which ar?

[Tom W.]

Bushmaster
Dpms

Or what?
I never had one, and read that they are basically all alike.

[Digger]

Dmps ??

[DerekP Houston]

I've got a delton and a colt, I'd recommend colt or DIY this time. Biggest question for me was 5.56 vs .223 and twist rates on the barrel. You can find all the options from every brand these days.

[Boolit_Head]

Build your own, it's a great learning experience.

[Outpost75]

A real rifle is of a caliber which starts with a "3" and contains no plastic parts!

My rifle in boot camp was serial no. 4208350. Guess what it was?

[gnostic]

It really doesn't matter, as the same people, make most of the parts marketed under various brand names.

[imashooter2]

A real rifle is of a caliber which starts with a "3" and contains no plastic parts!

My rifle in boot camp was serial no. 4208350. Guess what it was?

Outdated?

[Boolit_Head]

A real rifle is of a caliber which starts with a "3" and contains no plastic parts!

My rifle in boot camp was serial no. 4208350. Guess what it was?

Like 300 Blackout? Hmmm looking over at my two leaning in the rack only one has 1 plastic part.

[Tom W.]

As I said, I never had one. I've been looking at Bud's gun shop for an entry-level rifle, and there is a Bushmaster for right at $600. I dunno if I'd need a chrome lined barrel or not. Probably not,as I probably won't shoot it too much. It's a wanna, not a need. Something else to shoot targets and plink with.

[DerekP Houston]

I would just go with the base model and go from there. If you wanted to go up to a chrome barrel then you will probably know more about them at that point to decide better. For range food/plinking I stuck a cheap primary arms red dot on mine and blast away. Not like you won't be able to sell it for twice its value in a few months ;).

[Fishman]

Build your own, it's a great learning experience.

+1. Check out Palmetto State Armory for one stop shopping.

[GhostHawk]

I have to agree with outpost a bit.

The only guy I have ever seen hit anything over 25 yards with an AR with anything approaching what I would call accuracy looked military, had what appeared to be a tricked out AR-10 shooting .308 and was shooting at the 200 yard berm not the 25 or 50. Being as I could not see his targets that far out I could not say if he missed any.

But the ones on paper were all in one nice group, maybe 1.5 inches with a single wind flyer out at 3.

I was never in the Military, I am sure that that they have a place, and they are good at something other than going through ammunition in a hurry and selling parts. I just don't care enough at this point to give a hoot.

Outpost, my favorite is a .357 mag in a Handi rifle, single shot. If I do my part it will cloverleaf at 100 or more. That part is however getting harder as I age. I also have a .444 marlin that pushes the .357 mag hard on the accuracy side. IMO both qualify.

Put me in the "1 shot where it needs to be, with enough snort to do the job the first time" column.
I will let others clog up the "30 rounds minute of 5 gallon bucket at 50 yards" column.

Does not matter how much ammo you can carry if you can not keep that other guy on the other side from doing to you before you can do it to him. First one better count.

[runfiverun]

the 50 or so rock chucks I have shot from 50 to nearly 300 yds this year would disagree with the assessment that the 223 is worthless/inaccurate/cheap.
I won't buy an AR that costs less than a grand and the one I mainly use [STAG 6-H] for varmint hunting weighs about 8 pounds.
but it will shoot 1/2" 100 yd groups with the bullets I make for it.

the Armalite NM-15 I shoot at 300+ yds is accurate enough to ring the 6" gongs with boring regularity.
it would be better with a scope.
there are other very good ones out there too, Daniel Defense and Wylde both come to mind.

all of the good ones are solid and accurate much better than the Colt Sp-101 I had back in the day.
and for sure more accurate and better fit than anything Uncle Sam gave me.

[Jupiter7]

With everything that is "alike", there are different levels of quality. Personally I wouldn't buy a bushmaster or Dpms or Delton, no need to detail, they are the lower tier. Same goes with PSA's cheaper lines(freedom, Ptac). PSA premium line with CHF FN made barrels are great. If I was gonna buy a non-Colt basic rifle, I'd get the Aero Precision rifle linked below.

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aero-ac-15-complete-rifle.html

[Lonegun1894]

I have a Bushmaster that does 1.5"@100 yds with the standard A2 sights, and has never failed me. I also have a few builds, and would recommend that route unless what you see on the shelf has everything you want. Honestly, before you either buy or build, I would figure out what you want to do with this rifle, and then get whatever will make you happy.

[6bg6ga]

You can pay for a name or you can have two of them for the same price. Stay clear of the poly/plastic lowers and you will be fine. I'm partial to the Anderson lowers because they can be bought cost effectively and the money you save can be put toward a good trigger setup.

[StuBach]

I'm very partial to my Rock River LAR-15. Great starter setup (wife and I each have one, and it will easily outperform what I am capable of. Had it at the 200yrd range busting clays (set them up as targets). Their base trigger isn't bad either till you have the money to drop in better.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LUCKYDAWG13]

+ 1 you cant go wrong with RRA they make good stuff

[Preacher Jim]

Build your own. Buy the best barrel to fit your desired shooting distance. Select a twist for the type and weight bullets you think you will be shooting. If you want match accuracy get a 24 inch match barrel with bolt headspace to barrel. 1/2 moa, is possible better if you are a careful loader. Junk shoots poorly. You plan and build it will shoot.

[jmort]

Colt.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Well... bushmaster and dpms where both bought by the freedom group at the same time so the bushmaster, dpms and Remington ar15 are all the same rifle with a different engraving. With the being said nothing wrong with them but I personally build all of my own.

[sundog]

Build one. Get a stripped lower (or three or five) and spend your money on a GOOD TRIGGER. Build the upper, too, or just find a good complete upper on sale. When you get done you'll have it set up like you want, not like 'they' will sell you an entry level. Money is about the same other than having a much better than entry level trigger. Much better over all. All other parts being what they are, it's all about the trigger and sights/optics.

I do not like ARs, haven't since basic training in '68, but one cannot argue with their success. My Rock River NM shoots better than I can. It is certainly the easiest rifle to use shooting NRA High Power, and one cannot argue that they are not accurate.

[Earlwb]

I don't know, the AR's all seem to be the same to me. I carried a M16 many years ago when I was in the USMC, but in boot camp it was a M14. So I guess I got bored with them from that time. Many years ago I did get a AR and I put a bipod on it along with a scope. But you know, I only shot it a few times to make sure it worked, and then it wound up being a shelf queen. I eventually sold it. Interesting is that I didn't regret selling it, it worked good, but just didn't do anything for me. Usually I regret selling a gun, but not it.

Someone made a video while out pig hunting with an AR. He seemed to fire an awful lot of rounds at a pig to bring it down. Looked like he emptied a magazine doing it. That didn't seem good to me. Now a AR would be good for shooting people but it doesn't seem much good for anything else. Now the AR's do seem to be like Harley Motorcycles in that the folks love to deck them out with all the latest goodies and doodads to make them look good. Many stores today seem to have an aisle or a couple of aisles devoted to AR parts and accessories so obviously the guns are quite popular.

