1911 ejection issue.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Today I fired my Colt series 70 45Auto for the first time since I bought it a year or two ago new. The gun functioned 100% reliable with factory 230gr fmj Remington ammo and 230gr cast reloads. Accuracy was also very good in my opinion with 2.5-3" groups at 25 yards from a rest.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/277edcc7926d24f29a71ae9a1f621720.jpg

My issue is this particular gun flings brass straight back into my face no matter how hard I focus on my grip. It also dents the mouths of the ejected brass (both factory and reloaded), and makes little brass nicks in the left hand rear portion of the ejection port.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/4da6c29d8ed0eeedb8463ebaace7f5de.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/260f8a92561d9d5c2675d978397a2154.jpg

What is wrong with my 1911? Ejector or extractor issue? How do I fix it, or had I better take it to a smith?

[DougGuy]

You can check the extractor first. It needs a radius on the bottom of the hook where the rim slides up under, it needs a slight angle cut on the edge of the hook, it needs to not touch the part of the case bevel that is clearanced for the extractor, and it needs just enough tension to hold a live round against the breech face when you push a round under the extractor with the slide taken off. It should go under there with finger pressure, and stay under there when you shake the slide. It's fine if it wiggles a little, as long as it doesn't fall out.

Most 5" Gov't models are fine with the stock ejector, as long as everything else is working like it should.

Google youtube 1911 extractor tuning and you should come up with several videos that will show you all the points I mentioned above and how to get your tension right. Then fire it again and check it. If you have a shock buff in there take it out as it can cause the slide stroke to be shortened.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You can check the extractor first. It needs a radius on the bottom of the hook where the rim slides up under, it needs a slight angle cut on the edge of the hook, it needs to not touch the part of the case bevel that is clearanced for the extractor, and it needs just enough tension to hold a live round against the breech face when you push a round under the extractor with the slide taken off. It should go under there with finger pressure, and stay under there when you shake the slide. It's fine if it wiggles a little, as long as it doesn't fall out.

Extractor tension seems fine. A live round does wiggle some but it stays in.

Extractor also seems to have the angle and radius as you described.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/2555f31e8e7ed9d3450a9b6197b84b4e.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/d14fe6751f6c0e680e52c30523e59ead.jpg

[Ford SD]

First check / tune extractor

if you then put a sized case in the chamber (no recoil spring- no mag) when you pull back the slide by hand -- brass should eject to the right

if it falls down the magwell hole you have a problem

[2ndAmendmentNut]

If you have a shock buff in there take it out as it can cause the slide stroke to be shortened.

Gun was new from the box, does Colt put buffers in their 1911s? If so where and what am I looking for?

[OS OK]

My Colt used to throw the cases anywhere and everywhere just random…gave me a fit. Dinged the edges also. A friend has the same Colt and it almost puts them in a 5 gal bucket at 3:00 to his right…now I'm doing backflips because I didn't understand. Went to You-Tube as mentioned above and found many good explanations about how it is a combination of extractor and ejector issues. Mine was ejector, need a slight filing and correct angle. Now she's fine.
Instead of trying to get it down here from suggestions…it for me…for me!…was better to search out the info on the Tube because I received an understanding of the process…it's compound.

[Virginia John]

Great response OS OK.

[Mk42gunner]

Looks to me like it is mostly an ejector issue, causing the brass to hit the lower edge of the ejection port denting the case mouth and then bouncing off the top of the slide.

I can see brass marks on the inside lower edge of the ejection port right under the word auto on the barrel.

The fix could be as simple as a slight alteration of the ejector face.

This is also one reason the IPSC shooters started lowering and flaring the ejection ports on 1911's.

One last thought. Make sure the ejector is solidly mounted to the frame. I have seen 1911's with a broken front leg for the ejector.

Robert

[35remington]

IPSC shooters were johnnie come latelies to the idea of lowering and
flaring ejection ports as bullseye shooters were doing it long before IPSC got started.

I would have someone who knows what they are doing look at the ejector. The dents in the brass really harm nothing and such cases reload easily with no issues.

[243winxb]

Ejection port not opened up like this?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

First check / tune extractor

if you then put a sized case in the chamber (no recoil spring- no mag) when you pull back the slide by hand -- brass should eject to the right

if it falls down the magwell hole you have a problem

I tried the above method and the brass ejects to the right as it should.

