires on this Forum.

The Ruger .32 H&R Magnum Single Six with a six shot cylinder, might be an easier conversion but would require rework to handle the smaller diameter Colt Case Bodies.
Alternatively .32 S&W Longs fit the Existing .32 H&R MAG. Cylinder as they are shorter in case length.

Best Regards,
chev. William
Best Regards,

[Jtarm]

I should have Mentioned at the time tht the .25ACP is a "Semi-Rimmed" design and is head spaced upon the RIM. My 'Metric named' cartridge designs also have "Semi-Rimmed" Designs as the rim diameter is the same as the parent 5.7x28mm of about .314" diameter or smaller.
Chev. William

Hmm, didn't know that.

So how's the accuracy?

[Chev. William]

Mine or The Revolver? Ha Ha.
I am Still getting used to this Long barrel and my 'grip' is not good. So my Personal accuracy is still "Poor".
The revolver, on the other hand, in the hands of a person with Good Grip and Shooting Skills, seems to have 75 to 100 yard potential, even with Factory .25ACP Ammo.
A friend was consistently hitting a 12" round steel plate at the 100 yard line of the shooting range using factory .25ACP ammo.

Is it a Long Range Shooter? I don't know. And I will not know anytime soon as I am more interested in strengthening my Wrists to hold it better and getting the other Cylinders done so I can develop my Cartridge designs. as such firing through a Chronograph at 7 yard line targets is in the Near future for this revolver.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today, just before the first Presidential Candidate Debate, My PTG ".25 Magnum Auto" Finish Chamber Reamer arrived. YEA!!!
Now I need to Verify its dimensions before I use it.
Does Look "PURRTY" Though.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The New PTG ".25 Magnum Auto. FIN Reamer does cut a usable Chamber, i made a "dummy chamber in a Blank die body i had on hand.
The Reamer, along with a Rim counterbore Tool to fit the .22 Hornet Parent Rim diameter, my Dummy chamber, and a Replacement 8-Shot Ruger .22-MAG Cylinder for Rework went ot My gunsmith and are in his line to get done.


Now I Wait. Patiently I Hope.

Best Results,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith is off on a Location Movie Shoot for about 3 weeks so my Projects are on Hold for the Moment.
This is his "Bread and Butter Work" and gunsmith work fills in the time between.

This time of year my 'Disposable Funds' shrink due to Property Tax bills and other 'End of Year' cost items.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Yesterday, December 1st 2016, I received my New PT&G "Premium 6.35x28.6mmSR STEWART Finish Chamber Reamer" in the USPS mail! YEA!!!!
It will go, along with a Replacement 8-shot .22-MAG Ruger Single Six Cylinder, to have the chambers done over to this cartridge; Next week when my gunsmith is due back in the shop.
This Cylinder, 'number three', will join my existing 'number one' in .25ACP and 'number four' in .250ALRM/6.35x32SR Stewart. 'Number two' is already in work as a .25 Magnum Auto/6.35x26mmSR Stewart cylinder.
Future plans are for a 'number five' cylinder; which will be a Straight cylinder chamber design of .278" diameter to take .25ACP with out the normal Chamber Taper of semi-Auto pistols.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Happy New Year as it is January 1st, A Sunday this year.
My gunsmith is now back at work in the shop and now has my new Reamer and the donor cylinder resubmitted (I had submitted it earlier with my original reamer which turned out to be a ROUGHING chamber reamer).

Now to be Patient as he has to 'Catch up on the Backlog before doing any of my "low budget items".

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Jan.21st: No Word of Progress on my Cylinders yet.
I do have an order in, and paid for, to Lee for three more "Opened" sizing dies; two in .32 sizing to .325" body diameter and one sizing to .288" body diameter. This will give me a spare .288" sizing die for my .25 caliber projects and both a working sizing die and a backup spare for my .32 Caliber projects.

Also this month I have installed a solar power system, of nominal 5KW generating Maximum Capacity that so far seems to be running at about 60 percent average peak or around 35 percent mean levels due to the current Weather Patterns over my home.

i incurred a Long term Personal 'Unsecured' loan to pay for the Installation; which I will need to pay off at about $202 a month for about 180 payments.

