How to not bend a cartridge with Lee collet crimper

[BrentD]

I am fairly cluesless when it comes loading modern bottleneck cartridges like this, so I don't know what is probably pretty obviously wrong. In the photo below, you can see that this .30-06 cartridge, with a 311284 cast bullet, is bent seriously to the left a the base of the shoulder. The bending happens in a Lee collet crimping die. this happens about once every 10 cartridges or so. The bullet is lubed with a LLA and JLFW mixture. The cartridge was fully inserted into the shell holder when this happened. What causes this, and how do I stop it?

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Rock%20Island%201903/Bent%2030-06%20cartridge.jpg

[243winxb]

Lee help- http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/125/60/rifle-factory-crimp-die-adjustment This would normally happen when seating. Looks like a very hard crimp. Maybe try turning the crimp die out a little?? Has brass been trimmed to length?

[VHoward]

Only thing I could think of is the crimping die is adjusted wrong.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Seat and crimp in separate steps, set the die to just seat the bullets then back the seating stem out and crimp with the seating stem not making contact. Looks you are crimping way too much posibly due to every 10th round being longer so you may check your case length and trim them to the same.

[VHoward]

I was under the impression he was using one of these. http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/factory-crimp-die/ If he had it adjusted too low, then the collet would over crimp the mouth and hold on while he tried to shove the shell in even further doing what you see in the picture. It also looks like the bullet was not seated in all the way. Maybe he was using the crimping feature of his seating die.

[MT Chambers]

Why not crimp with your seating die?

[BrentD]

Yes, I was using the factory crimp die and putting on a pretty strong crimp, per the recommendation of Mike Venturino. However, I don't really know what a "strong crimp" is and could easily be over doing it. But why doesn't it do it to all the cases?

The brass are not trimmed, but I don't see where that would have an effect on this type of crimp die.

I'm not crimping with the seating die because - well because. I'm not sure of this, but I was under the impression that this collet crimper was somehow better. I'll back it off a bit next time and see what happens.

Thanks for the comments.

Oh yes, just to be clear, seating the bullet is done in the seating die, separately from the crimping operation.

[243winxb]

I never crimped cast rifles in 30 caliber. Did use a Lyman M die to expand the case mouth.

[trails4u]

I'm thinking your crimp die may be set too deep, as it appears that it's actually crushing the shoulder of the case a bit. Not sure how it could happen otherwise... ?? That....or the crimp is WAY tight, and actually gripping the neck so tight that it's allowing the press to continue to move the case upward, thus crushing the shoulder. Is this possible?? I don't know...just thinking out loud here.

[PaulG67]

The lip of the case neck is being caught before it enters the crimp area because the crimping action of the collet is being activated too soon thus pushing on the neck and bending the case. Only two solutions I can think of would be grinding the top of the shell holder to reduce its height or grinding on the bottom of the collet to reduce its length. Either will delay the crimping action and allow the neck to enter the crimp area. Oh make that three one could also use longer cases.

[BK7saum]

Just back the factory crimp die out a quarter to a half turn or so and check again

[EDG]

Watch out on those dies. Some times the inner crimping sleeve can jam in the up and closed position. Then when you insert a round the edge of the case hits the crimp tabs of the closed sleeve.

[flashhole]

I would do a few things:

Anneal the brass. It will re-establish any lost ductility from work hardening when it was fired.

Measure the ID of the case neck after the brass has been FL sized and compare it to the OD of the bullet. This will be a measure of neck tension. You want ~.002" difference. The cast bullet may be a bit larger than the .308 inches called for and that will make it harder to seat.

Flare the case neck opening with a Lee Universal Expander Die to better facilitate bullet seating. I recommend not crimping, especially if my cast bullet diameter measures larger than .308", but if I wanted to crimp it I would get the Expander Die and put a slight flare on the neck before seating the bullet. It does not take much.

I also do not recommend the FCD. If I have to crimp, I much prefer a Taper Crimp Die on rifle cartridges, even the 45-70.

[MT Chambers]

Yes, I was using the factory crimp die and putting on a pretty strong crimp, per the recommendation of Mike Venturino. However, I don't really know what a "strong crimp" is and could easily be over doing it. But why doesn't it do it to all the cases?

The brass are not trimmed, but I don't see where that would have an effect on this type of crimp die.

I'm not crimping with the seating die because - well because. I'm not sure of this, but I was under the impression that this collet crimper was somehow better. I'll back it off a bit next time and see what happens.

Thanks for the comments.

Oh yes, just to be clear, seating the bullet is done in the seating die, separately from the crimping operation.
The seating die is also used to crimp, no other die is required, the seating die can be adjusted to seat and crimp in one step or to seat first and then crimp in a separate second step. Proper and consistent case neck tension is far more important to making good accurate ammo.

[popper]

You can bulge the neck with the FCD - tight crimp and still pushing the case up. In this case I would think it's catching on the mouth.

[mdi]

I was under the impression he was using one of these. http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/factory-crimp-die/ If he had it adjusted too low, then the collet would over crimp the mouth and hold on while he tried to shove the shell in even further doing what you see in the picture. It also looks like the bullet was not seated in all the way. Maybe he was using the crimping feature of his seating die.

Yep, that's the answer. I prefer a collet crimp on my rifle ammo, over a roll or taper, when I crimp any 30-06 or .308 ammo. Not a big deal and not a lot of extra "work/time". I get a more even, consistent crimp with a collet type than rolling or taper/squeezing type of crimp.

Back way off on the crimp...

BTW and FWIW, don't pay a lot of attention to reloading "celebrities". Your best info will come from the manufacturer's instructions and your reloading manuals...

[BrentD]

Well, I'll be definitely backing off with the collet crimper (I have not used the roll crimp feature of the seating die). I probably just misinterpretted Mike's advice. I don't know much about smokeless. But I do trust Mike. He shoots seriously as a competitor and knows his stuff, so he was my first stop for trying to begin on these modern contraptions. What I do best is black powder and paper patched bullets. It is a way different game.

[eveready]

Brent, Try disassembling your crimp die and cleaning it. The collet fingers
may have a little dirt in it causing it to hang up. I had the same problem , cleaning the die solved the problem.