Here is a pictures of the ejector.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160608/0c589e58f14f45c3e1f73fc335da4887.jpg

[MtGun44]

The port needs to be lowered, look at any modern 1911 made in the last 5 yrs and copy
the port, and the little flare at the top corner.

This is the cause of the mashed brass.

http://www.ocgunsmith.com/lowered.jpg

Bill

[2ndAmendmentNut]

The port needs to be lowered, look at any modern 1911 made in the last 5 yrs and copy
the port, and the little flare at the top corner.

This is the cause of the mashed brass.

http://www.ocgunsmith.com/lowered.jpg

Bill

Well that is beyond my skill level with a Dremel. Can anyone recommend a good smith I could send the slide off to?

[243winxb]

https://www.gunsprings.com/cID1/mID1/dID1 Try some different springs, may make a difference. Stock No. 13111 - Extra Power Pak - Conventional
This pak contains 1 each of 16 Lb. factory standard spring and 1 each of 18.5, 20, 22, & 24 Lb extra power conventional recoil springs. 3 extra power firing pin springs included.

[JimB..]

Pls post a pic of the back of the slide with the gun assembled and fully cocked. Put the Dremel down, it won't solve your problem.

While you're doing that please also check if the extractor is clocking. The right hand edge of the firing pin stop is designed to prevent the extractor from rotating, if the fit is loose ejection will be inconsistent. If it's not clocking, then do an easy test of the ejector, try to wiggle it, if it's loose you'll need to have it restaked.

If you haven't found a problem yet then look carefully at tension and geometry of the extractor. Here is an old link, good info. http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm. In particular, is the extractor hook either too long or does it have a burr on the end. Most likely the extractor is holding the case for too long, so most likely the hook is too long or there is too much tension or the geometry is wrong.

I've played with 1911's for a few years, but am no expert. You may want to send a pm to user 1911tuner, he used to be a regular at 1911.org and he routinely checks in a carolinashootersclub, I don't know if he's a member here.

BTW, this issue may also resolve itself after your first 500-1000 rounds. Loose extractors cause problems, so companies seem to tend to err on the side of having a bit too much tension knowing that they loosen up in use.

[jcren]

I vote ejector/spring combo problem. The low tilted ejector is intended to kick brass more up than out to cbetter clear the port. The brass is hitting the ejector too hard causing the rough ejection. Assuming you are running factory/mild ammo, a firmer recoil spring will slow things down and prevent frame battering that you may also be getting. Stock is usually 16# and I run a 20# with reduced mainspring (lighter trigger) even with light target loads. Also, there are many ejector styles that serve different purposes, so if you are set on the load you are using, don't be afraid to try a different style.
169771
Also, changing ammo/load will dramatically effect how the total machine works together.

Btw, beautiful pistol, don't even think about dremel tooling that slide. The ejector maybe, but not the slide!

[Virginia John]

Just try one thing at a time. Start with the extractor and then the ejector and finally the spring.

[TenTea]

Pistol might simply be oversprung.
Many manufacturers use heavier recoil springs nowadays (18-20 lb.) to protect their frames from battering when shooting +P.
Standard Government Model spring weight for ball ammo is 16 lbs. while 14 lbs. has been the standard for target wadcutter loads nearly forever.
Make sure to run wet (well oiled) with a new 1911, too.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I vote ejector/spring combo problem. The low tilted ejector is intended to kick brass more up than out to cbetter clear the port. The brass is hitting the ejector too hard causing the rough ejection. Assuming you are running factory/mild ammo, a firmer recoil spring will slow things down and prevent frame battering that you may also be getting. Stock is usually 16# and I run a 20# with reduced mainspring (lighter trigger) even with light target loads. Also, there are many ejector styles that serve different purposes, so if you are set on the load you are using, don't be afraid to try a different style.
169771
Also, changing ammo/load will dramatically effect how the total machine works together.

Btw, beautiful pistol, don't even think about dremel tooling that slide. The ejector maybe, but not the slide!

Thank you gentlemen for all the replies. As another member said. One thing at a time. The Dremel was a joke, I wouldn't dare touch my Colt with one. I will order a spring kit and attempt to educate myself here and on YouTube.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Pls post a pic of the back of the slide with the gun assembled and fully cocked.


I'll try to get a picture up this evening but the little plate (firing pin stop?) at the rear of the slide has noticeable wiggle in it.

[Char-Gar]

My first question to the OP is whether or not there is in fact a problem. Here is my question;

Does the ejected brass actually hit you in the face or just flies by your face? If the brass is not actually striking your face, then you don't have a problem.