But from your poll choices, since the Bushmaster got all the bad publicity lately, I suppose it would be the one to go with if you had to get one. I would likely go with a S&W AR style rifle myself.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

me and my son built his AR on his 16th birthday I would pick up a piece at a time at gun shows and got some good black Friday sales total cost was under $500 dollars 169191

[gnostic]

'As I said, I never had one. I've been looking at Bud's gun shop for an entry-level rifle, and there is a Bushmaster for right at $600. I dunno if I'd need a chrome lined barrel or not. Probably not,as I probably won't shoot it too much. It's a wanna, not a need. Something else to shoot targets and plink with.'

Chrome lined barrels are for military use, full auto etc. Chrome Molly and nitrite coating is newer, better and more accurate.

[Cord]

Buy once, cry once. Get a reliable, durable rifle that will do it all;
if you buy a cheap plinker and need a serious rifle later you will be sorry.

A Colt LE6920 is more $, but will also hold its resale value compared to the cheaper brands,
and the self built rifle will always be a big question mark for a used gun buyer.

Building one yourself is good, but is not for beginners; add the cost of the tools you need
for assembly and the savings start to fade away unless you build more than one.

There is a big difference in quality between the basic models and the better, "serious" rifles
but only $300-$400 in price. The Colt LE6920 is the least expensive of the better rifles.

To be clear - I am not suggesting a $2,500 rifle or anywhere near that.
But before I would pay $600 for an average AR,
I would buy a new Colt LE6920, on Gunbroker for $899 plus free shipping.

Here is an OLD thread; it’s very long, but just check out the first page and
compare the pictures of the feed ramps and gas key staking on various rifles…..
There are major differences between brands.

http://forums.officer.com/t81462/

The prices and specs have changed a lot since that thread started, and later in the thread
the OP changes his opinion on his original “best buy for the money” rifle,
but some may find the information in this old thread interesting..
.
Remember the fallen on this Memorial Day....
.

[6bg6ga]

It doesn't take a $2500 AR to shoot good. People get caught up with names. I would put my less than 1K AR up against anybodys.

[Garyshome]

Build your own with an 80% lower.

[Mica_Hiebert]

What are your plans with this rifle? I have both a 5.56 and a 7.62x39 ar15 but the 9mm ar I built for my brother was my favorite to shoot as far as plate plinking goes. I just have too much 5.56 and x39 ammo to feed them to get the alternative.

[gnoahhh]

I built an entry-level AR recently, using an Anderson lower and a JSE upper. Not being a "run and gun" kind of guy I went with a 20" H-bar configuration, .223 Wylde barrel by Wilson, 1-9" twist, A3 configured (no sights). The rail fore and aft allows any sight configuration- which for me is a set of quick detach irons and a Vortex CrossfireII scope in a QD mount. The 1-9" twist suits me fine as I don't see myself engaging targets beyond 300 yards (if even ever that far). If that attitude changes, having it re-barreled is a snap.

So far, accuracy has been outstanding. After the initial PIA break-in routine with crummy PMC FMJ el-cheapo ammo, it has settled into being a reliable 1-1 1/2" gun at 100yds. with my handloads to date (Varget and CFE-223 and 55gr. Hornady SP's.) (I give a fair bit of credit for that to using top shelf loading dies, and the Vortex scope- an image so sharp it cuts your eyeball, parallax free, and a usable reticle.)

It was a lot of fun researching the possibilities and actually building the lower (I bought the upper complete). Would I do it again now that it's done? Probably not, as I too put my heart into stuff that starts with a "3". It is, on the other hand, comforting to know it's setting ready with a handful of full magazines- gathering dust with the rest of them!

[Geezer in NH]

http://www.windhamweaponry.com/

THE original Bushmasters being made by the owner and laid off Bushmaster workers when Remington laid them off. They are using the same contractors the originals used for the parts.

[Mauser48]

Palmetto

[Hawk4570]

I look at buying a fully-assembled AR first as a test-bed to figure out exactly how you want to do your next build. The only one I bought whole was an RRA 458 SOCOM (an UNreal rifle, starts with a '4' {there's even a '5'}).

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/Hawk451/IMG_0079_zpshyxxx32w.jpg (http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Hawk451/media/IMG_0079_zpshyxxx32w.jpg.html)

For 223/5.56, the 223 Wylde chamber lets you use both. 1-8 twist is usually good for 45-69 & maybe 75 grain bullets.

I've got a 'cheap project' upper using Anderson parts that shoots sub-MOA & a White Oak SPR build that I'm hoping to break 1/2 MOA with.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/Hawk451/IMG_0469_zpschtd6s5b.jpg (http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Hawk451/media/IMG_0469_zpschtd6s5b.jpg.html)

Triggers: a crunchy 7# mil-spec trigger is hard to get used to. RRA match 2 stage runs 4 to 4-1/2# very crisp. Geissele makes great triggers & I've finally got over cackling manically ever time I press an AR Gold trigger.

Do some research and handle or fire every AR configuration you can before you decide.

I'd save the 80% lower for after a few upper builds unless you've got pretty good mechanical skills & confidence. Not really cost-effective compared to a stripped 100% receiver (you must own your tooling & do all the work), but very satisfying.

[dkf]

I'd recommend a BCM or at least one of their complete uppers. The 16" OE Lightweight rifle that is being advertised here from Brownells would be a good choice. Add the stock, handguard and sights you like.

[mac1911]

If your just wanting a AR for the wanting a AR just buy the 600$ bushmaster a case of ammo zero it for the iron sights or scope it has. Shoot the 1000 rounds. By then you should know what you like/dont and have a better idea of what you want from the platform.
Don't try to build a 600$ gun. If you go the build route build the best possible gun for the best deals on quality stuff you can.
I built a purpose built rifle .... heavy barrel CLE barrel free float tube 2 stage trigger lower stock for scope only.
I spent less than 1k mounted a Sightron SIII 8x32x50 scope ( nicest scope I had in the past 30 years was leupold vxiii 2.5x8x32.) With average reloads I'm at 1moa... put my first 10 shots at 200 into the X ring!!!

AR are decent and can shoot well if you choose wisely. A 16" light weight barrel will not hold a decent group vs a nice 20" heavy Match barrel.

In the past 10 years I have had 14 rifles....factory , builds, trades etc.
From carbine to 24" 204 ruger , 762x39 full blown tacticool ....
After all that I sold everything but 2. RRA standard A2 and a RRA A2 national match. Both of which sport a A1 length Stock. Then I wanted a scoped AR to play in mid range F class style shooting and a coyote hunt here and there.
Some one mentioned hog hunting with a AR. My buddy hunts hogs in FL with his AR. Loads nosler 60 grain ballistic tip bullets at 3100 fps and drops them easily, partitions also. Hogs are some tough animals a shot that doesn't hit vitals is only going to send the beast into a frenzy...

[Omega]

I have 3 complete and 2 in the works:

S&W M&P15 5.56
DPMS upper w/PSA lower 16" 300 Blackout
Spikes Tactical 10.5" 300 Blackout pistol

All the makings for a .277 Wolverine with 20" barrel, going with either the PSA or CMT upper and lower set, the other will be a pistol .277 WLV with. 10.5" barrel.

The most expensive of the bunch is the M&P at around $800, but all three shoot great and I expect the others to shoot as well or better. I wouldn't get wrapped up around the axle about brands, they are all the same functionally, just do some research to make sure there are no QC issues. I do recommend PSA for either parts or whole uppers and/or lowers though, catch a daily deal and you will save a ton.