The Installation included; all mountings, 17 large solar panels, 17 individual DC/DC power Conditioners, a 5KW DC/Ac power synchronous Inverter, DC and AC Safety disconnects, a new 200 Amp Power service panel, wiring, and will have an new Power 200 Amp capable Drop installed from the Los Angeles Department of water and Power Pole to my Home, which should happen within the next five business days.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: The "5 business Days" turned into "3 to 6 weeks" upon my calling my contractor again. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Still No Progress on my cylinders nor my Sizing dies.

Today I did get a call for an Inspection appointment from LA-DWP for today between 1000 and 1200.

Chev. William

PS: He Came looked, and did NOT approve the installation.
1. The contractor use a Siemens Disconnect that has an opaque insulating ARC Shield in it so he could Not See either the Switch Contacts nor the Wire Connections. He wants a Disconnect without an ARC Shield it seems.
2. He did not like that there was uneven dirt, tread down plants in front of the Service panel and wants a Smooth Hard surface at least 3ft x 3 ft for access to the Panel(s).
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Last week my contractor came out and replaced the Siemens Disconnect unit with a Larger 'Square D' Disconnect Switch and box. this one does NOT have anything between the Wires, Connections, and Switch Contacts to protect Users from accidental contact/Arc Flash Injuries except the outside weather cover.
Also this last week I obtained some 18"x24"x2" Concrete Walkway paving 'stones' to place in front of the Service Panels and had my Yard Maintenance Service Person remove the Remains of the trod down plantings before setting the 'stones' in place.

My contractor took photos of the Corrected/Updated Installation and emailed them to the LA-DWP inspector for proof of Correctins.

I received an Email reply indicating the installation is now 'Approved' and is scheduled for LA-DWP to change out my Pole drop and install a "New" meter before He will issue an OK to Operate my system. They indicated it could be about SIX WEEKS for them to get around to the work due to Other Work still having Priority. It seems there is still Storm Damage to be repaired first.

On Other subjects:
1. I now have Four 'Story 8-Shot replacement Cylinders' for the Ruger Single Six Revolver. these will be used to make None Tapered Wall Chambered Cylinders for my Custom Revolver.

2. I also Have a .278" diameter straight piloted chucking reamer that is out to have the Pilot, which is too Large, ground down to take replaceable pilot bushings similar to my Premium chamber Reamers.

3. Weather here has been Dry and Warmer than normal for this time of year. It looks like I will need to Water My remaining Plantings tomorrow. This will be a first watering in about Two months.

4. I have sent a Barrel and Liner to Taylor Machine to have the Liner installed. This is a 'Bubba Shortened' 1890 .22WRF barrel that will be lined to .25ACP and end up about 20 inches long, instead of the Winchester 24 inch long originals.

5. No word yet on my three Lee 'Opened' sizing dies; but they should be getting close to completion now.

6. My gunsmith is still backed up and not accepting any 'new work' trying to get the Backlog down again. they 'closed the shop last Thursday for a Location Shoot for a TV series. I do not know if they were also able to get in any Backlog work at the same time.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

May 1st and here is an Update:

1. My Four 'Story 8-Shot replacement Cylinders' for the Ruger Single Six Revolver are still waiting for my gunsmith to OK my bringing them in for re-chambering. these will be used to make None Tapered Wall Chambered Cylinders for my Custom Revolver.

2. No word yet from the re-grinder on my .278" diameter straight piloted chucking reamer that is out to have the Pilot, which is too Large, ground down to take replaceable pilot bushings similar to my Premium chamber Reamers.

3. Weather here has been Dry, normal for this time of year. It looks like I will need to Water My remaining Plantings again. interestingly, my Rose bushes have been Blooming this year Far more than the last three Years.

3. I have Received the Lined 20" Long 'Stevens .25 ACP' lined Barrel back from John Taylor, it is a Beautiful job. This is a 'Bubba Shortened' 1890 .22WRF barrel that is lined to .25ACP and was 20' inches long, instead of the Winchester 24 inch long originals. I now have this "Carbine length" barrel ready for final fitting to a Win. 1890 type three Action I am converting to a .25ACP pump action Repeater.

5. My three Lee 'Opened' sizing dies Arrived!

6. My gunsmith is still backed up and not accepting any 'new work' trying to get the Backlog down again. I do not know if they were also able to get in any Backlog work at the same time.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[GL49]

Whoa!!
Did I read it correctly that you're going to convert an 1890 to 25acp? I've got an old 1906 in my garage, the barrel doesn't show any lands or grooves, just rust. It used to belong to my uncle, and was a rust-pile when I got it from my cousins who stored it in their basement. It still has a couple of pipe wrench marks on the barrel where they had tested their gunsmithing skills, and the bolt is missing. I had thought about converting it to 25acp because it would just be different, but I wasn't sure how to convert the cartridge stop and lifter to fit a 25. I'm going to have to follow this to see what you do.