Many folks find brass ejected from autopistols and rifles to be distracting and disconcerting. This has never been a problem with me as I am concentrating on the sights and the target and seldom notice flying brass. I am left handed and we Southpaws get brass flying closer to our faces than folks that are right handed.

The dented case mouths are normal for your pistol. It does not have the lowered ejection port that was designed to prevent this. I have always considered the lowered ejection port to be an answer to a non-existent problem. Cases with dented mouths will iron out just fine in the sizing and expanding process of reloading.

If you are not getting smacked in the noggin, forget about it and go shooting. If you are indeed getting hit in the head with the brass, then that needs to be addressed.

Colt knows how to make these pistols and attempts to jack with the design will often lead to more problems then are cured. I have had over 50 of these pistols over the last half century and have four now. They have all been reliable as they came from the factory. Stick with a 16 lbs recoil spring and all other springs factory tension. When buying a pistol that is not factory fresh, I changed out the springs to make certain that I have factory tension in the handguns. Often times guns that have been through some other hands, have had springs replaced with non-factory tension.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My first question to the OP is whether or not there is in fact a problem. Here is my question;

Does the ejected brass actually hit you in the face or just flies by your face? If the brass is not actually striking your face, then you don't have a problem.

3 pieces hit me directly on the right lens of my glasses. A 4th smacked between the eyes and that took the fun out of shooting. I can live with dented brass and I would prefer to not alter the ejection port, but getting hit in the face is unacceptable.

[Char-Gar]

OK..thanks for clearing that up, you do have a problem. My Series 80 Colt GM has a different ejector. It is the one in the top right hand corner of the pic of ejectors a few posts up. Mine does not dent cases or throw cases into my face. If a spring change does not help, that is where I would look.

[35remington]

There is no need to throw large amounts of money at the problem like lowering and flaring ejection ports. 1911's do not need this alteration to keep brass out of your face. Keep the 20 lb springs out of the gun as this is needlessly and detrimentally overspringing it. If anyone wants to contest that I can enumerate an entire laundry list of problems in so doing.

The suggestion to up recoil spring strength while simultaneously reducing mainspring strength does nothing to bring about what is claimed for it, which is to reduce slide speed. A rather curiously counterproductive suggestion.

The original designer did not need those things to get the gun to run. And neither do you.

[jcren]

There is no need to throw large amounts of money at the problem like lowering and flaring ejection ports. 1911's do not need this alteration to keep brass out of your face. Keep the 20 lb springs out of the gun as this is needlessly and detrimentally overspringing it. If anyone wants to contest that I can enumerate an entire laundry list of problems in so doing.

The suggestion to up recoil spring strength while simultaneously reducing mainspring strength does nothing to bring about what is claimed for it, which is to reduce slide speed. A rather curiously counterproductive suggestion.

The original designer did not need those things to get the gun to run. And neither do you.

The main spring was reduced to lighten the trigger pull. As the main spring effects initial break over pressure (cocking the hammer) I went up on the recoil spring to compensate. And you are correct that if no other changes are made the 20# spring is too heavy for stock loads.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Do you need to change both the main and recoil spring? If you change one do you have to change the other? I ask because I know from working on a S&W revolvers you can't lighten one without lightening the other.

[Char-Gar]

Do you need to change both the main and recoil spring? If you change one do you have to change the other? I ask because I know from working on a S&W revolvers you can't lighten one without lightening the other.

You can change either spring without changing the other.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You can change either spring without changing the other.

Okay thank you. The stock trigger feels pretty good in my opinion and I would like to just leave well enough alone. I will order a few lighter recoil springs and try those first.

[35remington]

J, the net change of your alteration is the slide hits the frame just as hard as before. If you're trying to reduce slide speed this is how to have no effect at all. You did try to suggest slide speed was a problem, which it is not.

It is direction that's the problem. Leave the spring at 16 lbs if you replace the recoil spring.

A small radius stop is a much smarter way to alter slide speed than a 20 lb spring, which has downsides.

The OP needs to grasp the idea the ejection direction is the thing to address, rather than slide speed. Colt uses the correct springs at assembly and a new factory gun is what he has. Recoil springs are a blind alley as he's got the right one now.

[Virginia John]

Sounds like a good approach. Good luck and keep asking questions, we all learn from the answers.