[Harter66]

I bought an ATI Omni Hybrid. It's bugs were exactly as commented. But after a 150 or so rounds most of the burr bugs were slicked off . It's in 556 1-8 and starts about $450. The 2nd was built on an Aero Precision lower with a kit from Blackthorneproducts.com in a 6.8 Remington SPCII 1-11 twist . The ATI is an M4 style. The Blackthorne was an A2 flat top but it's internals were M4 . The A2 bird cage needed to be opened to "fix" crown fouling. I added a free float fore end and a low profile gas block . There's under $500 in it. The 279-124 FP NOE is a perfect fit with that particular SPCII chamber checked at .280 over 23.6 H322 @ 2150 fps it gives me an honest 1.75 in at 100 for 10 fired in about a minute . The ATI does 3" @100 with Wolf ,PMC and FC commercial GI FMJ 55 gr BT . A not tuned load with a NOE 225-55 @ 62 gr goes 2300 and about 2" .

End total in both rifles with glass ,mounts, sights, and extras for mods, dies, a NOE mould and a new sizer die was just a few bucks over 1100 .

[KYCaster]

If your just wanting a AR for the wanting a AR just buy the 600$ bushmaster a case of ammo zero it for the iron sights or scope it has. Shoot the 1000 rounds. By then you should know what you like/dont and have a better idea of what you want from the platform.



Good advice right there.

If you've never owned an AR how do you know what you want? If you don't know what you want how do you know what parts to buy for your own build?

The only option you should consider at this point is iron sights (A2) vs. optics (A4). Brand name doesn't mean a whole lot....very few make all their own parts. With the current state of the market you should be able to find several options around the $600 mark. Just pick a company you trust to fix any possible defects.

Don't be too concerned about all those claims of lousy accuracy. Google "AR-15 mag dump" and you'll see why those rumors persist. I wonder why they even have sights on their guns.

Good luck
Jerry

[Tom W.]

I can't really say why I want one, not even sure that I do. I sure ain't gonna try and build one, and my hunting days are probably over. Going to be playing with it, mostly... Paper and other targets.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Any AR in the $500-600 price range is going to get you where you need to go. The guns are meant for Social Purposes. Learning how to run one and hit a target out to 300 yards is what they are all about. Any of the Basic AR's will do this. Virtually all of the manufacturers use the same outfits for internal parts and the same furniture. Barrels are everywhere however a Chrome Lined one is a good thing as you won't be worrying about cleaning it everytime you shoot it.

Makers with guns in this class are Ruger AR556, DPMS, Bushmaster, Delton, Palmetto, and probably a dozen others.

It is pointless to spend a bunch of money on a gun like this simply because unless you are getting into competition or going to war you will never be able to shoot enough to benefit from the Higher $ parts in the gun. If the gun has a decent barrel it will shoot, and the Stock Trigger Parts can be made to function very well with only a minor amount of TLC. Any minor deviations in Reliability can be dealt with by learning how to properly clear malfunctions.

I bought a Bushmaster Carbon 15 which is a very lightweight rifle with a composite Upper and Lower receiver. All the internal parts are the same as any other Bushmaster Rifle. It does have a chrome lined barrel and I have never cleaned it. It has about 1500 rounds thru it and runs just fine. I paid $575 for it and then put Magpul Furniture on it (cuz I like the feel) a Bushnell TRS 25 Red Dot for a sight ( Replacing the Cheap Red Dot it came with) and a Magpul Rear Sight and a Sling I make. I have about $800 in it now and it is exactly what I want in an AR. I can hit an 8x10" steel Plate at 200 yds every single time off a rest with any Factory ammo or my Reloads. The gun weighs 6lbs 8 oz. and I can carry it all day at a Front Sight Class without fatigue. It runs perfectly and so far has not had one malfunction. I shoot some oil on the bolt once in awhile.

All I want on any AR is a Chrome Lined Barrel, and I like the Magpul Furniture, everything else can be stock parts as I can make them work just fine.

I have a lower I don't even remember the outfit that made it, and I'm pretty sure they are long gone. I will buy a Rifle Kit from either Palmetto or Del Ton and finish it some day. With DelTon you can order the Magpul Furniture and chrome barrel as an upgrade to any of their kits, so that is what I'll do.

Don't go ape, and spend a bunch of money on a high dollar AR. You won't get your monies worth out of it and I assure that a $600 AR will be much easier to sell than a $1600 or $2600 AR, if you ever needed to.

A more prudent use of your funds would be on Training to learn how to run that gun, than a $200 trigger or $400 barrel. AR's have a pretty complicated "Manual of Arms" and it takes lots of practice to learn how to run one well. Running one is more important than having an expensive one. See it frequently, and in Fact I saw it today at a LGS, where a young guy was rattling off all the high dollar piece parts he had in his gun, and the shop owner asked him how many classes he'd been to,,,

Answer,,, "None, I already know how to shoot and I don't need someone to teach me."

I can assure you that he does not, And he does need someone to teach him!

No matter how good you think you are, there is ALWAYS something more to learn.

This applies to most subjects, unless you're a Democrat? Then you already know everything.

Randy

[Harter66]

A couple of friends dropped by . This is the beginning of the basic problem of wanting an AR. These are just basic cosmetic variations. The damned things are worse than that Contender/Encore that you innocently checked out .

169487

Now you have 6 bbls , 2 receivers ,stocks .
The AR starts with 5 basic configurations then you have 10 basic butt stocks , dozens of fore ends , dozens of gas blocks from GI to 4 plex 1913 and just a collar. Gas ports come in carbine, mid and rifle length and pistol . Barrels run from 6-24", from .9 to the .825 gas port step to a GI with a M203 step, with and without threads for 50 or more flash hiders .
Cartridges ! Good greif there are 4 or 5 bolt faces for basically every case head . If it has less than a 2.3 OAL and is of a caliber from 17-50 and rimless without a belt from the mundane 223 to a shortened 250 Savage that on paper looks like a 257 Roberts . There are straight blow back uppers available for 9,40 and 45.

[dragon813gt]

I still don't know what I want ;)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/image.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/dragon813gt/media/Firearms/image.jpg.html)

I own four of them. The only thing the same between them is PSA parts kits, ALG ACT triggers and Magpul furniture. Have all gas length systems except pistol. Have a piston upper that I really enjoy. What I don't have is one that's lightweight. Selecting HBAR barrels probably wasn't the smartest move. Like I said, I still don't know what I want.

I should have bought a few DelTons because none of my builds were under $600. And that was w/ only buying when parts are on sale. The entry level rifles are a lot of gun for the money and more than adequate for most people. This is assuming you want to shoot and not participate in the fashion show that is ARs :beer:

[Combat Diver]

I've been running AR15/M16/M4s for over 3 decades around the globe, they do work. Been issued many Colts over the years for uncle but have always built my own since 87' (XM177E2 copy, 11.5" 1:12) I've got a 10.3 pistol (1:7), couple 14.5 carbines (pinned to 16", bayonet fits and 1:7), one 16" (1:9), couple Green Mtn SS 18" (1;14, 1:6, 1:5 twst) and 20" 1:7s. Those are all 5.56 or .223 Wylde and looking at a 6.8 SPC II for a deer rifle. Right now I keep Uncles guns running here in Iraq (mainly 10.3 shorties for SOF) As a starter gun you can not go wrong with one of the entry guns. Use that later as a base if you decide what you want. Remember to vote this November or you may never have the oppurtionity again if Hillary wins.

