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View Full Version : Cast in the Fusil Automatique Leger- FN FAL



richbug
05-16-2008, 09:25 AM
I recently embarked on an attempt to shoot cast bullets in one of my FAL's as a cost saving measure.

My requirements of the load:

1. 4 MOA or less
2. cycle the action on the same gas setting that I use for jacketed
3. have enough power to reach out and touch something, IE knock over a heavy steel target at 200 yards plus
4. feed from the magazine


I picked the Lee 200 grain bullet, this will allow for lower velocity to keep from leading, while having enough mass to hit with authority at longer ranges. Also it has a shape which will feed from the magazine with little deformation.

The alloy I used was 1 part linotype to 2 parts 8BHN recovered range lead. Air dropped, BHN about 15. Hornady gas checks, bullet sized to .309", lubed with white label BAC lube. Bullets were visibly inspected, but not weighed.

I selected H4831 to start with, this might seem like an inappropriate powder for 308, but its slow burn rate gives a more gradual acceleration of the bullet(no stripped rifling), and adequate port pressure to cycle the rifle on its regular gas setting. All charges were thrown through a Lee measure, only the first couple were weighed on a scale, no trickling here(I'd guess I was withing .1 gr plus or minus on all).

I varied seating depth some, at full mag length it required the POGO to get a live round back out of the chamber. I settled on a length that just started to engrave the rifling on the bullet.

Brass was some pulled down TW-65 military brass with the original primers in place.

Test rifle: Dans grade 3 IMBEL kit, on a PAC Imbel receiver that I built myself. This rifle has shown uncanny accuracy with everything run through it. 2 MOA or better on 70's Indian. Iron sights.

All tests fired form magazine, sand bag under forearm, no rear rest, Iron sights, shooter had been flashed by an arc welder a few hours earlier, vision a little fuzzy. All groups 10 shots or more. All fired pretty rapidly, under 1 minute for 10 shots. I used a 6:00 hold on a 2" black square for center hits.

35 grains Cycled the rifle, but wouldn't lock back on an empty mag, lots of unburned powder in the bore.
- not suitable, no accuracy test done

36 grains, Cycled rifle locked back most of the time, lots of unburned powder,
-not suitable, no accuracy test done.

37, cycle properly, Lock back on empty, some unburned powder, brass all went about 5 feet
Accuracy 3.5" at 50 yards

38 grains Ran fine, little unburned powder, brass went 6 feet,
Accuracy 3.25" at 50 yards

39 grains Ran fine, virtually no unburned powder, Brass about 8 feet
Accuracy 1.54" at 50 yards "MONEY LOAD"

40 grains Ran fine, No unburned powder, Brass about 10 feet.
Accuracy 2.3" at 50, includes a couple flyers otherwise, 1.5"

41 grains, Ran fine, brass 12 feet, No unburned powder, SMOKEY(just a little too fast). Accuracy 2.5" at 50, 5 into under 1"


The brass was not damaged by the rifle in any way. None of the primers show any pressure.


I fired 25 rounds of the 39 grain load at the 8" 200 yard gong, all were hits using a slightly above center hold. Based on the return time from the sound of the hits I would estimate 2000-2100 FPS with this load.


Conclusion, While not the accuracy of my 6.7 cent Indian from a few years back I am pleased with the 39 and 40 grain loads(sadly even with free lead this costs more too). Unfortunately I used all my TW brass and primers in the test, so I can't repeat it exactly. I plan to dedicate a batch of LC match brass to this quest, and play with different primers. I would expect similar results from any other extruded powders in the same burn rate, 3100, Data 86, IMR4831, RE19 etc

I expect I could do better by weighing my bullets and charges. A rear rest would probably help.

Primer 1.8 cents, Gas check 1.8 cents, 8.5 cents for propellant. Still pretty cheap.

Larry Gibson
05-16-2008, 10:50 AM
"Based on the return time from the sound of the hits I would estimate 2000-2100 FPS with this load."

I would suggest you chronograph this load. I have shot that bullet out of a 27.6" barrel with 4831 and got nowhere near that velocity. What is the barrel length of your rifle? I'd suggest you try 26-30 gr of 4895. Works much better. However if your load works for you and you apparently are happy with it then what the heck, that's ok:-)

Larry Gibson

richbug
05-16-2008, 10:57 AM
21" barrel


4895 doesn't make enough gas till you get well past 35 grains, which is making too much chamber pressure.

Have you shot the 26-30 grains of 4895 out of an autoloader?

My chronograph had an unfortunate accident.


"Based on the return time from the sound of the hits I would estimate 2000-2100 FPS with this load."

I would suggest you chronograph this load. I have shot that bullet out of a 27.6" barrel with 4831 and got nowhere near that velocity. What is the barrel length of your rifle? I'd suggest you try 26-30 gr of 4895. Works much better. However if your load works for you and you apparently are happy with it then what the heck, that's ok:-)

Larry Gibson

scrapcan
05-16-2008, 01:46 PM
Richbug,

Was it an unfortunate accident or taking care of the lying piece of equipment. Just kidding I have seen the unfortunate accident and the sick feeling of picking up the pieces.

I had wondered about cast in the FAL. I have wanted to add one to the stable but have not found one that absolutely had to come to a new home. Someday soon I hope.

scb
05-18-2008, 12:45 PM
richbug,
Did you have any problems with the magazines? I've loaded some 311466's for my stg58 and wasn't able to strip them from the magazine by hand without scraping ALOT of lead off the side of the boolit. I can't believe it'll be any better when the bolt strips them out. I opened one magazine up with a dremel tool it seems to be better. Was wondering if you had run into the same thing and had any fixes. Thanks, Steve

Larry Gibson
05-18-2008, 02:33 PM
Your FAL doesn't have the gas adjustment up onthe front of the gas cylinder?

Larry Gibson

NSP64
05-18-2008, 03:07 PM
4895 cycles my yugo sks fine with 155-180 gr boolits. 22 gr gets me 2250fps chronoed with the 155gr Lee GC boolit. The faster powders(2400/4227) wont cycle action.

richbug
05-18-2008, 06:29 PM
Your FAL doesn't have the gas adjustment up onthe front of the gas cylinder?

Larry Gibson


It does, as do all FAL's. I wanted to leave it alone in case I went back to shooting the jacketed ammo through it.

richbug
05-18-2008, 06:33 PM
richbug,
Did you have any problems with the magazines? I've loaded some 311466's for my stg58 and wasn't able to strip them from the magazine by hand without scraping ALOT of lead off the side of the boolit. I can't believe it'll be any better when the bolt strips them out. I opened one magazine up with a dremel tool it seems to be better. Was wondering if you had run into the same thing and had any fixes. Thanks, Steve


It did scratch the bullet a bit, but didn't actually remove any lead. My mags are all relatively new Argentine or Israeli with nicely shaped feed lips. FAL mags tend to get their lips mashed in the front somewhat over time, it doesn't seem to hamper jacketed bullets, but can see where smashed feed lips would be a problem with cast.