[Mk42gunner]

My first question to the OP is whether or not there is in fact a problem. Here is my question;

Does the ejected brass actually hit you in the face or just flies by your face? If the brass is not actually striking your face, then you don't have a problem.

Many folks find brass ejected from autopistols and rifles to be distracting and disconcerting. This has never been a problem with me as I am concentrating on the sights and the target and seldom notice flying brass. I am left handed and we Southpaws get brass flying closer to our faces than folks that are right handed.

The dented case mouths are normal for your pistol. It does not have the lowered ejection port that was designed to prevent this. I have always considered the lowered ejection port to be an answer to a non-existent problem. Cases with dented mouths will iron out just fine in the sizing and expanding process of reloading.

If you are not getting smacked in the noggin, forget about it and go shooting. If you are indeed getting hit in the head with the brass, then that needs to be addressed.

Colt knows how to make these pistols and attempts to jack with the design will often lead to more problems then are cured. I have had over 50 of these pistols over the last half century and have four now. They have all been reliable as they came from the factory. Stick with a 16 lbs recoil spring and all other springs factory tension. When buying a pistol that is not factory fresh, I changed out the springs to make certain that I have factory tension in the handguns. Often times guns that have been through some other hands, have had springs replaced with non-factory tension.
That highlighted sentence brought back a bad memory from a range qual when I was a young GMG3.

Somehow one piece of TZZ brass ricocheted off the bill of my cap and lodged between the bridge of my nose and the "safety glasses" I had on. It was hot and disconcerting, but it didn't leave a blister.

I did make sure the bill of my cap was lower for the next few strings of fire, but no other brass came towards my face.

Robert

[gwpercle]

Well that is beyond my skill level with a Dremel. Can anyone recommend a good smith I could send the slide off to?

Clark Custom Guns
336 Shootout Lane
Princeton , Louisiana 71067
www.clarkcustomguns.com

They are the best with Colt 1911's

[35remington]

I have two Series 70's about the same vintage as yours and the newer of the two is about 2 years old as well. The ejector should have a backward slant to its nose. Look to see that this backward angle exists and that a burr or other imperfection is not present. Make sure the ejector is staked properly and is riding right next to the frame with no gaps.

The intent of this angle is so the case clears the high sided ejection port. And I'll repeat...the gun can and does work fine with the standard stock factory recoil spring and the unaltered, unflared, unlowered ejection port. All those millions of GI guns weren't wrong, and that's essentially what a Series 70 is, (actually the newish ones like yours are called Series 70 Reproductions) except with better sights and a different hammer spur than GI guns.

Here's a test for you....fire the gun with with one round, loaded in the magazine and chambered so it locks open on empty. Where does the last round fired eject? Usually the ejection pattern on the last round is different as the fired case does not bump over the next round in the magazine. Since the lift to the ejecting case is different, the last round in the gun often ejects to a different place.

[Forrest r]

I'll try to get a picture up this evening but the little plate (firing pin stop?) at the rear of the slide has noticeable wiggle in it.

The end result of that excessive wiggle is what's known as clocking of the extractor. If the extractor is held loosely in place by the firing pin stop it will move/turn. When it (it ='s extractor) moves/turns that changes the angle on the face of it and changes the tension of it also.

You need to:
Clean all the crud off of the slide face ans give the extractor hole and fp hole in the slide a good cleaning. This is your picture of your bolt face, hopefully you didn't test the extractor tension with all that crud on the slide face that is built up enough to aid in holding the bullet in place when testing.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/6ccc2657-46e4-4c01-b707-309fd41a44da_zpsxn3yox3d.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/6ccc2657-46e4-4c01-b707-309fd41a44da_zpsxn3yox3d.jpg.html)

Your ejector is setup to throw the brass high, the picture of your ejector. Note the extreme back angle on the ejector, the lower the brass hits on the ejector the high it will eject clearing the edge of the ejection port. Your ejector picture.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ejector_zpszxfcz1cl.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/ejector_zpszxfcz1cl.jpg.html)

High ejector contact ='s low thrown brass
Low ejector contact ='s high thrown brass

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/Ejectorf_zpsqffu5ljo.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/Ejectorf_zpsqffu5ljo.jpg.html)

Your ejector is angled/setup for the brass to be thrown high. You should not be getting dinged cases with that setup. Brass kicking straight back into your forehead is a direct result of the gun ejecting the cases too low. Hence the dinged cases.