CD

[Bigslug]

Colt. Military contract specs, an actual 5.56 chamber (as oppose to kinda-sorta), military contract assembly checklist procedures, 50 years of practice at it.

[Tom W.]

Went to Bud's gun shop and got my hands on a few. If I get one I believe it will be the S&W. Thanks for your input.

[Shiloh]

Lots of good rifles. Gonna build or buy?? Check out http://palmettostatearmory.com/

Shiloh

[500MAG]

I've used Radical Firearms uppers for my 458 Socom and 300 BO

[Ickisrulz]

Do some research on the AR websites. Many people in the "know" prefer Colt and BCM (there are some others). It's a buyers market for now anyway.

[Texas by God]

S&W. Put a Rock River Varmit trigger in it. Buy a ten rd mag for bench shooting. Around $600 so far and will teach you all you need to know about AR. I started with an $1100 FN A2 20" but have since built my own. Anderson and Palmetto offer great parts. AR snobbery is rampant- folks will tell you you MUST spend a grand at least to start. Horse puckey. Best,Thomas.

[dverna]

Preacher,
A long barrel does not help accuracy. It will give higher velocity.

[FergusonTO35]

[QUOTE]A real rifle is of a caliber which starts with a "3" and contains no plastic parts!/QUOTE]

My thoughts exacty. Marlin 336!!:drinks:

For those who disagree I would go with Anderson or Double Star, made right here in the Bluegrass.

[oger]

I agree, it always worked and was extremely accurate plus it shot a round that wasn't good for sage rats and not much else.

[Outpost75]

Here it is:

171167

[birch]

You cannot go wrong with a Colt 6920/as a couple on here posted. It is a terrific platform as it stands and can be modified with a nice trigger group if you decide you want a 600 yard clay pigeon slayer.

I also have to agree with Outpost 75. The Garand is about as much fun a guy can have with his pants on!

[Texas by God]

Funny thing how some folks answered the OP's question and some just-didn't. Question: what's the most accurate and longest serving military rifle? That would be the AR/M16. And while we're at it anyone who can't kill a deer/pig or bad guy with one shot with a 5.56 has no buisness shooting. Rant over! Best, Thomas.

[danski26]

I prefer Colt

[dragon813gt]

Any manufacturer except Colt.

[Lonegun1894]

Any manufacturer except Colt.

+1. Any manufacturer that intentionally changes their design (pin sizes and the assorted parts that said pins hold) to make it harder for you and me to fix it, can keep their product.

[birch]

Are you referring to the sp1? If not, the 6920 is about as milspec and standard as it gets. The sp1 has different pin sizes between upper and lower, and the fcg group pin is different, but Colt standardized the AR15.

Long live Colt!

[DerekP Houston]

I have the LE6920 and a Del-ton...I purchased a giselle expensive trigger kit to upgrade either, didn't fit either of them. Tried to send it back to midway and they tell me I shipped them back the wrong parts (I tagged them with electrical tape as I removed parts to keep them separate).....I gave up and they are sitting back in the safe set back to stock configuration. The colt does shoot nice, but I kinda figured all AR parts were interchangeable as long as you matched the same size pins etc.

[birch]

I did as well. I guess you learn something new every day.

[Texas by God]

My three FrankenARs will all shoot into 1.5" 5shots @ 100yds these are carbines built with mixed parts but all have RR triggers. One 5.56 has Diamondback barrel the other is Palmetto/FN, and my .300 BO has an Anderson- all 1-7" twist. Best, Thomas.

[Tom W.]

What about the Ruger AR 556? Any experience with it? The price looks good ( when I can find one) and it's what I 'd like to shoot cabbages and paper...Comes complete with sights... Remember, I have no experience with an Ar. Mostly shoot Ruger #1's, Super Redhawks and Blackhawks, as well as an occasional Glock or 1911... Don't hunt anymore....

[root]

LMT = LMT, Lauer(old), DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett, Bushmaster (?)
CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske (old), Century (current), Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI (1st batch), Wilson Tactical, (some?) Colt, Ratworx
LAR = Grizzly, Bushmaster (L Prefix), Ameetech, (?)DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton, Spike's Tactical, Noveske (new)
MMS = Mega, Gunsmoke, Dalphon, POF (forged), Alexander Arms (http://rd.bizrate.com/rd?t=http%3A%2F%2Fads.midwayusa.com%2Fproduct%2F31 6928%2Falexander-arms-ar-15-entry-a3-upper-receiver-assembly-50-beowulf-165-barrel%3Fcm_mmc%3Dpf_ci_connexity-_-Gunsmithing%2B-%2BAR-15%2BUpper%2BAssemblies%2B%2526%2BBarrels-_-Alexander%2BArms-_-316928&mid=77064&cat_id=12150125&atom=10468&prod_id=&oid=6710042771&***=1&b_id=18&bid_type=9&bamt=e15def21c8be840e&cobrand=1&ppr=a17197752c1ab52c&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=12&af_creative_id=2932&af_id=[PUBLISHER_ID]&af_placement_id=1&dv=d58b82d27c0d482333b3d3723d81661d), Stinger, Spike's Tactical(old)
JVP = Double Star, LRB
Olympic = Olypmic, SGW, Tromix, Palmetto, Dalphon, Frankford, (old) Century
Superior = Superior Arms, Lauer (current)
Grenadier Precision
Sabre Defence (?)

There are also a number of custom cut billet lower receivers:

MGI multi-caliber
COBB multi-caliber

JP CTR-02
SOCOM Diamond (out of business?)
Sun Devil
POF - 415/416 Gen 1 (no trigger guard), Gen 2 (integral winter guard), Gen 3(integral guard + ambi bolt release)
Smith & Wesspon M&P-15PC Performance Center Model

7.62x51 receivers
POF - P-308 Gen 1 (winter trigger guard + ambi bolt release)
DPMS Panther LR-308
Fulton FAR-308 (made by DMPS)
Hesse HAR-10 (bleh... really crappy machining)

Wishful thinking:
Oberland Arms / HK 416/417 (billet)
Magpul (http://www.brownells.com/manufacturers/magpul/index.htm) (soon I hope)
LaRue (people have been asking.... lol)
Vltor (you never know...)
LMT (very wishful thinking...)

Not sure if RRA .308 vaporware will be forged or billet.


HHHMMMMmmmmmmmm........

Let's here it for the COLT COLT COLT COLT ONLY crowd!

Looks like the same junk centrury AR lower is the SAME company that makes your holy grail approved COLT!

Fact of the matter is right nw there are about 4 companies that make them all. It's come down to what roll mark do you want?

List taken from NFATALK ( think it was stolen from BARFCOM) and now since someone asked and I see so many touting the "COLT" as the holy grail I figured I'd post it over here for a look.....

Rich

[Tom W.]

