BP Hunting Load for the .50-70 Remington RB ??

[texasnative46]

Friends,

Well, I did it again. - Bought a NY Militia 3-band musket, with 34.5" barrel, this morning in worn but very serviceable condition & with a good bore, with which I also plan to hunt wild boar & perhaps other big/tough game.

Inasmuch as our great members have helped me with some outstanding advice on loads for the 11.7x56mm Danish rifle, I'm now asking about the "pet" .50-70 "RB-safe" loads of our members.
I especially would like advice on a HB bullet of about 450-500 grains for the musket.

THANKS, satx

[sharpsguy]

Get a hollow based Lee 450 grain bullet mold and some 2f Old Eynsford powder. Load 65 grains of powder and set it off with a standard large rifle primer of your choice. It will handle anything you want to hunt with it.

[Mark Daiute]

I am having great, great fun with the Lee 450 grain mold over 60 grains of WC872 touched off with magnum primers in my model 1866 trapodoor. It's cheap and at 100 yards the battle sight is dead on. See my post elsewhere for photos I am looking at NY rolling block as well. It does not have the cleaning rod, is in good shape with a good bore but they want 850 IIRC. Fair price?


Mark

[texasnative46]

sharpsguy,

INTERESTING.
(I'd been told by another person, who is "supposed to be an expert", who said to "go HEAVY" & "at least 500 grains of soft lead" on a bullet.)

RUSSIAN BOAR "take considerable killing".
(The private estate in Moldova, where I've been invited to hunt, has MANY large/aggressive boar & that "need thinning out".)

THANKS, satx

[texasnative46]

Mark Daiute,

Frankly, I don't know what "a fair price" for a NY Militia musket is. = Prices on the "worldwideweird" are "all over the place". - I thought that the 400.oo that I paid was reasonable for a "hunting rifle".

Over the last 2 years or so, I've seen rolling block rifles "offered for sale" from <100.oo (for a ROUGH-looking rifle, that was OBVIOUSLY "needs repairs"/"remodeled"/"refinished".) to well over 1000 -1500.oo for a "near mint" example "in excellent condition".
(This 3-band musket likely has been refinished at some time or the other in the last 140+ years. - Inasmuch as I'm a hunter, rather than a collector, I couldn't care less about "collectability". = I was simply looking for a "tight action" & a good or better bore.)

Note: I'm going to a have a friend in San Antonio, who is a long-time collector of BP rifles look at the rifle next week & IF it has been "refinished", I may well refinish the rifle again.= It has numerous dents in the wood, that can be "steamed out", though I can see no cracks in the wood.
(One of my hobbies is refinishing/restoring furniture & I can make the rifle look much more presentable with some time & RLO/stain/wax.)

yours, satx

[texasnative46]

sharpsguy; Mark Daiute,

Do either of you (OR another member) have the Lee "inventory number" for the 450 grain HB mold??

Looked on the Lee site & found ZILCH.

yours, satx

[sharpsguy]

Call Lee direct, and the lady that answers the phone will take your order and fix you up. I have done that several times with unlisted sizing dies, and they have always been able to make and ship what I need.

[texasnative46]

sharpsguy,

THANK YOU.

yours, satx

[Mark Daiute]

sharpsguy; Mark Daiute,

Do either of you (OR another member) have the Lee "inventory number" for the 450 grain HB mold??

Looked on the Lee site & found ZILCH.

yours, satx

If they make a 450 grain hb mold for the 50-70 let me know. I have their HB 405 grain mold for the 45-70 and did not know they made one for the 50 caliber. Maybe there isn't one?

[Washington1331]

I've always had good luck with the Lee 515450 mold and my 50/70 rifles. My pet load is 70 grains of 1F Goex black powder, magnum rifle primer, waxpaper wad, 1/8" lube cookie, .060 fiber wad. I compress the load using the expander die to the point where the top shoulder of the boolit sits even with the brass. I don't size the boolits, just pan lube them with homemade emmerts lube. I've crono'd this load at about 1250 fps on a consistent basis. I've gotten about 3 inch groups at 100 yards. This is mainly due to my eyesight (lots of computer work) and the crude sights on the NYSM rolling block.