Putting it all together:
You have a 1911 that has the ejector setup to throw the cases high. But your 1911 is ejecting the cases too low. You have a loose firing pin stop that is also there to hold the extractor in place and keep it from turning (clocking).

I'd be taking a hard look at the fp stop. Every 1911 I've ever owned including the 2 I own/shoot to this day, the fp stop is held tightly in place. Typically the fp stop is held in place by the fp and spring tension.

Back when we were building race guns we'd use heavy fp springs and fit oversized fp stops in them. Then we'd fit/tune the extractors to the slides after the fp stop was fitted.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thank you all for the replies. The firing pin stop has noticeable wiggle in it. This also seems to allow the extractor to wiggle. I have ordered an EGW oversized FPS from midway and will install once it arrives. (Thank you YouTube) Everything else on the gun is remaining stock and I will only change one thing at a time.

[gray wolf]

An oversized stop can be easy to fit or a bit of a task.
Go slow and remove slowly from both sides evenly.
Hold the stop in your fingers and draw the edge against the file with backward strokes,
don't go back and forth.
Keep using a marker pen so you have a visual of what is going on.

Once the F P S fits the cutout in the slide it should take a small amount of insertion pressure to allow it to go in place.
That may be all that's needed or maybe not ?
It still has to get past the cut out in the extractor in order to go fully in place, sometimes they do,
and sometimes they do not ( extractor cut a smidgen to tight.
NOW WHAT ?
You will probably change extractors more that a FPS, so I would call the extractor the sacrificial part.
I would slowly, with a fine file work the slot in the extractor for a good frictional fit.
If you go back and take more off the FPS to fit into the extractor slot you will have created a loose fitting F P S all over again.
Go slow a little is a lot.

A tight stop that fits the extractor well will stop clocking ( helps keep brass in one place )
Next I would make sure the extractor tension is correct, ( I truly think this IS your problem with being hit in the face )
I believe it is letting go of the case a tad to soon. If so it can be presenting the case to the ejector in the wrong position, giving the illusion that the ejector angle may be wrong when it's not.

Ejector angle can then be worked if it's needed, again go slow, a little is a lot and none of this should be done with a rotary instrument.

As for springs ? 16# recoil and 23# main spring, ( end of that story )

If you want to retard the backward movement of the slide a tad ( it does help with recoil )
Then start with a flat bottom oversized F P S
The bottom edge should be even with the dis-connector rail, be flat on the bottom with just a slight radius in the hammer contact area.

Don't try to do what you know you can't do properly and do one thing at a time.

[35remington]

Change one thing at a time. Since a stop has benefits to it and is cheap and does not alter the original part try that first. Cut a very small radius at first with a stone.

Since my gun is just like yours and dings brass yet does not throw it at my head, it's pretty evident it "should" be dinging brass. Most 1911's with unaltered ports in my collection including those owned by others do it. It is the norm not the exception. I shot in the basement NG Armory Lincol NE range and saw dozens of unaltered 1911A1s being fired. All dinged brass.

Again, fit the stop carefully. Mine don't even have a half thou of
clearance. No wiggle. Come out whether gun is cold or warm.

[35remington]

Also make sure you measure the width of the old stop and the new stop with a micrometer so you don't take off too much. It is a slow process when fitting. Take off only ten thousandths before retrying fit. Keep notes of how much you have taken off each side to keep the firing pin hole centered.

[243winxb]

Trade the colt for a Springfield 1911 Range Officer. If you follow everyones advice on how to fix it, its a complete rebuild. :guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:

[BD]

It looks to me like you have a loose stop that allows the extractor to clock a little, a cruddy bolt face that causes the extractor to clock and that stupid colt short back sloped ejector that has been throwing brass into faces for nearly 80 years now. Clean the gun, (and the extractor channel), fit a new stop, and if I owned it, I would fit a new ejector with enough nose to tune it. At the end of the day it would look much more like the other colt ejector in the image posted earlier. There is no way I would put up with a 1911 that dinged my brass, or put it anywhere but 3-6 feet to my right. To me it would be like driving a car with a constant miss and backfire. No need of it.

[BD]

FYI, this was the whole point of extended ejectors and lowered ejection ports. If you are not wearing full fatigues and a helmet, there is no need to put up with hot brass coming straight back up out of the pistol, ( the one exception being if you are loaning a gun to a buxom lass with a low cut dress, and you'd like to see the hot brass in the bra dance). The whole point of extending the ejector so it could be filed, and lowering the port, was so the brass could go out lower to the right and stay out of your face.