[Chev. William]

Yes, you did read it correctly. The Thread Title is:
Winchester 1890 conversion project.As I state, it is a "Putter Project" and is going slowly as time and money permit and is being done to Type 3 1890 Winchester parts I bought off of Ebay over time.

From your Post I gather you have a rusty one that is missing the Bolt Assembly.
Do you have the Rest of the Rifle parts or are other items missing?
is your carrier/lifter a 'single length cartridge' type or a 'multiple length cartridge' type?

If your Barrel is in need of Lining, I recommend John Taylor of Taylor Machine; a Poster on this web site. He does an excellent job, is Quick of Work and Reasonable in Cost.
My relined Barrel has a ! in 14" Twist to it that is 'slow' for th eheavier bullet sI intend to try but suitable for Factory 50 grain .25ACP loads.

My type 3 action has the Bolt Lugs protruding through the Sides of the Front Housing.
A type 2 actin has Bolt Lugs NOT protruding through the Housing sides.

Be aware that the action design will require careful 'tuning' of the Firing pin tip length to be able to fire a cartridge yet allow the Bolt to be unlocked and opened after firing as the firing pin remains extended during the Unlock movement dragging the tip Up on the Primer and Case Head.

I am using a 5/64" diameter Dowel Pin for my new firing Pin tip as an easily Replace item if mine gets bent or broken in development.

My Intended Carrier/Lifter is a Modified .22WRF one that will be fitted with the 'Toggle' part from a multiple Length cartridge type (usually listed as a "S-L-LR" carrier/Lifter assembly) as the WRF one wil require only opening the cartridge Recess to accept the .25 ACP cartridge Rim then 'slotting' the Lower lip to take the 'toggle' and drilling the retaining pin hole.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

the Last week of Evenings has been employed in Swaging down 90 once fired 5.7x28mm Cases to .25ACP diameters.
I am doing this in a Four step Swaging process using Lee 'Opened" .25ACP carbide ring Sizing Dies. The 'opened nominal diameters are .300", .288" .284", then a standard one at .276" that leaves the base at about .280" diameter, followed by a "Hollywood Engineering" Hardened Sizing die that brings the base to about .277" diameter.

So far this case lot is coming out at about 1.240" length due to 'growth' in the swaging process as the diameter is reduced.

I still need to expand the Neck/shoulder areas to fit my .250" diameter Jacketed bullets using a 'homemade expander punch' of about .250" made from a 1/4 inch diameter Drill Blank.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[GL49]

Yes, the only thing missing from the rifle is just the bolt assembly. The 1906 I have is labeled, S-L-LR, and has the bolt locking lugs protruding through the sides of the housing. I was going to locate a bolt and modify this to 25acp, "just because", and stopped when I tried to fit a case into the lifter assembly, I kinda chickened out and started to rethink whether I should just sleeve it to 22RF. I was wondering about the firing pin issue. After I got a bolt, I was going to see if the firing pin and bolt could be modified and have a return spring installed to push it back into the bolt housing, the inertia of the pin itself would cause it to protrude through the bolt housing to strike the primer.
I'm headed off now to find the other thread.
Thanks!

[Chev. William]

I See Type 3 Bolt assemblies often on Ebay (I search with "Winchester 1890" or "Winchester 1890 1906 62 Rifle" to get the Part auctions listed).

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Back to .25 Cartridges:
I loaded my Formed "6,35x28.6mmSR" (.25 Stevens Long Sizes) Cases with Win Magnum Small Pistol Primers and took five to load with H-110 Propellant in stepped charge Weights behind resized (to .250"-.251" Diameter) Hornady #2510 60 grain Flat Soft Point Jacketed bullets.
Charge wights were:
6.0 grain (visually below bullet Base when Seated), 6.5 grain ( Visually Just below Bullet), 7.0 grain (Visually Just above Bullet Seated Base) 7.5 grain (Compressed), and 8.0 grain (Heavy Compressed).
All cartridges were Seated so they were less than 1.400" long overall and then separately Roll Crimped with the Crimped Mouth rolling into the Bullet cannelure.

