380 vs 9mm mak

[bouncer50]

I never could never understand why the Russian went to the 9mm Mak instead of the more common 380 caliber. The 380 is a 35 caliber were the 9mm Mak is a 36 caliber. The 9mm Mak is a little faster round. I do have to admit I like the 9mm Mak round. It not hard to make ammo for the Mak from 9mm luger brass which is dirt cheap in price.

[Earlwb]

I think it was a matter of national pride. They had to have their own home grown cartridges for their weapons. Pretty much all of the countries do it too. Heck they still do it. But they did actually develop the 9x18mm Mak round at the time. It did meet their requirements for pistols and submachine guns. For unknown reasons they rejected the 9x19 Luger round as well as the .380 ACP round too.

[Petrol & Powder]

The former Soviet Union had unique ammo for just about everything they produced, including the 5.45mm x 39mm cartridge for the AK74. (not the 5.56x 45 NATO). I think it may have been more than just pride, I think they wanted to deny possible NATO adversaries the ability to use captured Soviet ammunition.

The 9x18 MAK isn't just a longer casing, it uses a different bullet diameter (.365") as well.

The Soviets distanced themselves from many western standards, even their railroad gauge (4' 11 27/32" or 1520 mm )was different than standard gauge (4' 8 1/2")

[Outpost75]

Their mortar 82mm vs our 81, their tank gun 122mm vs. our 120, their heavy machinegun 12.7x108 vs our .50 BMG (12.7x99)

[JeffG]

Like Petrol and Powder said, I also have read it was to ensure captured supplies couldn't be used by the enemy. It's a very enjoyable round to shoot. Personally, I use Starline Mak brass and don't mess with making it from 9x19 brass. It makes for fun sorting brass after tumbling 9x18 and 9x19 in the same batch.:mrgreen:

[W.R.Buchanan]

A Makarov will fire .380 ammo as long as it is fed from the magazine and the rim captured by the extractor. With most Russian ammo they are designed so that they can use yours in a pinch, but you can't use theirs.

I was always told that the Mak Round was designed so that it wouldn't work in PPK's which German Officers carried, but would work the opposite way.

Who knows what really goes on in the heads of Russians?

Randy

[Combat Diver]

Believe the Soviets took another page from the Germans at the end of WWII. The Germans had developed the 9x18 Ultra for the Lulftwaffe back in 1936 but never used. Germans brought it back out in the 70s. The 9mm Makarov was designed in 1946 to replace the 7.62x25 Tokarev which is based of the 7.63mm Mauser. Russian cartridges are measured between the lands and not by the groves. The Makarov was a easy to produce a blowback action and cheaper then a locked breech gun.


CD

[Geezer in NH]

IMHO 9MAK is closer to 9mm than the .380ACP

[TCLouis]

I made a bunch of brass for one (CZ-82) from 9mm using the Lee trim system.

I took some time, but it beat sitting in front of the puter.

The way the gun slings brass, I have never loaded it. I have to see where brass goes so I can make a brass catcher.

If one were lucky enough to get one of the CZ 82s, you gor a 13 shot 9 mm Mak.

[9.3X62AL]

I've owned an East German Makarov for about 25 years now. It is basically a Walther PP that uses steroids. Ballistically it is about a min-point between the 380 ACP and 9 x 19 Luger, assuming all 3 calibers are loaded to full-potential......which is infrequent. I have heard the system referred to as the upper limit of blow-back operation capability--it can be a bit jumpy with full-tilt ammo. Not real hard to control, but still significantly more bark and buck than most blow-back 380s. I like the little critter for CCW, and I miss carting it around after its disallowance by tightened regs in the post-HR 218 era.

[Petrol & Powder]

While the Soviets liked to be a bit different in their final designs, I've always been a bit amused with their propensity to copy other nation's basic designs.
I don't think the Soviets Ever had an original thought !! Just about everything they made was based on someone else's design. Guns, aircraft, cars, etc.
The Makarov is a copy of a the Walther PP, albeit a simplified copy that used a slightly different cartridge. It was classic Soviet dogma. Take someone else's design, copy it, simplify it and make it uniquely Soviet by making it just slightly different.