[35remington]

Before we decide that extensive modification of the type most don't find absolutely necessary is a must have, why don't we try getting him there a little more cheaply? The chances that very little is needed to fix his problem are quite good. I've never had dented cases have their life shortened. It simply doesn't matter to reloadability.

The ejector is shaped the way it is so it is consonant with his ejection port. Since the suggested fix of a firing pin stop harms nothing, is cheap, and has other benefits, and might just work, why not let him try it before making him spend a lot of money? Mine run with unlowered ports. His could, too.

[JimB..]

I wouldn't order an oversize fps.

I'd order two.

Jim

[BD]

If you're looking for the quick and dirty way, You can carefully peen the edges of the the right wing of the stop until it will keep the extractor in place, and file the "point" of the ejector a little bit flatter in tiny increments with a slight bevel to the right until you get the brass to fly right just enough to miss your face. The objective here is to get the ejector to hit the case just a little bit higher and farther left. That was how my great grandfather dealt with it in the oldest 1911 in the family. It worked for 80 years until my father started shooting it a little more regularly. However, if my intention was to put enough rounds down the pipe to get good at it, I'd start with a new stop and go from there. Brass in my face annoys me.

[35remington]

A good thing to do is to modify something you don't have to replace if you screw up. That's what's being attempted first, which is a good idea. There's no guarantee that it will work, but it may alter things enough to help. Given the ejector appears correct for the shape of his ejection port, it's worth a try and is a "no harm" option.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

A good thing to do is to modify something you don't have to replace if you screw up. That's what's being attempted first, which is a good idea. There's no guarantee that it will work, but it may alter things enough to help. Given the ejector appears correct for the shape of his ejection port, it's worth a try and is a "no harm" option.

I also opted to order an EGW extractor. I figure seeing as the extractor and FPS are likely my problem. I can remove the originals and monkey around with the replacements. Worst case scenario is I put the originals back in. The gun functions, it's just the ejection pattern is annoying/painful.

[Bullwolf]

Bit late to the thread, but below is an excellent picture showing extractor clocking from a loose FPS. (Firing Pin Stop)

I've seen this image quite a few times over on the 1911 Forums, and am re-posting it here for education purposes.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/cindynles/trophy%20match/trophymatchclock_Page_1_zpsad6e554e.jpg

Submitted for those who require a picture example to better understand things visually.

For those not that familiar with the 1911... The rounded end of the extractor (with the red arrow on it) is obviously turning or "clocking" around in the extractor tunnel due to the loose fitting FPS in the image above.

Extractor clocking can result in erratic or variable extractor tension on cases. Since the 1911 extractor is tuned via tension, clocking of the extractor often leads to problems with case ejection.

Some common symptoms of extractor clocking are: Random case ejection patterns, crushed case mouths, and even cases being flung at your face.

Fitting an oversize firing pin stop snugly will help keep the extractor from clocking around in the extractor tunnel, providing more consistent ejection behavior.



- Bullwolf

[ole 5 hole group]

I also opted to order an EGW extractor. I figure seeing as the extractor and FPS are likely my problem. I can remove the originals and monkey around with the replacements. Worst case scenario is I put the originals back in. The gun functions, it's just the ejection pattern is annoying/painful.

Well, as long as you're ordering extra parts you could look into the possibility of purchasing an EGW heavy duty slide stop and the HD higher mag catch.;) Once you get to looking at all the 1911 goodies EGW offers - you can spend money in a hurry.

Here's how a EGW oversized FPS looks like after putting a slight bevel to it.169941169942169943

[35remington]

Keep in mind, as you read more about the stop….to get the slide braking effects from the small radius in full effect…..the stop may need to be slanted so the hammer, when at rest, contacts the stop evenly all along the face of the hammer. If it contacts the stop high and not low the effect of the small radius is mostly lost.

If the hammer leaves a mark above the firing pin hole and nowhere else….it's contacting the stop high.

[JimB..]

If it contacts the stop high and not low the effect of the small radius is mostly lost.


What effect of the small radius on the FPS is lost and why?

Also, if there is a reason to do so why not take the easy path and reshape the hammer face which is likely out of spec if this is happening?

[35remington]

If it contacts the stop high the stop's leverage over the slide is lost and it does not serve to brake the slide as well as if contact was full length.

Rule is to modify the cheap part. That would be the stop by far.