I've been looking for a collet crimp die so I can put a decent crimp on the brass to help with ignition without sizing down the boolit, but I haven't had any luck so far. The load still works good with single shot rifles.

Is the lube cookie necessary? Not really for hunting purposes, I've found in my range testing that I normally foul out at around 10 rounds if I don't use it.

I've also tried the NOE 515HB. The base pins that form the hollow bases are a real pain to keep hot enough to prevent malformed skirts. I've found that the stream rate of my bottom pour furnace is just too slow to fill the mold completely before the metal starts to solidify. I've read on this forum that many have found using a blow torch to heat the pins helps, but I've found that ladle casting and drowning the cavities quickly give me a good product as well.

Hope that helps.

[texasnative46]

Mark Daiute,

I'm far from sure that it was a Lee product but I saw a HB aluminum bullet-mold for sale marked for.50-90 at a gun-show several months ago.

yours, satx

[StrawHat]

Lee does not make a hollow base 50 caliber mold. They do make one for the 45 caliber boolit. NOE makes a good mold for a HB 50 caliber boolit, a hollow base version of the Lyman 515141. Cast with 40/1 and a hot plate to keep the mold warm, I get decent boolits fast. I also have the Lee 50 caliber flat base, the 515141 and a 250 grain, full wadcutter from SAECO. All of them give good hunting boolits and I use them with Old Eynesford 2F in my 1866. Do I like the 50-70? The more I use it the less I see the need for the 45-70.

Kevin

[Ed in North Texas]

Lyman 515141, 70 grains 1f or 2f KIK, homemade lube through a Lyman 45 w/ .515 die, and .030 card wad. Shoots better than my old eyes can hold. Somewhere on Cast Boolits, in either a NYSM RB or a .50-70 thread (both??), I posted a picture of a group from this combination in my better condition NYSM.

[Yellowhouse]

Accurate Molds will make about anything you want and they are fast. I just ordered the 50-470T which is a tapered 50 cal paper patch design and got it in less than two weeks. He has many Lyman originals in the catalog but like I said he'll make anything within reason. This is my second Accurate mold, the other being a 38-55, and the quality is top notch!!!

[texasnative46]

StrawHat,

You are CORRECT. = They don't make a .50 caliber HB mold, ANY MORE!!
(Talked to one of their factory techs this PM & was told that, - - - - we never made a dime profit off the ones that we once made & we won't make any more. EVER.")

Guessing that I'm "out of luck", huh??

Fwiw, I own the .45-70 HB mold & LIKE IT. Nonetheless, I suspect that I'll order a Lyman 515141 & hope that I like it as well as I do the .45 caliber HB.

yours, satx

[StrawHat]

...StrawHat, ... Guessing that I'm "out of luck", huh??... Fwiw, I own the .45-70 HB mold & LIKE IT. Nonetheless, I suspect that I'll order a Lyman 515141 & hope that I like it as well as I do the .45 caliber HB.

yours, satx...

Not necessarily, NOE makes a copy of the 515141 with a hollow base. I like mine.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=44_130

Currently out of stock, but a post in the boolit swapping section might get you some to try.

Kevin

[texasnative46]

To ALL:

IF anyone reading this thread has a suitable HB .50-cal bullet mold that is surplus to your needs & want to sell it OR you have some suitable HB bullets for sale, PLEASE send me an email to: texasnative46@gmail.com

THANKS, tex

[varsity07840]

To ALL:

IF anyone reading this thread has a suitable HB .50-cal bullet mold that is surplus to your needs & want to sell it OR you have some suitable HB bullets for sale, PLEASE send me an email to: texasnative46@gmail.com

THANKS, tex
IMHO, you'd be well served by the Lee .515 450 gr Government. It'll cast at around .517. Slugging your bore will tell you if you should shoot it as cast or sized. I've used it in a NY Roller, a '68 TD and a converted '63 3 groove Sharps carbine with excellent results. Mike Venturino used the similar Lyman 515141 to take a buffalo at 141 yards and complete broadside pass through.