All bullet Noses were Distorted by the Radius cup of the Lee Stock .25ACP seating Stem, with the top of the Jacket Bulging out slightly to somewhat behind the Soft lead tip.

Now comes the Quandary:
Should I fire these Loads out of my Ruger Single Eight Revolver's ".250ALRM" chambered Cylinder across A Chronograph?

Obviously; there WILL be High Pressures Developed from these Loads.
How High?
NO current Idea.

Closest Guess; the 8.0 may develop about 1650fps out of my 10-5/8" long Barrel.

What Do the readers Think?

NOTE: There Is NO Powder Manufacturer Published Load data for this Powder in this Cartridge. This is a "Wildcat" Cartridge made from a CF "5.7x28mm" Once Fired Case by Swaging its diameter down from .314" to .276" in four steps after expanding the Neck/Shoulder to .250" Inside Diameter.
The Parent case was rated for about 50,000psi MAP so the Walls are thicker than original .25 Stevens RF cases which were Rated at about 25,000psi MAP.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Test Firing still On Hold due to my 'mobility problems' and Finances at this time.

In addition, my gunsmith is out of the shop for Joint replacement surgery and recovery at this time, so no progress on my two cylinder re-chamber projects Pending in his shop.

Best Regards,
Chev. Willaim

[Chev. William]

Placed an order for a .25ACP Finish Revolver Chamber reamer with JGS Precision Machining in Coos Bay. This Reamer Will be for a Straight Cylindrical Chamber of .2795" Diameter.
My intent is to Reduce or Eliminate The Fired Case BULGE just forward of the Web from a SAAMI Tapered Wall Chamber. using my Dial Caliper, I measured a new Case at .2760" Diameter at both the Neck And At The Wall forward of the web.
A Fired Case measures .2845" over the BULGE and about .280" at the Neck.
Yes, i know the Dial Caliper is only Accurate to .001" but I am Interpolating the pointer Position between Marks to give an Idea of the diameter Increase that I have to remove in sizing the fired Brass.

JGS said it would take about eight Weeks at current Order backlog.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Eldon]

Terrific thread !

[Traffer]

There are Three Listed CF replacements for the .25 Stevens RF cartridge.
the first one I found is the ".25-10 Halsted" which is made from .22 Hornet parent brass and required reboring the rifles to accept .257" diameter bullets. I found it can also be loaded with.251" bullets and so could use the original bore/Groove dimensions ,which it shares with the .25ACP and alternative cartridge that fits the .25 Stevens Chambers but due to the LONG distance from cartridge mouth to rifling seems to be a little poorer in accuracy department.

The third cartridge is "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS" pair of designs. The two share case dimensions in general but differ in the Parent brass from which they are Made.

Case length for the Halsted, the Stewart, and the .250ALS is 1.125" nominal; diameter is .276" for the body; rims vary from .302" to .348" diameter; Rim thickness is limited to about .050 nominal (.043" min to .053" max; overall length varies depending upon bullet and intended use. 1.400" max for my Ruger Revolver due to cylinder length and up to about 2.03" for a Single shot STRONG Action Rifle with a 120 grain Plastic tip Boat tail bullet and loaded to 50,000psi MAP. I just bought two more LW Blanks for Barrels and they currently are just over 1" diameter and about 23.8" long. Mr. Woodward, of LW in America, tells me the current barrel blanks may be made into accurate barrels with only loosing about .050" of each end for a maximum barrel length of 23.7" possible. Twist Rate for the Latest barrel blanks is stated as 1 turn in 9.8" RH.

Willie Clark told me he turned my barrel between centers, and let it cool between cuts to retain its innate accuracy. I have the Cut off section from my LW Blank that he used, it measures 12-3/4" long.

Other Case lengths I will be getting cylinders cut for are:
"6.35x26mmSR Stewart/.25MACP (Magnum Auto Colt Pistol)" at 1.056" maximum and 1.024" nominal Case length (the 1.055" is the Same as .22WMR case length).
"6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS (Auto Long Stevens)" at 1.126" maximum and 1.125" Nominal Trim case length (same as .25 Stevens (Long) RF cases).

In my Ruger all of the Cartridges are limited to a loaded length of less than 1.405"; hence the practical limit of 1.400" and less.

Now If I can find some Manufacturer to make double ended wadcutters of about 60 to 70 grains that size to .251"-.252" or Hollow ones in the same weight range (hollow on one end so they could be loaded either Hollow Point or Hollow Base) . . . . .