Gee, THAT was a lot of help :-[

[Lonegun1894]

I think what Root is trying to say is be picky about configuration and parts, but don't worry so much about what name is stamped on the lower receiver because it really doesn't matter near as much as most people think. Think about it. The lower is just where the butt-stock, pistol grip, and firing mechanism are. So as long as the lower holds those parts in the correct position, which all of them will do, the only other thing it has to do is hold the upper on with the two pins that connect the two halves. The two things the name on the lower will really do for you is affect resale value if you choose to sell it someday, and some are better finished than others. Notice I said better finished, but said nothing about more functional. I have seen these rifles function just fine regardless of if they look like you just took them out of the box and haven't put a single nick in the finish, and have seen them work when they were spray-painted because all the finish was worn off, and after they were taken for a long swim in both fresh and salt water. The name on the lower is fairly insignificant, but some of the parts are what really matters. So find one you like and then shoot it til you trust it, instead of beating yourself up over nothing. After all, you have to make yourself happy, and not me or anyone else here.

[Lloyd Smale]

Olympic, bushmaster and dmps are about all on the same quality level, stag and rock river a bit better and colt a tick better. That said I sure don't feel a colt is worth twice what a dmps or bushmaster is. Ive owned a number of entry level ars for all three of those companys. Still own a entry level dmps and bushmaster. I bought both for around 600 bucks. Both have been great guns. Totally reliable and accurate. they basically do anything my colt and stag do. Id bet some of those guns get more shots run down range in weekend that someone in the army would shoot out of his colt in a year. Its not unheard of for me to head to camp or to the range with a 1000 rounds of ammo and come back with just empty brass. Id trust my life and my familys life to either of those inexpensive ars.

[root]

I think what Root is trying to say is be picky about configuration and parts, but don't worry so much about what name is stamped on the lower receiver because it really doesn't matter near as much as most people think. Think about it. The lower is just where the butt-stock, pistol grip, and firing mechanism are. So as long as the lower holds those parts in the correct position, which all of them will do, the only other thing it has to do is hold the upper on with the two pins that connect the two halves. The two things the name on the lower will really do for you is affect resale value if you choose to sell it someday, and some are better finished than others. Notice I said better finished, but said nothing about more functional. I have seen these rifles function just fine regardless of if they look like you just took them out of the box and haven't put a single nick in the finish, and have seen them work when they were spray-painted because all the finish was worn off, and after they were taken for a long swim in both fresh and salt water. The name on the lower is fairly insignificant, but some of the parts are what really matters. So find one you like and then shoot it til you trust it, instead of beating yourself up over nothing. After all, you have to make yourself happy, and not me or anyone else here.

Yes quality parts are more important then a rollmark nowadays.

I have a dps that is a sbr a oly 300 black out and a new frontier with a dpms 22 upper.

The poly new frontier is substandard as far as i am concerned and that's why it has the 22 upper on it. I truly believe that it can't handle any more then that power wise.

I also have 3 other lowers that i bought they were 80% was a sale last black Friday. 80's for 80. 3 80% lowers for 80 bux tyd.
That's the reason for the other thread i started. I'm milling them now.

Again you pretty much have 4 companies to chose from then chose you roll mark.

Rich
ETA: fix auto correct.

[Ickisrulz]

Even if products come from just a few factories, different specifications and QC can be required by final assemblers. There are reports that there have been lower receivers that were out of specifications (if the internet can be believed anyway). Oddly enough these were less expensive ones.

[Tom W.]

Thanks. That clears things up quite a bit. Please don't think I was being rude.

[Texas by God]

Tom W; I recommended the S&W after reading your first post because they are advertised on the radio here (North Texas) for $499. Admittedly my AR experience is less than others but I've crammed a lot into a few years. My shooting range is my farm so I can shoot 24/7 if I want. The only polymer lower I can recommend is the CavArms one piece -they are great to build lightweight guns with. I haven't seen the Ruger yet but I'm sure it's fine since it's a Ruger! Good luck on your quest! Best, Thomas. P.S. the only reason I got into ARs is feral hogs( the best gun for hunting them)

[osteodoc08]

I guess it depends on the purpose and budget.

Run of of the mill AR to put in the closet and shoot every now and then, a DPMS or Bushy is fine.

I enjoy all my AR from the cheap PSA to my heavy barreled target models to my upper end POF. They all go bang. They all are capable of good to fantastic accuracy. Just depends on what you want

[ole 5 hole group]

I see no reason to purchase any AR that is not a gas piston but some will find a reason I'm sure. Take a look at the Huldra line - the sale is off as of today but for the last month, they were selling at half price. My SIL purchased the Elite complete rifle and Evo upper 2 weeks ago for just a tick under $1200 (719.99 elite & 399.99 Evo upper). I've had the Elite for the past couple years and it shoots as good as anything else out there and better than some.


The gas piston lower just doesn't get dirty and I don't care what you shoot, how often or how many rounds - it just doesn't carbon up or get messy/dirty - there really isn't a good reason to purchase a DI anymore except for maybe price????

http://www.huldraarms.com/rifles/category_9a02b126bcd8/

[root]

Thanks. That clears things up quite a bit. Please don't think I was being rude.

I have really really thick skin and didn't think you were being rude.
I hang out at some pretty wild west type gun forums.
Silencer talk, NFAtalk and UZItalk. All three pretty much let us all work things out with no to little MOD.
So nomex underware and being a wordsmith help.
One reason why when you go to NFAtalk all the threads are empty. you MUST be a member to even see posts of any kind.
It's brutal there.

I bought my 1st Bushmaster in 1994 a preban for 400.00 bux.

Before the AWB these guns were very unpopular and only a few makers so then a lower did matter.

Now everyone is making them and thanks to consolidation now with cerebus (sp? ) buying most of the big names we are down to 4 Co's that make the lowers instead of in house production like you saw through the 70's 80's and 90's.

Now for a story on Quality.

In 2011 when I built my SBR a friend did so also.
We went with a bet.


Time on F1's quality and price.
Winner got to laugh at the loser.
Well he was beating me in price, I was winning in BATFE form approval,
We were 1 and 1 until it was time to pull the trigger.

not a lot of companies were producing 300 BLKOUT barrels at the time it was just getting standardized, little to no info on it for subs. or reloading in general then.
Most of us were using 300 wisper data to load subs.

He bought a 300 blkout barrel no name off of ebay 125.00 bux cheaper then mine.
we got to the range to test.

He's now 1:1 on me beating me in price.

We get out to test fire and his gun went bang but didn't cycle. NOT a big deal then subs were that way then in ar's.
He went to pull the charging handle and it wouldn't extract.
He had to "mortar" the gun to get the case out. Was that way with the next 4 rounds before he quit shooting it.
Chamber was that out of spec. cases were swelling so bad it wouldn't eject.
My gun didn't cycle either but each case came right out. ( improper powder not enough gas)
I bought a name brand from a company that had a good rep.
I beat him in all three catagories when it was done.
Price, f1 time, and quality.

Moral of this long winded story?
DON'T SKIMP on the parts to finish your lower and don't skimp on any gun part.,
YOU get what you pay for.

We have a saying in the NFA community.
" Buy once, Cry once"

I am truly sorry I bought that poly new frontier lower as I said about the only thing it's good for is a .22 dedicated upper.
They flex so bad.
And the Poly lowers are the only ones you will ever see me bash.
Ya there are vids of it trigger pulling hundreds and thousands of rounds. They never show a slow mo. with the lower flex. you can even see it with the DPMS 18 inch dedicated .22 upper. The flex that is. You can also feel it when you pull the trigger.