[John in PA]

Why do you want a hollow base mold? Is the bore on your RB grossly oversize? If so, use a solid base of the correct diameter. There should be no need for a hollow base in the .50-70. And, if driven hard, they tend to "shuttle-cock " at the muzzle, decreasing accuracy.
I shot a feral pig once at about 35 yards with a .50-70 many years ago. Bullet whistled right through the chest, pig fell over immediately and that was it.

Ditto's on the Lyman 515141, cast either dead soft or 1:40. NO antimony (i.e. wheelweights) You'll get NO expansion if there's antimony in the alloy. Fill case with 2Fg black, enough to get maybe .2" compression. Soft lube, 50/50 beeswax/olive oil works well, or SPG if you want a commercial lube. Milk carton card wad over powder if the loads are going to sit around for a long time to prevent lube migration into the powder.

I have used 27 gr IMR4198. Also 25.0gr and 26.5gr SR4759 . Both with 420-450 grain bullets. Here's a page of data from the 3rd edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. All the smokeless loads need a tuft of Dacron polyester fiberfill to keep powder on the primer. And, from experience, 3031 in these light loads gives lousy ignition, sometimes leaving large clumps of partly fused powder grains in the bore instead of burning cleanly. If you can find it, the 4759 works best. Unique (11-14 grains) or Blue Dot (14-18 grains)second and third best.

Might need to click the magnifier to read the page after clicking the link.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jwellsgnr/media/50-70%20data%20037_zpsksnvetxn.jpg.html


(http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jwellsgnr/media/50-70%20data%20037_zpsksnvetxn.jpg.html)

[texasnative46]

varsity07840; John in PA,

THANKS for your comments.

I'm a "newcomer" to BP cartridge reloading, though I've done reloading with smokeless in modern ammo for 4 decades.

Several local people, whom I know to be long-time reloaders, recommended a HB mold of 450-500 grains for my Remington NYS Naval Militia 3-band rifled musket, inasmuch as the bores of these 140YO muskets vary in size quite a bit.

One said, "Tex, you'll save considerable money on buying molds if you buy a HB mold that will serve for several of these RB military rifles. Knowing you, the one that you bought won't be the last one that you buy."
(He does KNOW that I tend to buy multiples of things that I'm interested in. = I tend to buy another similar firearm IF/WHEN that I find a nicer example & then keep/not keep the lesser example.)

Also, I've had good success with the .45-70 HB mold that I already own to load Danish 11.7x56mm.

yours, tex

[John in PA]

Here's a drawing from the Frankford Arsenal of the original cartridge for the 1868 Springfield. Note that the bullet has three deep square lube grooves, and overall design is almost a duplicate of the Lyman 515141. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/jwellsgnr/50-70%20data2%20038_zpsbqzpyn1h.jpg

[texasnative46]

John in PA,,

THANK YOU.

yours, tex

[Ed in North Texas]

I have one of those FA Benet inside primed .50-70 cartridges. Forget off the top of my head the last year they produced them, 1881 seems to stick in my head.

Good reason for the 515141 and the FA boolits to be very similar, the 515141 was designed to at least very near duplicate the earlier FA boolit.

[texasnative46]

Ed in North TX,

THANKS for your input.

yours, tex
USAMPC, Retired

[John Boy]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lyman-Ideal-Mold-515141-/142027697377?hash=item211182ace1:g:3m4AAOSwM4xXYyK z

[texasnative46]

John Boy,

THANKS.

yours, tex

[texasnative46]

To ALL,

This site has some truly GREAT & HELPFUL members. = I'm quite IMPRESSED with the help that I've received as a "newcomer" to BPCR & loads.

THANKS.

yours, tex