[jcren]

The closer the lower edge of the firing pin stop is to square, the more energy it takes to start the slide moving back, and cocking the hammer. A deeper radius acts as a ramp to increase leaverage and reduce energy required to cock hammer.

[35remington]

Not my point.

The slide punches the hammer to get it to move. If the hammer contacts the stop high and not low (the usual condition unless the stop is filed to match the resting angle of the hammer) the slide works on the top of the hammer first and the radius does not come into play. The end of the hammer gets driven rather than the part adjacent to the radius on the slide stop. Some of the braking effect of a small radius is lost, if not most of it.

SOP is to modify the cheap easily replaced part. This is by far the stop.

Racking the slide by hand does not mimic how the slide sets the hammer in motion and gives a false impression of function.

[JimB..]

Not my point.

The slide punches the hammer to get it to move. If the hammer contacts the stop high and not low (the usual condition unless the stop is filed to match the resting angle of the hammer) the slide works on the top of the hammer first and the radius does not come into play. The end of the hammer gets driven rather than the part adjacent to the radius on the slide stop. Some of the braking effect of a small radius is lost, if not most of it.

SOP is to modify the cheap easily replaced part. This is by far the stop.

Racking the slide by hand does not mimic how the slide sets the hammer in motion and gives a false impression of function.

Please pardon my insertion of an example that I think will make your point more clear. Correct me if I've misunderstood.

Think of a freight train with many cars attached. The engineer does not start the train by moving forward, he starts by reversing to compress the couplings on the cars, so when he starts going forward the engine just needs to move itself for the first few inches, then it just needs to move itself and the first car, and so on. By doing this the engine only needs to overcome the inertia of one car at a time.

With the 1911 slide, if the hammer is initially in contact only above the firing pin, then the only resistance to the slide for the first bit is the weight of the mainspring, but remember that the contact is at the end of the hammer so the slide has extra leverage against the spring. If the parts are mated so the FPS is touching low on the hammer then the slide must overcome the mainspring from the start and it doesn't have the extra leverage. As a result I think unlocking is slightly delayed. Only you can decide if that provides a benefit for you, I'm not excited about it, but others love it.

[35remington]

That's how it works.....IF the stop is slanted to match the hammer's slant. If not....not so much.

I'm not describing the whole process, just the need for the stop to match the hammer to make it work as intended in delaying the slide.

Implicit in the full realization of the effect of the stop is the slide is moved suddenly backward by the slam of ignition.....it is not set into motion gradually like when pulling it with your hand. That will give the misleading impression the untapered stop is working correctly and with full effect to attenuate slide motion when it likely is not.

[Char-Gar]

I have found this thread quite interesting and it caused me to pick up my Norinco 1911A1 and look at the parts in question. This pistol is always within easy reach in my home. When I got the pistol about 10 years ago, I put on better sights, changed out all the springs and installed a Colt barrel and bushing. Of course mesquite grips were added. The bushing is a tight fit to the slide and requires a bushing wrench to remove it. Two years ago, I installed a Colt longer trigger. Other than these few things it is a stock stock Chicom 45 automatic.

This pistol have proved to be accurate and 100% reliable. It does not dent ejected brass and puts all the cases where they are supposed to be, i.e. not in my face. It is in all regards a worthy 45 auto. Being so worthy, I have never paid much attention to the various parts and I field strip it for cleaning. I have put many thousands of round through it and it is still in fine shape in and out.

Here is a pic of the ejector, which looks much like the one on the OP pistol. The Firing Pin Stop has a healthy rounded lower edge and hold the extractor firmly in place. The Chinese made this one right. Quite a bargain for the $280.00 it cost me.

[floydboy]

To start with I am no gunsmith but I do love tinkering with my own guns. Nothing too serious but I do have some good stones and files. I also believe very strongly in getting the best shop manuals you can find. Notice I didn't say afford but find. Making a mistake on a gun will cost way more than the cost of a good manual. You will be surprised at what you can do with the right advise and a few pictures.

For the 1911 Jerry Kanhusen's manuals are a must have. There is way more in them than you will ever want to attempt. My first 1911 was a Springfield Champion. Brass looked just like yours and went every where. Like you hit me in the head also. The above advice is all good. Your extractor is the main cause of your problem. It won't take much to fix it but you will need some pics as to where to file and polish. Google how to tune a 1911 extractor and see what that gets you. I did end up lowering my ejection port the usual amount. Did it with a hand file. I never use a dremel. Took a few winter evenings but a did a nice job you can't see. I was afraid to flare the port found that wasn't necessary anyway. I may attempt it some time in the future if I ever get bored. I think I ended up doing a very small amount of shaping the ejector at the end of the project but can't remember for sure.