Only one I won't recomend is a poly lower.
Any other is what you "like" don't spend a million dollars building it. Just get good quality parts from know sellers so if you get a out of spec. part you can return it. ( it does happen)

Sorry for the Long winded Novel.
I would preffer you get what you want and build it to NOT be disapointed with the AR system. they are wonderful rifles.

Rich

[Greg S]

I'd go Colt 6920 or 6600 or secure a lower and build using quality parts from BCM, Colt (pricey), DD, Noveske of LMT. The chrome lined barrel came about after the introduction of the M16 when soldiers were having problems extracting rounds out of the chamber. If you go stainless, chrome is not needed.

for a general plinker, 5.56 chamber, if planning on shooting matches, the wylde chamber.

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm far from rich and when I look at 1200 compared to 600 for a di gun and I factor in I own 7 of them right now and all are VERY reliable guns I go the other route and will say I would never bother with a gas piston gun. If I have to clean my gun every 500 rounds so be it. I cant picture a scenario that I ever would NEED to shoot 500 rounds without an opportunity to take 10 minutes out to clean my gun. If I had 1200 bucks to spend on an ar I think id rather buy myself a di gun with higher quality components like barrels bolt groups ect then spend the the extra money buying a gas piston. I guess maybe if I was having reliability problems I could blame on fouling after a couple mags that couldn't be fixed by a little tweaking id put it on the used gun rack and buy another 700 dollar ar. I guess I never was one for high dollar ars of any design. I see guys spending 3k on an ar shooting there guns right along side of me and there groups are no better and both guns make it through a range session without a hiccup. Yup a porche may be a better car then a vet but the vet is just as fast and just as reliable and costs half the money. It just doesn't impress the nose in the air group at the country club. I know where this guys hard earned money would go.
I see no reason to purchase any AR that is not a gas piston but some will find a reason I'm sure. Take a look at the Huldra line - the sale is off as of today but for the last month, they were selling at half price. My SIL purchased the Elite complete rifle and Evo upper 2 weeks ago for just a tick under $1200 (719.99 elite & 399.99 Evo upper). I've had the Elite for the past couple years and it shoots as good as anything else out there and better than some.


The gas piston lower just doesn't get dirty and I don't care what you shoot, how often or how many rounds - it just doesn't carbon up or get messy/dirty - there really isn't a good reason to purchase a DI anymore except for maybe price????

http://www.huldraarms.com/rifles/category_9a02b126bcd8/

[Lloyd Smale]

Id much rather have one of those then a cheap gas piston gun
I'd go Colt 6920 or 6600 or secure a lower and build using quality parts from BCM, Colt (pricey), DD, Noveske of LMT. The chrome lined barrel came about after the introduction of the M16 when soldiers were having problems extracting rounds out of the chamber. If you go stainless, chrome is not needed.

for a general plinker, 5.56 chamber, if planning on shooting matches, the wylde chamber.

[root]

Well since we are now going DI to Piston I'll say this.

All my guns are DI. ( accept the .22 it's a blowback)
And the ones I'm building will all be DI guns.

Another friend of mine into NFA like me has two piston guns.
Both SBR's both 10.5 .223 guns.

The only thing a piston upper does that we have noticed ,and this comes from not only shooting next to him but shooting the guns 1st hand.

With a suppressor there is less fouling in the lower.

IE: less internal blow back. in the gun and your face.

I'm with Lloyde Smale when it comes to the piston guns after 1st hand shooting.

If your in the sand box and suppressed then you want it. A two way shooting range DOES NOT have a time out !

average Joe like you and me suppressed? NO NEED for the piston upper.
It's a creature comfort. And NOT needed.

Hopefully you will clean the gun at some point before failures start as any responsible gun owner would.

Now if you want to toss money into it, have bragging rights and less money to spend on other things.
By all means DO IT!

Now for real bad gas? Something that will choke you out, make your eyes water, and kill skeeters.
Shoot my MAC 10 with the two stage suppressor, cast boolits, and unique. with a MAG dump.
There's a reason they make a gas kicker for the MAC series guns.

Might as well shoot a 45-70 pistol with full power BP loads. There would be less gas.

Also shooting with my friend neither of us have experienced any failures in either the DI or piston guns due to fouling.

The DI Vs. piston to me is a personal choice.

Rich

PS: I can't stress this enough STAY AWAY, far AWAY, from the poly lowers.
Another 1st hand experience

[smokeater]

Tom W,
I was in the same position as you. Wanting an AR but with so many brands was undecided which one to buy. Finally a local gun shop put the DPMS Oracle on sale for $500. Guess what I bought? It is nothing fancy (heck none of my guns are), but it is as accurate out to 130 yds (limit of my shooting range) as my bolt action 243Win. Not a problem hitting clay targets at that range. I handload and use Hornady or Speer 55gr SPs atop a good dose of H4895. Rifle is also as accurate using H335, H322 and IMR 4198. I have only killed one critter with mine so far and it was a big male coyote at a range of 80 yds. One shot-one kill. There is nothing wrong with the other brands, just depends on what one wants and for what purpose it will be used for. Heck the parts are all the same regardless of brand, it is just that some makers spend more time on their parts for a more smoother and tighter fit. Mine has a 3x9 scope on it but shot just as well with a cheap red dot sight. Hope to get to the CMP Shooting Complex in Talladega to see how it does out to 200yds at some point this summer. Main thing is just get one. They are an absolute hoot to shoot, heck, my wife loves to shoot 1 gal milk jugs filled with colored water. They just evaporate at 75 yds.

[ole 5 hole group]

My post really wasn't meant to turn the thread from DI to GP or to get anyone's panties in a wad about snotty country types.;) Just an attempt to give some individuals another choice at a great price. $720 for a gas piston AR, possessing a good aftermarket JP trigger, an upgraded stock and melonite barrel lining and coating is, in my opinion, a pretty good deal. One would probably know this if they built an AR from scratch, using best parts available - their opinion on best parts of course.

Price always matters - no difference if one is purchasing a 480 Ruger or a 475 Linebaugh built by Mr. Linebaugh - you either pay the freight or you don't. Justify it however you want, as it's your hard earned and saved money.

As far as a better platform? I didn't mean to imply the gas piston was better in any manner except in keeping the lower receiver much, much cleaner. For some, like me, that is just an added benefit.

These rifles do go on sale occasionally and at half off the regular price, I guess one can make their own decision, if that would be a worthwhile purchase, if one was in the market to purchase a 223 AR.

[Lloyd Smale]

difference is a gun by John or dustin is a work of art. A ar15 is a tool. I guess I never felt the need to buy a 50 dollar hammer or 500 dollar circ saw either. No panties in a wad here. Ive spent big money on guns!! If you doubt it ask my wife. I guess it all comes down to what your into. Maybe there worth it to someone whos uses it daily for a living but not to the average guy.
My post really wasn't meant to turn the thread from DI to GP or to get anyone's panties in a wad about snotty country types.;) Just an attempt to give some individuals another choice at a great price. $720 for a gas piston AR, possessing a good aftermarket JP trigger, an upgraded stock and melonite barrel lining and coating is, in my opinion, a pretty good deal. One would probably know this if they built an AR from scratch, using best parts available - their opinion on best parts of course.