Best Regards,
Chev. William

I will try to make you up some of those hollow wad cutters you want. I can do it with my swaging set up. Just have to make the dies. .251" ? I could powder coat them too if you want. No grease groves, Can't swage in the grease grooves.

[Chev. William]

I will try to make you up some of those hollow wad cutters you want. I can do it with my swaging set up. Just have to make the dies. .251" ? I could powder coat them too if you want. No grease groves, Can't swage in the grease grooves.

Traffer,
That offer Sounds Very Good!
.250" Swaged Diameter seems like it would allow for the Powder coating Thickness and Still fit my Cases And cylinder Throats.
Please Advise what I need to pay You for them.
I live in Sun Valley, CA 91352-3568 for Shipping charge determinations.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Traffer]

Will let you know when I get close to having them done. I checked today and don't have the correct reamers. I might have to buy some and I get them from China so it may be a couple of weeks. There may be a way I can do it without reamers. I will be checking that out in the next couple of days. You can pay shipping but since I offered, I wouldn't charge you for the bullets.

[Chev. William]

More Puttering:
This Morning, while it was Cool in the Morning Overcast and Fog, I finished De-capping my last Batch of Once Fired 5.7x28mm Cases, found one with a Live Primer AND a Bullet Inside! Set it aside until i had completed the De-capping of the rest! Then used my Lee "Universal Expander Die to Over Expand the Neck far enough to let The Bullet drop out, it was a Jacketed Flat Base one that weighed about 30 Grains.
This makes about 3000 Cases de-capped and of tht about 700 That have been resized down and trimmed for my Experiments so far, with another 410 in the process.
I think Now I have almost A "Lifetime supply' for my experiments.
Most of the Current lot seem to be Date Coded as 2014 Manufacture FNB 'military' as they had Crimped in Primers.
They Probably will reform And lengthen to about 1.230" Length and I will Trim Them as Needed for my experiments.
1.125" for .25ALS; 1.055" for .25 Magnum Auto; .960" For .25ALR as Needed or as they Neck split to extent The useful life. Annealing is NOT a Choice as these Are Polymer coated cases.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[brettb75]

Awesome idea. I'd love to try it out in the squirrel woods. I'm not a fan of small game hunting with the .22 revolver. I'm looking into the ruger single 7 myself to hunt with the .32 long. I think the .25 could be fantastic for small game.

[Chev. William]

The .25 Stevens (Long) RF cartridge used A 67 grain Lead bullet over about 10 Grains of Black Powder to yield about 1100fps Muzzle Velocity (Just subsonic). Later, the Smokeless Powder Commercial cartridges were Slowed down to about 940fps.

The .25 Stevens was Considered useful for Target work out to about 150-200 Yards, even with their "Rainbow Arch Trajectory". They were also considered Better for "Pot Meat" hunting than the .22 LR, which was loaded to Supersonic Muzzle Velocities.

So, Yes the .25 has a good history of success in a Barrel Suited to it (.250" Groove diameter NOT .257" Groove Diameter).

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Just Tried out my New Lee "Universal Expander" Die with the Small Cartridge Expander stem Turned To .250" diameter. Outstanding results! The Die / Stem expands the Neck/Shoulder of 5.7x28 Cases Enough so the Swaging Process Removes the Felt evidence of The Prior Neck and Shoulder Junctions. My Prior Expander was a .2500" Drill Blank machined With a tapered end and Chucked in my Bench Drill Press for Use. It left a Slight Felt difference in diameters in the Area of the Neck and Shoulder Joints in my Swaged cases.

Very Happy with this new Modified Expander and Die!

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

An Update to this thread:
1. I have received two Custom .2795" nominal Body diameter Finish chamber reamers from JGS Precision, a ".25ACP WS #1" and a ".25ALR WS #2" that I have passed to my gunsmith along with two Aftermarket 1144 Alloy Steel 8-shot ".22MAG" Cylinders for reaming and chambering to the respective Cartridges.
2. I have received 1000 each "lubed and sized" Lyman #257420 bullets that weigh about 74 grains each, about 150 percent of the Nominal 50 grain .25ACP bullets.
3. 500 of the Lyman #257420 bullets have been resized down to .250" diameter for use in my experiments.

4. On a Sadder Note: The Recent "Creek Fire" caused significant damage to the "Angeles Shooting Ranges" that I frequent for my outdoor Shooting Pleasure. due to the Damage the ranges are closed for use until they can rebuild the destroyed Buildings and Range facilities.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RJM52]

This has been a truly wonderful thread...