A little off topic but in WWII the Soviets ended up in possession of 4 of our B-29 bombers. We eventually got the crews back but they kept the aircraft and reverse-engineered copies of them. The Soviet version became the Tupolev TU-4 and except for engines and weapons, it was almost an exact copy of the Boeing B-29 !

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a Russian Mak and two CZ82's. There is no comparison. The CZ82's are what the Mak would have liked to have been, had it been designed by the Czechs instead of the Russians.

One of the biggest problems with all things Russian is that there is no word in the Russian Dialect for "Deburring of parts" Maks have a lot of sharp edges that take time to remove to make the gun a little friendlier to operate.

I installed a threaded barrel and compensator on mine along time ago that was manufactured by a now defunct company called FAC. During that install which requires the "COMPLETE DISASSEMBLY" of the gun, (the barrel is the very first thing put into the frame.) I followed the instructions provided with the barrel which included tips on smoothing out the gun. And it did big time. My gun is pretty decent to shoot and the Compensator actually works and tames the muzzle flip a lot. Trigger pull is nice now in both SA and DA.

The CZ's on the other hand are real joy to shoot and they are really easy to run, totally ambidextrous and very easy to hit with.

I too made Mak rounds out of 9MM brass and had fun doing it.

All of these guns are viable CCW guns, and their costs are generally pretty affordable. J&G sales has a bunch of new Bulgarian Maks right now for $300 which is a good price. The Bulgarian Maks are some of the best ones out there, and the Bulgarian language does have a word for deburring.

Randy

[Hickory]

Who knows what really goes on in the heads of Russians?

Randy

My Dr., who's roots extend to Russia and spent several years there told me this. "They don't think like regular people."

[Fishman]

I have a Russian Mak and two CZ82's. There is no comparison. The CZ82's are what the Mak would have liked to have been, had it been designed by the Czechs instead of the Russians.

One of the biggest problems with all things Russian is that there is no word in the Russian Dialect for "Deburring of parts" Maks have a lot of sharp edges that take time to remove to make the gun a little friendlier to operate.

I installed a threaded barrel and compensator on mine along time ago that was manufactured by a now defunct company called FAC. During that install which requires the "COMPLETE DISASSEMBLY" of the gun, (the barrel is the very first thing put into the frame.) I followed the instructions provided with the barrel which included tips on smoothing out the gun. And it did big time. My gun is pretty decent to shoot and the Compensator actually works and tames the muzzle flip a lot. Trigger pull is nice now in both SA and DA.

The CZ's on the other hand are real joy to shoot and they are really easy to run, totally ambidextrous and very easy to hit with.

I too made Mak rounds out of 9MM brass and had fun doing it.

All of these guns are viable CCW guns, and their costs are generally pretty affordable. J&G sales has a bunch of new Bulgarian Maks right now for $300 which is a good price. The Bulgarian Maks are some of the best ones out there, and the Bulgarian language does have a word for deburring.

Randy
I have Maks in the Russian, East German, and Bulgarian flavors. The East German is the best by far but all three are good guns. The German word for deburring is probably 10 syllables long.

[Petrol & Powder]

"The German word for deburring is probably 10 syllables long. "

Why would you suggest that German words are a bit long??:-)

Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften
The Guinness Book of World Records recognizes this cumbersome word as the longest German word in everyday use. It means "insurance companies providing legal protection."

[Fishman]

"The German word for deburring is probably 10 syllables long. "

Why would you suggest that German words are a bit long??:-)

Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften
The Guinness Book of World Records recognizes this cumbersome word as the longest German word in everyday use. It means "insurance companies providing legal protection."


That's pretty funny! Throw in some extra "r's" as well for good measure, even with the two found in "deburring".

[9.3X62AL]

Marshall--

The recoil spring on my East German Makarov is STALWART. I haven't tried 380 ACP-level loads in this pistol, and I wonder if or how well they would cycle. How do the milquetoast American-made 380 ACP rounds run in your Russian 380 Mak?

[Wayne Smith]

I too have read that the Russians captured both the round and the Makarov pistol design from Mauserwerke. Thus they are the product of German minds, not Russian.

Appropro of nothing else: From whom did the Russians copy the Stormovic aircraft??

[9.3X62AL]

I think it is a fair statement to say that the Walther PP system had deep influence on the Makarov pistol design. Walther was not--at the end of WWII--in a position to enforce patent law against the Soviets. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.