Price always matters - no difference if one is purchasing a 480 Ruger or a 475 Linebaugh built by Mr. Linebaugh - you either pay the freight or you don't. Justify it however you want, as it's your hard earned and saved money.

As far as a better platform? I didn't mean to imply the gas piston was better in any manner except in keeping the lower receiver much, much cleaner. For some, like me, that is just an added benefit.

These rifles do go on sale occasionally and at half off the regular price, I guess one can make their own decision, if that would be a worthwhile purchase, if one was in the market to purchase a 223 AR.

[Sur-shot]

Do not know much about the AR system. I have only been following them since the 50s and building, repairing and shooting them in competition since 1964 when I was an armorer in the 101st Airborne, member of the rifle and pistol team and the armorer of the team. There is no magic to the AR platform, when it says military spec, it means the parts are all built to be interchangeable. Just about any 223-5,56 upper will shoot a 1 inch group. There are very few actual builders of receivers, both uppers and lowers in the US. Note, I said US. Some are simply a bit closer in tolerance than others. You want a good close tolerance lower so you can add uppers to it later. One of the best lowers in Rock River Arms. A very good upper for the money is SOTA Arms. Right now you can buy a complete 16 inch flat top upper with BCGS in 5.56 for $290. You can also buy a 16 inch flat top 7.62x39 upper with a 1-10 twist .308 caliber barrel complete with BCGS for $375. Plus they sell magazines for the 7.62 that really work. I have owned three of their uppers and they are well worth the money, barrels by them and made in the US of A.

Now with my limited experience, I happen to think New Frontier Armory makes a great polymer lower, actually the best polymer made. Of course, I am the one that ran over one of mine, I own several, with a bush-hog on my farm tractor. Took it apart, cleaned it, replaced the shredded upper (cut it apart with a saws-all) and shot a .67 inch group with that same lower the next day but I might be prejudiced. By the way if you have a problem with the NFA pins fitting an upper, it ain't the lower that is out of spec., period. Injection molding is capable of .0001 or better accuracy.
L to R is modified by bush-hog, next day new cheapo upper, .67 group.
Ed

[garym1a2]

03A3 springfield.


A real rifle is of a caliber which starts with a "3" and contains no plastic parts!

My rifle in boot camp was serial no. 4208350. Guess what it was?

[root]

Do not know much about the AR system. I have only been following them since the 50s and building, repairing and shooting them in competition since 1964 when I was an armorer in the 101st Airborne, member of the rifle and pistol team and the armorer of the team. There is no magic to the AR platform, when it says military spec, it means the parts are all built to be interchangeable. Just about any 223-5,56 upper will shoot a 1 inch group. There are very few actual builders of receivers, both uppers and lowers in the US. Note, I said US. Some are simply a bit closer in tolerance than others. You want a good close tolerance lower so you can add uppers to it later. One of the best lowers in Rock River Arms. A very good upper for the money is SOTA Arms. Right now you can buy a complete 16 inch flat top upper with BCGS in 5.56 for $290. You can also buy a 16 inch flat top 7.62x39 upper with a 1-10 twist .308 caliber barrel complete with BCGS for $375. Plus they sell magazines for the 7.62 that really work. I have owned three of their uppers and they are well worth the money, barrels by them and made in the US of A.

Now with my limited experience, I happen to think New Frontier Armory makes a great polymer lower, actually the best polymer made. Of course, I am the one that ran over one of mine, I own several, with a bush-hog on my farm tractor. Took it apart, cleaned it, replaced the shredded upper (cut it apart with a saws-all) and shot a .67 inch group with that same lower the next day but I might be prejudiced. By the way if you have a problem with the NFA pins fitting an upper, it ain't the lower that is out of spec., period. Injection molding is capable of .0001 or better accuracy.
L to R is modified by bush-hog, next day new cheapo upper, .67 group.
Ed



Man Sur-shot,
your AR looks like it met a Kali politician.
A testement to just how flexable the poly lowers are.
Looks like the lower took a few shots from the blade along with the rest of the rifle.

New Frontier may be the best poly lower out there.
I'll take your word for it. The only poly lower I've shot is mine, I still think it's junk with the flex in it.
I have a 18 inch Hbar DPMS .22 upper on mine and run it with a SWR Spectre.
Like I said I can feel it flex with every shot and when I pick it up by the PG one handed.

So if it's the "best poly lower"I can just imagine how much worse the "others" are that are made of poly.
Now it's not for sale or anything. It's dedicated to the upper. Instead of the other way around.

As far a the DI Vs. Piston I don't take any offense either.
And if I found one for he right price sure I'd buy it.

The way things are going though, I'd hurry up and not wait to get one or 10 if you really want one.
DO NOT wait until old worn out surplus Mags are 100 bux each again and parts are labeled/sold as PRE and POST
Those days/years really SUCKED!

My New Frontier AR.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/armalite_ar50/dpms1.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/armalite_ar50/media/dpms1.jpg.html)

Rich

ETA: and NO it's not mil spec. it's plastic LOL.

[dragon813gt]

I built one w/ an Adams Arms piston upper for $900. Yeah it's a 50% premium over the cheap DI guns. But it's not twice the cost. It runs a lot cleaner. Three position gas block is really handy if you have a can or you just want to single shot from a bench.

All my others are DI in various configurations. If and when piston parts come down in price there would be little reason for DI anymore. The only downside I see is some added weight.

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgBpWGiJNrM

[ole 5 hole group]

I built one w/ an Adams Arms piston upper for $900. Yeah it's a 50% premium over the cheap DI guns. But it's not twice the cost. It runs a lot cleaner. Three position gas block is really handy if you have a can or you just want to single shot from a bench.

All my others are DI in various configurations. If and when piston parts come down in price there would be little reason for DI anymore. The only downside I see is some added weight.

That Huldra I mentioned is made by Adams Arms, just added a few Fleet Farms requested specifications, which involve some nice upgrades and for $720 on sale - hard to beat that price with a stick!! (plus it comes with a very nice soft sided case and six (6) 30 round mags) The only complaint on the Elite model I have is that heavy hand guard/forearm with 4 picatinny rails, I have no need for the side and bottom rails and the Samson Evolution Series 9-EX would have been just perfect for my tastes and would have reduced the price by 50 to 75 dollars.

[earplug]

Build one. Then you can decide what barrel length, weight, muzzle device, hand guard, butt Stock to use for your situation. I suggest Chrome lined for ease of cleaning and less throat erosion. I'm a fan of nice reliable triggers, that don't rely on set screws. A Geissele trigger is hard to beat.
The cost of getting nice stuff is cheap when you figure how long your satisfaction lasts. Criterium 20", Light, Mikulek, JP, MAG-PUL fixed

[Tom W.]

I ain't gonna build one. I want something to shoot cans and such, with sights already on it, ready to go after the new rifle cleaning session. I'm 63, have a bad heart and a cancer survivor ( so far, anyway) and happy to see the next morning... I don't need a $900 rifle.

[garym1a2]

Try S&W M&P sport. You can get them for about $550. They are good guns, mine is.
I ain't gonna build one. I want something to shoot cans and such, with sights already on it, ready to go after the new rifle cleaning session. I'm 63, have a bad heart and a cancer survivor ( so far, anyway) and happy to see the next morning... I don't need a $900 rifle.