How is the electricity system working out??

Sorry to hear about the range...

Please post pics of the new rounds and bullets when you have time...

Bob

[Chev. William]

This has been a truly wonderful thread...

How is the electricity system working out??
A: My Solar Panel installation is working to its real capacity, not the Stated 5.44kw Peak it was supposed to generate. I believe this is due to the engineering calculations being done using ONE pair of Azimuth and Elevation angles for all three separate panel orientations as installed. -- Chev. William

Sorry to hear about the range...

Please post pics of the new rounds and bullets when you have time...
A: I have posted Photos of the Dummy Cartridges of .25ACP, .25ALR, .25MACP, and .25ALS previously as assembled with Hornady #2510 60 grain bullets sized down to .250" diameter. but I will repost Photo if you desire. -- Chev. William

Bob

Best Regards for this Merry Christmas and New Year Holiday Season,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

RJM52,
Please see the thread " .25 Auto Long rifle Wildcat." post number one for a Photo of the dummy Cartridges I had Assembled then.
Chev, William

[Chev. William]

I received my new JGS Precision ".25 MACP WS#3" finish revolver chamber reamer with its straight cylindrical body of .2795" nominal diameter.

i will be having an 8-shot aftermarket 1144 alloy steel .22Mag Ruger cylinder reamed and chambered with it as soon as my gunsmith finishes up some of my other projects he has in his shop now.

Here is a photo of some of my wildcat cartridges.
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/250ALxx%20Family%20Cartridge%20project/c8fe7e32-b369-477c-956d-726b177c4396_zpszp8ajiqx.jpg
Left to Right: .25ACP @.905" OAL; .25ALR @1.293" OAL; .25 Magnum Auto. @.1.366" OAL; .25ALS @ 1.407" OAL. All With .250" sized Hornady #2510 60 grain Jacketed Soft Flat Point Bullet.
Note: .25ACP Case Length = .612"; .25ALR Case Length = .960"; .25 Magnum Auto. Case Length = 1.055"; .25ALS Case Length = 1.125".

chev. William

[Chev. William]

My new ".25 MACP WS#3" finish reamer is now in the hands of my gunsmith.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Tried An Experiment using a .277" ID Hardened Alloy Steel Drill Bushing held lightly in a Modified Sizing Die with The 'Exit' end used as the mouth for my 'sizing trial'.

i used a Formed .22Hornet Case that I had swaged down to .25 Stevens diameter. This case had a taper segment starting about .300" above the Base (at .276" diameter) increasing in diameter (to about .280"-.282" just above the extractor clearance cut).

I forced the Case all the way into the Bushing until the rim hit the Bottom mouth of the die. then extracted it via a Punch and Hammer.

The bottom of the case now measures .278" diameter below the .276" diameter Body.
A very Fine, thin, 'sheared' ring of Brass slid off by finger action.

This is Encouraging!

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith informed me that he has a set of Ruger .22MAG cylinders reamed out and ready for fitting to my Custom Ruger .25ACP Single Eight Revolver's frame; so in the next few days I will be taking the Revolver in for his use.

Yesterday, I also Took possession of a Ruger Standard Auto pistol MKII version that has Molded Volquartsen Target Grips installed. I will be having the sights replaced with adjustable Target Rear and a new front blade. Then I will use it to "play" with .221 Askins or .22 Ladybug-repeater CF Cartridges after getting The Bolt converted to Center Fire.
It has the shorter Tapered Barrel presently but i am thinking of possible future re-barreling it to a longer one.

Che. William

[Chev. William]

Late September Update:
My gunsmith is out of the Shop doing some movie work so no Progress on my new cylinders.

I now have two additional JGS Precision finishe chamber reamers in my series of Cylindrical, rather than Tapered, chambers for use in Revolvers or rifles.
A. ".25ALS WS#4" which is for case length of 1.125" nominal.
B. ".25ALRM WS#5" which is for case length of 1.250" Nominal.

This is my current collection of .25 Chamber reamers:
.25ACP by PT&G.
.250ALRM by PT&G.
6.35x26mm or .25Magnum by PT&G.
6.35x28.6mm or .25 Auto. Long Stevens by PT&G.
6.35x32mm or .25 Auto. Extra Long Stevens or .25 Auto. Long Rifle Magnum by PT&G.
All the above PT&G Reamers are Tapered bodies.
.25ACP WS (#1) by JGS Precision.
.25ALR WS #2 by JGS precision.
.25MACP WS #3 by JGS Precision.
.25ALS WS #4 by JGS Precision.
.25ALRM WS #5 by JGS Precision.
All the JGS precision ones are Cylindrical body without taper.