The end result is my brass may not always end up in a 5 gal bucket but it always goes to the right and within a 3 foot circle. No dings or bent brass and no more head shots.

Good luck.....Floyd

[gray wolf]

Not to be confrontational, but those to stops definitely look different.

The one in the gun looks like a flat bottom with a slight bevel, like we are talking about.

The one out of the gun looks like the standard one used today.

I believe Mr. Browning rounded the latter stop cause the troops on horse back carried empty chamber
and the pistol was to hard to rack while on Horse-back


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170209&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1465920064 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170210&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1465920101

[35remington]

Mr Browning did not round the stop. The Army did. His original thru 1924 had the smaller radius.

Chargar's stops do look different. The one in the pistol is what we are striving for.

[35remington]

When the stop is properly slanted there will be contact marks below the firing pin hole, not just above.

[ole 5 hole group]

Whatever tinkering one does just might depend upon how he uses that ole 1911. For me, I some times feel the need to have higher pressure rounds in my 1911 than the "normal" commercial +P loads and I would like my 1911 to last at least until someone uses it in the 22nd century.;) I have a couple Baer PII's, which shouldn't need any fiddling' but sometimes one just can't help themselves.

I've felt it to be a good idea to fit the oversized EGW FPS with a slight radius and replace the original mag catch with a higher mag catch for peace of mind when using my gold dot loads. Never had a problem with the ole original equipment but I just felt the urge to make the Baer's better.;) I also run with a buffer - always have and never had one ever get chewed up like some folks claim or to ever cause any problem what-so-ever.

With a well set-up 1911 to begin with - one can try and "tighten" it up a bit with a slightly larger slide stop. The pin on my stops run right at 0.1985 to 0.1995, so I went with a 0.200000 - well, with the original stop the slide was pretty smooth, especially when you cocked back the hammer prior to racking the slide. Installing the 0.2" stop, it took either gorilla strength or a leather mallet to get that slide out of battery. I shot it to see what, if any, improvement I made and all I know is it might have grouped just a tad tighter at 50 yards but I was having an exceptional day on the bags that day, so maybe that was the reason. I could see where I needed to polish things up a bit but I decided to just re-install the original stop, as opposed to fitting that stop. Sometimes a person just doesn't need to put forth a lot of effort in an attempt to improve perfection.;)

Did the OP ever solve his ejection issue??

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Did the OP ever solve his ejection issue??

I have the parts, just need a weekend to install them.

[gray wolf]

Mr Browning did not round the stop. The Army did. His original thru 1924 had the smaller radius.


Thank you for the correction,being half right is like being half wrong.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

For the 1911 Jerry Kanhusen's manuals are a must have.

I have his manual on S&W revolvers which is excellent. Need to acquire Vol. 1&2 on the 1911. Maybe I'll get lucky this Father's Day...

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Well I had to file and file and then file a little more, but I went slow and fit the new FPS to my 1911. The FPS is the only part I have replaced. Brass still ejects with a slight ding in it, but it goes high and to my right. I still need to get the FPS to match the face of the hammer, but ejection is now consistent and not in my face.

[35remington]

The ding is of no real importance

[Char-Gar]

Well I had to file and file and then file a little more, but I went slow and fit the new FPS to my 1911. The FPS is the only part I have replaced. Brass still ejects with a slight ding in it, but it goes high and to my right. I still need to get the FPS to match the face of the hammer, but ejection is now consistent and not in my face.

The slight dent is of no significance. If you are not getting hit in the head anymore and you are otherwise happy, I would just go with what I had and call it good. Just saying....

[Char-Gar]

Not to be confrontational, but those to stops definitely look different.

The one in the gun looks like a flat bottom with a slight bevel, like we are talking about.

The one out of the gun looks like the standard one used today.

I believe Mr. Browning rounded the latter stop cause the troops on horse back carried empty chamber
and the pistol was to hard to rack while on Horse-back


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170209&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1465920064 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170210&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1465920101
In is the same stop in the pics, one in the pistol and one out of the pistol. Just different lighting.

[gray wolf]

If you say they are the same then so be it.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170210&d=1465920101

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170209&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1465920064