[DerekP Houston]

I ain't gonna build one. I want something to shoot cans and such, with sights already on it, ready to go after the new rifle cleaning session. I'm 63, have a bad heart and a cancer survivor ( so far, anyway) and happy to see the next morning... I don't need a $900 rifle.

I'd pick anything off the rack that has what you want then. S&W M&P is a good call, DPMS, bushmaster, Del-ton, to me...they are all about the same. I don't know if the current environment will support the 'cheap' price for long though. Depending on what is said over the airwaves they may double in value or plummet again. I just checked buds and they are running around 550 at the cheapest with no sights (don't forget to add shipping/tax/ffl transfer fee) up to whatever you want to spend.

IIRC I dropped some flip up sights from magpul on mine from the gun shop I used for transfer, between that and magazines I spent ~100 more on the gun than stock from factory.

There *IS* one in your range, just depends on the guy at the counter showing you the right product. I don't buy the hype that I needed to spend 1k+ for a decent AR unless you are counting panic pricing.

I believe the under 900 limits you to DI not a gas piston, wasn't a deal breaker in my case.

[CLAYPOOL]

I'm looking at the Ruger. I am wondering if it is poly or metal bottom. I have a Colt H-b target from the Bill Clinton coming into office days all ready. it shoots as good as I can. just wanting to add to the fleet so to speak.

[Combat Diver]

Ruger AR/SR 556 guns all have aluminum lowers which is the standard.


CD

[aap2]

I ain't gonna build one. I want something to shoot cans and such, with sights already on it, ready to go after the new rifle cleaning session. I'm 63, have a bad heart and a cancer survivor ( so far, anyway) and happy to see the next morning... I don't need a $900 rifle.
Go out and buy one with the sights that you want at the price that you want to pay (all of the entry level bushmasters,dpms,s&w etc shoot great). Don't wait too long to buy one; as the election approaches things will get weird for the AR buyer. Get one and have fun.

[Texas by God]

Sur-shot-I thought I was the only one who ran over guns with farm equipment!! Seriously though an inch either way ANY gun would be destroyed. You were lucky you weren't injured. Thank God you weren't! Tom- got one yet??? Best, Thomas.

[Tom W.]

Not yet. I saw some that have a .223 Wylde chamber. You KNOW I had to explore that option.it didn't seem to add at the price .

[dragon813gt]

I ain't gonna build one. I want something to shoot cans and such, with sights already on it, ready to go after the new rifle cleaning session. I'm 63, have a bad heart and a cancer survivor ( so far, anyway) and happy to see the next morning... I don't need a $900 rifle.

Try and find a DelTon. You were able to pick them up for $500 a few months back. Sights are shooters preference so I would plan on picking up a set to your liking.

[imashooter2]

I ain't gonna build one. I want something to shoot cans and such, with sights already on it, ready to go after the new rifle cleaning session. I'm 63, have a bad heart and a cancer survivor ( so far, anyway) and happy to see the next morning... I don't need a $900 rifle.


You might not need it, but you sure as heck deserve it. Will an extra $400 make all that much difference in your estate?

[root]

Welcome to he survivors club Tony W.
My current 2nd wife wife is a member of that club. 6 years now.

My 1st wife is not.

Get what you want/can afford shoot the snot out of it and enjoy it.

I've been looking at the 223 wylde also. Just missed a 7 inch barrel on GB for 60 bux I only bid 44 on it.
one of my goals is to build a Kitty Kat upper for my SBR just for the noise and fireball.
One day, One day.........

Rich

[Combat Diver]

I've got 3 barrels chambered for the .223 Wylde, but have only mounted one of the barrels so far. All 3 are Green Mountain barrels, 18" stainless steel, bare muzzles each has a different twist. One mounted is on my wifes rifle and that has a 1:14 twist. Others are 1:6 and 1:5, to play with heavy weight bullets at long range. Haven't been home to test the theory long enough yet.


CD

[bruce drake]

I've got 3 barrels chambered for the .223 Wylde, but have only mounted one of the barrels so far. All 3 are Green Mountain barrels, 18" stainless steel, bare muzzles each has a different twist. One mounted is on my wifes rifle and that has a 1:14 twist. Others are 1:6 and 1:5, to play with heavy weight bullets at long range. Haven't been home to test the theory long enough yet.


CD

Who made your tight twist 223 barrels? Tightest I've seen in use have been 6.5 Krieger barrels for using 77-90 grain bullets in NRA Long Range rifle matches.

[Rick Hodges]

Who made your tight twist 223 barrels? Tightest I've seen in use have been 6.5 Krieger barrels for using 77-90 grain bullets in NRA Long Range rifle matches.

Green Mountain has been advertising 1-5 twist for some time now. The few reports I have read on them say they show little difference from 1-7 with any bullets available now. Not sure I would want to play with 100 grainers in a 5.56 anyway.

[bruce drake]

Green Mountain has been advertising 1-5 twist for some time now. The few reports I have read on them say they show little difference from 1-7 with any bullets available now. Not sure I would want to play with 100 grainers in a 5.56 anyway.

the 90 grain bullets from Sierra are LONG. I can just imagine how deep they'd be seated if someone had to try to cram them in to fit a AR15 magazine.
A 100gr Lead bullet in .225 would be over an inch in length itself.

[dkf]

the 90 grain bullets from Sierra are LONG. I can just imagine how deep they'd be seated if someone had to try to cram them in to fit a AR15 magazine.
A 100gr Lead bullet in .225 would be over an inch in length itself.

Outlaw State Bullets makes a .224" 100gr bullet that can be seated to mag length. I don't see how you'll get a 90gr Sierra at mag length and have any neck tension with the bullet.

[Combat Diver]

Who made your tight twist 223 barrels? Tightest I've seen in use have been 6.5 Krieger barrels for using 77-90 grain bullets in NRA Long Range rifle matches.

Green Mountain made the 1:14, 1:6 and 1:5 bbls, just haven't had the time to test the faster twists yet.


CD

[bruce drake]

Outlaw State Bullets makes a .224" 100gr bullet that can be seated to mag length. I don't see how you'll get a 90gr Sierra at mag length and have any neck tension with the bullet.

I've never loaded them to mag length for that specific reason! those are single load cartridges for any use in an AR15 in my opinion.

[Texas by God]

Tom W- your thread done got hijacked! Did you get an AR? If so what brand? Best, Thomas.

[Tom W.]

Not yet. But I am going to get one by Bear Creek probably through Classic Firearms. It has an A3 detachable handle, A2 sights, two mags and a hard case. Also has the .223 Wylde chambering. As soon as the guy at work gets off of his wallet and buys my .45...........

[daniel lawecki]

Me barrel 20" or longer trigger timney 3lbs sights up to you. Mine Burris BDC scope why 60 years young. Chamber a 5.56 wylde chrome lined barrel twist that's your call me I like 55 grain bullets. Although some people love 62 grain up to 68 grain and maybe 70 grain bullets yardage me 200 yards but mostly 100 yards. Make your choice don't low buck you will be sorry.

[Texas by God]

Sounds like a good one Tom W. Enjoy the dark side!