Most of these are with my gunsmith for reaming my chambers.
This is about three years of slow purchases.
Retirement is hard on 'disposable Funds'.

Chev. William

[Char-Gar]

My first thought was that you had lost your mind. But it took less that 3 second to realize you had a great idea. It would be a small game handgun par excellant. I do think I would have to bob the barrel back a few inches to maybe 6.5.

How was the change from rim fire to center fire accomplished?

[Chev. William]

The Conversion of my Ruger Single Six from Rim Fire to Center Fire was done by My gunsmith by machining a custom floating firing pin with an offset tip and a bushing with an offset hole to pass the New tip.

Conversion from Six to Eight, I Think, only required trimming a new indexing hand for the required rotation.

"Teething problems" with the conversion included the First .25ACP cylinder with the Tapered chambers (suitable for Auto. Pistol use) being marginally too 'deep' as two of the eight chambers have the head space slightly on the long end and occasionally yield FTF.
This was improved some by making another firing pin bushing to move the Bushing face slightly closer to the Cylinder rear face, reducing the head space to closer to nominal, or more toward the Minimum.

Another problem with the Tapered chambers was that the fired Cases had a 'Bulged ring' just forward of the case web. It seems expanding a .278" Max. Diameter case into the larger bore of The Taper exceeded the 'Elastic Limit' of the brass, leaving it at about .280"-282" diameter just ahead of The base web.
Factory Cases of 'less that Maximum (.278") diameter' obviously are stretched more in this area.

As delivered from my gunsmith after the Custom conversions, the sights patterned about 4"-5" Left of Point of aim and about 3"-4" low. Sight adjustments fixed that.

To date, I have fired about 600 rounds through the revolver with about 100-150 being Factory PPU 50 grain FMJ ammo and the rest being various Lead 50, 63 grain and some 60 and 74 grain J-Word experiments.
Charges run from 1.1 grain of BE to 1.89 grain of BE, 1.5 grain of BE-86 to 3.1 grain of BE-86, and a few 5.0 grain to 5.3 grain Black Powder.
(took three days of Cleaning to get the Last of the BP fouling out of the revolver).

Interestingly, 3.1 grains of Be-86 behind 50 grain FMJ landed about the same POI as PPU factory 50 grain but had definitely greater muzzle rise and muzzle blast.
Estimated pressures seem to be about 25,000psi to 30,000psi Pmax MAP.

Since I don't have any way to Measure Pressures in this revolver (or any other firearm) we will have to be satisfied with these estimates. I do NOT plan going higher in pressures in this Revolver.
Estimated Cylinder Yield Limit is somewhere around 47,000psi. (they are 1144 Alloy Steel). Bulk yield strength is around 95,000 to 105,000psi for the alloy as manufactured.

My Barrel is made from a Lothar Walther ".25ACP/6,35mm Browning" barrel Blank by my gunsmith and is about 10-5/8" long from Forcing cone to muzzle. With the Cylinder length added it gives an equivalent of about 12 inches length.

Something looking like a "Buntline Special" sort of revolver.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

As of the New Year my revolver is still with my gunsmith and he is now back in the shop so maybe some progress will occur.

I do have a new "Toy to Play with though, a Ruger Standard Auto MKII Pistol converted to Centerfire and .25ACP cartridge. It is fitted with a tapered 8-1/8" long barrel and is chambered with my custom .2795" diameter straight parallel cylinder finish Chamber reamer by JGS Precision.
Cases load and extract nicely and it feels like a .22LR still, in bolt reaction and recoil.
So far it is 'single shot operation only' as I do not have any magazines to feed it .25ACP yet.
Accuracy at 50 Yards "Standing Off Hand" is better than I am at the moment, my friend holds it more accurately than I do!

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Friday, Feb. 1st, I picked up my Ruger "Single Eight" frame and three of The five new Cylinders from my Gunsmith's shop.
I have the .25ALRM WS #5 Cylinder, the .25ALS WS #4 Cylinder, and the .25MACP WS #3 Cylinder now.
My gunsmith is still working on remaining two new cylinders.

Saturday Dawned Dark and Dreary with Wind and Rain all day.
The blustery winds blew rain under my Patio shelter tent and dampened my reloading area well.
At least I am not worried about Flash Flooding nor Mudslides in my neighborhood.
Also I won't worry about needing to water my Trees and Shrubs according to the Weather Forecasts for the coming week.

Chev. William

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=s: Hi Chev.William.Great and interesting thread.Thanks for posting.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[psweigle]

I love to read your threads. I'm a fan of the quarter bore mouse gun caliber. I'm still gathering pieces for my single shot rifle project in 25 acp. Just curious, what mould do YOU like for the plain old 25 acp?

[Chev. William]

I have Ranch Dog's NOE made TL255-50-RF and TL255-65-RF plus Lyman 257420 for molds. the Lyman 257420 mold casts about 73 grains and after Tumble lube and sizing to .252 ends up about 74 grains.
I also have Hornady Semi-jacketed soft flat point 60 grain #2510 bullets and Hunter Supply 63 grain, .257" dia., 'Air Gun Pellets' that work well for me after sizing down to .252" dia, after tumble lube.

These Cast bullets are All commercial casting products as I do not have a Lead Casting setup and do not contemplate buying a set up at my current age of 76 years.

I start testing with 50 grain FMJ bullets to verify basic data then move to heavier bullets for load development as I want to explore the Useful range of bullets heavier than 50 grains in .25ACP and my longer 'wildcats'.

Chev. William

[psweigle]

I had an rcbs and really didn't like it, so it's gone, and am looking for a replacement. That 255-50-rf sounds like something interesting. Thank you.

[Chev. William]

I am still waiting for my gunsmith to finish my two remaining new 8-shot, .22MAG Alloy 1144 Steel aftermarket cylinders reamed out .25ACP and .25ALR with Cylindrical .2795" Diameter chambers respectively. This winter here continues Wet, Cold and Windy interspersed with some Sunny days.

Too wet or cold or windy to work in my outdoor reloading shop still.
At least my Powders and Primers are dry, snug in their sealed surplus Ammo can containers.
It looks like I will need to have a "Spring Cleaning" to clean up my tooling after this winter season of humidity induced corrosion and rust.
This month's 'Discretionary Funds' will be used up Saturday to have my two dogs Bathed and given Haircuts for their coming Spring comfort.

Their winter coats have grown thick and reduced their 'Exuberance' when let outside to 'play'.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

in here in the last seven days; but windy every afternoon so no outside loading yet.
This Sunday is forecast to be 83 Degrees out so 'the weather is a changing'.
Winter Snowpack Report was encouraging at 160 to 200 percent of normal and California and DWP water reservoirs at 80 percent capacity already, it looks like another Nondrought year with Drought rates and penalties still enforced.
It seems All Levels of Government are Addicted to the Increased Revenue they get from the 'Drought Temporary' Increases and Penalties revenues received.

The local settling basins are full already, percolating the impounded Rain into the ground water areas of the San Fernando Valley.
I wonder if the ground water level will ever get up to match what it was in the 1950s, about 69 feet down; as of the 1990s it was 212 feet Down.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith is going to be out of the shop for about a month starting May 9th to work a Film Project. Good income for him!

Chev. Wiliam

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith is back in the shop after being out for TWO Movie Projects, now to continue toward finishing two new 8-shot cylinders for my Ruger Single Eight, one in .25ACP and the other in .25ALR so I can get back to testing loads. These will be custom straight cylindrical walled chambers of .2795" diameter, no taper at all.
This should halt the 'bulging' of cases I experienced with standard Tapered Chambers.

Chev William

[Chev. William]

June 29th I picked up my completed .25ACP 8-shot Ruber Cylinder with its cylindrical .2795" diameter Chambers along with four boxes of CCI Blazer .25ACP in Aluminum cases.

Visually, the chambers look very smooth and even but the throats look like they were drilled but not reamed. I think this is OK for now as I do so want to shoot it to see how cases come out of these chambers.

My original .25ACP 8-shot cylinder was done with tapered, semi-auto style, chambers and all my fired brass came out with annular bulges just ahead of the Case Web. Not good for Long Case reloading life.

Now to plan a "Range Day" to enjoy shooting my 10-5/8" barreled Ruger Single Eight .25ACP Revolver again!

Chev. William

[woodbutcher]

:D Ahhhh ha.Let the fun begin.Looks like fun times ahead .
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo